NHL considering resuming the season with 24 team playoff

[WordsOfWisdom]

15 hours ago, AJgoal said:

If your team didn't want to get screwed over, they should have played better. The only reason they had a shot at the playoffs at all, despite all their talent, was the fact that they play in a weak division. Why shouldn't Carolina play a lower-seeded opponent? Last time I checked, they have a better points percentage than Toronto. In the old playoff format, the Leafs would have played the one seed, IF they beat out Columbus at the end of the season. Re-seeding after the play in is the only adjustment I would make if they're committed to this.

 

The Leafs were a TOP 3 team in their division. They were going to play Tampa in round one.  Columbus was going to play Boston.

 

Montreal had 71 pts. That's 10 points less than Toronto and they're in these playoffs. What a joke. 

 

It goes by TOP 3 in division and then the two wild cards. Carolina is a wild card team. They finished 4th in their division.

[WordsOfWisdom]

12 hours ago, ruxpin said:

First of all, I hate the whole farce.

 

Agreed. 

 

12 hours ago, ruxpin said:

But they're sticking with the bracket set-up rather than re-seeding.    So, 8 would have played one.   So the "play-in" is to fill that spot.

Same with the 5v12.  The 5 would have played the 4.   So, instead of reseeding if #12 wins the play-in, they'll just take that slot.

 

I guess my question is: why is Montreal here?  Why isn't this the TOP 16 teams?  How is it that a 71 point team could potentially upset Pittsburgh and then face the #4 seed in the second round?  Almost feels rigged. 

 

This is what the playoffs SHOULD be:

 

EAST

Boston vs Columbus

Toronto vs Tampa

Washington vs Carolina

Philadelphia vs Pittsburgh

 

Why aren't they doing that? Would anyone object to that? 

 

15 hours ago, AJgoal said:

It's a round robin. You know, kind of like what happens ALL THE TIME at the World Juniors, World Championships, and Olympics, where the top couple of teams regularly face each other in the first round. Except here, nobody gets eliminated.

 

I know but it ruins it. I don't know what the technical term is for it but if this were boxing/UFC it would be akin to having your fighter's career path go like this:

• Fight #1: Face the champion of the world
• Fight #2: Face the regional champion.
• Fight #3: Face an unranked contender.
• Fight #4: Face a part-time completely unknown fighter.

Or if you were designing a fight card:

• Undercard/opener match:  Undefeated champion vs undefeated champion to unify the titles.
• Mid-card match: A #1 contender's match with nothing at stake.
• Main event: Two unranked fighters who have never been on TV battling for nothing.

 

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

7 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Ultimately, there is absolutely no way to make this "fair" for everyone.   Someone is going to get screwed. 

 

Why not just stick with the TOP 16 teams and go by points percentage on the regular season?   

 

 

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

3 hours ago, radoran said:

I object to the entire concept of 3/4 of teams making the playoffs and the chance that a team who wasn't qualified to be in the real playoffs being given a chance to win a Cup.

 

This x 1000.

 

I can see it now: Montreal will bump off Pittsburgh, and you'll wind up having MTL vs NYR in the conference final and then the Coyotes will win the Stanley Cup over the New York Rangers. 

[Icechipper]

Good point. Did the NHL ask the fans? I love hockey and even skate some summer nights in pickup games, but admit my diet for watching playoffs gets tested in June. Here I the Northland, winters are long, and I wonder if even hockey-mad Canadiens will tune in at the end of long summer days. Suppose we could watch around the bonfire......

[ruxpin]

2 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

I guess my question is: why is Montreal here?  Why isn't this the TOP 16 teams?  How is it that a 71 point team could potentially upset Pittsburgh and then face the #4 seed in the second round?  Almost feels rigged. 

This has nothing to do with competition, fairness or whatever. 

 

The answer to your question is again television contracts and revenue. 16 teams negates the reason for a play in that everyone can pretend isn't a playoff and counts to magically fulfill a number of regular season games. 

 

I agree with your upset with the 71 point club knocking off a legitimate team.  I wouldn't cry too much for the Pens, specifically, but it was looking like quite possibly a Philly/Pitt first round. It's not what it once was, but it's still a good time. 

 

I don't know that it's rigged. I mean, I guess it's possible since nearly everything else is anymore. But it certainly lacks a drop of integrity. 

[ruxpin]

2 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

Why not just stick with the TOP 16 teams and go by points percentage on the regular season?   

 

 

 

My other post answers in a slightly more level headed way, but it's late and the short direct answer is because they give two s#### about the fans. This is about recouping some of their losses and an attempt to hedge against what more they might lose. Period. If you're looking for a hockey or sports reason or any kind of attempt to find a legit winner, you ain't going to find it. No pretense at thought was given to that. 

[Math]

9 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

I guess my question is: why is Montreal here?  Why isn't this the TOP 16 teams? 

 

Because by extending to 24 teams, you include big markets like Montréal, NY Rangers and Chicago. It's only a money thing.

