Ghost to Montreal?

[CoachX]

Does anyone have an opinion on any other team other than the leafs, or did i somehow get morphed in to Maple Leaf without knowing it?

 

Any thoughts on a Flyers trade?

[King Knut]

21 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

The Leafs window is now open. They've got lots of firepower up front, some good pieces on D and a goalie (when healthy). Draft picks are for years down the road. 

 

 If you're happy with mediocrity...that's what they should do. Otherwise it's go for it time over the next few seasons. IMO.  Waiting for those picks to develop doesn't make sense to me when you have Mathews/Marner/Tavares(not getting any younger)/ Rielly/Muzzin/Anderson/Nylander etc. It's tweak time...not rebuild time.

 

I don't think their window is quite as open as it seemed last year.  This sounds odd considering how good they are up front, but they really don't have much on defense and they don't have much help on the way.  

 

In the off season once they pull a D man or two in, Then it'll open back up again.  They may squeak into the playoffs.  I don't mean that their season's done, I just mean that despite all the amazing talent at forward, they're not a terribly complete team right now and they're about to have some huge question marks making that completion more in jeopardy.  

[flyercanuck]

2 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

This is not a knock against Tavares but he had the best season of his career as a Maple Leaf. Prior to coming to Toronto, he was a 30-goal scorer who was around the 1 Pt/GP mark. Teams are willing to part with guys like that from time to time, especially as they approach their 30's (which proves that you can always add a good forward when you need one) but they don't usually part with defencemen.   

 

 It wasn't the Isles decision to part ways with Tavares...that was his decision.

 

2 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

 

Well and that's the thing. You don't really have a championship calibre core group until you have a #1 defenceman among them. You can draft #1 forwards until you're blue in the face but until you get a #1 D-man, it's not going to be a Cup winning group. That's the problem in Toronto. We got Matthews, Marner, and co. (all good) but there's nobody on the blue line that is elite in that same way. 

 

 You also need a #1 centre. And goalie. Nashville has been a dman factory forever. They've had the goalie. They never had the centre.

 

2 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

 

The Leafs are in a tough spot right now. They're a far cry from Boston/Tampa, but they're also far from being Detroit. I think they're more than just a tweak away from winning, so I hope they don't do something stupid short term (with a rental player) that is going to burn this franchise for the next decade. We don't need to trade away any more future Dougie Hamilton's or Tyler Seguins for someone who is going to be here for two months. That's how franchises max out early and flame out. They need to keep the draft picks coming and keep the system stocked for sustained excellence. My two cents.   

 

I like the idea of tweaking the team.... but just don't give away any draft picks to do it. 

 

 

 You don't have to trade away draft picks for rentals. You trade for players you'll have around for a few years.

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

 

Some package that includes Nylander for Doughty. Done.

 

Cup = Yours.

 

Not sure if it's that simple, but that is a trade that could bring them a lot closer.

[flyercanuck]

56 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I don't think their window is quite as open as it seemed last year.  This sounds odd considering how good they are up front, but they really don't have much on defense and they don't have much help on the way.  

 

In the off season once they pull a D man or two in, Then it'll open back up again.  They may squeak into the playoffs.  I don't mean that their season's done, I just mean that despite all the amazing talent at forward, they're not a terribly complete team right now and they're about to have some huge question marks making that completion more in jeopardy.  

 

They've got Rielly, Barrie, Muzzin, Dermott, Sandin. That's far from what I'd call "not much" on D. Actually, if they could land one good 2 way, they'd be looking pretty good. easier said than done, but that's a lot better than having not much.

[King Knut]

4 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

They've got Rielly, Barrie, Muzzin, Dermott, Sandin. That's far from what I'd call "not much" on D. Actually, if they could land one good 2 way, they'd be looking pretty good. easier said than done, but that's a lot better than having not much.

 

Reilly's on LTIR and of the rest, only Sandin in under contract past this year.  

 

Reilly comes back in a month so that leaves about a month of the aforementioned squad together.  That's not a huge window.  

[WordsOfWisdom]

5 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

I couldn't agree more. Drafting for need over best player available is a mug's game, and will always be so.

 

Fair enough.   

