Ghost to Montreal?

[radoran]

3 hours ago, jammer2 said:

Ghost for Domi plz! Would guarantee a visit from Max and Tie (my roommate is Tie's first cousin).

 

So you didn't need a toaster, then?

 

I think I've made that joke before...

 

[OccamsRazor]

On 2/13/2020 at 10:10 AM, WordsOfWisdom said:

All I'm saying is make the best trade you can make

 

See should have traded Johnsson while you could have now Kapanen has taken him out in practice and he is done for the year.

 

Now down one less trade asset.

[WordsOfWisdom]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

See should have traded Johnsson while you could have now Kapanen has taken him out in practice and he is done for the year.

 

Now down one less trade asset.

 

Well that's always the risk when the GM doesn't address team weaknesses early and decisively. The closer it gets to the trade deadline, the more difficult it is for Toronto to find what they're looking for. 

 

Depending on how the Leafs play against Ottawa and Buffalo (next two games) I'd do the following (if I were GM):

• 4 points gained: Go out and acquire a defenceman. Make a go of it this season. (Team is showing me something.)
• 2-3 points gained: Stand pat. Re-evaluate in the summer.
• 0-1 point gained: Sell at the trade deadline. Begin a mini-rebuild.

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

Well that's always the risk when the GM doesn't address team weaknesses early and decisively. The closer it gets to the trade deadline, the more difficult it is for Toronto to find what they're looking for. 

 

Depending on how the Leafs play against Ottawa and Buffalo (next two games) I'd do the following (if I were GM):

• 4 points gained: Go out and acquire a defenceman. Make a go of it this season. (Team is showing me something.)
• 2-3 points gained: Stand pat. Re-evaluate in the summer.
• 0-1 point gained: Sell at the trade deadline. Begin a mini-rebuild.

 

 

I see Dillion for the Sharks is on the block maybe he is the type you guys need only a rental and I'm not sure what the asking price will be but I seen him linked to you guys.

[brelic]

3 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

Well that's always the risk when the GM doesn't address team weaknesses early and decisively. The closer it gets to the trade deadline, the more difficult it is for Toronto to find what they're looking for. 

 

Depending on how the Leafs play against Ottawa and Buffalo (next two games) I'd do the following (if I were GM):

• 4 points gained: Go out and acquire a defenceman. Make a go of it this season. (Team is showing me something.)
• 2-3 points gained: Stand pat. Re-evaluate in the summer.
• 0-1 point gained: Sell at the trade deadline. Begin a mini-rebuild.

 

 

That seems kind of crazy, no? The only team they really have to watch for is Florida. Also, you're welcome for this past week

 

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I see Dillion for the Sharks is on the block maybe he is the type you guys need only a rental and I'm not sure what the asking price will be but I seen him linked to you guys.

 

I'm fine with rental players so long as the team doesn't give up anyone of value from the current roster or a first round draft pick. Rental players (on a playoff bubble team) are borderline worthless. We might yet find ourselves in the draft lottery and we better have a first round pick if that happens. 

 

A team like Boston or Tampa would grab a rental player to put themselves over the top, but the Leafs are not that team. We can't start doing that here. This team still needs some serious building through the draft to get to where it needs to be.

 

 

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

2 hours ago, brelic said:

 

That seems kind of crazy, no? The only team they really have to watch for is Florida. Also, you're welcome for this past week

 

 

 

Maybe both the Leafs and Flyers will make the playoffs this season. Intriguing...   

 

I think we're at the point in the season leading up to the deadline where the team needs to show the GM that they're for real.

 

If they can't pull 4 points out of two hopeless teams (Ottawa, Buffalo) after their recent slide, I would say this team isn't a legitimate playoff contender and I would see no reason why I should be trying to acquire a defenceman for a team that needs a lot more help than just that. I'd be more concerned with starting over with a new group of players and moving some guys out. Keep Matthews and Marner, but everyone else would be on the trade block and I'd grab as many first round picks as I could.

 

[OccamsRazor]

No matter what they do I hope Chuckles is keeping some of the info on Patrick closer to the vest when it comes to the deadline and roster moves.

 

Considering who they should callup before the deadline and roster setting takes place, since they are only allowed 4 recalls for the remaining regular season after the deadline.

 

Patrick possible availability will influence all of this for sure.

 

If he isn't going to be ready I think it would suit the Flyers if they have to consider some depth move it should be for center depth.

 

Would the Senatord move a Chris Tierney for Ghost and a pick?

 

Or Ghost and Vorobyev??

