We really need some help on offense.

[King Knut]

8 minutes ago, tucson83 said:

if it wasnt for hayes this team would alot worse right now, now if somehow add another center like pageau from the sens, i think he will put this team over the top and hopefully hart will play in his top form, this team can go deep in the playoffs. st. louis won the cup because they had depth on the center position and binnington played over the top.

 

In hindsight, it really seems that Fletcher knew exactly what was going on with Patrick at the end of last year and he knew he needed Hayes.  At the time I was mortified at the contract they gave hayes, but if you know you're down your prospective 2C and 2nd overall pick from two years ago, you kinda have to take care of business and Fletcher did the right thing in Hayes.  

 

I'd take Pageau in a heartbeat, but they've been reticent to trade within the conference in the past.  

 

[RonJeremy]

@King Knut Im not opposed to trading for Getzlaf, as long as we dont trade Ghost for him and as long as we can dump a big contract. As you said,  Anaheim probably wont do that. The other problem is, with Lindblom out, JVR is our best left wing, so if he is traded for Getzlaf , we are then very weak on left wing. I still think Ghost should be traded for a young scoring winger .At Ghosts current value , a fair trade for both teams would he Kapanen for Ghost, the Ghost of 2 years ago would be worth alot more. If he comes back and starts scoring his value will go up for a summer trade, if not then a guy like Kapanen or a similar player is the best we would probably get. I love Max Domi and Montreal is talking anoit trading him and they need defense, so I would try to make a deal but we would have to give them something else aside from Ghost.

[brelic]

On 1/27/2020 at 4:55 PM, OccamsRazor said:

So would you be willing to move a Frost and Ghost and picks for him and maybe more???

 

For a nearly 28 year old 40-45 point forward??????? There's no way Toffoli is worth nearly that much.

[radoran]

59 minutes ago, King Knut said:

In hindsight, it really seems that Fletcher knew exactly what was going on with Patrick at the end of last year

 

It's really looking more and more like that.

[King Knut]

13 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

@King Knut Im not opposed to trading for Getzlaf, as long as we dont trade Ghost for him and as long as we can dump a big contract. As you said,  Anaheim probably wont do that. The other problem is, with Lindblom out, JVR is our best left wing, so if he is traded for Getzlaf , we are then very weak on left wing. I still think Ghost should be traded for a young scoring winger .At Ghosts current value , a fair trade for both teams would he Kapanen for Ghost, the Ghost of 2 years ago would be worth alot more. If he comes back and starts scoring his value will go up for a summer trade, if not then a guy like Kapanen or a similar player is the best we would probably get. I love Max Domi and Montreal is talking anoit trading him and they need defense, so I would try to make a deal but we would have to give them something else aside from Ghost.

 

I can deal with Kapanen.  Especially on the Contract he just signed.Toronto might go for that.  

I honestly expected Fletcher to make a trade with Toronto for Ghost before the season started.  I wasn't sure what we'd get back at the time, but I was surprised it didn't happen.  

 

Tucson83 mentioned Pageau and I like that because he's a center, but as a pending UFA, he'd just be a rental we likely couldn't afford to resign.  Toronto isn't as deep on the right side.  They may push for a NAK or someone for their trouble.   

 

 

 

[tucson83]

21 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I can deal with Kapanen.  Especially on the Contract he just signed.Toronto might go for that.  

I honestly expected Fletcher to make a trade with Toronto for Ghost before the season started.  I wasn't sure what we'd get back at the time, but I was surprised it didn't happen.  

 

Tucson83 mentioned Pageau and I like that because he's a center, but as a pending UFA, he'd just be a rental we likely couldn't afford to resign.  Toronto isn't as deep on the right side.  They may push for a NAK or someone for their trouble.   

