Flyers 2020-21 season

[flyer4ever]

All the tweaking with the bottom of the roster on this board is nice conversation, the Flyers issue is the top of the line up. The big 3 earners at forward, JVR, Jake and Giroux are probably the  worst value in the league. Giroux was a great player, but not any longer. With a flat cap for 2 or 3 more seasons his contract is the new albatross, and there is no chance of trading him. Jake has some value, JVR is also a flat cap casualty. Hard to see a remedy for this. I would love to eat my hat 12 months from now after Giroux lights it up, but don't see it happening. Healthy Patrick, Frost and Farabee are the best hope, with an injection of physicality in the bottom 6.

[RonJeremy]

14 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

I've always liked Shattenkirk. He was wasted in New York as he was expected to be a legitimate number 1 when he isn't. He's a solid mid pairing guy, so maybe the time is now to bump Myers up with Provorov, have Sanheim play along side Niskanen and then have Hoggwart and Friedman as a pair.

Shattenkirk is not that great defensively, if we do get another dman to replace Braun, I would rather get a defensive specialist. Not sure if Friedman is the answer.

[RonJeremy]

12 hours ago, flyer4ever said:

All the tweaking with the bottom of the roster on this board is nice conversation, the Flyers issue is the top of the line up. The big 3 earners at forward, JVR, Jake and Giroux are probably the  worst value in the league. Giroux was a great player, but not any longer. With a flat cap for 2 or 3 more seasons his contract is the new albatross, and there is no chance of trading him. Jake has some value, JVR is also a flat cap casualty. Hard to see a remedy for this. I would love to eat my hat 12 months from now after Giroux lights it up, but don't see it happening. Healthy Patrick, Frost and Farabee are the best hope, with an injection of physicality in the bottom 6.

If we can somehow unload JVR and Jake it would be a miracle. I think more teams would prefer Jake over JVR,  but with most teams in cap trouble, there won’t be many potential trade partners and  we may have to eat some salary or take one of their bad contracts back in a deal. If we do trade both of them , it will definitely hurt our offensive output , so we would need  to trade for a  goal scorer . Obviously we are not getting a young 30 goal scorer for either Jake or JVR, they may have to be moved  In a salary dump for picks or prospects and a separate deal would have to made to get a scorer. To get the kind of player we need it’s gonna probably cost us Ghost a first round pick and a guy like Frost.

[mojo1917]

I wonder how the board will react to Ridly Greig being the pick at 23?

McKeens has him @24 Button has him @ 30... all things being equal it could happen. 

Anyone stroking out? Anyone excited ?

Do the Flyers even use the 23 or is it a chip in a deal for a player ?

Pretty interesting couple of days coming up. 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

12 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I wonder how the board will react to Ridly Greig being the pick at 23?

McKeens has him @24 Button has him @ 30... all things being equal it could happen. 

Anyone stroking out? Anyone excited ?

Do the Flyers even use the 23 or is it a chip in a deal for a player ?

Pretty interesting couple of days coming up. 

 

The Flyers have enough two-way prospects and players. The need is for a legit offensive player and a finisher in particular. I'm not sure if Ridly Greig is that guy or if he's Laughton 2.0. Preferably, I'm hoping that either Perreault, Bourque, Khusnutdinov, Gunler or Lapierre are there when they pick. Swing for the fences at 23

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

Not sure if Friedman is the answer.

 

Not sure any player is really the "answer" but Friedman is a very good solid prospect who can get the puck up the ice he was leaned on heavily in the AHL for that. Nothing flashy just smart simple plays with the puck on his stick.

 

And he has a nice fiesty streak in him too with a nice offensive flare too.

 

He will carve out a spot in the lineup next year.

 

In fact I like what he brings to the lineup more than Hagg.

 

I am crossing my fingers that Morin can play well in the AHL enough to maybe get a look next spring if need be.

[OccamsRazor]

38 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

The Flyers have enough two-way prospects and players. The need is for a legit offensive player and a finisher in particular. I'm not sure if Ridly Greig is that guy or if he's Laughton 2.0. Preferably, I'm hoping that either Perreault, Bourque, Khusnutdinov, Gunler or Lapierre are there when they pick. Swing for the fences at 23

 

I just want BPA...unless they want to move the pick in a package to enhance the current NHL lineup.

[Poconono]

Ill be shocked if they don't select Greig.  Not that I think he's anything special but he fits the old time Flyer mold of being a pest and fairly physical.  This is an organization that wasted a pick to select their COO's son a few years back so why not draft one of the alumni club's, I mean the scouting department's, kids?  Sadly, most of the highest rated middle-to-late first rounders seem to be pretty small.

 

[CoachX]

3 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Shattenkirk is not that great defensively, if we do get another dman to replace Braun, I would rather get a defensive specialist. Not sure if Friedman is the answer.

I think they have enough defensive resources that trading for another is not necessary

[CoachX]

 

2 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I'm not sure if Ridly Greig is that guy or if he's Laughton 2.0

 I dont even like Laughton 1.0

[CoachX]

If the Flyers leave Ghost, Jake and JVR unprotected, who would Seattle pick?