 

5 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

a)  team needs are something that have to be addressed immediately,

 

But how? In a salary cap league, you're pretty much stuck with whatever you draft. You can't move guys out. You can't get guys in. You can't acquire someone in a trade without giving up the same or more in return. Every star player is locked down on max money/max term contracts and the players become almost unmovable.   

 

5 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

b) the team's needs can change drastically between draft day and the time that player is ready to contribute

 

That's an excellent point, and while that applies to most teams, Toronto is a franchise that (like Edmonton) ALWAYS needs help defensively. You can't possibly draft enough defencemen for it to be overkill in TOR or EDM. It's not possible lol.  

5 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

I go back to the old board:

 

 

Love that table. 

 

5 hours ago, JR Ewing said:

f you did your job well with respect to drafting and then developing players, those needs are usually towards the bottom half of the roster, so they're players who are relatively inexpensive and won't be signed long term. On July 1, 2018, the Leafs botched this by doing the opposite, and signing the best player available (John Tavares) which then left them in a difficult place to address need (value contracts spent on players who know that there are two nets on the ice).

 

They will be paying for that mistake for years to come.

 

I'm telling ya, this franchise will never have a Norris trophy winner in my lifetime. Toronto is a franchise that doesn't defend. Every brand has a "signature" and Toronto's signature in hockey is no defence. Their "brand" is 1980's run and gun hockey. 

[WordsOfWisdom]

34 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

It wasn't the Isles decision to part ways with Tavares...that was his decision

 

Oh my bad.   

 

34 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

You also need a #1 centre. And goalie. Nashville has been a dman factory forever. They've had the goalie. They never had the centre.

 

You would think Toronto and Nashville could get together for a trade right?  But it won't happen. Nashville isn't really looking for a #1 center any more than Toronto is really looking for a #1 defenceman. When a team need doesn't get addressed year after year, and decade after decade, you begin to realize that the team isn't trying to address it. Nashville doesn't play run and gun hockey. They never will. Toronto doesn't play defensive hockey. They never will. So those two teams will never make the obvious trade and swap center for defenceman.   

 

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

Does anyone have an opinion on any other team other than the leafs, or did i somehow get morphed in to Maple Leaf without knowing it?

 

Any thoughts on a Flyers trade?

 

Yes, you turned blue and white.  Send us Myers.  We'll send you...... someone.   

[WordsOfWisdom]

2 hours ago, brelic said:

 

Some package that includes Nylander for Doughty. Done.

 

Cup = Yours.

 

Doughty is a few years removed from his Norris trophy and wow has he ever sucked the last two years in LA. I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole if I were the Leafs. He's in a state of massive decline. No thanks. No way. That's not the same Drew Doughty from 3-4 years ago.    

[WordsOfWisdom]

49 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Not sure if it's that simple, but that is a trade that could bring them a lot closer.

 

It's not the same guy any more. Look at Doughty's stats:

 

					Scoring					Goals				Assists			Shots			Ice Time
Season	Age	Tm	Lg	GP	G	A	PTS	+/-	PIM	EV	PP	SH	GW	EV	PP	SH	S	S%	TSA	TOI	ATOI	FOW	FOL	FO%	BLK	HIT	TK	GV	Awards
Career		12 yrs	NHL	908	116	379	495	44	621	56	58	2	27	215	158	6	1940	6.0	4182	23848	26:16	1	2	33.3	1181	1610	227	920
2008-09	19	LAK	NHL	81	6	21	27	-17	56	3	3	0	1	8	13	0	126	4.8	295	1930	23:50	0	0		114	90	36	75	AS-17,Calder-5
2009-10	20	LAK	NHL	82	16	43	59	20	54	7	9	0	5	21	22	0	142	11.3	315	2048	24:59	0	0		75	155	19	69	AS-2,AS-3,Hart-17,Norris-3
2010-11	21	LAK	NHL	76	11	29	40	13	68	6	5	0	3	19	10	0	139	7.9	341	1949	25:39	0	0		101	137	22	77	AS-12,Norris-10
2011-12	22	LAK	NHL	77	10	26	36	-2	69	7	3	0	3	16	10	0	168	6.0	354	1917	24:54	0	0		70	122	26	65	AS-21
2012-13	23	LAK	NHL	48	6	16	22	4	36	3	3	0	0	9	7	0	114	5.3	260	1267	26:24	0	0		46	128	9	36	AS-9,Norris-9
2013-14	24	LAK	NHL	78	10	27	37	17	64	4	6	0	2	16	10	1	177	5.6	401	2006	25:43	0	0		91	180	16	82	AS-6,Norris-6
2014-15	25	LAK	NHL	82	7	39	46	3	56	6	1	0	2	22	16	1	219	3.2	450	2378	29:00	0	1	0.0	144	152	12	80	AS-2,AS-3,Hart-17,Norris-2
2015-16	26	LAK	NHL	82	14	37	51	24	52	4	9	1	3	21	15	1	197	7.1	431	2297	28:01	0	0		105	125	10	97	AS-1,Hart-11,Norris-1
2016-17	27	LAK	NHL	82	12	32	44	8	46	7	5	0	1	17	14	1	181	6.6	365	2226	27:09	1	0	100.0	109	129	24	86	AS-7,Norris-7
2017-18	28	LAK	NHL	82	10	50	60	23	54	6	3	1	4	33	17	0	205	4.9	401	2201	26:50	0	1	0.0	128	127	17	79	AS-1,Hart-15,Norris-2
2018-19	29	LAK	NHL	82	8	37	45	-34	44	1	7	0	1	19	17	1	154	5.2	318	2181	26:36	0	0		120	168	23	105
2019-20	30	LAK	NHL	56	6	22	28	-15	22	2	4	0	2	14	7	1	118	5.1	251	1449	25:52	0	0		78	97	13	69

