We really need some help on offense.

[radoran]

5 minutes ago, King Knut said:

If they were in the PAC, they’d be in first place.  

 

you're welcome to encourage a relocation to the PAC, but I don't think it'll happen. They're not in the PAC, they're in the Metro in the Eastern Conference and they're in ninth place outside the playoffs looking in at the moment.

 

This has been my issue for a while. It's not whether they are "competitive" with hypothetical divisions they're not in. It's whether they can compete in the one they ARE in. These other teams aren't just waiting to give the Flyers their chance. The Flyers need to TAKE it.

 

8 minutes ago, King Knut said:

But at the All star Break they don’t need a miracle.

 

They don't need a miracle. They have their fate in their hands. Seven of their next 10 games are against teams above them in the Metro - PIT, WAS, 2 FLA, 2 CLS, NYI. They also need to Take Care of Business against the Dead Things and the Devils.

 

They don't need a miracle. They just have to DO it. And that doesn't mean "getting up for the big games" - it means getting up for EVERY game and making it happen. This team has no laurels to rest on.

 

 

[mojo1917]

26 minutes ago, King Knut said:

If they were in the PAC, they’d be in first place.  

If my aunt had any balls she'd be my uncle.

 

-nothing else that's it, one of my favorite sayings and I get so few opportunities to use it. 

 

good post, carry on.

[mojo1917]

@radoran

 

This is the first year in a while I haven't lied to myself about the talent on the roster.  They're 12pts ahead of last year's dreadful pace and have shown they can indeed "do it". 

 

I've often wondered what it would be like to be in a band with Henry Rollins. He's a thoughtful, intense and serious dude.

I'll bet he's a miserable son of a bitch, even if you're giving him great riffs for his poetry. 

That's it, Henry Rollins intense guy - team better than last year-  carry on.

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

This is the first year in a while I haven't lied to myself about the talent on the roster.  They're 12pts ahead of last year's dreadful pace and have shown they can indeed "do it". 

 

My mantra going into the season was "don't tell me, show me" - and it still is.

 

I don't want to see them come out gangbusters against the Pens and Avs and then let points slip away against Detroit and New Jersey. Lots of four point games coming up against teams that are just as motivated as the Flyers to win.

 

They also have to be wary of giving up OT/SO points to their division rivals.

 

Yes, they are 12 points ahead of LY. But the year before that they finished with 98 points and a 4-2 first round loss to the Pens. Two years before that and it was 96 points and a... 4-2 loss to the Caps. And, of course, the "good sign" in 13-14 when they had 94 points and lost 4-3 to the Cup Finalist Rangers.

 

4 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

He's a thoughtful, intense and serious dude.

 

Great description of Rollins.

[CoachX]

17 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

The 70s and 80s was probably the most violent and physical time in the NHL , but I dont remember players being so badly injured . To me when no one wore a helmet there was much more respect among the players,  as far as hits to the head.  Players also knew if they targeted skill players they were gonna get hammered.  Once everyone was wearing helmets the cheap shots increased and once they put in the instigator rule , little weasel players like Matt Cooke,etc started to do whatever they wanted since there was no deterrent. 

todays game has been softened to protect monetary investments. players in the 70s/80s played with injuries because they loved the sport, competed hard and didnt want to sit out. In an era of over caution and fear of liability, injuries are assessed as more serious. Therefore, there are more of them.

[CoachX]

21 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Other than Jake , who was the last player you wanted to punch in the face?

riley cote....i figured everyone else was doing it, why not me?

 

seriously....I hate every player who isnt on the flyers, wish them all ill will, and would like to punch all of them

[mojo1917]

14 minutes ago, CoachX said:

todays game has been softened to protect monetary investments. players in the 70s/80s played with injuries because they loved the sport, competed hard and didnt want to sit out. In an era of over caution and fear of liability, injuries are assessed as more serious. Therefore, there are more of them.

I also think medical technology and knowledge has advanced quite  a lot in the last 40 years. There is more known now, similar to weather technology, now there are tornado warnings that are quite accurate based on models and radar signatures, in the 70's  you knew a tornado was coming when you saw the funnel cloud. 

The truth will cost you everything.

[CoachX]

10 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I also think medical technology and knowledge has advanced quite  a lot in the last 40 years. There is more known now, similar to weather technology, now there are tornado warnings that are quite accurate based on models and radar signatures, in the 70's  you knew a tornado was coming when you saw the funnel cloud. 

The truth will cost you everything.

yeah, really good points

[King Knut]

On 1/24/2020 at 11:43 AM, CoachX said:

todays game has been softened to protect monetary investments. players in the 70s/80s played with injuries because they loved the sport, competed hard and didnt want to sit out. In an era of over caution and fear of liability, injuries are assessed as more serious. Therefore, there are more of them.

