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WordsOfWisdom

This is just getting embarrassing...

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The Leafs are finding ways to LOSE hockey games at the most critical juncture of the season. Every night it's a new way to squander two points.

 

Looking at the standings, I'm not sure what the Leafs think they're doing this season, or what they hope to achieve with this group. The team has been sloppy, even after the trade for Campbell and Clifford. Only in the NHL are we talking about the Leafs right now. If this were any other sport, the Leafs would be looking towards their upcoming golf season. It's only because of the NHL's ridiculous playoff model and loser points (can we call them "parity points"?) that there is even a discussion here.

 

What bothers me is that it's fake. It's contrived. I'm meant to care about this team "fighting for a playoff spot" in a league where everyone gets a playoff spot. It means NOTHING. If the Leafs get in, it means NOTHING. If they miss the playoffs, it means NOTHING. This team is an order of magnitude behind the elite teams in the East (Boston, Tampa, Washington, Pittsburgh, etc.). They're not even TOP 5 in their own conference, let alone the league. Why are we talking about the Leafs and the playoffs in the same sentence? What difference does it make if they manage to get there? Does anyone really believe this team can defeat Boston or Tampa?  The Leafs are a .500 hockey team. Nothing more. Nothing less.

 

Last season, the margin was closer. It was a better team. Toronto and Boston were more evenly matched. This season it's a blowout.  Boston and Tampa have run away with this sorry ass division. The NHL may care who lands in 3rd (Toronto, Florida, or Montreal) but I don't because they will be wiped out in 4 games by whoever they run into in round 1. My vision as a fan is not to see the Leafs make the playoffs. It's to see them win something. 

 

At some point you have to see this for what it is: a lost season. Of greater concern, you have to see this team for what it is: improperly built.

 

The Leafs had $45 mil in payroll on ONE LINE (Matthews, Marner, Tavares). One of those three guys has to GO before this team can ever be a top team in a salary cap league.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Podein25 said:

So, I'm guessing the parade is off at this point?

 

No parade. We burned all the floats and tore up all the city streets!  😲

 

I've mentioned this in prior threads so I won't rehash it too much, but to make the playoffs (in baseball for example) means that your team is one of the very best in the game, and you feel as though you could match up against anyone. In hockey, with 16 teams getting in, you wind up having multiple skill tiers within the playoff-bound teams. There's so much difference between a team like Boston and Toronto that you wouldn't even anticipate a match-up between the two teams, because Toronto hasn't earned that right. It would be analogous to being a boxer ranked 90th best in the world and getting a shot at the title. No, you come back when you're the #1 contender and then we'll talk about a shot at the title. 

 

I think a smart move the NHL could do would be to have a "cut line" 2/3 of the way through the season (sort of like how golf tournaments work). By the time you reach the end of February, you eliminate the bottom half of the teams. Their seasons come to an end. That way the pretenders are gone, and now you proceed to play out the last month of the regular season with the final 16 teams battling for playoff spots, of which there might be a total of 8 playoff spots let's say. So come April, the final cut occurs and the regular season ends. 

 

How would this be better?  It would create two playoff "races" per season essentially. The first race would be to make the first cut. Bubble teams like Toronto would be life or death to make that cut. If they made it, then the final month of the season becomes VERY exciting because now the remaining 16 teams battle for 8 spots... so instead of COASTING to game 82 (only battling over seed ranking), now the games mean something. So you have nightly games between the best remaining teams in the league ONLY. No lame duck games. Every night would be TOR vs PIT, TOR vs BOS, TOR vs TBL, TOR vs WSH, etc... It would be best on best for ALL OF MARCH.  Then you arrive at the REAL playoffs in April. 

 

:) 

Edited by WordsOfWisdom
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The whole league is weird this season. Leafs are still in a playoff spot.

 

Who was expecting Vancouver to be near the top of the west? Or Columbus to be near top of the east after losing Bob and Panarin?

 

Who was expecting Winnipeg, Nashville and San jose to suck this bad?

 

At least you get Ottawa, NJ and Detroit for easy points. on paper they were expected to be where they are.

 

The hard fall of the ducks and LA kings is hilarious to me but now I am joining them with a team on paper that should have been way better. With even league average goaltending the sharks are likely in a playoff spot. We have had league worst goaltending

Edited by J0e Th0rnton
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Stay positive.  All Toronto needs to do is make the playoffs.  Look what happened last post season.  All the favorites were eliminated early.  This season has been so difficult to predict!!! 

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Show some patience.  