 

Hhhhhhmmmmmm...

[mojo1917]

On 2/14/2020 at 4:57 PM, CoachX said:

that friggin Barzal guy was a wizard.

yes, that was something to see...it would be great to have that guy on our side.

[mojo1917]

23 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

No matter what they do I hope Chuckles is keeping some of the info on Patrick closer to the vest when it comes to the deadline and roster moves.

 

Considering who they should callup before the deadline and roster setting takes place, since they are only allowed 4 recalls for the remaining regular season after the deadline.

 

Patrick possible availability will influence all of this for sure.

 

If he isn't going to be ready I think it would suit the Flyers if they have to consider some depth move it should be for center depth.

 

Would the Senatord move a Chris Tierney for Ghost and a pick?

 

Or Ghost and Vorobyev??

 

Hhhhhhmmmmmm...

interesting twitter discussion that I read over the weekend about Melnyck always being a cheap ass.

 

That team has some speed and some good, young, hard to play against, players. Some people were saying this is the group where the owner is going to pay guys market value and keep the group together plus they were touting the organization's depth because I guess the AHL team has been good..another faction was saying get ready to lose a bunch of RFAs because the ownership won't pay and they'll use the AHL depth to let guys walk and keep on being bottom to middling...an interesting conversation. 

 

So depending on which side is right, maybe a guy from that roster could be had for a guy on a cost controlled contract. 

I would think if we're plucking from that roster, I'd look for a guy with a couple of years on his contract, I don't  think I'd want a rental.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I'd look for a guy with a couple of years on his contract, I don't  think I'd want a rental.

 

Well he'd only be a rental if he didn't fit.

 

Just like we were not sure Pitlick would fit but he has found a nice little home in the bottom 6.

 

Until Patrick has shown he is ready to contribute full time we have to plan as if he isn't....worst case scenarios type thing.

[WordsOfWisdom]

On 2/15/2020 at 12:05 PM, OccamsRazor said:

 

I see Dillion for the Sharks is on the block maybe he is the type you guys need only a rental and I'm not sure what the asking price will be but I seen him linked to you guys.

 

At this point I'd say "no rentals" for this team. I don't think the Leafs (given their recent performance) are in that kind of position right now. I think the Leafs should be changing their strategy and being more of a seller at the trade deadline. The Leafs should be looking to add draft picks, not trade them away. 

 

 

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

At this point I'd say "no rentals" for this team. I don't think the Leafs (given their recent performance) are in that kind of position right now. I think the Leafs should be changing their strategy and being more of a seller at the trade deadline. The Leafs should be looking to add draft picks, not trade them away. 

 

 

 

The Leafs window is now open. They've got lots of firepower up front, some good pieces on D and a goalie (when healthy). Draft picks are for years down the road. 

 

 If you're happy with mediocrity...that's what they should do. Otherwise it's go for it time over the next few seasons. IMO.  Waiting for those picks to develop doesn't make sense to me when you have Mathews/Marner/Tavares(not getting any younger)/ Rielly/Muzzin/Anderson/Nylander etc. It's tweak time...not rebuild time.

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

The Leafs window is now open. They've got lots of firepower up front, some good pieces on D and a goalie (when healthy). Draft picks are for years down the road. 

 

 If you're happy with mediocrity...that's what they should do. Otherwise it's go for it time over the next few seasons. IMO.  Waiting for those picks to develop doesn't make sense to me when you have Mathews/Marner/Tavares(not getting any younger)/ Rielly/Muzzin/Anderson/Nylander etc. It's tweak time...not rebuild time.

Crap. Now I'm thinking like you. 

 

I'm with @WordsOfWisdomthat a rental doesn't make a ton of sense (depending on the rental and the price of rent) but some tweak, especially a defenseman and/or some stones...er...grit up front. Or both. 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

Crap. Now I'm thinking like you. 

 

I'm with @WordsOfWisdomthat a rental doesn't make a ton of sense (depending on the rental and the price of rent) but some tweak, especially a defenseman and/or some stones...er...grit up front. Or both. 

 

But remember not all rentals are the sam some are with intentions to buy but you get to test drive it first.

 

And if you like it then well maybe you can buy it and have it for longer.

[WordsOfWisdom]

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

The Leafs window is now open. They've got lots of firepower up front, some good pieces on D and a goalie (when healthy). Draft picks are for years down the road. 

