The attendance at WFC and an update from a STH focus group

[Poulin20]

The team is finally playing well!  Yea!!  But has anyone noticed watching on TV that a lot of people are coming dressed as grey seats to the Flyers games?  It first struck me at some of the games I have attended and then I noticed more and more people writing about it.  Anthony  SanFilippo had a nice piece about it on Crossing Broad which makes for interesting reading.

 

https://www.crossingbroad.com/2019/12/if-the-flyers-win-five-games-in-a-row-and-no-one-is-there-to-see-it-did-it-really-happen.html

 

In addition I wanted to share a few points from a recent Season Ticket holder focus group that I attended a couple of weekends ago....

 

They invited a group of 30 of us to come down early before the Flames game a couple of weekends ago to speak with the assitant GM Brent Flahr and Chief Business Officer Mike Shane.

 

Surprisingly there were almost no questions for Flahr about players but when it came to the business side, the pitchforks and torches were out in a major way!  People came armed with 3 page lists of things they were pissed about.  I'll get to those points in a minute.  Before I do I wanted to give you some background on Mike Shane (37 years old).  Like the president of Business operations Valerie Camillo he comes from the Washington Nationals.  He starting out trying to pander to us telling us that he joined the team in April and how the city and his neighbors have embraced him and in 7 short months he now fully gets Philly and our passion and that we are 1000X more knowledgeable than the rubes down in DC.  He said he loves the Flyers "culture" and the feeling of "family" that comes with this organization and basically acted as if he has been there his whole life.  He said he has plans to do these focus groups on a regular basis.   It was very rah rah rah go team, yea Fletcher, yea AV until the dialogue started...

 

Firstly there was a complaint about the vast turnover of season ticket holder reps and how nobody contacted us to tell us that there was a change and how nobody reached out to us early in the season.  (I didn't personally have this issue with my rep but the person who coordinates the high 5 program where my kids get to go on the ice during the national anthem left and nobody told me and as of now they wont be enjoying that benefit so I could relate.  Shane apologized and said that they have to be better with the communication (duh!).  Then the fireworks really started when people began questioning the ticket pricing scheme and how they decided to announce that they were hiking prices on us a week before we were supposed to renew.  Shane said again, yeah we needed to do a better job with that communication thing again but our prices are definitely market value and right in the meaty part of the league curve.  That sent people off the rails as they said they did their own research and that is simply not true and we are getting majorly gouged.  One guy went as far as to stand up and say "Thats F*****g B******t! where are you getting these numbers and metrics? We want to see them".  Shane then began tap dancing on that and we never got a clear answer.  There was then a cacophony of voices about how they were so wrong on price point and that we as STH are taking in the shorts on trying to resell our tickets especially with Stubhub in the mix.  People complained that because of the massive markdowns on stubhub we the STHs were looking like money grubbers to the public because we just wanted to get face value back.  Shane said that was because last year the Flyers used to flood the market with unsold tickets and brokers would put them on stubhub for as low as $5.  He said they are not doing that anymore and that is why there are so many empty seats.  There was also the issue of the variable pricing scheme where they value each game differently and we don't know what the value of our tickets are (it is not printed on our tickets...you have to find this obscure chart that they have) making it hard to value in a sale.  This scheme was also announced 1 week before we had to decide whether or not to renew, along with the switch to all electronic tickets.  (That part doesn't bother me but for a lot it was a big issue).  I could go on and on with the pricing and believe me they did and F bombs flew in that room over it but there were other things as well....

 

The in game (bass heavy) experience was also criticized heavily.  Many said that since Ed Snider died it seems that the team culture died with him.  One guy put it this way "Comcast doesn't give 2 s**ts about us".  Shane vehemently denied that and said its not that they don't care, it is just they don't understand all of the issues and how to deal with them (very comforting to know that).   Everyone told him loud and clear that we don't want an "experience" we want to see good hockey.  We feel like you are trying to distract us with the lights and the loud music and the renovations and Gritty.  Some even called for the axing of Gritty and accused them of trying to make him the face of the franchise.  Shane shot back "That will never happen, not on my watch..Gritty will never be the face of the franchise!" Several people then chimed in that they have been to other arenas and that that fans and staff at those places were so much nicer than anyone in Philly and that the arenas and in game experience there seem so much more warm and welcoming.  Curiously they noted that fans of other teams bought them beers while our fans did the a*****e chant to everyone.  (I guess I have been going to the wrong places as I have mostly been abused at away games just for wearing my colors).  Others said that they are trying to pander to low attention span millennials.  Shane said that "we need the millenials to grow the game".  Our group said yeah but they don't have any money to spend on the game so it should be more about pleasing us, those who are established customers with the money and the dedication who feel like you have abandoned us.    Then I heard multiple 40 and 50 year STHs say this was their last year and that we have had it!  One lady ended her I'm leaving rant by saying "oh and by the way, the Kate Smith thing is complete Bull****!".  The topic was then supposed to shift to Kate but it got hijacked buy more price hike complaints.  Shane would not apologize for the price hikes and said we will try and make it up to you by adding value to STH packages for the future (more special privileges and giveaways).  Then in the midst of all of this we got kicked out of the room (more bad planning on their part).  Shane admitted to us that the experience had been really rough and that he loved it and hated it at the same time.  

