Wild trade deadline

[ClusterChuck]

I know the old " You have to give something of value to get some back" so with that said...

 

I'm not big on dumping all that are possible for a bunch of picks and some Chuckies that may or not pan out.

I'd want to keep some of the young and consistent players to build around in the next year or two.

 

Brodin: Heads my list to keep. As @Icechipper said "Brodin. Please no. He is the team's best skater and diffuses dangerous attacks with poise and savvy. Great model for Soucy." He's our most consistent player and quietly gets the job done better than any of our D, Including now Spurgeon.

Foligno: Keep...Solid overall player. Why risk consistency for a chance pick at best. I'd go as far as to give him an 'A' on his jersey next season because of his leadership on and off the ice.

 

Dumba: Trade ...Flash in the pan results last season but still has value. I was changing my mind on him last season but now we're back to previous years, Same inconsistencies. I put him in the talent pool of a Coyle, Nino, Granlund etc. 

 

Spurgeon: Trade... Contract may hinder the possibility but he's dropped bigtime in making much impact in games this year.

 

Donato: Trade...If needed in a multi player deal.

 

Dubnyk: Trade?...Hard to be 100% into your game/job when family issues are serious. Shouldn't be playing but maybe his wife told him to go do. Best years are when our D was doing great. The team plays very differently effort wise depending on who's in net and now they favor Stalock. 

 

Greenway: Tough call... Maybe a slow developer. Hard to give up on him so soon while the team is in transistion.. If a multi player deal came up and we were getting something really good (and not a big name crusty Vet) I'd be fine with him in a trade. Big potential value.

 

Staal: I'd like to keep him. Not going to get the results of 2 seasons ago anymore but still works hard and is a good presence. No real value in trading him.

 

[Gnarkill]

    The only thing that makes me gun shy about trading Dumba ... is the fact I'm reading the exact same argument people made for trading Burns years ago.. and use to justify the trade to this day "he didn't show consistency until he was gone yadda yadda". I agree, if Dumba is what he is at this point he's trade bait .. but a small part of me worries the Wild just haven't given him enough time. I'm by no means saying he'll end up as great as Burns but Dumba shows flashes of what could be a very, very good defenseman and he's about the same age as Burns was when the Wild cut ties if I remember correctly. Unless they're getting a proven #1 or #2 center plus other assets back I wouldn't be in a hurry to trade him. At least not yet. If he does choose to pull the trigger.. BG better be getting something very solid in return here as the team can't afford to be set back further by losing more of the Wild's assets for minimal return. Even if a team is in blow-up full rebuild mode they should be getting back more value for the future than what the Wild has been in past trades.. and please no more over the hill aging vets with NMC/NTC.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Gnarkill

[lynxrattle]

The problem with the Burns trade was that we got nothing comparable back. If trading Dumba would bring us a legit 1C with mileage left, seeing Dumba excel elsewhere would not sting that badly. But how much would he be worth...

[IllaZilla]

1 hour ago, lynxrattle said:

The problem with the Burns trade was that we got nothing comparable back. If trading Dumba would bring us a legit 1C with mileage left, seeing Dumba excel elsewhere would not sting that badly. But how much would he be worth...

Well, at the time of the trade, the return for Burns was Charlie Coyle, a first round pick, and Devin Setoguchi.

Coyle was a previous first round draft pick who was very productive in the Q. He improved yearly playing left wing, hitting 56 points in 2016-17. However after that, the Wild got the bright idea to turn him into a center and he never topped 40 points again. 
The Wild spent the first round pick on Zack Phillips. The big knock on Phillips was that he was a poor skater. While Phillips was a prolific scorer in the Q, it never translated to the pro game. He never played a game in the NHL. 

Setoguchi was fairly productive when he was paired with Matt Cullen. When the Wild let Cullen walk, Setoguchi’s production plummeted. He was traded to Winnipeg for a second round pick. 
The Wild actually got a decent return for Burns. But they mismanaged the return.
 