 

Traditionally that was the case, however in today's teenage NHL -- with players younger than ever before -- draft picks have a way of making an immediate impact -- as in during their first season. So it may seem like a draft pick today is five or six years away from being an impact player, but in reality a good draft pick today would be on the everyday roster next season and would be moving up into a top line role two or three years from now. That's how fast it happens.    

 

So when I say the Leafs should get draft picks and sell at the deadline, it's really just a mini-rebuild. You dump some players who aren't core players (and who have value to other teams). You get first round draft picks in exchange, and you draft the players you're missing on your roster with the knowledge that they're going to be up here soon and winning with the existing group of core players.

 

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

But remember not all rentals are the sam some are with intentions to buy but you get to test drive it first.

 

   

 

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

And if you like it then well maybe you can buy it and have it for longer.

 

 

 

Sorry, it's a slow day...   

[flyercanuck]

7 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

Traditionally that was the case, however in today's teenage NHL -- with players younger than ever before -- draft picks have a way of making an immediate impact -- as in during their first season. So it may seem like a draft pick today is five or six years away from being an impact player, but in reality a good draft pick today would be on the everyday roster next season and would be moving up into a top line role two or three years from now. That's how fast it happens.    

 

So when I say the Leafs should get draft picks and sell at the deadline, it's really just a mini-rebuild. You dump some players who aren't core players (and who have value to other teams). You get first round draft picks in exchange, and you draft the players you're missing on your roster with the knowledge that they're going to be up here soon and winning with the existing group of core players.

 

 

 

But the Leafs aren't drafting 1st overall anymore. And drafts like 2015 (where you picked 4th) only come along once a decade or so. Heck we didn't pick til 7th and got a #1 defenceman AND a top line winger. Most picks still do take years to develop...IF they even make it. 

 

 And you're not getting 1st round picks for your cast offs. Contrary to what a lot of Leaf fans think, the leagues goal isn't to win you a cup. Drafting for need is also a losers game. BPA ALWAYS with 1st rounders.

 

 High picks in the right drafts also matter. Jersey is becoming the new Oilers. Muliple 1st overalls in mediocre drafts has them vying for nothing other than 1st overalls yet again.

Edited February 18, 2020 by flyercanuck

[JR Ewing]

The very last thing that the Toronto Maple Leafs need right now is to acquire a defenseman who needs to be sheltered at ES, and whom you then load up with PP minutes so he can get his points. He's literally the opposite of what they should be looking for.

 

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

But the Leafs aren't drafting 1st overall anymore. And drafts like 2015 (where you picked 4th) only come along once a decade or so. Heck we didn't pick til 7th and got a #1 defenceman AND a top line winger. Most picks still do take years to develop...IF they even make it. 

 

True, but it's the only way the Leafs will ever get the defenceman they're looking for... without having to give up Matthews or Marner.

 

Twenty years ago if the team needed help on defence, they could scroll through the list of free agents over the summer and just buy the best one. Today you either draft your star or you don't get one. If you're not the team to draft a Crosby, Ovechkin, or whoever, then you never get one of those players via trade. You have to build your core group in today's NHL through the draft.

 

The Leafs have an impressive collection of forwards that they drafted. The sooner they start drafting more defencemen, the sooner we can get to that Stanley Cup.   

 

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

And you're not getting 1st round picks for your cast offs. Contrary to what a lot of Leaf fans think, the leagues goal isn't to win you a cup. Drafting for need is also a losers game. BPA ALWAYS with 1st rounders.

 

Yes and no. In general you take the best player available, but remember..... you can't trade or buy that defenceman that you covet later on down the road. If you don't get him on draft day then you never get him, so adding yet another forward to a team that is flooded with forward talent actually puts the team in a weak trade position because:

 

A) You can't showcase the new player (no ice time).

B) Everyone knows your team is built wrong and you want to get rid of forwards, so they won't pay full value for them.

C) Players will start demanding to be traded, lowering their trade value even further.

D) Forwards don't have the same value as defencemen to begin with, so you get the "BPA" but not the "MVPA". 

 

[JR Ewing]

5 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 And you're not getting 1st round picks for your cast offs. Contrary to what a lot of Leaf fans think, the leagues goal isn't to win you a cup. Drafting for need is also a losers game. BPA ALWAYS with 1st rounders.

 

 

I couldn't agree more. Drafting for need over best player available is a mug's game, and will always be so.

 

a)  team needs are something that have to be addressed immediately, and the vast majority of drafted players aren't ready to fill that role right away, or usually for 3-5 years anyway, and

b) the team's needs can change drastically between draft day and the time that player is ready to contribute in a material way.