 

I wasn't going to let him get off that easily however, fueled by the free early morning Yuenglings and champagne they had for us I made a B-line over to Shane and got in his face about Kate Smith.  He started out by saying that he was only here a week when it happened but that it had to happen because we cannot allow anyone to be marginalized.  I congratulated them  to him on marginalizing a chunk of their most loyal customers.  I told him that he talked all about culture and family but that went out the window with the decision and the way they handled it.  He told me she is never coming back and that they will play the song with just Lauren Hart when the time is right.  I told him "good luck with that" and that they were so tone deaf if they attempted to do that without Kate.  After pressing him very hard I got him to fully admit that they handled the entire situation wrong and that the team is aware that she was actually an advocate for people of color and spoke out against racism in her entire body of work.  I told him that it was fine to acknowledge that to me in private but if they wanted to start a healing process with the fans that they need to do it publicly and admit they were wrong and they handled it terribly.  I said "I know you cant bring her back at the moment but you need to apologize publicly for your character assassination of a woman who is not even here to defend herself and to her family, to whom you have marginalized and caused much pain".  I told him that their unapologetic smear of an innocent woman is where my rage lies more than the loss of the tradition itself (which also angers me but not to the same extent).  I said too "I know what you are doing, you guys are too smug and proud to admit your mistake and you are just hoping we all forget about it".  At that point he thanked me for explaining it that way and that he will take this to their management and I will hear back from him and we can dialogue via e-mail.  So far its been over 2 weeks without an e-mail. (Shocker right?)

 

So between my anecdotal experience at the focus group and the above article, I have to say that there is definitely a big disconnect between the team and the people in charge at the moment.  I think that this stems from the loss off Ed Snider and the influx of interlopers from the Nationals who think they know us but really don't and are coming off as completely tone deaf.  They are going to lose a bunch of loyal customers in the next few years.  It will take some wining to bring in new customers. 

 

 

[fan4ever]

@Poulin20

 

Thanks for this great write-up from your interaction...

 

And good for you on the Kate Smith debacle!!!!

 

 

[Podein25]

1 hour ago, Poulin20 said:

right in the meaty part of the league curve

 

That's what she said.

[Poulin20]

2 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

That's what she said.

Bill Clinton is that you? 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Poulin20

[Podein25]

2 minutes ago, Poulin20 said:

Bill Clinton is that you? 

 

Lol, it's not, but I too "did not have sexual relations with that woman. " 

 

Narrator: that's true, it was a sheep.

[flyercanuck]

@Poulin20

 

 First of all, I really appreciate your posts from the STH meetings (well...ALL your posts but especially these ones). 

 

 I'm also glad to hear someone else complain about the bs gimmickry that sports has gone to, to "entertain" the fan base.  I want to be entertained by the sport, not lights and sh!tty music.

 

 I won't miss the playing of God Bless America by Kate, but the way they did her was wrong. Maybe if they'd only have played it during important playoff games like they did her actual performances I wouldn't have grown to despise it.

 

 Anyway, thank you sir for taking the time to write this out for us, and also to speak to one of the lemmings running the franchise now.

[Podein25]

Turns out all you have to do to get a popular post around here is attend a STH meeting, bitch at the ownership for an hour, then write it up. Anybody can do that!

[mojo1917]

@Poulin20

Thanks for the write up and sharing your experience.

 

That Comcast is treating it's sports teams as  interchangeable regions in its "business division" explains a lot.

"Well it worked for the Nationals so it will work in Phila" is corporate douchebaggery at it's finest.

There are ways to leverage synergies but  bringing people from a different sport in a very different market to enhance the experience is lazy thought leadership. yes I speak corporate douchebag.

 

I hope someone can figure it out, by and large I think if the team plays well, and fans feel like on most nights the boys can win then a lot of this will take care of itself or fall by the way side. 

The issue will be the ticket pricing, right now they are pricing me out of the live game experience and I'm a guy they want at the rink, I yell and cheer, flip off refs, and opposing players.

I would buy another team's fan a beer, if it wasn't $13 and they weren't rooting for the Islanders, Pens, Rangers, Devils, Bruins, Capitals... okay I'd buy a beer for Predators or Jets fan- maybe.