[Tomdog]

3 hours ago, Gnarkill said:

    BG better be getting something very solid in return here as the team can't afford to be set back further by losing more of the Wild's assets for minimal return. Even if a team is in blow-up full rebuild mode they should be getting back more value for the future than what the Wild has been in past trades.. and please no more over the hill aging vets with NMC/NTC.

I get the feeling that BG isn't going to make trades for the sake of making a trade.

I think Bill learned well from Rutherford.

[Antti_Laxative]

If the Wilds take Domi from the Habs, you guys are dead to me.

 

Here's the rumoured deal...apparently from Russo:

 

https://www.gohabsgo.com/articles/blockbuster-trade-between-minnesota-and-montreal-f/

Edited February 14, 2020 by Antti_Laxative

[Antti_Laxative]

2 hours ago, Antti_Laxative said:

If the Wilds take Domi from the Habs, you guys are dead to me.

 

Here's the rumoured deal...apparently from Russo:

 

https://www.gohabsgo.com/articles/blockbuster-trade-between-minnesota-and-montreal-f/

Same rumour from the MTL presse

Remember I told you first

 

https://www.lapresse.ca/sports/hockey/202002/14/01-5260926-domi-pour-dumba-ou-brodin-oh-que-oui.php

Edited February 15, 2020 by Antti_Laxative

[lynxrattle]

Dumba for Domi would certainly make it easier to forget the badly timed (and disrespectful) firing of Boudreau!

[Icechipper]

 Byfuglien anyone? Winnipeg fans I've talked are fed up with him. The Wild could get him this summer, but would have to hire a personal trainer to steer the 260-lb beast away from the buffet and nightclubs and into the gym......OK, there it is. I'll just duck now.....

[lynxrattle]

Too much risk involved. Is he going to be able to get himself in shape again, he is getting older.

[CreaseAndAssist]

Ondrej Kase, a guy who had 25 points yielded a 1st rounder..  INSANE.  Russo has reported the team has asked Koivu if he'd waive his NMC, and Parise apparently has a choice to make too.  IMO, giddy up...hopefully we deal 'em both and take a big step towards being younger, faster.  

[Gnarkill]

According to Russo:

 

Quote

Mikko Koivu informed GM Bill Guerin this afternoon that he will stay in Minnesota for the rest of the season.

 

 

It doesn't surprise me... guy has been selfish his whole career here.. why should he want to help the team get something back that would help instead of him just clogging a roster spot for the rest of the season and being useless? Nice job Craptain Koivu.

 

 

 

[EL_CAPITAN_#9]

1 hour ago, Gnarkill said:

According to Russo:

 

 

 

It doesn't surprise me... guy has been selfish his whole career here.. why should he want to help the team get something back that would help instead of him just clogging a roster spot for the rest of the season and being useless? Nice job Craptain Koivu.

 

 

 

 

I think this is right choice from Koivu! This is great example how Captain should act. Younger team needs leader, and even though he could/should have jump to "hunt for Stanley"- teams, he does this. Gotta respect Mikko! He really loves Wild team...

[ClusterChuck]

On 2/21/2020 at 3:09 PM, Icechipper said:

 Byfuglien anyone? Winnipeg fans I've talked are fed up with him. The Wild could get him this summer, but would have to hire a personal trainer to steer the 260-lb beast away from the buffet and nightclubs and into the gym......OK, there it is. I'll just duck now.....

Only if we were a legitimat deep run PO team and needed that 1 piece.

[Tomdog]

3 hours ago, EL_CAPITAN_#9 said:

 

I think this is right choice from Koivu! This is great example how Captain should act. Younger team needs leader, and even though he could/should have jump to "hunt for Stanley"- teams, he does this. Gotta respect Mikko! He really loves Wild team...

No, I think he just doesn't want to do a relocate for a few months.

[lynxrattle]

It's understandable if the decision is based on his family situation. If not, well...

[Hockey-78]

11 hours ago, Gnarkill said:

According to Russo:

 

 

 

It doesn't surprise me... guy has been selfish his whole career here.. why should he want to help the team get something back that would help instead of him just clogging a roster spot for the rest of the season and being useless? Nice job Craptain Koivu.