 

We're still full of super young players and have been almost destroyed by injuries this year.  Don't look at a bad stretch and wring your little hands and cry & moan all the time.  This is what happens.  It's a process.

 

Jesus.

 

 

----

 

Let's skip the insults.

 

Edited by JR Ewing
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On 2/9/2020 at 10:45 AM, WordsOfWisdom said:

No parade. We burned all the floats and tore up all the city streets! 

 

Toronto:  the Vancouver of Ontario.

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2 hours ago, Holymakinaw said:

What's embarrassing, is reading lame threads like this by "up & down & up & down" dunce Leaf fans every year.

 

Show some patience.  

 

leafs-fan.jpg.d91ee8ff54642c8a37b251cbf7f6ae5c.jpg

 

2 hours ago, Holymakinaw said:

We're still full of super young players and have been almost destroyed by injuries this year.  Don't look at a bad stretch and wring your little hands and cry & moan all the time.  This is what happens.  It's a process.

 

Slight exaggeration don't you think?  We've had injury problems yes, but many teams go through injuries during a season. We've had most of our best players for most of the season. This is the reason why teams need to bank points early in the season and often. The Leafs had a really rotten start to the season and it had nothing to do with injury. They didn't take advantage of their good health and establish a lead in October/November/December. As a result, now they're fighting hard to grab points late in the season when they're most difficult to get.

 

My point is this:  The trade deadline is fast approaching. The GM needs to make a decision soon. BUY or SELL. I wrote in another thread that if I were GM, it would come down to the next two games (Ottawa and Buffalo). If I saw 4 points, I'm all in and would grab a defenceman for this team and make a go of it. If they come up lame against the Sens and Sabres (0 or 1 points), I'm a seller at the trade deadline, and looking to begin a mini-rebuild. Simple as that. 

 

 

Edited by WordsOfWisdom

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2 hours ago, Holymakinaw said:

What's embarrassing, is reading lame threads like this by "up & down & up & down" dunce Leaf fans every year.

 

Show some patience.  

 

We're still full of super young players and have been almost destroyed by injuries this year.  Don't look at a bad stretch and wring your little hands and cry & moan all the time.  This is what happens.  It's a process.

 

Jesus.

 

Jesus,.   Seriously though, the Leafs have not been injured worse -- and arguably less -- than teams they're looking up at.     They're not where they are because of injuries.  They're where they're at because, frankly, they're simply not that good.

 

Or that young.

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2 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

Slight exaggeration don't you think? 

 

Right up there with, "Obviously a major malfunction. We have no downlink" from the Space Shuttle Challenger Public Affairs Officer.

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Sorry, @WordsOfWisdom.  Not trying to pile on your team, but you seem to have a realistic take so basically just agreeing in light of "but the sun was in our eyes!" from others.

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4 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Jesus,.   Seriously though, the Leafs have not been injured worse -- and arguably less -- than teams they're looking up at.     They're not where they are because of injuries.  They're where they're at because, frankly, they're simply not that good.

 

Or that young.

 

It's also worth mentioning that if the Leafs played in the Metro division they would be 6th place. 

SIXTH!

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1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

Sorry, @WordsOfWisdom.  Not trying to pile on your team, but you seem to have a realistic take so basically just agreeing in light of "but the sun was in our eyes!" from others.

 

Yeah, as soon as someone starts their post by telling me that I need to "have patience" (as a Leafs fan) then I know it's either Kyle Dubas or Brenden Shanahan or someone employed by MLSE who is posting those messages under a fake name.  :) 

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The good news is that they DID beat Ottawa last night, so they grabbed the first 2 of 4 points in my pretend ultimatum as pretend GM of the team.  :) 

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2 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

The good news is that they DID beat Ottawa last night, so they grabbed the first 2 of 4 points in my pretend ultimatum as pretend GM of the team.  :) 

 

And you'll be pretending to be shocked when others pretend they're going to a parade.

 

I've been pretending the Flyers will have one almost as long.

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1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

 

Jesus,.   Seriously though, the Leafs have not been injured worse -- and arguably less -- than teams they're looking up at.     They're not where they are because of injuries.  They're where they're at because, frankly, they're simply not that good.

 

Or that young.

 

LMAO. 

 

The Leafs have lost almost 150 man-games to injury this season, and have had to do without many key guys.  Marner(top line player) was out a month.  Rielly(#1 D-Man) is currently out more than a month.  Starting Goalie missed a bunch of games.  Johnsson will miss two months.  Hyman, Dermott, blah, blah, blah.......they are never iced a completely healthy team this season.  Not one game.  We have so many guys injured long-term right now, that the team suddenly have 10.6 million available in cap space if they want, for the trade deadline.  That is significant at this time of year.......in a very bad way.  Only two players......Matthews & Barrie......have played in every game this year.  That's hurts a team, even if you try to slough it off.  