[mojo1917]

@CoachX

I would have to think Ghost, decent contract, high excitement value to his game. 

Gotta put asses in seats, he's a guy that is exciting.

 

Next would be Jake, Big body, good handle gets his 50-60 points.  he's a legitimate top line player in the league. the 8.2aav might be scary, but he's 'in the range" production wise.

 

JvR would require some kind of handshake, future considerations with his contract, most likely, unless data man is in the GMs ear.

[CoachX]

Im reading stories that the Flyers and Jets have been talking recently about Laine

 

I already know many want know part of him. But, lets assume the Flyers dont listen to us. What does it take tto get him?

[Podein25]

25 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Im reading stories that the Flyers and Jets have been talking recently about Laine

 

I already know many want know part of him. But, lets assume the Flyers dont listen to us. What does it take tto get him?

 

It likely takes Sanheim, plus plus

[RonJeremy]

39 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Im reading stories that the Flyers and Jets have been talking recently about Laine

 

I already know many want know part of him. But, lets assume the Flyers dont listen to us. What does it take tto get him?

 

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

I think they have enough defensive resources that trading for another is not necessary

Sanheim, Meyers and Ghost are offensive defenseman,Niskanen is also more of an offensive defenseman than he js a shutdown guy. Haag and Provo are probably our best defensive guys,  so how can you say, we have enough defensive resources?  Braun was supposed to be a guy who prevents goals, so if he is not being signed, then we surely need a shutdown defender to do the job he was suppswd to do. 

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, Poconono said:

Ill be shocked if they don't select Greig.  Not that I think he's anything special but he fits the old time Flyer mold of being a pest and fairly physical.  This is an organization that wasted a pick to select their COO's son a few years back so why not draft one of the alumni club's, I mean the scouting department's, kids?  Sadly, most of the highest rated middle-to-late first rounders seem to be pretty small.

 

 

Yeah his dad who is a current scout and use b to play for the Flyers/Phantoms don't hurt either.

 

#nepotismdoesntexistinphilly

[mojo1917]

3 hours ago, Poconono said:

This is an organization that wasted a pick to select their COO's son a few years back so why not draft one of the alumni club's

Way different scenarios, but okay.

Lukko was like the last player drafted or some ****.

That 7th rounder could have been *somebody.

 

This Greig kid has some game. ceiling is a slightly less talented Koneckny.... his floor is Laughtonesque.

In this particular case especially with Greig refusing to scout or evaluate his boy, I don't think there's a whole lot of "the fix is in" if the Flyers take Ridly.

 

I wonder if the Niskanen retirement news changes this calculus in any way?

 

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

 

Sanheim, Meyers and Ghost are offensive defenseman,Niskanen is also more of an offensive defenseman than he js a shutdown guy. Haag and Provo are probably our best defensive guys,  so how can you say, we have enough defensive resources?  Braun was supposed to be a guy who prevents goals, so if he is not being signed, then we surely need a shutdown defender to do the job he was suppswd to do. 

By saying they are "offensive" defensemen, you are implying they arent good at playing defense. They were all good enough to play full time all season. Braun was/is the only liability. Defense was not the issue this season, lack of offense was. Take out Braun and insert Ghost, or Friedman, or Morin (healthy?). That equates to enough defensive resources

[RonJeremy]

3 hours ago, CoachX said:

If the Flyers leave Ghost, Jake and JVR unprotected, who would Seattle pick?

Ghost for sure.

[RonJeremy]

2 minutes ago, CoachX said:

By saying they are "offensive" defensemen, you are implying they arent good at playing defense. They were all good enough to play full time all season. Braun was/is the only liability. Defense was not the issue this season, lack of offense was. Take out Braun and insert Ghost, or Friedman, or Morin (healthy?). That equates to enough defensive resources

I’m not implying they can’t play defense, but they are more known for their skating and offensive skills than for their defensive ability ,but both are solid defensively. I agree that a lack of offense was our biggest problem, but right now we are talking about defensemen so, Braun is not coming back and has to be replaced preferably with a big strong dman who can shut things down and help us clear the crease. The Islanders had an extended vacation in front of our net because Sanheim and Meyers are not strong enough to muscle anyone out. Both need to hit the gym for the next 4 months and add some strength.Ghost is being traded, Morin has barely played hockey in the past three years and with the season starting in January, I just do not see him making the team this season. Friedman is solid , but he is not really the physical, shutdown kinda guy we need.I think we need another physical defenseman with some size. If we improve our goals against a bit more, we can win more games that way, since we can’t skate with teams like Tampa and the Isles, we need to be more of a team that wins on team play,  hard work, defense and goaltending . It’s easier to get a shutdown dman than to find a couple of swift skating thirty goal scorers. We just don’t have the skill level to go toe to toe with some of the finesse teams. Unfortunately we have to be more like the old time NJ Devils and play boring defensive  hockey and just wait for the other team to make a mistake and win the low scoring games.

[RonJeremy]

3 hours ago, CoachX said:

Im reading stories that the Flyers and Jets have been talking recently about Laine

 

I already know many want know part of him. But, lets assume the Flyers dont listen to us. What does it take tto get him?

