We really need some help on offense.

[RonJeremy]

We gotta find some scoring somehow, we have some skilled young guys in our system that should eventually become good scorers , but in the meantime  we have to face the facts the JVR, G and Jakes offense output will continue to diminish. Our defense is pretty good even without Ghost but our offense is pathetic. 

 

So is there a scorer on the trading block that we can get for Ghost?  I like Max Domi for Ghost, Domi adds offense and toughness two things we severely lack.

Is there a skilled goal scorer available in the draft where we can trade up, maybe hold on to Ghost  and use him in a package to move up.

Is there an UFA goal scorer we can sign, who wont turn into JVR and Jake when he hits 30?

There is no way we can go into next season with the same underachieving veterans. In tough games you expect the kids to get shutdown,  but our vets are not clutch at all except for Hayes.

 

 

[elmatus]

13 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

We gotta find some scoring somehow, we have some skilled young guys in our system that should eventually become good scorers , but in the meantime  we have to face the facts the JVR, G and Jakes offense output will continue to diminish. Our defense is pretty good even without Ghost but our offense is pathetic. 

 

So is there a scorer on the trading block that we can get for Ghost?  I like Max Domi for Ghost, Domi adds offense and toughness two things we severely lack.

Is there a skilled goal scorer available in the draft where we can trade up, maybe hold on to Ghost  and use him in a package to move up.

Is there an UFA goal scorer we can sign, who wont turn into JVR and Jake when he hits 30?

There is no way we can go into next season with the same underachieving veterans. In tough games you expect the kids to get shutdown,  but our vets are not clutch at all except for Hayes.

 

 

 

I agree with a lot of this. Ghost should have been traded at least last season of course, but he wasn't. What we might be able to get for the guy now is something fairly questionable unfortunately.

 

First thing of note is that Ghost is expected to contribute scoring more than anything, and he just hasn't done that consistently at all throughout his career. Sure, he's had two good seasons, but then he's had two poor ones, and he's on track for his lowest scoring total to date in 19-20 (~24-25pts). The other reason for his being on any NHL team is to be a PP quarterback. He's been supplanted in that role this season by a much better dman in Provo, and I would argue Niskanen as well. 

 

So he's not doing his job. Period. Not only that, but this season isn't some sort of anomaly. He wasn't good last season either. What can we get for a guy like Ghost in a trade? Honestly, probably a lot less than what we'd want. I'm not even convinced Seattle would take him at this point. Hell, even Voracek, universally panned though he so frequently is, remains significantly more valuable to a team than Ghost at this point.

 

To your second point about Domi: I like Domi, but Ghost is definitely not going to cut it. Not only is he on pace for 65-70pts this season, he got 72 last season as well. If anything, he's getting better as he enters his prime years. Getting a guy like that at all would be tough as hell. So not only is Ghost not enough, we may not like what it would take to get him at all.

 

I should add also that Domi really isn't all that tough in the sense you might think. He's smallish, and fast, and skilled, and nothing at all like his dad. I know you're a fan of the Tkachuk types. He's not really that kind of guy.

Edited January 14, 2020 by elmatus

[CoachX]

I honestly believe Ghost needs a change of scenery. It looks like he has lost his confidence. Instead of being THE guy on defense, he's just A guy. I believe he can be packaged on what his potential is, not what the results are over the last two seasons.

 

 

[elmatus]

25 minutes ago, CoachX said:

I honestly believe Ghost needs a change of scenery. It looks like he has lost his confidence. Instead of being THE guy on defense, he's just A guy. I believe he can be packaged on what his potential is, not what the results are over the last two seasons.

 

 

 I think you're probably right about that, but I don't think we'll be getting a Max Domi out of that kind of trade. At least not unless we're tossing something else that is shinier than Ghost along with him, which frankly we don't have much of right now.

[CoachX]

Does Ghosts value go up at the deadline with teams looking for that one piece?

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, CoachX said:

I believe he can be packaged on what his potential is, not what the results are over the last two seasons.

 

I would love to bundle him and JVR together to some other team.

[RonJeremy]

5 hours ago, elmatus said:

 

I agree with a lot of this. Ghost should have been traded at least last season of course, but he wasn't. What we might be able to get for the guy now is something fairly questionable unfortunately.