 

 

So why do you think it was Gretzky and Lemieux never got targeted for head shots the way Lindros did?

I mean that as a genuine question. No opinion or agenda.

 

It's not in exactly the same way now, but guys do specifically target quality players.  When that sort of thing happened to my memory in the 70's and 80's there was hell to pay, the benches cleared and everyone dropped the gloves and got bloody.  Now you get suspended for defending your targeted team mate. 

 

Clarke might break your ankle and Schultz would break your nose if you dropped them with him, but they didn't head hunt.  

 

I personally feel as though that just makes the game more dangerous and succeeds in softening nothing, but it does result in more injuries to popular and quality players.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by King Knut

[ruxpin]

3 minutes ago, King Knut said:

So why do you think it was Gretzky and Lemieux never got targeted for head shots the way Lindros did?

I mean that as a genuine question. No opinion or agenda.

 

I don't know, actually.  Good question.

 

If I had to offer suggestions, they'd be based on personal and playing style rather than era.

Gretzky and Lemieux both got away with cheap shots along the lines of Clarke and Crosby (sorry to put them in the same sentence). Stick work, elbow-type sneaky cheap shots.   Nothing happened because they had players riding shotgun.

Lindros may have taken abuse because he dished it out.  I mean, he could HIT.   And did.  And he'd park himself in front.  Crosby takes some of the "in front" abuse.   But Crosby has never hit the way Lindros did.  So, he may have drawn the attention of bigger guys either doing tit-for-tat or just leaving calling cards of "don't eff with my guys."

 

The other thing early on may have been about his sitting out on Quebec and then having the population and GDP of a small country traded for him.

 

Probably more the first guess than the second, but it could have been mixture of both.

 

And then the fact he didn't have someone riding shotgun to take care of things for him was huge and probably the biggest factor. If Lindros gets hit, maybe he kicks the crap out of you but you've managed to get him off the ice for 5 or more minutes.   You hit Gretzky or Mario and someone else is sitting.   Bonus if you injure Lindros in the process.

[OccamsRazor]

I think Ghost will be the sacrificial lamb offered up to find them a forward...and Chuckles may reach for the stars and make it part up a package not just some bottom 6 forward....my gut feeling....they are 5-2 without Ghost so if they need it help it seems like the most logical choice.

 

So it feels like if he does pull the trigger it will be a team out west can't see teams the Flyers are in a race for helping the Flyers out.

 

My two biggest gut feelings Brandon Saad or Jason Zucker.

 

If i am choosing i take Saad. My two cents....Ghost and a pick/prospect can get it done.

[King Knut]

45 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I don't know, actually.  Good question.

 

If I had to offer suggestions, they'd be based on personal and playing style rather than era.

Gretzky and Lemieux both got away with cheap shots along the lines of Clarke and Crosby (sorry to put them in the same sentence). Stick work, elbow-type sneaky cheap shots.   Nothing happened because they had players riding shotgun.

Lindros may have taken abuse because he dished it out.  I mean, he could HIT.   And did.  And he'd park himself in front.  Crosby takes some of the "in front" abuse.   But Crosby has never hit the way Lindros did.  So, he may have drawn the attention of bigger guys either doing tit-for-tat or just leaving calling cards of "don't eff with my guys."

 

The other thing early on may have been about his sitting out on Quebec and then having the population and GDP of a small country traded for him.

 

Probably more the first guess than the second, but it could have been mixture of both.

 

And then the fact he didn't have someone riding shotgun to take care of things for him was huge and probably the biggest factor. If Lindros gets hit, maybe he kicks the crap out of you but you've managed to get him off the ice for 5 or more minutes.   You hit Gretzky or Mario and someone else is sitting.   Bonus if you injure Lindros in the process.

 

 

Just so much doesn't add up.  

I understand that Lindros was not well liked and that he hit hard (it was a little difficult or him not to given his size, speed and skill) and I understand that the Flyers in general never did a damn thing to protect him (or their investment in him) which was utterly idiotic and for which the organization (not to mention the league) is still dealing with residual consequences IMHO.

 

But I'm not sure how that gets us today where it's relatively acceptable to come up high and late with your elbow on a skilled player who happens to be making a play. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[King Knut]

44 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I think Ghost will be the sacrificial lamb offered up to find them a forward...and Chuckles may reach for the stars and make it part up a package not just some bottom 6 forward....my gut feeling....they are 5-2 without Ghost so if they need it help it seems like the most logical choice.

 

So it feels like if he does pull the trigger it will be a team out west can't see teams the Flyers are in a race for helping the Flyers out.

 

My two biggest gut feelings Brandon Saad or Jason Zucker.

 

If i am choosing i take Saad. My two cents....Ghost and a pick/prospect can get it done.

 

Those are both $6million dollar bottom 6 wingers.  At least Saad is on a shorter contract.

