Flyers 2020-21 season

[OccamsRazor]

5 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

If it works , I am all for it,  but I think Braun is the real weak link.

 

I agree i was and am still not happy they resigned him in a knee jerk reaction to Matt hanging them up.

 

He was putrid in the playoffs and is turning 34 mid soon and i can't see him getting better.

 

I would have preferred to go into the season leaning more on Friedman and Morin (who is unproven at this point) than to have brought him back.

 

21 hours ago, CoachX said:

NAK  (EARMUFFS O.C. !) is a nice player, but unproven. He could be a 20 goal guy, or a 10 goal guy. Either way, probably not top 6.

 

I can live with that, 3rd line RW and maybe adding 20 goals and some sand paper 5 on 5 is a much needed asset.

 

Those type with this baby poo soft team have a place in the new age Broad Street-less bullies of 2021.

[Zzeke]

Flyers Now - Because of NHL Expansion Draft June 2021

 

Decisions on Flyers personnel being made this off-season are made with an eye on the Expansion Draft as well as other issues such as Cap Management. 

 

Example: signing defenceman Gustafsson for only 1 season:

 

- advantage Flyers - if Gus was signed for multiple years, and assuming Fletcher would opt for the Protected List 7F/3D/1G choice, Provorov/Sanheim/Myers would be set, and Gus would be vulnerable to be selected by Seattle. Not so with Gus on a 1-year contract because Gus would be a pending UFA at the June Expansion Draft (UFA on 7/1/21). Most likely, Seattle will not select pending UFAs in the Expansion Draft. And, our Flyers would have a shot at signing him after the Expansion Draft if mutual interest.*

 

- advantage Flyers - it gives Fletcher/AV a chance to evaluate Gus over the assumed 60 game 2020-21 season, plus playoffs, without commiting to a mult-year contract.

 

* There is obvious risk. On 7/1/21 Gus will be a UFA.  Illegal 3rd-party tampering could happen with a Seattle represenative contacting Gus' agent prior to 7/1/21 and then have a 'telephone handshake agreement' for a contract. 

 

Assuming Gus has played very well for AV's team, and our Flyers want Gus back for a multi-year 'stay' contract, and assuming Gus likes it here, Fletcher could 'pay' Gus with a new contract. All this without losing him in the Expansion Draft.

 

A shot at our Flyers Protected List 7F/3D/1G:

1) Giroux F (NMC)
2) Hayes F (NMC)
3) Couturier F
4) Konecny F
5) Patrick F
6) Lindblom F
7) Aube-Kubel F
1) Provorov D
2) Sanheim D
3) Myers D
1) Carter G

 

Exposed List:
van Riemsdyk (Age 32, Cap Hit 7M)
Voracek (Age 32, Cap Hit 8.25M)
Bunnaman F
Twarynski F
Kase F
Hagg D
Morin D
Friedman D

 

Exempt:
First and Second year Pro (at June 2021)
Farabee F 2nd year
Frost F 2nd year
Ustimenko G 2nd year
Sandstrom G 2nd year

 

Don't have to consider protecting - Laughton, Raffl, Gustafsson because they will be pending UFAs and could be re-signed after the June Expansion Draft, if mutual.

 

The disagreement may be regarding protecting Voracek or NAK. IMO, protect NAK for reasons of stage-of-career, age, and Cap Hit. IMO, high probability Seattle does not select the exposed Voracek. If they do - okay - it opens up a top-9 spot for a prospect such as Frost (C) or Allison (RW) - (assuming Sandin already on the team for 2020-21).

 

Crunch Time - 

 

Should our Flyers protect Voracek or NAK? Or JVR??

 

The Expansion Draft rules dictate that the Kracken must take one player from each of the 31 teams.

 

Under this Flyers Protected List and Exposed List (above), who do we think Seattle will take? 

[Zzeke]

Only 3 weeks away - - Flyers Camp!