[WordsOfWisdom]

47 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

They've got Rielly, Barrie, Muzzin, Dermott, Sandin. That's far from what I'd call "not much" on D. Actually, if they could land one good 2 way, they'd be looking pretty good. easier said than done, but that's a lot better than having not much.

 

Ceci is out with an injury.... Toronto's best defensive defenceman. I wonder if that has anything to do with the recent struggles.   

 

(I know I'm gonna get flamed because everyone sh*ts all over the guy lol.)

[flyercanuck]

56 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Reilly's on LTIR and of the rest, only Sandin in under contract past this year.  

 

Reilly comes back in a month so that leaves about a month of the aforementioned squad together.  That's not a huge window.  

 

Ok, but I'm not talking about one shot. The team has a good nucleus for several years. That's why I also mentioned about not trading for rentals, but for guys to play there awhile.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

That means we can't get Kapanen or Johnson.  Not good for us either.

 

Sure but it's not like they were going to trade either of them to Philly for what we wanted to give up anyway.

[JR Ewing]

1 hour ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

But how? In a salary cap league, you're pretty much stuck with whatever you draft. You can't move guys out. You can't get guys in. You can't acquire someone in a trade without giving up the same or more in return. Every star player is locked down on max money/max term contracts and the players become almost unmovable.   

 

 

If the GM and the rest of the staff are doing their jobs right, you don't need to spend big bucks on free agents, because the needs aren't major. This is aside from another thing: of the big signings on July 1, most teams seem to regret it within the calendar year, let alone a long time down the road. The Leafs surely don't regret signing Tavares from the standpoint of his production, but that signing also crippled them with the cap: they signed him before signing any of their existing core, and it will hurt for a long time.

 

-------------

 

With that, I'll bow out of not talking about Ghost. I don't mean to take things too far off-topic, and apologize for my own part in it.

 

[flyercanuck]

43 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

It's not the same guy any more. Look at Doughty's stats:

 

