This is just getting embarrassing...

[WordsOfWisdom]

6 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

To make matters worse...1-0 to the Kings??? Wow.

 

It's as though they play DOWN to the level of their opposition. Very frustrating. The Leafs were on a 3-game winning streak heading out west to face San Jose, LA, and Anaheim, the three worst teams out there. This should have been 6 points for Toronto and instead they've managed only one. 

 

They can't seem to score 4-5 goals in a game unless they give up 6. Here was a game that should have been 5-0 Toronto, but it never happens. For all the elite scorers on this team, they NEVER blow anyone out. Ever.   

[flyercanuck]

5 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

It's as though they play DOWN to the level of their opposition. Very frustrating. The Leafs were on a 3-game winning streak heading out west to face San Jose, LA, and Anaheim, the three worst teams out there. This should have been 6 points for Toronto and instead they've managed only one. 

 

   

 

 In fairness to your Leafs that west coast trip is a freakin Bermuda Triangle.

[WordsOfWisdom]

19 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 In fairness to your Leafs that west coast trip is a freakin Bermuda Triangle.

 

Yeah normally those are the three toughest teams in the East. Looks like they still are. 

 

Here's the other thing that gets me: The shootout. When a team has elite finishers like the Leafs do, you would think Toronto would dominate in shootouts. But it doesn't happen. You could have a team with Mario Lemieux, Alex Ovechkin, and Pavel Bure, and roll those three guys out there in the shootout and I could counter with Kyle Clifford, Codi Ceci, and Martin Marincin, and have just as good a chance at winning. It makes no sense. Elite talent doesn't translate to more wins in the shootout. It's just a coin toss finish to the game, exactly as the league wants it. 

 

 

 

[flyercanuck]

8 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

Yeah normally those are the three toughest teams in the East. Looks like they still are. 

 

Here's the other thing that gets me: The shootout. When a team has elite finishers like the Leafs do, you would think Toronto would dominate in shootouts. But it doesn't happen. You could have a team with Mario Lemieux, Alex Ovechkin, and Pavel Bure, and roll those three guys out there in the shootout and I could counter with Kyle Clifford, Codi Ceci, and Martin Marincin, and have just as good a chance at winning. It makes no sense. Elite talent doesn't translate to more wins in the shootout. It's just a coin toss finish to the game, exactly as the league wants it. 

 

 

 

 

To quote a certain poster from New Mexico....I ****** hate the shootout! 

[WordsOfWisdom]

WHERE IS THE LEAFS OFFENCE ON THIS WEST COAST TRIP???

• 2 goals vs Sharks
• 0 goals vs Kings
• 0 goals vs Ducks

 

Someone send out a search party!!!  The Leafs forwards are missing!!!  

Edited March 7, 2020 by WordsOfWisdom

[ruxpin]

18 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

WHERE IS THE LEAFS OFFENCE ON THIS WEST COAST TRIP???

• 2 goals vs Sharks
• 0 goals vs Kings
• 0 goals vs Ducks

 

Someone send out a search party!!!  The Leafs forwards are missing!!!  

It's okay. The Leafs core is apparently still going through puberty.  Consistency (and, often, a deeper voice) will come afterward. 

[WordsOfWisdom]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

It's okay. The Leafs core is apparently still going through puberty.  Consistency (and, often, a deeper voice) will come afterward. 

 

They're really about to lose 2-0 to the Ducks right now..... 

 

 

EDIT: OMG, a goal! 

 

EDIT x 2:  

Edited March 7, 2020 by WordsOfWisdom

[hobie]

Another frustrating game, TO couldn't score against a bottom feeding team and this team didn't have it's 4 best d-men?

 

Well we're finally seeing TO become a defensive dynamo that many have been lusting for, 7 goals against in the last 3 games a 2.33 GA, fun.

 

I don't get Keefe, when he first started coaching and saw nothing was working he'd change things up, he's far more reluctant now. Obviously he wants TO to be a defensive dynamo because he certainly didn't mix things up tonite and thru this road trip. Changing up Malgin and Engvall doesn't count.

 

The lines are stale, that was obvious Monday, Thursday and again today yet like Babs we saw the same old, same old, that was one of my major sore points with Babs.

 

Malgin, Engvall, Kappy plus others aren't top 2 line quality players as we have seen, I think Spezza would provide far more value there.