 

REPORT:

The NHL and NHLPA are reportedly now looking at having a 60-game season.

Although Jan. 1 has been set as the tentative start date for the NHL campaign for a while, the hope has still been to have an 82-game season.

 

Recently, it's looked more like the NHL is interested in shortening the campaign for the sake of avoiding having much summer hockey and now we're getting an idea just how much they're considering shortening the season by.

 

The idea right now is that the NHL will still start on Jan. 1st and award the Cup by July 15 at the latest. If that happens, then the campaign would have dragged on longer than normal, but not by a ton and it would be theoretically possible for the 2021-22 campaign to start on time.

 

Keep in mind this is all still subject to change. The NHL and NHLPA are still in talks and on top of that, a 16-player Return To Play committee has been convening nearly daily over the last week to discuss the matter internally. There is reportedly hope that an agreement can be reached in the next 7-10 days. As has been the case throughout the pandemic, everything is still subject to change.

 

SOURCE: Pierre LeBrun on Twitter

Nov 17, 2020, 1:42 PM ET

 

[Zzeke]

I'm the new kid on the block. Like it here. Some excellent posters. Thx.

 

If I may present a question - - 

 

What one 'new' player would you like to see on this Flyers team, out of Camp, to start the season - - - that is realistic (ie: not saying Connor McDavid)?

 

My answer is RW Linus Sandin.

 

In the 9/30/20 Press Conference with Fletcher an Flahr - 

 

Do you foresee any of your older first-year pros coming in this season -- Linus Sandin, Wade Allison, and Tanner Laczynski specifically -- to compete for a NHL job this upcoming season? All through are physically mature and 23- or 24-years old.

 

Brent Flahr (BF): First of all, Laczynski and Allison like you said, and Sandin, they’re older players. They’re physically more mature than typically players that are coming out of junior that are 19, 20 years old. Their mindset coming to camp is to make the team. Whether they’re ready for that, it’s up to them and their performance. At the same time, we expect them to help and challenge the internal competition. In reality I would say, I would assume that each of them are going to play [Flyers] games this year. Hopefully one of them grabs it and makes the best of their opportunity.

 

Sandin has four seasons of pro experience in Sweden's top league (SHL). Flahr believes that Allison, Laczynski and Sandin will all come to training camp with the opportunity to crack the NHL roster, either right away or at some point within the 2020-21 season. 

 

Sandin is a scorer. 

Fletcher said the 6-foot-1, 209-pound Sandin will “come into camp and compete for a spot on our team right away. He works extremely hard and we expect him to add size, skill, and tenacity to our forward group.”

 

"He works hard, plays a North American-type game, and goes to the net and gets greasy goals. He always seems to be around the puck and has some tenacity."

 

Last season with HV 71, a top team in the SHL, Sandin had 19 Goals, 17 Assists, 36 Points, in 51 Games.

 

And, there is an opening at 3RW.

 

 

Linus Sandin is a gritty winger. Here he destroys a

Russia defenceman and takes the puck.

 

What one 'new' player would you like to see on this Flyers team, out of Camp, to start the season - - - that is realistic?

 

[hf101]

Welcome @Zzeke to the site.  You've put up some really quality posts.    

 

At this point I would just be happy with being able to have a healthy season.  3 weeks to starting camp doesn't seem like a possibility, at the moment but maybe Feb going though part of the summer wouldn't be such a bad thing.  

 

I'm excited to see what Sandin can do when they take the ice for sure.

[mojo1917]

11 hours ago, Zzeke said:

What one 'new' player would you like to see on this Flyers team, out of Camp, to start the season - - - that is realistic

 

Nolan Patrick.

If his migrane situation can be managed in a fashion similar to Nikalas Backstrom, I think Patrick is poised to wreck the league. 

I know folks will say, well why didn't he come in and tear up the league as a 19 year old ? My answer is two part, he was 19 and this issue was undiagnosed,  no one knew why he'd have "off " days, the go to explanation was "concussion related" which scared everyone, so the kid would hide the symptoms and his play would suffer. ****'s out in the open now. 

