Flyers 2020-21 season

[CoachX]

On 11/9/2020 at 8:10 AM, RonJeremy said:

I agree, we definitely need a big  tough winger who can crash the net and who has finishing ability. Since we lost Hartnell and Simmons, we have been lacking in that area. Hopefully in a year or two Ratcliffe can be our big finisher on the left side with Allison on the right. We have some skilled smaller goal scorers with guys like Brink, Farabee and Desoyners and one more big finisher , Foerester, so if all works out we can have a nice blend up front. Between injuries and COVID a lot of our prospects lost valuable development time and several would  be contributing to the team by now. Rubstov, Patrick , O’Brien,  Morin, Allison and Laberge all have been set back big time. That’s four first round picks and two second round picks. Talk about bad luck, that’s a lot of prime draft picks that so far have not worked out for us, so far.

so we are back to being two years away from being two years away. That makes G, Jake and Coots 4 years older. By then TK will lead the team with 25 goals and we will be losing defensemen to contracts and the desire to play for a teams competing for a cup

 

the experts are correct, we have a great farm system. problem is, its for the rest of the NHL and not the Flyers

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

im pretty sure the Flyers have a good coaching staff, and he still sucks

I know we deal in opinions here, but the the players stats don't back this one up.

 

Also, I thought I made it pretty clear I'm not on the JvR band wagon, I've said at various times over the past whatever years, including in this thread he hasn't lived up to his #2 overall draft status.

 

I'm not a fan, I wish he were "better". Prior to breaking his (hand)? this past season, he was playing very well. The team was playing extremely well. His contribution down the line up was important to that success, even if he isn't what we think he should be, he isn't a bad hockey player.

And with that enjoy the last word, because he really isn't worth a whole lot of typing- for or against IMO.

[CoachX]

there are 3 types of lies: Lies! Damn Lies! and Stats (i'm not calling you a liar)

 

Statistically Claude Giroux has been a great flyer. Reality, he has disappointed in the playoffs and won 0 cups

 

we ARE dealing in opinions and no one said you are in the JVR band wagon. Dont get so defensive. My opinion is JVR sucks. By your own statement he has not played at level worthy of his draft position, and is not playing at a level worthy of his contract (both points I agree with). So any stat you produce will not meet that level, and therefore solidifies his suckage, IMHO.

 

My post was just meant as a discussion on your position that these coaches are 1) good, 2) good enough to get the best out of him, and 3) are we seeing the best he can do based on who the coaches are

 

 

[mojo1917]

17 hours ago, CoachX said:

there are 3 types of lies: Lies! Damn Lies! and Stats (i'm not calling you a liar)

 

Statistically Claude Giroux has been a great flyer. Reality, he has disappointed in the playoffs and won 0 cups

 

we ARE dealing in opinions and no one said you are in the JVR band wagon. Dont get so defensive. My opinion is JVR sucks. By your own statement he has not played at level worthy of his draft position, and is not playing at a level worthy of his contract (both points I agree with). So any stat you produce will not meet that level, and therefore solidifies his suckage, IMHO.

 

My post was just meant as a discussion on your position that these coaches are 1) good, 2) good enough to get the best out of him, and 3) are we seeing the best he can do based on who the coaches are

 

 

Okay then, let's discuss one, two, and three then.

I do think the Flyers coaches are by order of magnitude better than the detritus preceding them. 

 

I also think they have figured out where to play 25 so he can contribute, which he was doing until he broke his hand. 

The Flyers third line were working teams before the COVID pause, JvR was a big reason why, he was scoring and driving play. Those guys flipped possession a lot. The best JvR can do is contribute his 20-30 goals and 50 points from a depth position. When you have a 20 goal guy on the third the line....the team is most likely pretty good. 

 

Would also like to add...we've seen some bad players in our sweater recently. 

Chris Vandevelde, Jori Lehtera, Dale Wiesse and end stage Andrew MacDonald.

Those guys were bad NHL players, they sucked.

 

JvR is of a different ilk.

We have common ground, I reckon I don't think "sucks" is an apt descriptor for JvR and that is where we diverge.

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by mojo1917
compelled to hate on Dale Weisse

[Podein25]

27 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

We have common ground

 

NARRATOR: they do not

[RonJeremy]

On 11/15/2020 at 8:50 AM, mojo1917 said:

The guy is not my favorite player either, he hasn't had a #2 overall draft pick type career, especially for the Flyers.