 

 

 

im going to say this, if fletch gets pageau it means one of the big contracts are going to be moved in the summer and he will resign pageau and frost will probably replace that player that gets moved, if ghost gets moved for him, it means either cam york is going to replace or a midlevel cheap d is going to replace him, until cam york is ready because getting cam york pretty much means it's the end of ghost.

Edited January 30, 2020 by tucson83

[King Knut]

1 minute ago, tucson83 said:

im going to say this, if fletch gets pageau it means one of the big contracts are going to be moved in the summer and he will resign pageau and frost will probably replace that player that gets moved.

 

I would love that, but it would have to be Jake or JVR.  

Jake's the better player and far more difficult for Fletcher to replace with Pageau, JVR has a slighty easier contract to unload, but... you know... he's JVR. 

 

I'm not sure what team is going to take either though as I'm not sure what team out there will have 7-8 million and is a Jake or JVR away from where they want to be.  

[MaineFlyFan]

Is Kapanen Sami's kid?!....If so, Land him on THAT alone.

 

LOVED me some Sami Kappenen back in the day.... (Google Kasparitis/Kapanen hit).

[radoran]

38 minutes ago, King Knut said:

I can deal with Kapanen.  Especially on the Contract he just signed.Toronto might go for that. 

 

There's Another Thread on the concept of a trade for Kapanen (in that one it was for Myers, not Ghost - but Ghost came up).

 

One of the issues that was brought up is that he's a RW on a team that's got two top 6 RWs already. General feeling was there would need to be a Jake move for it to make sense.

 

For the record, I like Kapanen a lot.

 

14 minutes ago, King Knut said:

Fletcher to replace with Pageau

 

Pageau is having a career year in a contract year and that's not a good recipe for long term success. It's a good recipe for overpayment. And I say this as the guy in NAHANA that's had Pageau on his roster all season.

 

Guy topped out at 19/43 in 15-16. He's playing top line center in Ottawa and wouldn't sniff top line, much less likely top 6 in Philadelphia.

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

The other problem is, with Lindblom out, JVR is our best left wing

 

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

so if he is traded for Getzlaf , we are then very weak on left wing.

we are weak with him on left wing

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, brelic said:

 

For a nearly 28 year old 40-45 point forward??????? There's no way Toffoli is worth nearly that much.

 

I agree. It's why I said pass.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

There's Another Thread on the concept of a trade for Kapanen (in that one it was for Myers, not Ghost - but Ghost came up).

 

How about a Andrea's Johnsson for Ghost swap.

 

Gives them another LW on a good contract.

 

Just asking aloud....

[radoran]

4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

How about a Andrea's Johnsson for Ghost swap.

 

Gives them another LW on a good contract.

 

Just asking aloud....

 

I'm not irretrievably opposed. 25-year-old, scored 20 last year. Signed for 3 more at $3.4M per.

 

Not sure that Tronno does that... Might also depend on how the Flyers view Lindblom's situation...

[OccamsRazor]

12 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

I'm not irretrievably opposed. 25-year-old, scored 20 last year. Signed for 3 more at $3.4M per.

 

Not sure that Tronno does that... Might also depend on how the Flyers view Lindblom's situation...

 

Yes Lindblom situation would be worth knowing more but if he comes back then you have a movable contract if need be.

 

And it would help in the now.

[King Knut]

45 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

There's Another Thread on the concept of a trade for Kapanen (in that one it was for Myers, not Ghost - but Ghost came up).

 

One of the issues that was brought up is that he's a RW on a team that's got two top 6 RWs already. General feeling was there would need to be a Jake move for it to make sense.

 

For the record, I like Kapanen a lot.

 

 

Pageau is having a career year in a contract year and that's not a good recipe for long term success. It's a good recipe for overpayment. And I say this as the guy in NAHANA that's had Pageau on his roster all season.

 

Guy topped out at 19/43 in 15-16. He's playing top line center in Ottawa and wouldn't sniff top line, much less likely top 6 in Philadelphia.

 

Moving Jake for Kapanen would defeat the purpose.  