					Scoring					Goals				Assists			Shots			Ice Time
Season	Age	Tm	Lg	GP	G	A	PTS	+/-	PIM	EV	PP	SH	GW	EV	PP	SH	S	S%	TSA	TOI	ATOI	FOW	FOL	FO%	BLK	HIT	TK	GV	Awards
Career		12 yrs	NHL	908	116	379	495	44	621	56	58	2	27	215	158	6	1940	6.0	4182	23848	26:16	1	2	33.3	1181	1610	227	920
2008-09	19	LAK	NHL	81	6	21	27	-17	56	3	3	0	1	8	13	0	126	4.8	295	1930	23:50	0	0		114	90	36	75	AS-17,Calder-5
2009-10	20	LAK	NHL	82	16	43	59	20	54	7	9	0	5	21	22	0	142	11.3	315	2048	24:59	0	0		75	155	19	69	AS-2,AS-3,Hart-17,Norris-3
2010-11	21	LAK	NHL	76	11	29	40	13	68	6	5	0	3	19	10	0	139	7.9	341	1949	25:39	0	0		101	137	22	77	AS-12,Norris-10
2011-12	22	LAK	NHL	77	10	26	36	-2	69	7	3	0	3	16	10	0	168	6.0	354	1917	24:54	0	0		70	122	26	65	AS-21
2012-13	23	LAK	NHL	48	6	16	22	4	36	3	3	0	0	9	7	0	114	5.3	260	1267	26:24	0	0		46	128	9	36	AS-9,Norris-9
2013-14	24	LAK	NHL	78	10	27	37	17	64	4	6	0	2	16	10	1	177	5.6	401	2006	25:43	0	0		91	180	16	82	AS-6,Norris-6
2014-15	25	LAK	NHL	82	7	39	46	3	56	6	1	0	2	22	16	1	219	3.2	450	2378	29:00	0	1	0.0	144	152	12	80	AS-2,AS-3,Hart-17,Norris-2
2015-16	26	LAK	NHL	82	14	37	51	24	52	4	9	1	3	21	15	1	197	7.1	431	2297	28:01	0	0		105	125	10	97	AS-1,Hart-11,Norris-1
2016-17	27	LAK	NHL	82	12	32	44	8	46	7	5	0	1	17	14	1	181	6.6	365	2226	27:09	1	0	100.0	109	129	24	86	AS-7,Norris-7
2017-18	28	LAK	NHL	82	10	50	60	23	54	6	3	1	4	33	17	0	205	4.9	401	2201	26:50	0	1	0.0	128	127	17	79	AS-1,Hart-15,Norris-2
2018-19	29	LAK	NHL	82	8	37	45	-34	44	1	7	0	1	19	17	1	154	5.2	318	2181	26:36	0	0		120	168	23	105
2019-20	30	LAK	NHL	56	6	22	28	-15	22	2	4	0	2	14	7	1	118	5.1	251	1449	25:52	0	0		78	97	13	69

 

 

 Of course it's not the same guy....that's why he might be available. If he was prime Doughty, IE arguably the best defenceman on the planet, why would the Kings trade him?  And if they would you could start with Mathews, which might be defeating the purpose.

 

 His stats are down?  He's playing on the 2nd worst team in the league...who have scored the 30th most goals in a 31 team league.  He's still their 3rd leading scorer. He still plays the most minutes on the team. Think his points would go up playing on a pp with Mathews/Marner/Tavares instead of the tripe he has in LA? I do. 

 

 I'm not saying he's THE guy to go after (his contract would be tough) but he's the type of guy you want, and could possibly get.

[King Knut]

29 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Sure but it's not like they were going to trade either of them to Philly for what we wanted to give up anyway.

They’d be wise to consider Ghost (plus a pick for Kap) now or Hagg in the off season. 
 

they’ll want Myers or Sanheim, but that’s not happening. 
 

I’ll go a step further and say that if Fletcher should move Ghost now if he gets a good offer.  Definitely in the off season if not. 

 

It’ll be increasingly hard to get much for him throughout next year and Then Seattle will draft him for nothing. 

Edited February 18, 2020 by King Knut

[King Knut]

51 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Ok, but I'm not talking about one shot. The team has a good nucleus for several years. That's why I also mentioned about not trading for rentals, but for guys to play there awhile.

You’re a flyers fan.  How well does a good nucleus with one and a half d-men tend to work out?  
 

I’m saying they have this year if Reilly comes back strong and then they have work to do in the off season to maintain that window.  If they get 2-3 Decent D-men, the.mn they’ve got a big window open. If not, then they’re still searching for the key.
 

 

[OccamsRazor]

11 minutes ago, King Knut said:

they’ll want Myers or Sanheim, but that’s not happening. 

 

Exactly. 

[King Knut]

51 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Ok, but I'm not talking about one shot. The team has a good nucleus for several years. That's why I also mentioned about not trading for rentals, but for guys to play there awhile.

You’re a flyers fan.  How well does a good nucleus with one and a half d-men tend to work out?  
 

I’m saying they have this year if Reilly comes back strong and then they have work to do in the off season to maintain that window.  If they get 2-3 Decent D-men, the.mn they’ve got a big window open. If not, then they’re still searching for the key.
 

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

5 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Exactly.