That said. JvR is one of the team's better 5 v 5 play drivers. He does much better in a 3rd line role where his ability is an advantage. 

His contract is not good, especially for the role and minutes he plays. He's a guy that a good coaching staff will get the most out of, if he can stay healthy he'll get his goals & points, teams need goals and point to win. 

JVR is not the kinda guy who will turn a game around on his own, but if he is put with some creative playmakers , he can be a good goal scorer. He needs someone to set him up, so if Patrick comes in and plays well and Farabee is the other wing maybe JVR can make an impact. JVR had only one stretch of truly inspired play in his career, which was against the Bruins in 2010 playoffs, he was driving to the net with authority and scoring goals , he looked like he was gonna be great, the fans were chanting JVR!  Unfortunately he never showed that kind of effort again. There is a good you tube video of that for those who didn’t see the series or forgot.

[RonJeremy]

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Okay then, let's discuss one, two, and three then.

I do think the Flyers coaches are by order of magnitude better than the detritus preceding them. 

 

I also think they have figured out where to play 25 so he can contribute, which he was doing until he broke his hand. 

The Flyers third line were working teams before the COVID pause, JvR was a big reason why, he was scoring and driving play. Those guys flipped possession a lot. The best JvR can do is contribute his 20-30 goals and 50 points from a depth position. When you have a 20 goal guy on the third the line....the team is most likely pretty good. 

 

Would also like to add...we've seen some bad players in our sweater recently. 

Chris Vandevelde, Jori Lehtera, Dale Wiesse and end stage Andrew MacDonald.

Those guys were bad NHL players, they sucked.

 

JvR is of a different ilk.

We have common ground, I reckon I don't think "sucks" is an apt descriptor for JvR and that is where we diverge.

 

 

 

Let’s not say JVR sucks, let’s say he is not assertive enough, he has skill,  but it seems he loses his confidence easily and has a very laid back personality ,which carries over on the ice. He lacks ferocity and determination, but you can’t turn a mellow , hey dude kinda guy into a ferocious lion on the ice. If he had just a little bit more determination he would have been a very good player. To sum it up,  JVR just does not have “The Attitude” , for those familiar with Fast Times at Ridgemont, no matter how much Damone coached Rat, he was still a wuss and would never have the attitude.

Edited November 16, 2020 by RonJeremy

[CoachX]

Based on reading the last few posts, I agree JVR can be a valuable 3rd line player.

 

I still say he sucks because he was supposed to be more than that , and was in Toronto. So he is a huge disappointment.  Im my distorted world disappointment and suck are synonymous 

[OccamsRazor]

Hhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

 

 

[RonJeremy]

3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Hhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

 

 

Looks like a pajama top. I would have preferred the classic 1975 burnt orange with the white lettering.

[Zzeke]

6 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Hhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

 

 

New here.

Would you guys consider this jersey for our Flyers?

The coool Phantoms jersey - - the rare one-off jersey that is all black and only the logo, number, and players' name are in orange outline.

It would be a great Flyers jersey with Flyers logo.

We can see it here:

Morgan Frost photo in the one-off black jersey:

 

 

[RonJeremy]

That’s a pretty cool black jersey, I like it better than the new pajama top jersey.

[Zzeke]

Some feel that not enough was done in the off-season to improve our Flyers team while other teams in our division made moves.

 

However, our Flyers are much improved from last season as a result of:

1) The addition of Lindblom and potentially Patrick.
2) Other young players have not yet peaked and will get better and better: Konecny, Farabee, NAK, Bunnaman, Sanheim, Myers, Provorov, Hart.
3) The possibility, depending on circumstances, of one of these skill forward prospects making the team: Sandin, Frost, Allison. Sandin has a real chance to make the Flyers out of Camp. He is a mature 24 yo with pro experience in the SHL. He is a goal scorer and plays a well rounded 3-zone 200' game.

4) The 6-man defence - - next post.

 

The reminder from GM Fletcher - don't draw conclusions from the small sample size of the 13 games of the Bubble Playoffs. This is a very good team.

 

Our Flyers last season were 7th in the 31-team NHL in 'goals scored' (They played 1 and 2 games less than the two teams ahead of them, and could easily have been 5th in the League). This team will score.