 

First thing of note is that Ghost is expected to contribute scoring more than anything, and he just hasn't done that consistently at all throughout his career. Sure, he's had two good seasons, but then he's had two poor ones, and he's on track for his lowest scoring total to date in 19-20 (~24-25pts). The other reason for his being on any NHL team is to be a PP quarterback. He's been supplanted in that role this season by a much better dman in Provo, and I would argue Niskanen as well. 

 

So he's not doing his job. Period. Not only that, but this season isn't some sort of anomaly. He wasn't good last season either. 

 

I should add also that Domi really isn't all that tough in the sense you might think. He's smallish, and fast, and skilled, and nothing at all like his dad. I know you're a fan of the Tkachuk types. He's not really that kind of guy.

I know Max is not that big and hes not as tough as his dad ,but for his size he is pretty tough and can play a physical game and I have seen him fight some bigger guys and beat them. He will definitely stand up for his teammates . Your right about Ghost and his diminishing value. I know Montreal is desperate for a defenseman , I just wonder , who we can package with Ghost to get Domi. O' Brian, Vorobyev , Rubstov as a last resort. Ghost and JVR works for me.

[OccamsRazor]

What the Flyers need is NIGHTLY help from their big guns. The ones who concern me the most is Jake and JVR that is well documented by many here including me.

 

Jake has come alive in recent weeks. Just since turning 2020 he has 6 points in 7 games. Very well they will need more of that to get to where they want to go. It doesn't have to be in the form of the game winner on a nightly basis (but if he wants to provide more of those i promise you you won't find one Flyer fan here who would object to that) but it needs to be in some form of helping put pucks in the net.

 

In these cases or games very assist is as crucial as every goal scored the need wins.

 

So this brings me back to the biggest horse beat this season i think and it is JVR and hi finding a way to help score goals.

 

And last he did on the TK goal...very nice play. The problem??? They need more of that.

 

Since it has turned 2020 (i think that is far enough to go back and look at now - it's recent) He has two assist in the last 7 games of 2020 and they came in the just the last two games.

 

The really downside of his game that is killing the play is his play away from the puck and help getting the puck back.

 

In just these 7 games this is his nightly stat line he is -6 still....that has to change if they are to get to the playoffs.

[CoachX]

I'm going to ignore JVR, like he ignores the puck

 

Back to Jake.... I didn't realize the point output recently. Thats nice. What I have noticed is his strong play on the puck, and him keeping offensive pressure. The Blues had one helluva time trying to get the puck from him

[King Knut]

On 1/13/2020 at 7:51 PM, RonJeremy said:

We gotta find some scoring somehow, we have some skilled young guys in our system that should eventually become good scorers , but in the meantime  we have to face the facts the JVR, G and Jakes offense output will continue to diminish. Our defense is pretty good even without Ghost but our offense is pathetic. 

 

So is there a scorer on the trading block that we can get for Ghost?  I like Max Domi for Ghost, Domi adds offense and toughness two things we severely lack.

Is there a skilled goal scorer available in the draft where we can trade up, maybe hold on to Ghost  and use him in a package to move up.

Is there an UFA goal scorer we can sign, who wont turn into JVR and Jake when he hits 30?

There is no way we can go into next season with the same underachieving veterans. In tough games you expect the kids to get shutdown,  but our vets are not clutch at all except for Hayes.

 

 

 

If any NHL team has to regularly score 5 goals to win games, they’re just not going to win many games.  

 

When the Flyers give up a bunch of goals, and they don’t score a bunch more, the problem isn’t the bunch more they couldn’t get.  

 

So I’m sorry, but offense just isn’t the problem.  The injuries and illnesses to Nolan and Oskar have really screwed with the bottom six.  When the bottom six get exploited, the Flyers lose.  

 

What was was meant to be our 4th line or our 13th man is regularly filling in on the third.  Now with Raffl out again, they’re going to be even more exploitable once again. 

 

I really have trouble with how Misha and Ruby haven’t progressed.  Bunny, Andreoff, NAK are trying but they’re exploitable.  They’re just not solid bottom Sixers. 

 

Myers and Sanheim are also both still working out their own end kinks and are exploitable at times too.  

 

They didnt score against Tampa, but they only gave up 1 goal themselves and it was a very tight game against a great and hot team.  Other than that, their recent losses have been in games where they gave up 4,5 or 6 goals each time.  

 

Doesn't matter what your offense looks like. If you need to outscore that, you’re not winning a ton of games.  