Comes down to $ and whether catering to wealthy folks makes more sense than making the experience accessible for middle income folks, I think there's more middle income folks...but then I'm not a corporate douche bag anymore. 

 

 

[Howie58]

Greetings:

 

Take a gander at this bar chart:

 

http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph.php?tmi=7439

 

The management made a booboo by raising tickets significantly after a lousy season.  Now they offer $25 SRO for the youngsters who don't have a pot to pee in.  This drop off is for real.  Earnings are going nowhere for most Americans.  I agree with some commentators that with hockey, you either buy a good ticket or don't go--following a puck from nosebleed makes no sense.  Personally, I find the up-and-down during first period to be very disturbing at Panthers' games, and it is one of the reasons I don't go.  All in, $149 for NHL Center Ice is a true bargain from my vantage.  Let me enjoy my own food and wine, stop worrying about getting stepped on...$20+ parking, etc.  

 

Peace,

 

Howie 

[elmatus]

4 hours ago, Howie58 said:

Greetings:

 

Take a gander at this bar chart:

 

http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph.php?tmi=7439

 

The management made a booboo by raising tickets significantly after a lousy season.  Now they offer $25 SRO for the youngsters who don't have a pot to pee in.  This drop off is for real.  Earnings are going nowhere for most Americans.  I agree with some commentators that with hockey, you either buy a good ticket or don't go--following a puck from nosebleed makes no sense.  Personally, I find the up-and-down during first period to be very disturbing at Panthers' games, and it is one of the reasons I don't go.  All in, $149 for NHL Center Ice is a true bargain from my vantage.  Let me enjoy my own food and wine, stop worrying about getting stepped on...$20+ parking, etc.  

 

Peace,

 

Howie 

 

That chart is definitely disturbing. I wonder if the increased costs for everything still allow them to come ahead financially in the end though (i.e. make more profit). It may be one of those things that makes sense on the business end in the aggregate but really sucks for individual consumers. 

Edited December 7, 2019 by elmatus

[Howie58]

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

 

That chart is definitely disturbing. I wonder if the increased costs for everything still allow them to come ahead financially in the end though (i.e. make more profit). It may be one of those things that makes sense on the business end in the aggregate but really sucks for individual consumers. 

I have to wonder if they see TV revenue or Europe...can't figure it out.  Comcast has a lot invested in the O and B.  They can't be happy with that chart.

[Cheesesteak]

On 12/5/2019 at 4:42 PM, flyercanuck said:

@Poulin20

 

 

 

 I'm also glad to hear someone else complain about the bs gimmickry that sports has gone to, to "entertain" the fan base.  I want to be entertained by the sport, not lights and sh!tty music.

 

 

It seems like this is happening in most places...I've been calling it "Manufactured Hype"......the excitement should be the game!

[OccamsRazor]

@Poulin20

 

Thanks for taking the time to inform us.

 

Good read.

[Poulin20]

10 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

@Poulin20

 

Thanks for taking the time to inform us.

 

Good read.

Thanks OR and everyone for your kind words.  I always enjoy getting a little peek behind the orange curtain to see what is going on (Especially since I pay top dollar to this organization for tickets) and share with those who are unable to have the same live experience.  This may or may not be my final report to everyone as I myself am seriously on the fence about renewing for next year.

 

My decision will come down to team play and whether or not the address the concerns we raised on that day.  As of now the team play is heading in the right direction but it will need to continue and be consistent.  The management is another story.

 

We had this meeting a month ago and I still have heard bupkis from Mike Shane.  When Shawn Tilger from the business side would address us he would give us his business card and ask us to email whenever we wanted anything.  He was dead serious and the times I reached out he came back with whatever I asked.  I was stunned at such amazing service.  The staff of the Nationals?  Not so much...

Edited December 13, 2019 by Poulin20

[Podein25]

20 minutes ago, Poulin20 said:

 The management is another story.

 

We had this meeting a month ago and I still have heard bupkis from Mike Shane.  When Shawn Tilger from the business side would address us he would give us his business card and ask us to email whenever we wanted anything.  He was dead serious and the times I reached out he came back with whatever I asked.  I was stunned at such amazing service.  The staff of the Nationals?  Not so much...

 

What's so appalling is that responding to people, communicating is half the battle and it takes such little effort. If they were smart they would have reached out by now with an apology for being such dickheads and a vague promise to try to do better in the future.

 

All the research overwhelmingly shows that such a simple apology not only gets people back, but achieves customer loyalty levels that surpass previous levels (i.e., before you pissed people off).  This is like customer service 101. That they can't do this means, in effect, that they are calling you and all the fans a buncha c*nts

 

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Podein25