We need our 3RW to be better than it is.  

19 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

How about a Andrea's Johnsson for Ghost swap.

 

Gives them another LW on a good contract.

 

Just asking aloud....

 

He's having a pretty off season.  Might not take Ghost.   

[King Knut]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yes Lindblom situation would be worth knowing more but if he comes back then you have a movable contract if need be.

 

And it would help in the now.

 

Change of scenery might help him and he might help Hayes on the 3rd.

Could move Laughton back to Center and get Bunny back to the minors.  

 

Next year is next year.  If we get a healthy Oskar back, I will gladly deal with the problem of too many LW's.  

[radoran]

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

Moving Jake for Kapanen would defeat the purpose.  

We need our 3RW to be better than it is.  

 

Just relating the thoughts from the Other Thread.

 

Again, I gots no problem picking up Kapanen.

[radoran]

19 hours ago, King Knut said:

Next year is next year.  If we get a healthy Oskar back, I will gladly deal with the problem of too many LW's.  

 

"Needing" to make a move for "this year" is what loses Justin Williams and gains you a Danny Markov. (EDIT: I get that you're not necessarily advocating for a rental situation, and that you are happy to have a too many talented LW "problem" next year).

 

I don't feel the "need" to move Ghost so they can be the eighth best team in the East. If they're going to move Ghost, they should get something with a longer effect than "we might make the playoff this season."

 

They already might make the playoffs this season. I don't see where "upgrading" a 3RW or 2LW makes them definitely a second round playoff team. And I'm not at all convinced it makes them 7-game-playoff-series competitive with the Capitals, Bruins, etc.

 

There is some time to feel that out between now and the 24th. If they go on a tear in the next 12 games and put themselves in a different position, I might feel differently.

Edited January 31, 2020 by radoran

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

 

"Needing" to make a move for "this year" is what loses Justin Williams and gains you a Danny Markov.

 

I don't feel the "need" to move Ghost so they can be the eighth best team in the East. If they're going to move Ghost, they should get something with a longer effect than "we might make the playoff this season."

 

They already might make the playoffs this season. I don't see where "upgrading" a 3RW or 2LW makes them definitely a second round playoff team. And I'm not at all convinced it makes them 7-game-playoff-series competitive with the Capitals, Bruins, etc.

 

There is some time to feel that out between now and the 24th. If they go on a tear in the next 12 games and put themselves in a different position, I might feel differently.

 

I agree I have to say I am ok if they don't do anything and just ride this wave out and evaluate the future of the team in the offseason.

 

If a good move is there then make it but don't make a desperate move just to say you tried.

 

On paper this team still has enough to make the playoffs if everyone plays solid team first hockey.

 

Yet I know the game isn't played on paper and what happens on the ice is all that matters.

 

I still think they have the guys to get in.

[radoran]

41 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I still think they have the guys to get in.

 

This is true. And they've just go to go do it.

 

But there's no immediate need to go out and get a rental to make it happen. Much less deal a 26-year-old defenseman with a 40-point pedigree signed for a reasonable number for three more years to get that rental.

 

To be clear, I'm OK with moving Ghost, but just not for a rental to "make the playoffs" this year. Your Johnsson suggestion, for example has some legs to it (I just don't see why Tronno makes the move - they just put $4.3M in signing bonus down on the guy).

 

And I'm quite serious that the next 12 games will really show us what this team's "potential" is and after Winnipeg on the 22nd there's still two days before the trade deadline.

[King Knut]

2 hours ago, radoran said:

 

"Needing" to make a move for "this year" is what loses Justin Williams and gains you a Danny Markov.

 

 

No.  That was just stupidity.  I said so at the time.  I was FURIOUS with Clarke and Hitchcock for letting that go down.  