 

They need to figure out how to make the bottom six a safer option for the stretches of the game where they need them.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Podein25]

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

When the bottom six get exploited,

 

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

even more exploitable once again.

 

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

are exploitable at times too

 

I'm sensing a theme.
 

And not to get too nitpicky, but I think the term you are really looking for is "exposed" (although I can see how both words kinda fit).

 

Anyway, carry on. Imma gonna go listen to The Exploited

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, Podein25 said:

 

 

 

I'm sensing a theme.
 

And not to get too nitpicky, but I think the term you are really looking for is "exposed" (although I can see how both words kinda fit).

 

Anyway, carry on. Imma gonna go listen to The Exploited

 

Repetition is a rhetorical technique.  

 

I would still prefer exploited to exposed.   I believe they’ve been exposed, which is what enables teams (mostly on the road) to exploit the weakness. 

[Podein25]

30 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Repetition is a rhetorical technique.

 

Lol, it is indeed. I should know. 

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

 

 

 

I would still prefer exploited to exposed. 

 

 I have to be honest...I've never heard of The Exposed. 

 

[ruxpin]

3 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

Repetition is a rhetorical technique.  

 

I would still prefer exploited to exposed.   I believe they’ve been exposed, which is what enables teams (mostly on the road) to exploit the weakness. 

I prefer "exploitable" the way you're framing it, myself. 

 

Exposed works too but slightly different. 

 

Anyway, very fair argument regarding the bottom six. Frankly, it's what you're going to get given the experience level and injuries.  

 

It's just going to be uneven and inconsistent with this many kids compounded by the injuries.   Anyone expecting much more than fighting for lower end playoff seed coming into the season was deluding themselves. 

 

It's a better team than we've been and will only get better as injuries heal (hopefully) and people continue to grow. 

 

The constant "sky is falling" hysterics is really becoming tiring (that's MY problem. People are welcome to their opinions). 

Edited January 20, 2020 by ruxpin

[ruxpin]

2 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

Lol, it is indeed. I should know. 

Baaaa

 

The last three As are rhetorical. 

[Podein25]

6 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I prefer "exploitable"

 

You would you arse.

[RonJeremy]

6 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

If any NHL team has to regularly score 5 goals to win games, they’re just not going to win many games.  

 

When the Flyers give up a bunch of goals, and they don’t score a bunch more, the problem isn’t the bunch more they couldn’t get.  

 

So I’m sorry, but offense just isn’t the problem.  The injuries and illnesses to Nolan and Oskar have really screwed with the bottom six.  When the bottom six get exploited, the Flyers lose.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don’t see how you can say offense isn’t a problem. I agree that our bottom 6 leave us vulnerable, but we also have players in our top 6 who wait until January to start playing, we have other guys who are horribly inconsistent, they go 18 games without scoring , then they have 3 point nights, G , JVR and Jake are very hot and cold. We have lost more games  due to a lack of scoring than due to the defense. I can’t see how we wouldn’t be much higher in the standings if we could just score some more goals. We do not have a consistent offensive threat on this team.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

The constant "sky is falling" hysterics is really becoming tiring (that's MY problem. People are welcome to their opinions). 

 

 

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

I don’t see how you can say offense isn’t a problem. I agree that our bottom 6 leave us vulnerable, but we also have players in our top 6 who wait until January to start playing, we have other guys who are horribly inconsistent, they go 18 games without scoring , then they have 3 point nights, G , JVR and Jake are very hot and cold. We have lost more games  due to a lack of scoring than due to the defense. I can’t see how we wouldn’t be much higher in the standings if we could just score some more goals. We do not have a consistent offensive threat on this team.

 

Well, it's  A problem in that it's inconsistent, but it's not the problem

 

I mean, the Flyers had to score 5 last Monday just to win in the shootout.   They're not the 80s Oilers.  They're simply not going to score 5 every night just to tie.

 

But it's not as if the defense is a problem every night, either.

 

The problem is inconsistency and playing with half a team of rookies, half of whom are filling in for the injured.   And at least temporarily playing with a backup goalie.

 

The inconsistency is simply a symptom of a young, inexperienced team, some of whom wouldn't be here yet if not for a ton of injuries.   It really is that simple.