He has elite ability, a truly + shot,  he sees the ice well, he is not blindingly fast but he's fast enough that d-men don't want him bearing down on them at the blue line, he has some punk in his game and a chip on his shoulder because he couldn't play and couldn't play the way he wants to.

I think he's going to live up to his #2 overall draft pick status. 

 

[Zzeke]

23 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

 

Nolan Patrick.

If his migrane situation can be managed in a fashion similar to Nikalas Backstrom, I think Patrick is poised to wreck the league. 

I know folks will say, well why didn't he come in and tear up the league as a 19 year old ? My answer is two part, he was 19 and this issue was undiagnosed,  no one knew why he'd have "off " days, the go to explanation was "concussion related" which scared everyone, so the kid would hide the symptoms and his play would suffer. ****'s out in the open now. 

He has elite ability, a truly + shot,  he sees the ice well, he is not blindingly fast but he's fast enough that d-men don't want him bearing down on them at the blue line, he has some punk in his game and a chip on his shoulder because he couldn't play and couldn't play the way he wants to.

I think he's going to live up to his #2 overall draft pick status. 

 

Good stuff mojo. Agree. Hopefully his health is improved. AV will keep Patrick at Center (3C) to minimize his time along the wall (concussion prone?).

 

Below are some reminders of what a healthy Patrick would mean to our Flyers - 

 

November 11 article by Jordan Hall on Patrick - - it's encouraging. 

Excerpts:

 

>> Ryan White has helped organize a group of players for scrimmages and on-ice workouts at Brandon Community Sportsplex.

 

"I started running some skates on Tuesdays for the guys, just so we had somewhere for the pro guys to all skate," [Playing for the Flyers], it’s about competing.

 

"That was the first thing I learned of being in Philly was when you’ve got a captain like Claude Giroux, he’s not going to go out there and run guys over every night, but Claude’s going to want the puck and he’s going to do whatever he can to get the puck. To me, that just runs through the team like wildfire, you’ve got guys like Jake Voracek and Wayne Simmonds when I played there, these guys who really instilled what a Flyer was meant to be like.

 

"That’s the first thing I see in Nolan, he brings that — for a skilled guy, his tenacity on the puck, the way he wants it. He’s been in a couple of scuffles here in the scrimmages and it’s just based on his compete level, he just wants that puck more than other guys."

 

He's [White] not surprised Patrick was a top-two pick in 2017.

 

"When he does get that puck, that’s the second part of him," White said. "There are a lot of great players out there, but there are not a lot of guys who can really turn it up to that next level. That’s what I see in him in some days, is he’s got that next level. There are pros and there are great players, and then there’s another level of guys who can do some things that you’re like, ‘OK, what’s going on here, how did he do that? Why did he do that?’ I think he’s got another level to his game there, just offensively with the puck, he attacks guys, he tends to put guys in bad positions to expose them, he’s always drawing extra guys to him to get his linemates the puck.

 

"I think the best part about him is he competes. We’ve been playing these scrimmages, he’s hard in the circle, he wins his faceoffs, he wants the puck, he knows he needs to start with it; sometimes you can’t teach that stuff. There are a lot of great skilled players out there but they need to play with that tenacity and that drive to really get to that next level. That’s probably the biggest thing I notice in him.

 

“Having Nolan out there, it’s been really good for a lot of the younger guys just to see what an elite player is," White said. "We have a lot of great NHLers here from Brandon. The one thing maybe we don’t have is that really top, top-end player. To have a guy like him out there, we’ve been out there for six to seven weeks now skating with him, some things I see him do in practice, it just blows my mind and I can’t imagine what some of these young kids think about it.

 

"Honestly, man, I know the Flyer faithful, I know they’re upset that he’s not playing, I know they’re giving it to him for not playing. But you’ve got to think of it in this sense: this guy’s a Flyer, he plays the right way, he plays hard like that all the time. 