There are still lots of potentially different and perhaps more productive lines I'd like Keefe to try. The bottom 2 lines can basically stay the same, who cares.

 

Hy/AM/Spezza

 

Ny/JT/MM

 

I wouldn't want Nylander and AM on the same line because I like what we're seeing from Ny, when he played with AM he seemed to spend all of his time trying to set up AM now he's a scoring machine and pretty dynamic every game, mostly. AM managed to get 73 points in 68 games last year and that was mostly with Kappy and Johnsson as his wingers, when AM is on he's a force on his on, when he's not on I don't think it matters who he plays with.

[WordsOfWisdom]

6 hours ago, hobie said:

Another frustrating game, TO couldn't score against a bottom feeding team and this team didn't have it's 4 best d-men?

 

I think the core of this team is about to be jettisoned over the summer. Dubas is just letting things play out the rest of the season, but I'm sure his mind is already made up as far as this group not being good enough. They've had several tries at it already and they're not improving. Individually, some of the players have improved, but collectively they haven't. With the exception of Matthews, I don't see anyone else who is secure for next season.

 

6 hours ago, hobie said:

Well we're finally seeing TO become a defensive dynamo that many have been lusting for, 7 goals against in the last 3 games a 2.33 GA, fun.

 

Although it was his first game back, Ceci looked bad in this one. Standing around puck watching. Also, the Leafs D have a tendency to drift out from the net, as though they were drifting out to challenge the point shot but without going out nearly that far. What happens then is opposing forwards just slide in behind them and score. If you're a defenceman, you don't need to drift out 30 ft from the net when your team is under pressure. Stay put in the slot. The forwards are coming to you, not the other way around. The Leafs D do a great job of moving themselves out of position and leaving the goalie to fend for himself. 

 

6 hours ago, hobie said:

I wouldn't want Nylander and AM on the same line because I like what we're seeing from Ny, when he played with AM he seemed to spend all of his time trying to set up AM now he's a scoring machine and pretty dynamic every game, mostly. AM managed to get 73 points in 68 games last year and that was mostly with Kappy and Johnsson as his wingers, when AM is on he's a force on his on, when he's not on I don't think it matters who he plays with.

 

Last season Tavares would step up in games like this and be able to carry the Leafs to a win when the other forwards were having an off night. It hasn't happened much this season. They're not getting the secondary scoring any more and are quickly dropping down the list of teams offensively.  If it's not Matthews or Nylander, it seems like nobody else is doing their part. 

[flyercanuck]

8 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

Last season Tavares would step up in games like this and be able to carry the Leafs to a win when the other forwards were having an off night. It hasn't happened much this season. They're not getting the secondary scoring any more and are quickly dropping down the list of teams offensively.  If it's not Matthews or Nylander, it seems like nobody else is doing their part. 

 

You know what you guys need?

 

JVR

[hobie]

2 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

I think the core of this team is about to be jettisoned over the summer. Dubas is just letting things play out the rest of the season, but I'm sure his mind is already made up as far as this group not being good enough. They've had several tries at it already and they're not improving. Individually, some of the players have improved, but collectively they haven't. With the exception of Matthews, I don't see anyone else who is secure for next season.

 

 

Although it was his first game back, Ceci looked bad in this one. Standing around puck watching. Also, the Leafs D have a tendency to drift out from the net, as though they were drifting out to challenge the point shot but without going out nearly that far. What happens then is opposing forwards just slide in behind them and score. If you're a defenceman, you don't need to drift out 30 ft from the net when your team is under pressure. Stay put in the slot. The forwards are coming to you, not the other way around. The Leafs D do a great job of moving themselves out of position and leaving the goalie to fend for himself. 

 

 

Last season Tavares would step up in games like this and be able to carry the Leafs to a win when the other forwards were having an off night. It hasn't happened much this season. They're not getting the secondary scoring any more and are quickly dropping down the list of teams offensively.  If it's not Matthews or Nylander, it seems like nobody else is doing their part. 

 

TO went thru this last year, TO lost to Arizona and they had 10 or 11 regulars hurt, TO lost to Ottawa after Ottawa had traded away Karlsson and Stone. I think this is a case of the players trying to buy into what Keefe and previously Babs are trying to instill, defense wins.

 

This is a case of too little too late, it's not a good time to fundamentally change how the team plays.

 

TO plated poorly from Xmas on last year.