 

 

The 2020-21 Season (actually 2021 Season) looks bright for our Flyers.
 

[Zzeke]

Our Flyers defence:

 

Adding Gustafsson - 

 

We won't be surprised to see AV keep the advantage of having twin towers Sanheim and Myers continued to be paired. They played together with the Phantoms and the Flyers. Knowing your partner well in traits/tendancies/abilities is a big plus. Work in the defensive zone puck retrieval and break-out becomes automatic and efficient.

 

In this emerging New Era NHL defence corps, our Flyers may be on the leading edge.

GM Fletcher's recent comments are a hint of what may come:

 

>> "[Gustafsson] has tremendous deception with the puck, tremendous poise," general manager Chuck Fletcher said. "We don't have a defenseman that sees the ice like he does, he can play on the power play. It's a different type of skill set than Matt ... there wasn't going to be that ability to replace Matt per se with the same style."

 

Gustafsson scored 29 points (six goals, 23 assists) in 66 games for the Calgary Flames and Chicago Blackhawks last season. In 2018-19, he tied for third among NHL defensemen with 17 goals for Chicago. <<

 

>> "We think his [Gustafsson] skill set meshes really well with what we need," Fletcher said. "We think we have a lot of strong defenders on our team and we're very structured defensively as a group. His skill set, his ability to go back on pucks and make good decisions and transition the puck up the ice, we thought was a very important element to add to our group." <<

 

GM Fletcher: >> "Gustafsson’s just got tremendous deception and vision. I think he generates offense a little bit differently than Ghost. I think Provorov’s elite defensively. Sanheim and Myers in my opinion will become elite shutdown defensemen in this league. Justin Braun is an elite defender [defensively]. Hägg is a good defender. So why not have a couple guys that can spring your offense? If we can defend less, that would be a great thing." <<

 

These statements are a big hint to what Fletcher and AV are planning. Leading edge.

The 'new era NHL' approach to the defence corps - - multiple defencemen who are very mobile, fast/quick, puck-moving out of the D-zone, join-the-rush, and can put up solid offensive numbers (in addition to being competent defensively).

 

'New Era NHL defencemen' fitting this mold - 4 out of the 6: Provorov, Gustafsson, Sanheim, Myers - - with Hagg and Braun excellent defensively - positionally, physical, hits, board-work, shot blocking. 

 

This 'New Era NHL' approach to the defence corps - our Flyers are on the leading edge - with Gus now and Zamula, Wylie, and York coming.

 

A guess to what we will see in the December Camp:

 

Provorov - Gustafsson
Sanheim - Myers (RH)
Hagg - Braun (RH)
#7 - Friedman (RH)

(Ghost traded well before the June Expansion Draft)

 

Top 2 pairs - - puck-moving defencemen - - mobile, quick, move the puck up ice and selectively join the rush. And 3 of them are young (23,24,23), far from their peak, and will get better and better.

 

And, if Gus plays well in this abreviated 2021 season, Fletcher has the advantage of not losing Gus in the expansion Draft because Gus will be a UFA, he won't be selected by Seattle. Assuming Fletcher will talk with Gus and his agent in the later stage of the season, before the June Expansion Draft, and assuming after his excellent first year with the Flyers, Gus will want a multiple-year contract, this will be to Fletcher's and our Flyers' advantage.

 

All IMHO.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

10 hours ago, Zzeke said:

New here.

Would you guys consider this jersey for our Flyers?

The coool Phantoms jersey - - the rare one-off jersey that is all black and only the logo, number, and players' name are in orange outline.

It would be a great Flyers jersey with Flyers logo.

We can see it here:

Morgan Frost photo in the one-off black jersey:

 

 

 

As a 3rd jersey i would be ok with a black jersey with a Flyer logo that was black and traced in orange.

[CoachX]

9 hours ago, Zzeke said:

Some feel that not enough was done in the off-season to improve our Flyers team while other teams in our division made moves.

 

However, our Flyers are much improved from last season as a result of:

1) The addition of Lindblom and potentially Patrick.
2) Other young players have not yet peaked and will get better and better: Konecny, Farabee, NAK, Bunnaman, Sanheim, Myers, Provorov, Hart.
3) The possibility, depending on circumstances, of one of these skill forward prospects making the team: Sandin, Frost, Allison. Sandin has a real chance to make the Flyers out of Camp. He is a mature 24 yo with pro experience in the SHL. He is a goal scorer and plays a well rounded 3-zone 200' game.