 

"And when he’s going to feel healthy and he’s going to feel good, he’s going to be a great player for them. You don’t go second overall for no reason, he’s got a ton of skill, he’s won a WHL championship, led that team there.

 

"The kid’s got what it takes to be a great player. As a young player in [the NHL], it’s not an easy league, especially when you’re not healthy. And if you’re not healthy, he’s got to get healthy and then from then on, I think he’s going to be a great player. It just takes time. He’s in a perfect situation with a guy like Claude Giroux who’s going to definitely show him the way. As the way I would see it and I’m sure Chuck Fletcher sees it, hopefully Nolan Patrick’s the next Claude Giroux." <<

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Fletcher:
"It’s been a tough go for the young man [Patrick]. He continues to get better and make progress. That’s the good thing. At this stage, it certainly looks like he’s going to get his quality of life back. Hopefully he’ll be able to come back and play hockey for us. He’s a real important part. I think as we saw in the playoffs, the ability to have three quality center that can play 200-feet and produce offensively is incredibly important. He’s a big part of that future for us."

 

AV:
"Basically only knowing Oskar for three months and with Nolan Patrick, I’ve basically never seen. He’s been in a couple little drills here and there. Hopefully both those young men come back when the season starts, healthy. If they are healthy, I’m told that there’s a tremendous amount of potential in Patrick’s case. - - "

 

A perceptive writer:
>> Remember that Patrick had a second abdominal surgery right before the draft and may not have been fully healed during his rookie campaign. In his second season Patrick suffered a concussion. While he did suit up again that season, there is speculation that he was never quite well.  Could this have been the onset of his migraine disorder?

 

Depth
A healthy Patrick would enhance the team’s strengths. In other words, I would not expect Patrick to become a 50-goal scorer, but Patrick would give the team even more scoring depth, and another possible creator on the powerplay. In an offense by committee team, the goal is to defeat the opponent by a thousand paper cuts, rather than by big games by big stars. These teams are less likely to go through prolonged offensive slumps because the chances of the majority of the team going cold at once is slim.

 

Patrick, if healthy, would give the team another capable scorer who could exploit favorable match ups and provide offense for the team. Patrick would not need to score 30 goals, this should not be the expectation although it is possible, but contribute by scoring 15+ goals on the third line. If he can do that it would bode well for team success.

 

If Patrick is able to manage his migraine disorder, we may be getting the best version yet of Nolan Patrick. If this is so, how could he fit in may be the real key to improving the Flyers. It would seem that Patrick would be the favorite to grab the 3C spot, which could allow Scott Laughton to move to 4C or better yet over to the wing. Once Laughton is free to move, the down line possibilities are really exciting. One thing is for sure, a healthy Nolan Patrick makes a bright future even brighter. <<

 

[CoachX]

14 hours ago, Zzeke said:

What one 'new' player would you like to see on this Flyers team, out of Camp, to start the season - - - that is realistic (ie: not saying Connor McDavid)?

Patrik Laine

[Zzeke]

15 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Patrik Laine

 

Ah, like it CX.

 

TSN's Darren Dreger recently said on the Insider Trading podcast that the Winnipeg Jets were "serious" and listening to offers on the star forward. Pierre LeBrun of TSN and The Athletic added that both the Columbus Blue Jackets and Carolina Hurricanes have interest in Laine, with Carolina already inquiring before balking at Winnipeg's asking price.

 

What would be a good trade deal for both teams - Flyers and Winnepeg - a win/win?

 

Winnepeg is rumored to want a young defenceman, as part of a package, in return - such as Sanheim or Myers (Provorov is untouchable).

 

Give up either of these defencemen? IMO, proven quality young defencemen like Sanheim and Myers are more valuable, and harder to get, than quality forwards. (This Flyers team will score goals. They were 5th in the NHL in goals last regular season and are improved with Lindblom, hopefully Patrick, and the growth of 6 young players that have not yet hit their peak.)

