Ghost to Montreal?

[King Knut]

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 Bingo!

 

 The guy was excellent at getting into passing lanes and breaking up plays with his stick. Being non-physical was another reason I believe....though most goal scorers don't hit much.

 

I'll say this for Carter, he sure as hell started to hit for the Kings.  Dude threw himself around to break up plays and create chaos entering the O-zone like a little tiny bit not unlike Lindros during both of their cup runs.  It was impressive.  

 

Wish he could have done a little more of that here, but then again, that might be the difference between Sutter's approach and Stevens' & Laviolette's approaches.  

 

Stevens was all about shutting down passing lanes and Lavvy was all about forechecking pressure and both systems were monsters on the transition.  Neither was very big on physicality.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2020 by King Knut

[mkscrewy]

this whole thread was derailed by my one reference to a tired, old (and ultimately disproven) joke.

 

oops, haha.

[Podein25]

8 minutes ago, mkscrewy said:

this whole thread was derailed by my one reference to a tired, old (and ultimately disproven) joke.

 

oops, haha.

 

We all have a role to play here!

[OccamsRazor]

45 minutes ago, mkscrewy said:

this whole thread was derailed by my one reference to a tired, old (and ultimately disproven) joke.

 

oops, haha.

 

What joke was that I must have missed it?

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

RE: Carter...if only he had a max effort face, Philly would have loved him.

 

I was a person who called people out for hating Carter too. 

This fan bases ability to turn on their top guys is nothing new...hell I remember my 2nd NHL game in Pgh when the Flyers fans were pissed at Bobby Clarke and wanted to trade him for Brian ****** Spencer...Clarke was a healthy scratch and everyone of my uncle's friends were like that's it Clarke's outta here....good riddance. 

I get not being such a homer but, Philly's relationship to its best players is ****** ridiculously disfunctional.

What you call dysfunctional, I call passionate. Philly fans pour their heart and soul into supporting their sports teams, and they expect the players to give the same effort. The city is filled with hard working people that know whats its like to sacrifice and fight and to make things work. That is the demographic a player represents when they come to this town. They want their athletes, who they would embrace as family if given the chance, to represent what they are as a community. You want to be a superstar in Philly, you better put on your big boy pants.

 

You mention Bobby Clarke. I know what you are saying to be true, but if it was so horrible and dysfunctional, why has the guy, like so many other players, still a part of the franchise. Carter himself has even said it, "he loved Philly"

[flyercanuck]

10 minutes ago, CoachX said:

What you call dysfunctional, I call passionate. Philly fans pour their heart and soul into supporting their sports teams, and they expect the players to give the same effort. The city is filled with hard working people that know whats its like to sacrifice and fight and to make things work.

 

 So it's like every other city in every other country on the planet? Except the part where some fans, and the media try to run players out of town.

 

10 minutes ago, CoachX said:

That is the demographic a player represents when they come to this town. They want their athletes, who they would embrace as family if given the chance, to represent what they are as a community. You want to be a superstar in Philly, you better put on your big boy pants.

 

 Carter was never a superstar. He never thought he was...and was never paid like one.

 

10 minutes ago, CoachX said:

 

You mention Bobby Clarke. I know what you are saying to be true, but if it was so horrible and dysfunctional, why has the guy, like so many other players, still a part of the franchise. Carter himself has even said it, "he loved Philly"

 

 

 I agree.

[mojo1917]

31 minutes ago, CoachX said:

What you call dysfunctional, I call passionate. Philly fans pour their heart and soul into supporting their sports teams, and they expect the players to give the same effort. The city is filled with hard working people that know whats its like to sacrifice and fight and to make things work. That is the demographic a player represents when they come to this town. They want their athletes, who they would embrace as family if given the chance, to represent what they are as a community. You want to be a superstar in Philly, you better put on your big boy pants.

 

You mention Bobby Clarke. I know what you are saying to be true, but if it was so horrible and dysfunctional, why has the guy, like so many other players, still a part of the franchise. Carter himself has even said it, "he loved Philly"

Okay, for starters with the Clarke story I was 7 maybe 8, he was the Flyer I knew about, him and Bernie Parent.

Why on earth would regular Joe fans want to trade the greatest player in the history of the franchise for a stiff ?

Spinners was never that good, in fact that night at the Igloo the Pens fans were flipping him off and throwing **** at him. 

It was baffling to an 8 year old and now with many years of hindsight, monumentally stupid, trade the face of the franchise for a guy who's own fans hated?...and my uncle and his buddies were good with it ? 

 

I can't speak for why Clarke loves the city, I can guess because he won two cups and is revered might have something to do with it.

 

I understand booing Mike Schmidt, the third person act blew then and blows today, still - has there been a better 3rd baseman in the history of the game ? 

 

I think the mentality you speak of is counter productive.

You seem to embrace it and that explains a lot to me about  why you and I don't see things the same way. 

 

 

 

 

[CoachX]

21 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Okay, for starters with the Clarke story I was 7 maybe 8, he was the Flyer I knew about, him and Bernie Parent.

Why on earth would regular Joe fans want to trade the greatest player in the history of the franchise for a stiff ?