4) The 6-man defence - - next post.

 

The reminder from GM Fletcher - don't draw conclusions from the small sample size of the 13 games of the Bubble Playoffs. This is a very good team.

 

Our Flyers last season were 7th in the 31-team NHL in 'goals scored' (They played 1 and 2 games less than the two teams ahead of them, and could easily have been 5th in the League). This team will score.

 

 

The 2020-21 Season (actually 2021 Season) looks bright for our Flyers.
 

Welcome aboard!

 

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but I can't share it. Unless they make some other significant move on offense, I don't see the team as better.

 

Lindblom and Patrick are question marks, especially Patrick. Konecny is good, but I don't expect much more than what he did last season. So that brings us to Farabee, NAK and Bunnaman. Farabee isn't going to be an impact player. NAK  (EARMUFFS O.C. !) is a nice player, but unproven. He could be a 20 goal guy, or a 10 goal guy. Either way, probably not top 6. As for players like Bunnaman, the team is full of them, and if that is a hope, I fear its HOPEless. As for all the rookies, we are "still two years away". The defense will be good, and the goalie stellar. But unless they can win like NJ did in the 90's, I don't see much improvement

 

... I still think we Laine will be a Flyer. If so, ignore all I said here.

 

...... actually, you'd be wise to ignore it anyway

 

 

[CoachX]

On 11/16/2020 at 2:35 PM, OccamsRazor said:

Hhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

 

 

i hate it

[Podein25]

17 minutes ago, CoachX said:

i hate it

 

In fairness, there's isn't much that you *don't* hate.

[CoachX]

2 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

In fairness, there's isn't much that you *don't* hate.

I'm calling BS!

 

i like bourbon....and

 

well, more bourbon....

 

ah, Fck it! I got nothing else

[RonJeremy]

2 hours ago, CoachX said:

Welcome aboard!

 

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but I can't share it. Unless they make some other significant move on offense, I don't see the team as better.

 

Lindblom and Patrick are question marks, especially Patrick. Konecny is good, but I don't expect much more than what he did last season. So that brings us to Farabee, NAK and Bunnaman. Farabee isn't going to be an impact player. NAK  (EARMUFFS O.C. !) is a nice player, but unproven. He could be a 20 goal guy, or a 10 goal guy. Either way, probably not top 6. As for players like Bunnaman, the team is full of them, and if that is a hope, I fear its HOPEless. As for all the rookies, we are "still two years away". The defense will be good, and the goalie stellar. But unless they can win like NJ did in the 90's, I don't see much improvement

 

... I still think we Laine will be a Flyer. If so, ignore all I said here.

 

...... actually, you'd be wise to ignore it anyway

 

 

We have “potential” for next season, you are right about the question marks, so either we can be better if  Patrick and Lindblom play well , but guys like Farabee , NAK and Konecny need to also take it to the next level, if they don’t we will be worse. Losing Niskanen is a big loss. Gustafsson is a potential replacement for Ghost, but there is no replacement for Niskanen. The coaching staff talks it up like Braun can step up, but if Niskanen didn’t retire Braun would be unemployed.  I look around this room and see a lot of potential....you have potential and you have potential...

[mojo1917]

On 11/16/2020 at 4:35 PM, OccamsRazor said:

Hhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

 

 

 

I think these are terrible looking, I hate them. I own the Primeau era black sweater, it hangs, buried  in my closet behind my snow gear because it is plain and where it isn't plain it's ugly. So this abomination gets leaked and I think, "who ****** thought this would be a good idea?" once again proving that my taste is outta touch with most of societies. 

The only way I consider not hating them is if the team is undefeated while wearing them and they win the Stanley Cup.

Even then, I will still hate the way they look. 

 

ick

[mojo1917]

@Zzeke

 

I share your optimism. 

If the young guys continue to improve and the guys making bank play to expectations this team will be very good.

 

Given his track record, I think AV has about 3 years with this group, then depending on how the team turns over from Giroux, Voracek, JvR to Patrick, Lindblom, Frost maybe the team has a second bump, who knows if AV's message will still resonate. It seems like he has adjusted well to the new NHL player though. 

 

I sincerely look forward to watching the team again. I think they can be good, they're entertaining again and that's a big plus. 