 

I go back to the old board:

 

 

You can draft for need, and it might even work out sometimes, but it really is just lucky if he's is as good as the guy you could have drafted if you took the best player available AND he fills your current needs.

 

Draft day: best player available

free agent day: address need

 

If you did your job well with respect to drafting and then developing players, those needs are usually towards the bottom half of the roster, so they're players who are relatively inexpensive and won't be signed long term. On July 1, 2018, the Leafs botched this by doing the opposite, and signing the best player available (John Tavares) which then left them in a difficult place to address need (value contracts spent on players who know that there are two nets on the ice).

 

They will be paying for that mistake for years to come.

 

Edited February 18, 2020 by JR Ewing

[flyercanuck]

2 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

True, but it's the only way the Leafs will ever get the defenceman they're looking for... without having to give up Matthews or Marner.

 

Twenty years ago if the team needed help on defence, they could scroll through the list of free agents over the summer and just buy the best one. Today you either draft your star or you don't get one. If you're not the team to draft a Crosby, Ovechkin, or whoever, then you never get one of those players via trade. You have to build your core group in today's NHL through the draft.

 

 How'd you guys get Tavares again? 

 

2 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

The Leafs have an impressive collection of forwards that they drafted. The sooner they start drafting more defencemen, the sooner we can get to that Stanley Cup.   

 

 Maybe. Or you may never draft the defenceman that you need. Philly went decades before they finally hit on a #1 defenceman. Decades. 

 

2 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

 

Yes and no. In general you take the best player available, but remember..... you can't trade or buy that defenceman that you covet later on down the road. If you don't get him on draft day then you never get him, so adding yet another forward to a team that is flooded with forward talent actually puts the team in a weak trade position because:

 

A) You can't showcase the new player (no ice time).

B) Everyone knows your team is built wrong and you want to get rid of forwards, so they won't pay full value for them.

C) Players will start demanding to be traded, lowering their trade value even further.

D) Forwards don't have the same value as defencemen to begin with, so you get the "BPA" but not the "MVPA". 

 

 

 

 I'm a firm believer of building through the draft. But there comes a time when your team needs to be tweaked, not built. The Leafs are at the tweaking stage. Or they can try and draft those players they need...maybe waiting until Tavares and Muzzin and Anderson are past their primes and they need more help at those positions. It's go time.

[WordsOfWisdom]

12 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

How'd you guys get Tavares again? 

 

This is not a knock against Tavares but he had the best season of his career as a Maple Leaf. Prior to coming to Toronto, he was a 30-goal scorer who was around the 1 Pt/GP mark. Teams are willing to part with guys like that from time to time, especially as they approach their 30's (which proves that you can always add a good forward when you need one) but they don't usually part with defencemen.   

 

18 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

Maybe. Or you may never draft the defenceman that you need. Philly went decades before they finally hit on a #1 defenceman. Decades. 

 

Well and that's the thing. You don't really have a championship calibre core group until you have a #1 defenceman among them. You can draft #1 forwards until you're blue in the face but until you get a #1 D-man, it's not going to be a Cup winning group. That's the problem in Toronto. We got Matthews, Marner, and co. (all good) but there's nobody on the blue line that is elite in that same way. 

 

24 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

I'm a firm believer of building through the draft. But there comes a time when your team needs to be tweaked, not built. The Leafs are at the tweaking stage. Or they can try and draft those players they need...maybe waiting until Tavares and Muzzin and Anderson are past their primes and they need more help at those positions. It's go time.

 

The Leafs are in a tough spot right now. They're a far cry from Boston/Tampa, but they're also far from being Detroit. I think they're more than just a tweak away from winning, so I hope they don't do something stupid short term (with a rental player) that is going to burn this franchise for the next decade. We don't need to trade away any more future Dougie Hamilton's or Tyler Seguins for someone who is going to be here for two months. That's how franchises max out early and flame out. They need to keep the draft picks coming and keep the system stocked for sustained excellence. My two cents.   

 

I like the idea of tweaking the team.... but just don't give away any draft picks to do it. 

 

[brelic]

54 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

I like the idea of tweaking the team.... but just don't give away any draft picks to do it. 

 

Some package that includes Nylander for Doughty. Done.

 

Cup = Yours.

[King Knut]

On 2/15/2020 at 9:23 AM, OccamsRazor said:

 

See should have traded Johnsson while you could have now Kapanen has taken him out in practice and he is done for the year.

 

Now down one less trade asset.

 

That means we can't get Kapanen or Johnson.  Not good for us either.