 

And not young, eh?  Lets look at many of our guys that we rely on for major minutes out there, all year long.

 

Sandin - 19

Liljegren - 20

Matthews - 22

Marner - 22

Nylander - 23

Kapanen - 23

Dermott - 23

Engvall - 23

Timashov - 23

Gauthier - 24

Johnsson - 25

Rielly - 25

Kerfoot - 25

Mikheyev - 25

 

Of course, not EVERY player is very young.  No one said that.  But this is 14 players 25 or under, and many are KEY guys(our entire top line is 22/22/23).

 

So yeah.  JESUS. 

 

Some moaning Leaf fans need to relax and see the bigger picture.  And stop writing idiotic threads about how embarassing it is they've been struggling.  Any team would struggle, given this.

Edited by Holymakinaw
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3 minutes ago, Holymakinaw said:

 

LMAO. 

 

The Leafs have lost almost 150 man-games to injury this season, and have had to do without many key guys.  Marner(top line player) was out a month.  Rielly(#1 D-Man) is currently out more than a month.  Starting Goalie missed a bunch of games.  Johnsson will miss two months.  Hyman, Dermott, blah, blah, blah.......they are never iced a completely healthy team this season.  Not one game.  We have so many guys injured long-term right now, that the team suddenly have 10.6 million available in cap space if they want, for the trade deadline.  That is significant at this time of year.......in a very bad way.  

 

And not young, eh?  Lets look at many of our guys that we rely on for major minutes out there, all year long.

 

Sandin - 19

Liljegren - 20

Matthews - 22

Marner - 22

Nylander - 23

Kapanen - 23

Dermott - 23

Engvall - 23

Timashov - 23

Gauthier - 24

Johnsson - 25

Rielly - 25

Kerfoot - 25

Mikheyev - 25

 

Of course, not EVERY player is very young.  No one said that.  But this is 14 players 25 or under, and many are KEY guys(our entire top line is 22/22/23).

 

So yeah.  JESUS. I

 

 

Some moaning Leaf fans need to relax and see the bigger picture.  And stop writing idiotic threads about how embarassing it is they've been struggling.  Any team would struggle, give enjoyn this.

Enjoy the parade.  You should have a very good seat. 

 

The homerism burns. 

 

No matter how many times you inexplicable say Jesus. 

 

 

Edited by ruxpin
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14 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Enjoy the parade.  You should have a very good seat. 

 

The homerism burns. 

 

Please don't flame other members.

 

Edited by JR Ewing

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6 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

The good news is that they DID beat Ottawa last night, so they grabbed the first 2 of 4 points in my pretend ultimatum as pretend GM of the team.  :) 

 

... and then proceeded to lay a turd against Buffalo today.  (No 10-game win streak for the Leafs.)

 

So based on my ultimatum, the Leafs grabbed 2 of a possible 4 points in two relatively easy games against non-playoff opposition and therefore I wouldn't be inclined to make any moves at the trade deadline that involved moving draft picks for rentals or other such nonsense -- because the team isn't showing me anything. I'd be one of the GMs who is standing pat. 

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On 2/9/2020 at 12:55 AM, WordsOfWisdom said:

The Leafs are finding ways to LOSE hockey games at the most critical juncture of the season. Every night it's a new way to squander two points.

 

Looking at the standings, I'm not sure what the Leafs think they're doing this season, or what they hope to achieve with this group. The team has been sloppy, even after the trade for Campbell and Clifford. Only in the NHL are we talking about the Leafs right now. If this were any other sport, the Leafs would be looking towards their upcoming golf season. It's only because of the NHL's ridiculous playoff model and loser points (can we call them "parity points"?) that there is even a discussion here.

 

What bothers me is that it's fake. It's contrived. I'm meant to care about this team "fighting for a playoff spot" in a league where everyone gets a playoff spot. It means NOTHING. If the Leafs get in, it means NOTHING. If they miss the playoffs, it means NOTHING. This team is an order of magnitude behind the elite teams in the East (Boston, Tampa, Washington, Pittsburgh, etc.). They're not even TOP 5 in their own conference, let alone the league. Why are we talking about the Leafs and the playoffs in the same sentence? What difference does it make if they manage to get there? Does anyone really believe this team can defeat Boston or Tampa?  The Leafs are a .500 hockey team. Nothing more. Nothing less.