 

To get Laine by including Sanheim or Myers in the package, knowing that Zamula, York, and Wylie are coming, is a big risk. Tempting, but very risky.

 

Laine is on his last year of his contract for a Cap Hit of 6.75 M. He will be an RFA on 7/1/21. He and his agent will probably want 8+ M. (For reference, Giroux is at 8.75 M and Voracek at 8.5 M.) So, Cap Management comes into play.

 

In the end, I don't think Fletcher moves Sanheim or Myers. They both are 'big' mobile defencemen with quality play in the D-zone and have good offensive skills - - and both are young and far from their peak.

 

Still, CX, to get Laine would be awesome. Tempting. Is jersey number 29 available?

 

Any ideas on a package that would be a win-win for both teams?

 

 

 

[CoachX]

Ghost, Laughton and Patrick

 

or ...

 

Ghost, Laughton and a 1st

[Zzeke]

10 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Ghost, Laughton and Patrick

or ...

Ghost, Laughton and a 1st

 

Winnipeg is Patrick's home town where he is super popular. Perceptive by you.

 

Wonder if Winnipeg normally has trouble drawing fans?

 

Wonder if Winnipeg's GM would take the risk of Patrick's health?

 

Moving Patrick would open-up a Center spot for Frost (it's not clear how Frost would play at wing or if he has played at wing.)

 

Can you believe this:

Lindblom-Couturier-Laine
Farabee-Hayes-Konecny
Giroux-Frost-Voracek
Laughton-Bunnaman-Aube Kubel (ideal AV 4th line)
#13-Raffl

 

[OccamsRazor]

54 minutes ago, Zzeke said:

Wonder if Winnipeg's GM would take the risk of Patrick's health?

 

Laine is a risk too if we're being honest.

 

I have heard for years about how lazy he was preferring to play video games instead of taking his profession seriously.

 

So that is a risk to me.

 

Welcome aboard by the way.

[OccamsRazor]

On 11/16/2020 at 11:59 AM, RonJeremy said:

JVR is not the kinda guy who will turn a game around on his own, but if he is put with some creative playmakers , he can be a good goal scorer.

 

I seen this video today...

 

 

....and I couldn't help but thinking of your mention of it and well it and JVR came to mind....

[RonJeremy]

3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I seen this video today...

 

 

....and I couldn't help but thinking of your mention of it and well it and JVR came to mind....

LOL, here’s another great one..

 

[CoachX]

20 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Laine is a risk too if we're being honest.

 

I have heard for years about how lazy he was preferring to play video games instead of taking his profession seriously.

 

So that is a risk to me.

 

Welcome aboard by the way.

Lazy can be fixed. And if true, look at his production while being lazy. If properly motivated, his ceiling far elipses that of those given away in the trade. I get that a first round pick is an unknown, but if Laine was in this years draft, he'd be the number 1

[Podein25]

20 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Laine is a risk too if we're being honest.

 

Are we being honest? When I look around, I see so much lying going on it's hard to have any faith in people anymore. What basic facts can we agree on? Science? Maybe, for some, for others not so much. 

 

Here's a scientifically-proven fact: Laine is a bum. His preference is to play video games all day. 

 

37 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Lazy can be fixed. And if true, look at his production while being lazy. If properly motivated, his ceiling far elipses that of those given away in the trade. I get that a first round pick is an unknown, but if Laine was in this years draft, he'd be the number 1

 

Disagree on the opening premise. No evidence for it.  

[Zzeke]

19 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Lazy can be fixed. And if true, look at his production while being lazy. If properly motivated, his ceiling far elipses that of those given away in the trade. I get that a first round pick is an unknown, but if Laine was in this years draft, he'd be the number 1

 

Agree. At age 22, he has much room to grow/mature. Surround him with good mentors such as Giroux/Hayes and AV. Sadly, we don't have any Finns on the team for mentorship - - only 4 Swedes (Aha, who are they?).