 

 

 

This also means Koivu won't be offered an extension for next season.

 

And since he's reluctant to play anywhere else and there's probably close to zero demand for his services... in essence this means Koivu's NHL career is over.

[IllaZilla]

6 hours ago, Hockey-78 said:

This also means Koivu won't be offered an extension for next season.

 

And since he's reluctant to play anywhere else and there's probably close to zero demand for his services... in essence this means Koivu's NHL career is over.

I wouldn’t go that far.

 

I think it’s going to depend on the number of centers available in free agency. If there are decent centers available, then maybe Guerin let’s Koivu walk. But if there aren’t, I can see Guerin giving him a one year extension. If there are decent centers available in free agency, Guerin is going to have to overpay to get one here. Most likely with a NTC or NMC.

The Wild really have no centers in the pipeline ready to go next season, other than maybe Sturm. And he’s supposed to top out at a 3C. Khovanov can make all the noise he wants about playing in the NHL or going to the KHL, but it’s extremely difficult to go from juniors to the NHL. Look at how poorly Dumba played his first season jumping from the WHL to the NHL. He was terrible and the Wild sent him back to Portland. 
 

I would prefer to see the Wild move on from Koivu, but it won’t surprise me in the least if they extend him. 

[Hockey-78]

26 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

I wouldn’t go that far.

 

I think it’s going to depend on the number of centers available in free agency. If there are decent centers available, then maybe Guerin let’s Koivu walk. But if there aren’t, I can see Guerin giving him a one year extension. If there are decent centers available in free agency, Guerin is going to have to overpay to get one here. Most likely with a NTC or NMC.

The Wild really have no centers in the pipeline ready to go next season, other than maybe Sturm. And he’s supposed to top out at a 3C. Khovanov can make all the noise he wants about playing in the NHL or going to the KHL, but it’s extremely difficult to go from juniors to the NHL. Look at how poorly Dumba played his first season jumping from the WHL to the NHL. He was terrible and the Wild sent him back to Portland. 
 

I would prefer to see the Wild move on from Koivu, but it won’t surprise me in the least if they extend him. 

There's not much Koivu can offer atm. And he most likely won't develop anything new during the summer. Basically he's just a warm body filler from now on.

 

So I'm thinking by taking someone say 10 years younger Guerin takes a calculated but minimal risk. In Koivu the Wild loses some FO prowess, decent positioning and defensive play... not much, his legs have gone.

 

I don't know how many OK 4th line centers there are available but IMO it's better to pay around $1 mil. to anyone not named Koivu than say $2-3 mil. to Koivu. Even in the worst case you get better wheels and effort.

 

And now that even his marriage is on the rocks, he might have trouble focusing on hockey. Might be heading back to Finland.

[IllaZilla]

1 minute ago, Hockey-78 said:

There's not much Koivu can offer atm. And he most likely won't develop anything new during the summer. Basically he's just a warm body filler from now on.

 

So I'm thinking by taking someone say 10 years younger Guerin takes a calculated but minimal risk. In Koivu the Wild loses some FO prowess, decent positioning and defensive play... not much, his legs have gone.

 

I don't know how many OK 4th line centers there are available but IMO it's better to pay around $1 mil. to anyone not named Koivu than say $2-3 mil. to Koivu. Even in the worst case you get better wheels and effort.

 

And now that even his marriage is on the rocks, he might have trouble focusing on hockey. Might be heading back to Finland.

I’m not disagreeing with you. I think it is time for the Wild to move on from Koivu. For whatever reason (age, personal issues, combination, etc.) his game has fallen off precipitously.

I’m just saying don’t be surprised if Guerin gives him a one year extension. 

[CreaseAndAssist]

7 hours ago, Hockey-78 said:

This also means Koivu won't be offered an extension for next season.

 

And since he's reluctant to play anywhere else and there's probably close to zero demand for his services... in essence this means Koivu's NHL career is over.