 

I agree changes are probably likely but those will probably involve players like Kerfoot, Kappy, Ceci but the core of forwards and Rielly, Muzzin, Andersen will be back. That does make sense because TO could/should be better with a healthier lineup.  

 

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

51 minutes ago, hobie said:

I think this is a case of the players trying to buy into what Keefe and previously Babs are trying to instill, defense wins.

 

This is a case of too little too late, it's not a good time to fundamentally change how the team plays.

 

Agreed. Trying to implement a different style of play (if that's what they're doing) this late in a season is a really bad idea.

 

However, I'm going to chalk this up to great goaltending and the offence drying up at the same time. I'm not sure the team was actually playing better defensively at all (given the strength of their opposition). Anaheim had their way with Toronto until the 3rd period for example. If they want credit for good defensive play, they're going to have to reduce the number of shots they're allowing.   

 

 

[hobie]

TO is having scoring problems lately yet Keefe wants to go to the empty well constantly?

 

Kerfoot and his nearly 15 minutes per game gets elevated to the second line to supposedly stimulate both himself and that line offensively. On top of that he has been on that line on and off frequently during the season and he gets that reward because he has managed 9 goals and 19 assists for a grand total of 28 points in 65 games.

 

When Kerfoot isn't elevated Kappy gets called, now he has been more successful offensively this year than Kerfoot but he really hasn't taken advantage, his stats 13 goals, 23 assists for 36 points on 16 minutes TOI average per game.

 

TO trades for a hot shot who also gets an immediate shot at the 2nd line. It doesn't matter that he had been used as a 4th liner on his previous team, he was frequently benched, he somehow deserved a shot at the 4th line. So far this year Malgin has managed an awe inspiring 4 goals and 8 assist for 12 points in 44 games off of an average TOI of 12 minutes.

 

Meanwhile TO has a player that has 9 goals and 16 assists for 25 points off of 11 minutes average TOI. This same player never gets to the 1st or 2nd line except in very special circumstances, so rarely, and this player is often benched so he has only played in 58 games.

 

My question is why keep going to players that can't elevate their game, can't take advantage of unearned opportunities when a possible answer to some of TO's scoring isn't being given any consideration. Why not elevate Spezza, if Malgin of all players was worthy of a shot. Forest/trees anyone. 

[WordsOfWisdom]

On 3/11/2020 at 11:27 PM, hobie said:

Meanwhile TO has a player that has 9 goals and 16 assists for 25 points off of 11 minutes average TOI. This same player never gets to the 1st or 2nd line except in very special circumstances, so rarely, and this player is often benched so he has only played in 58 games.

 

My question is why keep going to players that can't elevate their game, can't take advantage of unearned opportunities when a possible answer to some of TO's scoring isn't being given any consideration. Why not elevate Spezza, if Malgin of all players was worthy of a shot. Forest/trees anyone. 

 

Probably an age thing I guess?  Spezza is here for the moment but the other guys are the future (potentially).  The team wants to see them develop rather than watch Spezza decline. 

 

Since the season is now over, who do you think has played their last game in Toronto?  

[hobie]

I think Barrie will be gone, not because he needs to go, TO simply can't afford him. Since Babs was dismissed he's been scoring at nearly a point per game.

 

Ceci might be gone but again it would be an affordability issue. He's not a $4.5 mil. player, he's not perfect but I doubt there aren't a few teams that would/will sign him for 2 to 2.5 mil per. Babs stubbornly stuck with him with Rielly when he wasn't suited to play against the opposition's best, this diminished him in the eyes of fans and media so he's now a target, someone to blame in bad times. He's a 5 or 6 d-man on most teams maybe even a 4 if paired well.

 

I don't see the value in Clifford, I don't think he's worth TO giving up a 2nd because as that trade is now TO keeps it's 2nd but gives up it's 3rd if he isn't resigned. I don't like his propensity to take ill timed penalties and I don't think he's worth more than 1 mil. per season. I see the rumors are that TO wants to resign him? I'm sure he'll be looking for more money and at $1.6 mil. per he's already overpaid.

 

Kerfoot, Johnsson and Kappy are rumored to be available for a d upgrade but I wonder what team would be willing to give up a quality, top 4 d-man for any of them.

 

Dubas made that surprising Kadri/Barrie & Kerfoot trade so it might be an interesting summer.