 

Starting at age 18, Laine's first 4 seasons in the NHL, on a bad team, with average linemates, his goal production:

 

Season - Games - Goals    
2016-17     73        36
2017-18     82        44
2018-19     82        30
2019-20     68        28

 

The key issues that Fletcher is dealing with is 1) trade asset cost, and 2) Cap Management. (Expansion Draft impact should be okay.)

 

Put Laine with quality playmaking linemates, and he may be a 40+ goal scorer for years. Especially considering that at age 22, he has not yet fully matured in committment and drive and has not yet reached his peak. Wow!

 

With CX's trade plan of Ghost, Laughton, and Patrick (and probably a 1st):

 

Lindblom-Couturier-Laine
Farabee-Hayes-Konecny
Giroux-Frost-Voracek
Laughton-Bunnaman-Aube Kubel (ideal AV 4th line)
#13-Raffl
 

 

Is Flyers jersey #29 available?

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

Lazy can be fixed.

 

Yeah how is that working for JVR?

 

I patiently wait for your rebuttal...

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, Podein25 said:

Here's a scientifically-proven fact: Laine is a bum. His preference is to play video games all day. 

 

Not sure I can call it a fact but it looks like that is your long way of saying we agree.

[OccamsRazor]

50 minutes ago, Zzeke said:

Is Flyers jersey #29 available?

 

Not sure I heard Todd Fedoruk was coming out of retirement and sign for next year and he wants his old number...

Edited November 20, 2020 by OccamsRazor

[CoachX]

19 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yeah how is that working for JVR?

 

I patiently wait for your rebuttal...

There is a long list of high caliber players who were rumored to be lazy. Among these: Ovechkin, Byfuglien, Getzlaf, Doughty and Kessel. All are SC winners

 

who knows about Laine,  but as I said, his body of work while being lazy would be among the best on the flyers during the same time period

 

JvR? A lazy BUM! HOPELESS

 

thats a scientific fact

Edited November 20, 2020 by CoachX

[CoachX]

13 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Not sure I heard Todd Fedoruk was coming out of retirement and sign for next year and he wants his old number...

Isnt he a scout for the Flyers?

[Podein25]

Just now, CoachX said:

Isnt he a scout for the Flyers?

 

Serious?

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, CoachX said:

who knows about Laine

 

It's all you had to say.

 

And I'm leaning to a further downward spiral of which he stats have been heading...if you noticed.

 

Ghost was a 65 point defenseman years ago just like Laine was a 40 goal scorer years ago.

 

Pass.

[Zzeke]

8 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

8 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

[Lazy can be fixed]

 

Yeah how is that working for JVR?

 

I patiently wait for your rebuttal...

 

Not lazy. JVR just does not have the physical tools anymore. He does not have the skating required. Also, his reactions to loose pucks is not good. He lacks the reaction-time and quickness required to pursue. He gets beat to puck scrambles deep in the offensive zone because of his lack of quickness. This is the primary reason he was scratched in multiple playoff games.

- At 6-3, 217, age 31, his body has slowed down. His NHL career of 11 years and 802 games has caught up with him.
- We wish him well. With Fletcher's need to open up space in the 23-man roster for young players Patrick, Lindblom, and Frost, JVR must be moved as one of several changes IMO.
- The challenge for Fletcher is how? JVR's contract has 3 more seasons at a 7M Cap Hit. And, teams have the video of his play.

 

Perhaps the only way is in a package trade where team X, that has big Cap Space, strongly wants something of value from Fletcher, and Fletcher requires them to take JVR as part of the package in order to complete the deal. (CX, somehow require Winnipeg to take JVR, for Flyers Cap Relief, as part of your deal for Laine? Especially if a 1st Rounder is included in the overall package?)

 

As this team gets younger with some of the excellent prospects coming, over the next few seasons JVR, Voracek, and Giroux will be phased out.