 

But my understanding is: that stupid best-of-5 qualifying round is not part of the playoffs, technically speaking. The losers of this series won't be listed as qualified teams for the playoffs in the record and stats.

 

That being said, yes, screw that, just cancel the goddamn season and try to have a more "normal" 2020-2021 season.

[pilldoc]

11 minutes ago, Villette/Lavaux said:

That being said, yes, screw that, just cancel the goddamn season and try to have a more "normal" 2020-2021 season.

 

Exactly!  .......  

[JR Ewing]

42 minutes ago, Villette/Lavaux said:

 

Because by extending to 24 teams, you include big markets like Montréal, NY Rangers and Chicago. It's only a money thing.

 

 

My guess has been that if those cities had been in the top 16 already, then we wouldn't be looking at this 24-team silliness.

 

[hf101]

18 minutes ago, Villette/Lavaux said:

Because by extending to 24 teams, you include big markets like Montréal, NY Rangers and Chicago. It's only a money thing.

 

Yeah, but... there is quite a bit of importance to the money aspect.  There is a big TV contract to cash in on for the NHL.  Sure I know I will be missing out on seeing a playoff game or two in person, but frankly I'd be watching the majority of any playoffs from my couch anyways.   Not much changes really for a lot of NHL fans, other than it's being summer and nothing much else to watch on TV.

 

For me it is the health aspect that is more concerning imo.  How can the NHL keep all involved not to get Covid once they start up?

[Math]

30 minutes ago, hf101 said:

 

Yeah, but... there is quite a bit of importance to the money aspect.  There is a big TV contract to cash in on for the NHL.  Sure I know I will be missing out on seeing a playoff game or two in person, but frankly I'd be watching the majority of any playoffs from my couch anyways.   Not much changes really for a lot of NHL fans, other than it's being summer and nothing much else to watch on TV.

 

Good point. And even if I despise this whole nonsense solution, I'll be a b!tch and watch it.

 

30 minutes ago, hf101 said:

 

For me it is the health aspect that is more concerning imo.  How can the NHL keep all involved not to get Covid once they start up?

 

Because Buttman is God. All governments, doctors, health staff are fighting with this pandemic, trying desperately to put out those fires, but He has the solution. Send 1000+ people in some place in the US and Canada, along with the NHL crew, players, their families, jam-packed them in hotels and everything will be allright.

 

I heard that the final word will come to the players through the NHLPA. So it's still theoretically possible that they turn this down at the end If I'm not mistaken.

[WordsOfWisdom]

1 hour ago, JR Ewing said:

 

My guess has been that if those cities had been in the top 16 already, then we wouldn't be looking at this 24-team silliness.

 

 

Agreed.  

 

The NHL should just quit pretending they have integrity and just organize their league standings based on the teams with the best TV contracts generating the most revenue. It could look like this:

 

TEAM----------REVENUE---W-L-PTS

Blah blah      $x                 x-x-xx

Blah blah      $y                 y-y-yy

 

Teams would be sorted by revenue, and if two teams are tied, then PTS is the first tie-breaker. 

[jammer2]

Strictly from a Flyers perspective, finishing 4th in the conference and playing a round Robin to potentially get 1st seed? Nice...but to what end? We had the best home record by far and now play no home games? Advantage...rest of the East. We lose the most by having no home games. Overall though, at least the team, which was arguably playing their best hockey of a decade plus, get a chance to see what they can do. Very important for Hart to be playing games when it counts. He needs that to develop...ditto for all the youngsters. 

[radoran]

1 hour ago, jammer2 said:

Overall though, at least the team, which was arguably playing their best hockey of a decade plus, get a chance to see what they can do. Very important for Hart to be playing games when it counts.

 

Even beer league teams have some fans. Heck, at most practices there are more than a few people standing around.

 

Playing to almost dead silence in an empty arena? How does that even work?

I'm betting we get piped in "crowd noise" and chants.

 

What they won't have is what they should have: a laugh track.

 

[hf101]

 

2 hours ago, jammer2 said:

We had the best home record by far and now play no home games?

 

I don't think they've set the locations yet right?   I can surely see Philly as one of the main locations with Comcast and all.

[ruxpin]

16 minutes ago, hf101 said:

 

 

I don't think they've set the locations yet right?   I can surely see Philly as one of the main locations with Comcast and all.

It's possible, but Philly isn' t among those listed.

 

Things could change by then, but they'll likely stay away from Philly or New York only because they've had such a rough ride and aren't yet officially in the clear.

 

Allegheny County wasn't doing that great, either (not as bad), so I'm mildly surprised.   Also surprise because while downtown Pittsburgh has some larger hotels, obviously, I don't know that they can accommodate that kind of volume.