Spinners was never that good, in fact that night at the Igloo the Pens fans were flipping him off and throwing **** at him. 

It was baffling to an 8 year old and now with many years of hindsight, monumentally stupid, trade the face of the franchise for a guy who's own fans hated?...and my uncle and his buddies were good with it ? 

 

I can't speak for why Clarke loves the city, I can guess because he won two cups and is revered might have something to do with it.

 

I understand booing Mike Schmidt, the third person act blew then and blows today, still - has there been a better 3rd baseman in the history of the game ? 

 

I think the mentality you speak of is counter productive.

You seem to embrace it and that explains a lot to me about  why you and I don't see things the same way. 

 

 

 

 

Why would a fan call for the trade of Bobby Clarke? For the same reason some are calling for the trade of Giroux now. When you emotions get the best of you, your amygdala hijacks your brain and you end up thinking irrationally. Its kind of like trying to stay rational when your significant other has done something stupid and you cant get it through their head that they are wrong. Passsion=emotion=fan reacttion

 

Clarke loves Philly, like so may other athletes who have played there, because they part of it. They were embraced, loved hated, revered, criticized, and always remembered. Schmidt is a great example. Greatest 3b of all time and philly knows it. However, he was subjected to it just like Clarke. Lindros was another. Loved at first, hated, then discarded. Now, loved again

 

Im not sure  what is counter productive about passionate fans loving/hating any player they root for. Its their prerogative. If JVR goes on a tear and ends up scoring 20+ goals thee rest of the season, he will beloved again. Thats how it is in Philly. If you choose to have happy-happy, joy-joy optimistic feelings about all things Flyers, thats your prerogative. 

 

I do embrace it. Thats why 30 years after moving away, Im still a die hard Philly fan. I wouldn't want it any other way

 

 

 

[brelic]

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

 

I never understood the partying thing.  

If it gets in the way of games or practice or their overall health, then the coach or management needed to step in, but otherwise, these are 20-something kids most of whom never went to college or lived in a city with any kind of a "scene".   

 

Showing up hung over all the time and hence reducing your efficacy was a player is a problem and if the team can't keep an eye on that or step in with corrective measures, then that's really on the organization IMHO.

 

But people seem to get jealous that Richards and Carter got to party and get it on with attractive young women... which... come on, really?

 

Apparently Doughty is quite the partier. He showed up super hungover for the Olympic gold medal game in Vancouver (Richards mentioned that on Spittin' Chiclets).

 

Don't remember ever hearing any criticism about him.

 

[CoachX]

1 minute ago, brelic said:

 

Apparently Doughty is quite the partier. He showed up super hungover for the Olympic gold medal game in Vancouver (Richards mentioned that on Spittin' Chiclets).

 

Don't remember ever hearing any criticism about him.

 

he didnt play for the Flyers

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Apparently Doughty is quite the partier. He showed up super hungover for the Olympic gold medal game in Vancouver (Richards mentioned that on Spittin' Chiclets).

 

Don't remember ever hearing any criticism about him.

 

 

Los Angeles is a much, much different town.

[King Knut]

3 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Apparently Doughty is quite the partier. He showed up super hungover for the Olympic gold medal game in Vancouver (Richards mentioned that on Spittin' Chiclets).

 

Don't remember ever hearing any criticism about him.

 

 

Folks in LA might be a little more used to young punks having more money and getting more **** than they do.

[mojo1917]

53 minutes ago, brelic said:

Apparently Doughty is quite the partier. He showed up super hungover for the Olympic gold medal game in Vancouver (Richards mentioned that on Spittin' Chiclets).

I heard that too, he is apparently a legendary partier.

The legend goes he went straight from partying to the game.

That was a great episode of that podcast.

 

[flyercanuck]

56 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Apparently Doughty is quite the partier. He showed up super hungover for the Olympic gold medal game in Vancouver (Richards mentioned that on Spittin' Chiclets).

 

Don't remember ever hearing any criticism about him.

 

 

Sometimes you just play better hungover. I can't explain it. And certainly don't condone it. But sometimes...it just works.

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

Im not sure  what is counter productive about passionate fans loving/hating any player they root for. Its their prerogative.

Second part is fine you're right it is the fan's perogative.

 

Here's where I think its counter productive.  When was the last time something bad happened in a Flyers/Sixers/Eagles/Phillies game and the fans shook it off and tried to lift the team ?

In my life I cannot remember that happening.  The fans  are all waiting for the next bad thing to happen because, "those guys are trash" or "they're wishing they could be down the shore banging drexel girls".  

I've seen teams from other cities get behind their teams and lift them, it makes me jealous. 

 

The mentality seems to me to be one of waiting for the other shoe to drop and never our boys can pull through this. 

 

Hey look, we can root for the same team in our own way, you do you, that's fine.  

Edited February 14, 2020 by mojo1917

[CoachX]

28 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

When was the last time something bad happened in a Flyers/Sixers/Eagles/Phillies game and the fans shook it off and tried to lift the team ?

Ask Santa Claus.

 

Seriously, You ever watch a game in the Spectrum?