Of course they would start by asking for Sanheim or Myers plus Frost or Farabee, plus a first round pick. If they were willing to take Ghost, Frost and a first round pick, that would not be too bad. It all depends on if other teams are driving the price up. If let’s say, Montreal is offering Domi plus or Vancouver is offering Boeser plus, then our package is just not enough since we are not offering proven players of that caliber . Edmonton has lost one of their top dman for the year Kleifblom, they have the 14th pick, would they give us the 14th for Ghost and Raffl? Ghost at his previuos level would be a fair trade for the 14th pick, but since he has been hurt his value is diminished, so we have to throw in something else. So we could have two first round picks and get two good players or trade both picks to move up and get a better player.

Edited October 5, 2020 by RonJeremy

[mojo1917]

7 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

If let’s say, Montreal is offering Domi plus or Vancouver is offering Boeser plus, then our package is just not enough since we are not offering proven players of that caliber .

Word is the Jets are looking for defense. They're "good" with forwards so, those two particular offers while including younger and maybe better players aren't what the Jets need.

The reason the Jets seem like good trade partners with the Flyers is a hockey trade could improve both teams. Boeser for Laine is trading a Lexus for a BMW, when you actually need an Escalade.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

17 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

I’m not implying they can’t play defense, but they are more known for their skating and offensive skills than for their defensive ability ,but both are solid defensively. I agree that a lack of offense was our biggest problem, but right now we are talking about defensemen so, Braun is not coming back and has to be replaced preferably with a big strong dman who can shut things down and help us clear the crease. The Islanders had an extended vacation in front of our net because Sanheim and Meyers are not strong enough to muscle anyone out. Both need to hit the gym for the next 4 months and add some strength.Ghost is being traded, Morin has barely played hockey in the past three years and with the season starting in January, I just do not see him making the team this season. Friedman is solid , but he is not really the physical, shutdown kinda guy we need.I think we need another physical defenseman with some size. If we improve our goals against a bit more, we can win more games that way, since we can’t skate with teams like Tampa and the Isles, we need to be more of a team that wins on team play,  hard work, defense and goaltending . It’s easier to get a shutdown dman than to find a couple of swift skating thirty goal scorers. We just don’t have the skill level to go toe to toe with some of the finesse teams. Unfortunately we have to be more like the old time NJ Devils and play boring defensive  hockey and just wait for the other team to make a mistake and win the low scoring games.

 

I'll differ on this one. The Flyers got killed by defensemen that could handle and move the puck well. The Islanders defense absolutely killed them on that. Not only could the defensemen handle the puck, but the forwards knew where to be when the puck was being moved. Even crease clearing was a team role. If the Flyers commit to the system, it can work. Here's another thing - Robert Hagg, the designated 'crease clearer' and 'shutdown' guy, was the 199th rated defenseman out of 199 full time defensemen in the NHL. The worst of the bunch. An elite shutdown guy shouldn't be the worst rated defenseman in the league, yet Hagg pulled it off. 

 

No, there's enough physicality in the defense lineup with Myers, Sanheim and Provorov (Provorov is a fantastic body checker who is smart about when to lower the boom and Sanheim and Myers are getting there). Add in another defenseman that can teach them how to use the body effectively and the Flyers are good. Just continue signing guys that can skate, handle the puck and move it like it's a puck and not a grenade and they're in good shape.

 

As for Niskanen retiring, that's a big chunk of salary freed up. If they move Gostisbehere as well, that's just about $10 million in salary right there. I'd love to see them make a run a Pietrangelo, but I think he's got his heart set on going to Las Vegas. Anyways, there's money to play with now and teams will be calling. 

[RonJeremy]

9 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Word is the Jets are looking for defense. They're "good" with forwards so, those two particular offers while including younger and maybe better players aren't what the Jets need.

The reason the Jets seem like good trade partners with the Flyers is a hockey trade could improve both teams. Boeser for Laine is trading a Lexus for a BMW, when you actually need an Escalade.

Ok, so if Ghost is something they want, then you have to figure Frost and a first round pick is also something they want but I am sure they prefer Sanheim or Meyers.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

7 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Word is the Jets are looking for defense. They're "good" with forwards so, those two particular offers while including younger and maybe better players aren't what the Jets need.

The reason the Jets seem like good trade partners with the Flyers is a hockey trade could improve both teams. Boeser for Laine is trading a Lexus for a BMW, when you actually need an Escalade.

 

I don't want any part of Laine. He's Zherdev 2.0, but with a shot. If he won't play defense in Winnipeg, he won't play defense in Philadelphia. I'd love Kyle Conner, but that's a huge cost and I'm not comfortable at all if the team gives up one of the big three on the roster for him and I'm not sure Winnipeg would move him.

 

Boeser is always hurt. Not only hurt, but back problems. I'm not sure if everyone is old enough, but back problems ruined John LeClair and back problems ruined Ryan Parent (who had the potential to be an elite defenseman, but his back was so bad that he could barely bend over to tie his skates at one point). 

 

I honestly don't want the Flyers to target any young forwards. They already have a problem working the young forward prospects they have into the lineup.