[fan4ever]

@RonJeremy

 

I must say, you have the BEST pictures!! 

 

Thanks for the smile!!!!

 

Cheers!

[Zzeke]

15 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

We have “potential” for next season, you are right about the question marks, so either we can be better if  Patrick and Lindblom play well , but guys like Farabee , NAK and Konecny need to also take it to the next level, if they don’t we will be worse. Losing Niskanen is a big loss. Gustafsson is a potential replacement for Ghost, but there is no replacement for Niskanen. The coaching staff talks it up like Braun can step up, but if Niskanen didn’t retire Braun would be unemployed.  I look around this room and see a lot of potential....you have potential and you have potential...

>> no replacement for Niskanen <<

 

In reading all the transcripts of Fletcher/Flahr/AV media conferences of the last few months, it seems like they are thinking of a more up-pace defensive corp that is competent in the D-zone but also has speed/quickness/smarts in quickly exiting the D-zone and joining the rush.

 

>> Erik Gustafsson wasn't signed to replace Matt Niskanen, but the Philadelphia Flyers feel the 28-year-old defenseman can give them something they were lacking.

 

"[Gustafsson] has tremendous deception with the puck, tremendous poise," general manager Chuck Fletcher said. "We don't have a defenseman that sees the ice like he does, he can play on the power play. It's a different type of skill set than Matt ... there wasn't going to be that ability to replace Matt per se with the same style." <<

 

>> "We think his (Gustafsson) skill set meshes really well with what we need," Fletcher said. "We think we have a lot of strong defenders on our team and we're very structured defensively as a group. His skill set, his ability to go back on pucks and make good decisions and transition the puck up the ice, we thought was a very important element to add to our group." <<

 

The 'new era NHL' approach to the defence corps - - multiple defencemen who are very mobile, fast/quick, puck-moving out of the D-zone, join-the-rush, and can put up solid offensive numbers (in addition to being competent defensively). We now have 4 of these.

Maybe it will work.

Provorov - Gustafsson

Sanheim - Myers (RH)

Hagg - Braun (RH)

#7 - Friedman (RH)

Instead of looking at losing an excellent defenceman in Niskanen, who complements/protects Provorov, and saying Gustafsson doesn't replace Niskenen -

- - can we say that actually now Provorov replaces Niskanen and the skilled Gustafsson replaces Provorov in role for that pair?

JMHO

[RonJeremy]

3 hours ago, Zzeke said:

>> no replacement for Niskanen <<

 

In reading all the transcripts of Fletcher/Flahr/AV media conferences of the last few months, it seems like they are thinking of a more up-pace defensive corp that is competent in the D-zone but also has speed/quickness/smarts in quickly exiting the D-zone and joining the rush.

 

>> Erik Gustafsson wasn't signed to replace Matt Niskanen, but the Philadelphia Flyers feel the 28-year-old defenseman can give them something they were lacking.

 

"[Gustafsson] has tremendous deception with the puck, tremendous poise," general manager Chuck Fletcher said. "We don't have a defenseman that sees the ice like he does, he can play on the power play. It's a different type of skill set than Matt ... there wasn't going to be that ability to replace Matt per se with the same style." <<

 

>> "We think his (Gustafsson) skill set meshes really well with what we need," Fletcher said. "We think we have a lot of strong defenders on our team and we're very structured defensively as a group. His skill set, his ability to go back on pucks and make good decisions and transition the puck up the ice, we thought was a very important element to add to our group." <<

 

The 'new era NHL' approach to the defence corps - - multiple defencemen who are very mobile, fast/quick, puck-moving out of the D-zone, join-the-rush, and can put up solid offensive numbers (in addition to being competent defensively). We now have 4 of these.

Maybe it will work.

Provorov - Gustafsson

Sanheim - Myers (RH)

Hagg - Braun (RH)

#7 - Friedman (RH)

Instead of looking at losing an excellent defenceman in Niskanen, who complements/protects Provorov, and saying Gustafsson doesn't replace Niskenen -

- - can we say that actually now Provorov replaces Niskanen and the skilled Gustafsson replaces Provorov in role for that pair?

JMHO

If it works , I am all for it,  but I think Braun is the real weak link. I wouldn’t be surprised if we try to get another defensive  defenseman, but they would have to trade Ghost first.