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Can we buyout a stiff and sign an UFA ?

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55 minutes ago, JR Ewing said:

What would help the Flyers is that their head of scouting doesn't live in Mexico

Holy hell. Is that true? 

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4 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Holy hell. Is that true? 


It's absolutely true. Barry Fraser was the Oilers head scout from 1979 to 2000, but moved to Mexico in 1985. Once he did that, the quality of Oilers picks fell completely off the table, and they paid dearly for many years.


Barry Fraser's picks while living in Edmonton 1979-1985)

'79: Lowe, Messier, Anderson

'80: Coffey, Kurri, Walt Puddubny, Moog

'81: Fuhr, Steve Smith, Marc Habscheid,

'82: none

'83: Beukeboom, Tikkanen

'84: Todd Ewen


Barry Fraser's notable picks while living in Mexico, 1985 - 2000

'85: Buchberger

'86: none

'87: Geoff Smith, Shaun Van Allen

'88: Shjon Podein

'89: Josef Beranek

'90: not one draft pick played a single NHL game in his career. Let that one soak in.

'91: Martin Rucinsky

'92: Kirk Maltby (traded early in his career)

'93: Jason Arnott, Miroslav Satan (who was dealt for nothing 35 goals into a 360 goal career).

'94: Ryan Smyth (and that was after wasting the 4th overall on Jason Bonsignore, who didn't even want to play hockey).

'95: Georges Laraque

'96: Tom Poti

'97: Jason Chimera

'98: Shawn Horcoff

'99: none

'00: none


It's not every scout that picks 7 future Hall of Famers in his first three drafts, but it wasn't meant to last. In those first three drafts, the Oilers selected players that would go on to dress for 10,199 games. After Fraser moved to the hockey hotbed of Cabo San Lucas, he selected that many players in his 10 drafts. In the next 15 years, I count three impact players in total, even though the Oilers spent many seasons picking in the top 5 or 6.


There were years where members of the scouting staff admitted that they hadn't watched even a single game of players that Fraser told them to pick. His first three drafts were as good (and possibly better) than any three that a scouting department has ever had, but the rest of his career was a disaster. Many years, the player with the most NHL games was 40-50.


Why did this go on for so long? Why was mediocrity and failure accepted for such a prolonged period of time?


Because Oilers.


  • Uggh... 1

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Best way to resolve the JVR situation is to give up a 3rd or 4th round pick to entice someone to take the cap hit. Sounds gross, but that is the easiest way out. Either that or a trade for a middling prospect that has little hope of cracking the NHL.

  That does not really give a lot of incentive to take on a guy or his cap hit, with no heart and no real love for the game. I would think a team like Arizona would be looking for a top 6 winger...its clear a mid 30's Kessel is only going to regress from this point on. 

Edited by jammer2

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18 hours ago, Mad Dog said:


If this was just the numbers, I would've gladly looked the other way.  But something about the way he is playing this year is just off.  I can't put my finger on it, but he is just not himself this year.  In the previous years when he was not scoring, he was always hustling (he was one guy I didn't have to worry about playing hard), creating and making plays... And his passing has always been accurate.  This year, I don't see much of that at all.  And what bothers me the most, he seems to be taking shifts off and avoiding contact.  Not always.  Not even in every game.  But enough to make me wonder that there may be something going on with him that we don't know.


What's going on with him is that he has a new coach who has him playing differently.  

He's beginning plays and often controlling zone entries while the other guys get into position.  Then two or three passes later there's an opportunity.  


He's playing more of a point guard role and I don't see it as being a problem.  

He's had a quiet stretch, but before that he had 8 points in 10 games (half of which the team got beat soundly so you know he was trying when it was 'really' needed).


Now, Yes.  In Situations like the Tampa game... it would be nice if he figures out how to shake it off and make a goal happen.

That's kinda what you need to see happen from your stars/captains. But the fact that didn't happen in January annoys me mildly, but I don't see it as a grand scheme of things problem.  Coots couldn't do it either, and lately Coots is the guy who can step up and just make poop happen out of thin air.  it was a tight game against the hottest team over a recent stretch and one would hope in a playoff situation, that "get 'er done" mentality comes through a bit more.  But right now, I think it's usually more important to figure out what can be done on a more systematic level to compete more consistently.  


This team has a much larger fundamental problem in that it's bottom six really can't be trusted.  A lot of that has to do with Patrick and Lindblom being out, but the long and short of it really seems to be that when AV can control who the Bottom six are out there against (i.e. put them out against other bottom 6ers), it doesn't result in that many terrible goals against.  


But when the other team gets the chance to put out who they want against the bottom 6, it can get ugly fast.  


What's worse, the other teams know it now.  


And I'm not sure how it gets better because they've tried everyone even remotely possible for these roles and Fletcher spent right up against the cap, so they can't afford to bring anyone in to help.


I think it would help win a few games here and there if Therrien pulled his head out of the sand, put G on the LW side board and get the PP going, but I think the larger fundamental problem is that the bottom six can't hold their own against other teams top 6.





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  • Most Liked Posts in This Topic

    • 2
      One in which they won a Cup.    They've been almost consistently horrible since, with the exception of 2006.   But is that the direct result of the Gretsky trade, or is that just horrific ownership and management?  Is it just that the 80s Oilers were better players than executives?
    • 2
      Also... He's got 18 goals and 31 points and a plus 7.   It's not like he's producing horrible numbers!     Yzerman scored less when the Redwings finally started winning cups.     And you're definitely right about the "puck luck"  I think when it's this prolonged, it's more than luck, but it's not like he's slacking off out there.  
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      Lots of good takes in this discussion. For me, trading G sends the wrong message to this group of players. I think dealing the captain, who is a "face of the franchise" player makes all other players question their future   You dont need to move him. He is still a dominant face off man, plays good two way hockey, and has great skill. Im sure hes lost a step, but what we are seeing is a player in declune more because of whats around him, and less because he has lost it 
    • 1
      Used to be The cost is either 1/3 or 2/3 of the remaining salary, averaged out over twice as many years that were left on the contract. This is determined by the age of the player at the time of the buyout - if they are under 26, they get 1/3, if they are 26 or older they get 2/3.   Source: Hidden Content Give reaction or reply to this topic to see the hidden content.   to me this always seems like a long time to pay
    • 1
      Fun facts: JVR is tied for third on the team in goals with Couturier, 1 goal behind Giroux and Hayes, two behind team leader Konecny. Voracek is third on the team in points.   It's more a reflection on the team as a whole not scoring than specific individuals.   Here's the buyout on JVR: SEASON INITIAL BASE SALARY INITIAL CAP HIT SIGNING BONUS BUYOUT COST POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS SAVINGS
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      Well... Decent with another Cup win thrown in there.      But yeah, they had a long period of sucking other than the late 90s, where they were competitive. What would help the Flyers is that their head of scouting doesn't live in Mexico, and (presumably) actually watches hockey games.   Also good: the Flyers scout the World Juniors. Edmonton didn't do that until 2007.  

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