 

Last season, the margin was closer. It was a better team. Toronto and Boston were more evenly matched. This season it's a blowout.  Boston and Tampa have run away with this sorry ass division. The NHL may care who lands in 3rd (Toronto, Florida, or Montreal) but I don't because they will be wiped out in 4 games by whoever they run into in round 1. My vision as a fan is not to see the Leafs make the playoffs. It's to see them win something. 

 

At some point you have to see this for what it is: a lost season. Of greater concern, you have to see this team for what it is: improperly built.

 

The Leafs had $45 mil in payroll on ONE LINE (Matthews, Marner, Tavares). One of those three guys has to GO before this team can ever be a top team in a salary cap league.

 

 

I usually hate Leaf fans. You are a rare exception. I commend you for keeping it real!

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I mean, the reality is that over the last 10 years, the #1 ranked team has won the Cup ONCE, and that was Chicago in the lockout year.

 

Over that period, it's been -

 

9th

7th

2nd

4th

7th

10th

1st (lockout)

12th

8th

3rd

 

Your regular season standing simply doesn't matter as much as many other factors - getting hot at the right time, getting the right matchups, no injuries, hot goaltending or a hot goal scorer, coaching, special teams being hot, luck, luck, and possibly some luck.

 

The median value is 7th, and average is 6th.

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41 minutes ago, brelic said:

I mean, the reality is that over the last 10 years, the #1 ranked team has won the Cup ONCE, and that was Chicago in the lockout year.

 

Over that period, it's been -

 

9th

7th

2nd

4th

7th

10th

1st (lockout)

12th

8th

3rd

 

Your regular season standing simply doesn't matter as much as many other factors - getting hot at the right time, getting the right matchups, no injuries, hot goaltending or a hot goal scorer, coaching, special teams being hot, luck, luck, and possibly some luck.

 

The median value is 7th, and average is 6th.

Solid points. The most important factor is dependable goaltending...then I think it moves to catching lightning in a bottle, like the Canes and Cam Ward did. They might win the cup 1 out of 20 replays...it just all fell in place...almost like fate prodded on by tenacity...lol.

 

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1 hour ago, jammer2 said:

it just all fell in place...almost like fate prodded on by tenacity...lol.

...and ordained by the league office.

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2 hours ago, brelic said:

I mean, the reality is that over the last 10 years, the #1 ranked team has won the Cup ONCE, and that was Chicago in the lockout year.

 

But that's always going to be the case because it's 1/16 odds for that to happen. If you finish the regular season with 111 points, you know there's going to be a team with 110 right behind you, and someone with 108, 106, etc... There isn't much difference (usually) among the top teams in the standings, but there is an upper "tier" of teams that you need to be in if you want to win (again, usually).

 

In the NHL, it's pretty clear that you need to be at least a TOP 10 team, even though 16 get in. It's pretty safe to say that you need to be in the TOP 8 to have a realistic chance to win a Cup. 

 

In the NHL, there are teams who make the playoffs with a legitimate chance of winning the Cup. (That's the TOP 8.) The other 8 teams are the .500 teams who have no serious chance of winning the Cup except by fluke/total ineptitude by opponent/exceptional luck/no injuries, etc. Their chance of winning is like the lotto 649 player's "chance" of winning. The job of the bottom 8 teams is to be a "good tuneup opponent" (like a sparring partner) to prepare the elite teams for what lies ahead. When they win, it usually makes fans outside that city angry because that's not the team people wanted to see in the next round. For max $$$ and max fan interest, you want the two best teams meeting in the final. 

 

:) 

 

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1 hour ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

It's pretty safe to say that you need to be in the TOP 8 to have a realistic chance to win a Cup.


In the 10 year sample I posted, that’s simply not true. 4/10 cups were won by teams ranked 8th or lower. 
 

It would be interesting to see a 25 year sample. I suspect the further back you go, the more likely it is that a top 4 team wins simply because of the way the NHL has changed over the years. 
 

1 hour ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

The other 8 teams are the .500 teams who have no serious chance of winning the Cup except by fluke/total ineptitude by opponent/exceptional luck/no injuries, etc. Their chance of winning is like the lotto 649 player's "chance" of winning. The job of the bottom 8 teams is to be a "good tuneup opponent" (like a sparring partner) to prepare the elite teams for what lies ahead.


Disagree for many reasons, but primarily, because you are bringing a normative viewpoint to an empirical situation. 
 

1 hour ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

you want the two best teams meeting in the final.


They already do :)

Edited by brelic

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