 

You have to lose $2million more if you trade Ghost for them.

 

They're likely both improvements that can help in the short term.  

 

But IMHO, it'll be one of this team's more tragic legacies if it can't figure out what the hell is going on with Ghost and fix it rather than trading him for an overpaid 3RW. 

 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Those are both $6million dollar bottom 6 wingers. 

 

Uh no.

 

Zucker plays on the Wild's second line LW.

 

Saad plays on the Blackhawks second line LW.

 

They could bump some guys down. And yes Saad is on the shorter contract you got that right.

 

Both of those guys could bump Farabee down the lineup maybe even to the fourth give him some time versus lesser competition while helping the the defensive aspects of the 4th line.

 

You could have a LW of:

 

Giroux

Saad

JVR

Farabee

Edited January 27, 2020 by OccamsRazor

[King Knut]

57 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I think Ghost will be the sacrificial lamb offered up to find them a forward...and Chuckles may reach for the stars and make it part up a package not just some bottom 6 forward....my gut feeling....they are 5-2 without Ghost so if they need it help it seems like the most logical choice.

 

So it feels like if he does pull the trigger it will be a team out west can't see teams the Flyers are in a race for helping the Flyers out.

 

My two biggest gut feelings Brandon Saad or Jason Zucker.

 

If i am choosing i take Saad. My two cents....Ghost and a pick/prospect can get it done.

 

 

Brandon Saad

RW, LW

27

CHI

$6,000,000

$6,000,000

 = 16:22 / night and 21 points. 

Jason Zucker

LW, RW

28

MIN

$5,500,000

$5,500,000

$5,500,000

$5,500,000

 = 16 mins/ night and 28 points.

 

all of which is right at or below JVR and Hayes (who coincidentally cost more). 

 

Eric Staal maybe? One more year (he'll likely retire) at just over $3million and producing far better than Saad or Zucker.

 

It's also difficult for me to look at trading Ghost when the team clearly needs a PP specialist to light a fire there and they're sitting on a guy who used to be just that and hasn't been so for two years for reasons no one seems to be able to explain.  

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by King Knut

[OccamsRazor]

8 minutes ago, King Knut said:

But IMHO, it'll be one of this team's more tragic legacies if it can't figure out what the hell is going on with Ghost and fix it rather than trading him for an overpaid 3RW. 

 

I think Ghost might need a change of scenery...his 65 point season was 2017-18. Maybe that was just an anomaly.

 

A trade may show us....sure he could go somewhere and flourish but right now he just isn't coming around it seems.

 

But he will be 27 this April....maybe Ghost is what we are seeing right now....so why not trade him while his value is solid??

 

And Saad is 27 so you're getting good value back to add some grit toughness and size to the lineup.

[OccamsRazor]

5 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

 

Brandon Saad

RW, LW

27

CHI

$6,000,000

$6,000,000

 = 16:22 / night and 21 points. 

Jason Zucker

LW, RW

28

MIN

$5,500,000

$5,500,000

$5,500,000

$5,500,000

 = 16 mins/ night and 28 points.

 

all of which is right at or below JVR and Hayes (who coincidentally cost more). 

 

Eric Staal maybe? One more year (he'll likely retire) at just over $3million and producing far better than Saad or Zucker.

 

It's also difficult for me to look at trading Ghost when the team clearly needs a PP specialist to light a fire there and they're sitting on a guy who used to be just that and hasn't been so for two years for reasons no one seems to be able to explain.  

 

 

I am aware of all this it is why i prefer them over Staal who is over 7 or 8 years older which i don't want.

 

I hate to trade Ghost as well but i think that is where they are at....you have to give to get. You'll get over it.

 

Hell he has already requested a trade why not help him out while helping out the Flyers.

[King Knut]

8 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I think Ghost might need a change of scenery...his 65 point season was 2017-18. Maybe that was just an anomaly.

 

A trade may show us....sure he could go somewhere and flourish but right now he just isn't coming around it seems.

 

But he will be 27 this April....maybe Ghost is what we are seeing right now....so why not trade him while his value is solid??

 

And Saad is 27 so you're getting good value back to add some grit toughness and size to the lineup.

 

Honestly, I don't disagree on the change of scenery.  And I don't mind trading him for something of value.  I just don't think either Saad or Zucker are that value... at least not in any way that doesn't make the cap situation even worse.  

 

I don't think two years ago was an anomaly, I think when you watch him now, you see a stark difference.  He doesn't skate as much and he doesn't take the same shots from the same places.  

 

He's changed his game ostensibly for the sake of the team playing better.  

 

I've long been a proponent of trading him for value (long since past peak at this point because Hextall and then Fletcher delayed it) rather than trying to squeeze Ghost into a skillset that doesn't jibe with what he does best.  