 

Fans arent responsible for lifting teams. I dont hold some magic power where I can watch a game and will Giroux to score by rooting for him. Im not a jedi. I also cant affect the outcome by posting some positive thoughts. Only Ruxpin and Pods have that power, and they are stingy about it  however, the hockey arena used to rock nightly. If it doesn't anymore, its because the team isn't an attraction or that exciting. I don't see any Flyer players coming out saying "our fans suck. if they were more positive and supportive, we could play better". If the seats are empty there are two reasons, the team sucks, or the prices are too high. its never the latter. There was a time when the Flyers sold out nightly, and good luck finding seats to an Eagles game.

 

As for the fans waiting for the next bad thing, ha ha ha, thats called a habit. We are used to it by now in Philly. Remember the Phillies have the most losses for a MLB franchise at 10551

 

[brelic]

1 minute ago, CoachX said:

I don't see any Flyer players coming out saying "our fans suck. if they were more positive and supportive, we could play better"

 

Um, Giroux said exactly that.

[CoachX]

shocker!

 

that makes sense

[mojo1917]

18 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Seriously, You ever watch a game in the Spectrum?

I was pretty young, I saw the Sixers once and the Flyers once.

The fanbase has changed and become far more cynical since the early 80's late 70's IMO

I saw Dr J fill the lane for a dunk, maybe the best pro sports moment of my life. The place went bananas.

 

As for fans holding a magic power, I guess you've never been to comedy show or a great rock concert where the energy lifts everyone's spirits.

That's too bad if you haven't, it can be a great feeling.  I've also been to shows where the music 'caused fights to break out all over the club. 

You're not paying attention if you don't think crowds have power.  

I also don't believe you don't recognize this given your profession. 

 

 

[radoran]

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

Fans arent responsible for lifting teams.

 

They're not responsible but they can certainly play a role.

 

For example, I don't think the 1980 Olympic team wins that game in Moscow - or, likely, in any other country.

 

You get a great crowd behind you and your game can elevate and the other team's can be affected. Obviously, it doesn't always work. And teams do have to earn that from their fanbase. It's not at all a one way street. You can't be a consistently uninspiring team and think that the fans should be behind you.

 

That said, Philadelphia fans are informed by the ~100 seasons of the Curse of Billy Penn. And there are still stories about the 1964 Phillies.

 

But I did hear comments about the Super Bowl to the effect that people here liked Andy Reid still because there's a generation that grew up with an actually competitive Eagles team as opposed to some of the dreck of the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s... For that matter, the Birds from 1950 through 1970 had only the 1960 Championship. Then from 1970 to 1990 they had 7 playoff appearances and won three playoff games (two coming in 1980).

 

Ah, my childhood...

[elmatus]

17 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

Detroit had a fantastic run from the early 90's up until a few years ago.  Boston's run however, never ends. They were great before Detroit became great. They were great the whole time Detroit was great, and Boston is still great now. They may not cash in on too many Cups, but I think Boston holds the NHL record for most playoff appearances and their lifetime win-loss record is second only to Montreal... and they'll pass Montreal in that soon too. In another 10 years or so, Boston will move into #1 all time because they finish an average of 20 points ahead of Montreal in the standings every year. 

  

 

This is two years old, but it may be of interest to you. I found it interesting anyway: https://thehockeywriters.com/top-ten-nhl-playoff-making-teams/

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

I was pretty young, I saw the Sixers once and the Flyers once.

The fanbase has changed and become far more cynical since the early 80's late 70's IMO

I saw Dr J fill the lane for a dunk, maybe the best pro sports moment of my life. The place went bananas.

 

As for fans holding a magic power, I guess you've never been to comedy show or a great rock concert where the energy lifts everyone's spirits.

That's too bad if you haven't, it can be a great feeling.  I've also been to shows where the music 'caused fights to break out all over the club. 

You're not paying attention if you don't think crowds have power.  

I also don't believe you don't recognize this given your profession. 

 

 

So does being in the middle of a downtown riot in Albuquerque,  during a presidential rally count?

 

Yeah, i know all about it. I get your point. I elluded to it by referencing how things were back in the Spectrum days. Those days are gone, not because the fans have changed, but because the on ice product has

 

If a guy like NAK continues to play a high energy game, hits people a little more and drops the gloves more often, he will win the crowd and we can call him Maximus the Gladiator.

 

Its more on the players than us

[mojo1917]

@CoachX

 

2 things

1. that Santa had it coming. ( forgot to post that earlier) 

2. Can't argue that the product has been superior recently. 

 

But it's better than it has been. the team under Hakstol was boring to watch, this group isn't- so that's a start. 

[CoachX]

9 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@CoachX

 

2 things

1. that Santa had it coming. ( forgot to post that earlier) 

2. Can't argue that the product has been superior recently. 

 

But it's better than it has been. the team under Hakstol was boring to watch, this group isn't- so that's a start. 

Guess what? We agree. This is a better group and my expectations and interest has started to come back

 

Heres the thing though...the other night, that friggin Barzal guy was a wizard. Id like to see a flyer generate the same excitement

[jammer2]

Ghost for Domi plz! Would guarantee a visit from Max and Tie (my roommate is Tie's first cousin).