[radoran]

https://www.twincities.com/2020/05/26/twin-cities-confirmed-as-a-potential-hub-city-for-nhl-playoffs/

 

Quote

In addition to the Twin Cities, other contenders are Chicago, Columbus, Dallas, Edmonton, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Pittsburgh, Toronto and Vancouver. Two hub cities will be selected with conference occupying one hub city for the duration of the playoffs.

 

This just gets dumber and dumber the more we learn about it.

 

That's seven Western Conference cities - six of which actually have teams in the "playoffs"

 

All three "Eastern" Conference cities also have teams in the "playoffs".

 

How do we feel about playing the Penguins... in Pittsburgh?

 

Is it impossible to find a neutral site for these shenanigans?? Heck, there are, after all, seven cities that don't have teams in the playoffs...

[ruxpin]

58 minutes ago, radoran said:

How do we feel about playing the Penguins... in Pittsburgh?

 

Quote

Is it impossible to find a neutral site for these shenanigans?? 

 

 

If there are no fans in the building, I really don't think it matters. Without fans, they're ALL neutral.   Honestly.   What creates the home ice advantage?

 

1. Fans, their reactions, their urging on, and the opposite against the opponent.

2.  Last change.   They'll have that in any building in adherence to whomever is supposed to be the "home" team for any given game.

 

So, we're back to just last change.   No other home ice advantage.  

At this point, it's two pairs of mildly-interested teams on a random rink of frozen liquid that could be anywhere. And without fans, none of them will likely even know or care where they are while they're playing.  They'll be doing it in near-silence.    The only team that COULD benefit from this is the Panthers, since they're quite used to playing in silence.

Edited May 28, 2020 by ruxpin

[jammer2]

1 hour ago, hf101 said:

 

 

I don't think they've set the locations yet right?   I can surely see Philly as one of the main locations with Comcast and all.

The NHL has already said, if a city is a hub location, the home team cant play their games at home. They would have to travel...unfair advantage I guess?

[ruxpin]

12 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

The NHL has already said, if a city is a hub location, the home team cant play their games at home. They would have to travel...unfair advantage I guess?

 

I honestly don't see how any place is "home ice advantage" with no fans.  Seriously, I don't mean to hammer this, but I think we need to think about what creates a home ice advantage.   I mean, it's not like the old days when the old Boston Gardens or the Aud had tighter corners or smaller zones, etc.   They're all cookie-cutter rinks at this point.  Some variance in ice surface, but that may be all out the window playing in July, anyway.

 

And like I said to rad:  last change.   That can be assigned arbitrarily regardless of where you physically play.   Like batting last in baseball.

 

What is really the huge difference is fans --who won't be there.   I don't think I'm overstating this.  I don't think an empty arena gives anyone an advantage.

 

Pretend it's in Pittsburgh, since that's actually on the list.  I don't even think the Penguins will get home cooking advantage as I doubt they'll be able to go home during the tournament in an effort to keep players self-quarantined for protection.  They allow anyone to go home and they've violated their own reasons for having an arbitrary playing location.

 

For better or worse (I think worse), home ice advantage will be completely irrelevant.  One team will get the extra game to have last change.   That's about it.

Edited May 28, 2020 by ruxpin

[Icechipper]

Advantage: last change and two periods, vs. one, with more favorable bench proximity for changes on the fly........

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, Icechipper said:

Advantage: last change and two periods, vs. one, with more favorable bench proximity for changes on the fly........

 

Doesn't that happen always for both teams whether home or away?   You're always favorable bench proximity in the first and third and further in the second.   I'm not following.

[pilldoc]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inquirer.com/sports/flyers-coronavirus-resume-training-cap-july-10-20200528.html%3foutputType=amp
 

end it now!  There is no sense in trying to salvage this season. Call it now and get plans in place for the fall. This charade by Buttman is ridiculous......

[jammer2]

3 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

I honestly don't see how any place is "home ice advantage" with no fans.  Seriously, I don't mean to hammer this, but I think we need to think about what creates a home ice advantage.   I mean, it's not like the old days when the old Boston Gardens or the Aud had tighter corners or smaller zones, etc.   They're all cookie-cutter rinks at this point.  Some variance in ice surface, but that may be all out the window playing in July, anyway.

 

And like I said to rad:  last change.   That can be assigned arbitrarily regardless of where you physically play.   Like batting last in baseball.

 

What is really the huge difference is fans --who won't be there.   I don't think I'm overstating this.  I don't think an empty arena gives anyone an advantage.

 

Pretend it's in Pittsburgh, since that's actually on the list.  I don't even think the Penguins will get home cooking advantage as I doubt they'll be able to go home during the tournament in an effort to keep players self-quarantined for protection.  They allow anyone to go home and they've violated their own reasons for having an arbitrary playing location.

 

For better or worse (I think worse), home ice advantage will be completely irrelevant.  One team will get the extra game to have last change.   That's about it.

With no fans, home ice advantage basically comes down to familiarity with the ice surface...ie quirky tendencies in regards to pucks coming off the boards differently in certain spots...that kinda thing.