 

It's a waste to neither use Ghost for what he does best nor to trade him for maximum value while he's doing it (if you think your staff can't handle making his skill set work with their system).  

 

I genuinely think Ghost has been trying his darndest to do what A) Hakstol said, then B) What Gordon said and now C) What AV says and none of the above include doing what he's actually good at.   

 

If Therrien's changes had totally revamped and fixed the PP, I wouldn't even have a twinge of criticism in the above.  I mostly just think you have to maximize your value for your assets as they will benefit your team (aka if you can't use, him, trade him).

 

As it is, I think all that AND am a little grumpy because Therrien hasn't really fixed much of anything and the PP from two years ago and before when Ghost was dancing and shooting like mad from the point and G was playing down low on the left side and Jake was on the right is still better than anything we've iced since.  

 

 

[King Knut]

14 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I am aware of all this it is why i prefer them over Staal who is over 7 or 8 years older which i don't want.

 

I hate to trade Ghost as well but i think that is where they are at....you have to give to get. You'll get over it.

 

Hell he has already requested a trade why not help him out while helping out the Flyers.

 

 

Why do I care if Staal is 7 or 8 years older when he's playing better and his contract ends much sooner (than Zucker's at least) and he costs half as much?  

 

What am I missing?  Why do you want a worse player who costs more and is under contract for much longer?

 

I've said all along I'm good with trading Ghost.  I just think it looks bad for the organization and if they trade him for Brandon friggin' Saad.  As an aside, they'll also have to trade Laughton or Raffl to make that deal work unless the Hawks retain $1.5-2 million of Saad's contract.  How's this helping anything?  

 

Trade Ghost!  Great.  Looks terrible to prospective UFA and RFA D-men coming through the system, but you can weather that by overspending on them like Fletcher did with Hayes.  

 

In the mean time, let's at least trade him for something that improves the situation and doesn't make it worse.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ruxpin]

6 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Why do I care if Staal is 7 or 8 years older when he's playing better and his contract ends much sooner (than Zucker's at least) and he costs half as much?

 

I think probably the idea is that if you're trading Ghost, you want someone young to get the bang out of the Ghost trade buck.

 

I like Staal.  I think we get a lot more player trading for him than either Saad or Zucker.   I like neither.   Zucker, in particular, seems to be a popular favorite, but he's never shown me anything.

 

Between Staal, Saad, or Zucker, I go with Staal.  Short term, he's a help, but I don't think we're that type of player away from something.  I get Staal if I need a seasoned guy to get me to the last level.   

 

My preference would be something in Zucker's age-range that is actually good.   I'd consider the longer-termed contract if that were the case.

[King Knut]

28 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I am aware of all this it is why i prefer them over Staal who is over 7 or 8 years older which i don't want.

 

I hate to trade Ghost as well but i think that is where they are at....you have to give to get. You'll get over it.

 

Hell he has already requested a trade why not help him out while helping out the Flyers.

 

Toffoli maybe?

 

[King Knut]

4 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I think probably the idea is that if you're trading Ghost, you want someone young to get the bang out of the Ghost trade buck.

 

I like Staal.  I think we get a lot more player trading for him than either Saad or Zucker.   I like neither.   Zucker, in particular, seems to be a popular favorite, but he's never shown me anything.

 

Between Staal, Saad, or Zucker, I go with Staal.  Short term, he's a help, but I don't think we're that type of player away from something.  I get Staal if I need a seasoned guy to get me to the last level.   

 

My preference would be something in Zucker's age-range that is actually good.   I'd consider the longer-termed contract if that were the case.

 

Toffoli?

 

Won't be able to resign him unless they move JVR, but the age is right.  

Edited January 27, 2020 by King Knut

[ruxpin]

24 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Toffoli?

 

Won't be able to resign him unless they move JVR, but the age is right.  

 

OR had mentioned him awhile ago.  Honestly, I was initially against it, and I don't think I could enunciate why at the time.  I still can't.   I've actually warmed to that idea.  I'd kick the tires.

[brelic]

Back to hating players for a second... 

 

There are two right now that I want to punch in their ugly mugs.

 

Brady Tkachuk.

Borowiecki.

 

Carry on.

[King Knut]

16 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

OR had mentioned him awhile ago.  Honestly, I was initially against it, and I don't think I could enunciate why at the time.  I still can't.   I've actually warmed to that idea.  I'd kick the tires.

 

I think I kinda like it.  

 

There were rumors back when the Kings were in town that they were talking Carter, but I don't see how that helps much other than getting Giroux back to wing maybe... but if the alphabet soup line keeps producing, I don't see them trading JVR or moving GIroux off the wing.  

 

I just wish there was a realistic way of flipping Toffoli for JVR for next season, but no one has that cap space.  If they did, they'd just sign Toffoli.   

 

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by King Knut