 

We're 15th in the league in GF/G.   We're 13th in GA/G.    Both are middle of the road and indicate inconsistency, but neither are horrific.  I mean, they're actually scoring much better than either the Islanders or Columbus, who are ahead of them in the standings.   What they don't currently have is either team's defense or goaltending.     Not consistently.

 

It could get better as the "wet behind the ears" kids dry off.   But I don't expect it to.   It should likely be inconsistent all season long.  We'll see if that shakes out with a playoff spot or just missing.

 

If we can move JVR or Ghost or someone at the deadline, I'm not opposed to it.  In JVR's case, I'd support it.    Probably in Ghost's case too.   But I don't support a panic move for more offense.   That will come as we become more consistent.  I'd be thrilled if we first got more consistency on the backend.   But with Hagg playing more and with Sanheim paired with Myers way too much, I'm doubtful that happens anytime soon.

 

I wonder how attractive the Mona Lisa was half-finished.

[CoachX]

2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

The constant "sky is falling" hysterics is really becoming tiring (that's MY problem. People are welcome to their opinions). 

Edited January 21, 2020 by CoachX

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

 

I wonder how attractive the Mona Lisa was half-finished.

If youre gonna turn it down, turn it face down 

[RonJeremy]

@ruxpin, you are right, we can’t expect the team to be steady with all the young kids and the learning they have to do and their lack of experience. The thing that I hate is the veterans are just as inconsistent as well, but we have seen it for years .  So I guess the core players won’t suddenly change .

[ruxpin]

55 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

@ruxpin, you are right, we can’t expect the team to be steady with all the young kids and the learning they have to do and their lack of experience. The thing that I hate is the veterans are just as inconsistent as well, but we have seen it for years .  So I guess the core players won’t suddenly change .

Yeah, I don't think the core will change much (unless the wheels completely fall off - -  it's the only thing left to change) in terms of the core players leaving.  I would imagine that a new core would probably evolve and what has been our core will be less of a focus as they age. 

 

Coots, Konecny, Provorov, who knows will become that. 

 

Not by the end of the year. 

 

It's possible by next year we're ready, provided we actually make the playoffs this year and the kids get a taste.  

 

More than likely, it's a round or two next year and then we're looking at the year following. I'm actually as tired of the positive prognostications as the negative ones. We've all been doing both for too long. 

 

It's a message board, so that's what we do. I'm under no delusion that should change. 

 

So anyway, for me I'm just kind of "this was to be expected" and am attempting to take it as it comes.   For whatever it's worth, my sky is falling comment really wasn't directed at you (or anyone in particular, for that matter). 

 

I'm frustrated too, but at the moment I'm too tired to get up after wins or "burn it" after losses. I'm just kind of ride it out and see where we're at when the smoke clears. 

 

Cheers

Edited January 21, 2020 by ruxpin

[King Knut]

15 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

I don’t see how you can say offense isn’t a problem. I agree that our bottom 6 leave us vulnerable, but we also have players in our top 6 who wait until January to start playing, we have other guys who are horribly inconsistent, they go 18 games without scoring , then they have 3 point nights, G , JVR and Jake are very hot and cold. We have lost more games  due to a lack of scoring than due to the defense. I can’t see how we wouldn’t be much higher in the standings if we could just score some more goals. We do not have a consistent offensive threat on this team.

 

I can say it because I straight up don’t agree with the idea that they’ve lost more games due to lack of scoring than to lack of defense.  If you have to score 5, 6 or even 7 goals to win, the defense is your problem. 

 

In those games it doesnt doesn’t matter if you lose 5-1 and G and Jake disappeared or if you lose 5-3 but heck at least Jake and JVR and G all got goals and are consistent.  That’s not a thing that works. 

 

Hot ot and cold is pretty much how the game goes and a lot of it has to do with the fact that other teams play strong defense too.  They can shut down good players some nights.  

 

That gets back to the matchup problem. 

 

Its an easy, old and worn worn out gripe to blame G and Jake and JVR for not caring or having heart or for taking games off. 

 

The other thing Hong I really REALLY hope everyone can keep in mind this year is that Oskar is a popular player in the room and a strong one on the ice and the fact of the matter is, they all basically know he’s off for a game of Russian roulette that could take months or the rest of his life.  

 

They’re professionals, but they’re also human.  They’re going to have to process this and frankly, I think the fact that they learned about it on the road is psychologically having a huge impact on their road mentality.