 

We don't know that...this organization has massively overpaid this guy on MULTIPLE contracts involving multiple GM's.  There is still time for this team to double-down and make another incredible mistake.  No real surprise the fragile ego of the captain comes into play that he doesn't waive his NMC to actually pursue a Stanley Cup.  That isn't honor or a want to stay with his team.  Its his selfish wish to be with just one team (I am sure his older brother Saku would've preferred that but didn't get it) so now he's going to get just that.  He knows his 'Angry Mikko' act won't play too well anywhere else but here.  

[Hockey-78]

26 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

I’m not disagreeing with you. I think it is time for the Wild to move on from Koivu. For whatever reason (age, personal issues, combination, etc.) his game has fallen off precipitously.

I’m just saying don’t be surprised if Guerin gives him a one year extension. 

I know you weren't. I just wanted to lay it out how I see it. Outside of this board I've been told to be very capable of analytical thinking...

 

Since Guerin would go on and trade Zucker tells me he too thinks it's time for bigger changes, and it was a good trade.

 

Although when an average Wild looks back and sees what players have been moved within a year (Zucker, Granlund, Coyle and Niederreiter, the four most promising forward prospects) you'd think the front office has zero clue what changes SHOULD take place. Well, 3 of those were on Fenton so Guerin has a pretty good record so far.

 

But yeah, I would be surprised to see Koivu getting an extension especially for a sizable amount of money.

[IllaZilla]

2 minutes ago, Hockey-78 said:

I know you weren't. I just wanted to lay it out how I see it. Outside of this board I've been told to be very capable of analytical thinking...

 

Since Guerin would go on and trade Zucker tells me he too thinks it's time for bigger changes, and it was a good trade.

 

Although when an average Wild looks back and sees what players have been moved within a year (Zucker, Granlund, Coyle and Niederreiter, the four most promising forward prospects) you'd think the front office has zero clue what changes SHOULD take place. Well, 3 of those were on Fenton so Guerin has a pretty good record so far.

 

But yeah, I would be surprised to see Koivu getting an extension especially for a sizable amount of money.

To me the Zucker trade was more to make room for Kaprizov next season than getting younger and faster. He needs a top six wing spot, and at that point in time the top six wings were Parise (NMC), Zuccarello (NMC), Fiala (actually producing!) and Zucker (MNTC). 

Guerin can’t move two of them, and Fiala is younger and starting to put points up. That left Zucker as odd man out. 

[Hockey-78]

9 minutes ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

We don't know that...this organization has massively overpaid this guy on MULTIPLE contracts involving multiple GM's.  There is still time for this team to double-down and make another incredible mistake.  No real surprise the fragile ego of the captain comes into play that he doesn't waive his NMC to actually pursue a Stanley Cup.  That isn't honor or a want to stay with his team.  Its his selfish wish to be with just one team (I am sure his older brother Saku would've preferred that but didn't get it) so now he's going to get just that.  He knows his 'Angry Mikko' act won't play too well anywhere else but here.  

Maybe I could have worded it less straight forwardly... well, I definitely think he won't play for any other team since he didn't want to get traded to a playoff team.

 

He has three kids and is in the middle of a divorce process. Sounds to me that played a major factor in not wanting to be moved to anywhere else.

 

Obviously I'm not close to Guerin so I don't know what the heck he's thinking but since he asked Koivu to waive his clause I naturally thought he was unhappy with his on-ice performances. But...could he had in mind to trade Koivu and then sign another contract with him as a UFA? That would have been clever.

 

But since we all know Koivu isn't a team player he declined. So if BG is indeed happy with Koivu's level of play he now begs him to stay for another year...? A distinct, but A possibility I guess.

[Icechipper]

Koivu right now would slide nicely as a face off/penalty kill 3rd or4th line role on any number of playoff contenders. Thorton as well. Koivu can say he's not interested.... but the chance to join a team like Boston or St. Loius? Don't kid yourself. Could be his retirement payday. Economics says that there's a price point at which everything is possible. Koivu has been hurt but he's a horse when healthy. Family issues, yes, we all have them. Those are his. Not ours.....he's a hockey player, and he like his older brother, Saku, is a competitor.

Edited February 23, 2020 by Icechipper