 

As I've said throughout this thread, I'm not crazy about moving Ghost either because the PP isn't good enough right now and Therrien has pretty much given up on Ghost at the point and Giroux down on the left side.   It's a little crazy to me to trade Ghost when you're not even trying to utilize him the way he worked best. 

 

But I feel like this exchange is about "what if we traded Ghost?  What would be best?" and to that ends, getting a LW or a C at middle 6 quality to help even out the bottom 6 is the only thing worth trading him for.   I'm not so concerned about getting a longer term guy out of it for him right now because I feel like you can get that guy in UFA this summer, but if they can trade for an RFA type guy (Kapanen, Johnsson) then that pretty much solves that.  I'd just hate sending Ghost to the Leafs, but it might be good for him too.

 

2 hours ago, radoran said:

 

I don't see where "upgrading" a 3RW or 2LW makes them definitely a second round playoff team. And I'm not at all convinced it makes them 7-game-playoff-series competitive with the Capitals, Bruins, etc.

 

 

That's the difference.  I actually genuinely do wee them upgrading the middle 6 (and hence the bottom 6) as about as definitely as anyone can say, making them at least a second round playoff team.  

 

The bottom 6 being as weak as it is right now (almost exclusively because of Patrick and Lindblom and their improbable ailments) as being the thing that is keeping this team from being second in the division.  Their pts.% at home is at .760.  That's tied for second in the league.   Their Points % away is at .440 which is an appalling contrast.   If it was merely moderately worse at .600-.666 than their home record, they'd be the 2nd best team in the league.   

 

When they are away, the bottom 6 gets scored on and the top 6 are easier to shut down.    

 

We can talk on this board about intangilble perceptions like "guts" and "fire" and "compete", but the solution is simpler.  The bottom 6 are predominantly inexperienced, AHL level talent. The "good" bottom 6ers like Raffl, Laughton and Pitlick have been in and out of the roster with injuries that have also coincided with big road trips.  It's been a perfect recipe for road disaster.  

 

We still have a damn year until Seattle and the CBA expiration (and any hope for complicity buyouts) is another year after that.  So Short of a miracle, we're stuck with JVR for at least another year, maybe two, so signing and keeping any top 6 talent before then is nigh on impossible. 

 

You might convince someone to take JVR for someone a little better than JVR if you toss in a Ghost.  

 

Other than a deal like that, the most realistic option for improving this team for both THIS YEAR and the next Two years after that is to trade Ghost or another D man (If it's Myers or Sanheim or Provo, I ain't listening) for a decent middle 6 forward.  The more I think about it, the more someone like Johnsson or Kapanen from Toronto make sense.  

 

Can anyone think of another player like on a similar contract someplace else?  

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by King Knut

[King Knut]

54 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I agree I have to say I am ok if they don't do anything and just ride this wave out and evaluate the future of the team in the offseason.

 

If a good move is there then make it but don't make a desperate move just to say you tried.

 

On paper this team still has enough to make the playoffs if everyone plays solid team first hockey.

 

Yet I know the game isn't played on paper and what happens on the ice is all that matters.

 

I still think they have the guys to get in.

 

I'm okay with this, but honestly, if they don't at least try putting G on the left side of the PP with Ghost back on the point (when Ghost is better obviously) and see if they can't make that work, then I don't know what the hell to do with Therrien.  

 

IF they can't improve the middle 6 (there's a good chance that guys like Ruby and NAK will just get better at it as they play more) then they  have to AT LEAST try to fix the PP.

 

Ultimately, AV and company really SHOULD be able to figure out how to make it so GHOST can help this team win more games.  That said (and I've been saying this for a few years now since maybe Hak's 2nd season) if they're not even going to try to have Ghost help him, then they should damn well trade him for something they can use to help them.  Hanging onto the guy and not utilizing him isn't going to help this team do anything.  

 

As far as I'm concerned, if Toronto is at all amenable, AV and Therrien have three weeks of games until the deadline to make Ghost more valuable to the team or I'm seriously considering Kapanen or Johnsson.

[radoran]

18 minutes ago, King Knut said:

That's the difference.  I actually genuinely do see them upgrading the middle 6 (and hence the bottom 6) as about as definitely as anyone can say, making them at least a second round playoff team.  

 

I want to see what they do against Florida (twice), the Islanders, and Columbus (twice) in the next three weeks. Those are all four point games in the standings against teams ahead of them and those are not at all insurmountable challenges with what they have now. And, of course, TCOB against Detroit and New Jersey.

 

Getting points against Pittsburgh, Washington, and/or Tampa on the road would be a bonus.

 

As always, if they can get a good deal to make the team better now and long term - take it.

Edited January 31, 2020 by radoran

[King Knut]

11 minutes ago, radoran said:

To be clear, I'm OK with moving Ghost, but just not for a rental to "make the playoffs" this year. Your Johnsson suggestion, for example has some legs to it (I just don't see why Tronno makes the move - they just put $4.3M in signing bonus down on the guy).

 

And I'm quite serious that the next 12 games will really show us what this team's "potential" is and after Winnipeg on the 22nd there's still two days before the trade deadline.

 

I think the idea of a rental to make the playoffs comes with the contingency that they'd be signing someone more long term in the off season.   But I too would rather see them lock in someone now.   

 

Kapanen is the wrong side and scoring way too much for Toronto to give up right now more than likely, but Toronto has a pretty glaring D man problem in that they only have one guy under contract for next season and he's currently on LTIR.  A cap neutral trade of a fwd for a top 4 D man and a potential PP specialist to boot is a relatively smart move for them even if they lose the signing bonus. Toronto and the Flyers (Toronto even more so) have to worry about the cap far more than actual dollars spent.  

 

11 minutes ago, radoran said:

And I'm quite serious that the next 12 games will really show us what this team's "potential" is and after Winnipeg on the 22nd there's still two days before the trade deadline.

 

I think that's only true if they come out winning most of them.  I genuinely don't think that if they lose 4 or 5 of the 7 away games add win 3 or 4 of the 5 home games, I won't be surprised and they'll be following exactly the same pattern as they are now because they haven't done anything to address the easily apparent problems.  

 

They won a hard fought game IN St. Louis.  That's a sign that they can do it... but expecting them to be able to suddenly overcome a roster flaw without addressing the Roster Flaw in any way isn't a terribly good way to assess the potential of the team.  It just shows you that the roster flaw you saw at Christmas and did nothing about remained a roster flaw at the deadline.  

 

We'll see.  The Penguins game feels ominous.  It's in Pittsburgh, they kinda handed it to the Pens before the break and the Flyers absolutely suck coming off long breaks.  

 

 

 

[King Knut]

13 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

I want to see what they do against Florida (twice), the Islanders, and Columbus (twice) in the next three weeks. Those are all four point games in the standings against teams ahead of them and those are not at all insurmountable challenges with what they have now. And, of course, TCOB against Detroit and New Jersey.

 

Getting points against Pittsburgh, Washington, and/or Tampa on the road would be a bonus.

 

As always, if they can get a good deal to make the team better now and long term - take it.

 

Problem is 3 of those 5 games are away.  If they can't solve their last change bottom 6 problems with coaching or line juggling they could end up at the deadline in need of another miracle run instead of being in a pretty good position.  Having to play Lyon at home against Columbus (at least) isn't going to help anything.  

 

It may be worth it to break up the top 6 to even out all the lines, but that could backfire too and just get every damn line scored on.

 

Then I'll just have to listen to everyone whine about how "this team just doesn't have it" or "doesn't care" or "we need a new captain" or whatever instead of the very real assessment that we lost two key middle 6 players and never were able to replace them because the veteran leadership on this team is actually doing it's job.

 

I can cope with it, I'm a big boy.  But it'd help if everyone here and on twitter and what not could promise not to be short sighted complainers.