Flyers 2020-21 season

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

At the time it was a two player draft with him and Hircshier, then a drop off to the next group. 

 

I won't sit here and tell you i saw Petterson take off the way he did like we had joked about but i did like Heiskanen a lot, reminded me a little of Kimmo except better size...like a Kimmo Vatanen combo to be honest, and he has turned into a nice pick.

 

Defensemen are always more valuable in my eyes.

 

A lot of it has to do when i played NHL on the PS3 or 4 i was always a right hand. defensemen. A i love me a wrist shot in a minute.

 

But i played a 200 foot game....He would have slotted right nice beside Myers. Oh well...you win some you lose some.

 

Who knows what happens at this coming draft.

 

I can see a lot of movement....not so much the Flyers but quit a few teams more salary around and players and picks.

[CoachX]

3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

But if i could (just for example) get a Nick Ehlers and a pick for a Patrick, JVR and Ghost package i pull the trigger so quick your head would spin....

You posted it before I could respond. I totally agree

 

If the Jets would take all 3, for either Ehlers or Laine I'd  be ecstatic

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I want no part of Patrick Laine. Maurice and Vigneault coach similar styles. There's no way his lackadaisical attention to defense will cut it with Vigneault. The cost will be astronomical. No thanks.

 

Honestly, I'll be content if they work more young players into the lineup and into full time roles. I'm looking specifically at Frost, Bunnaman and Friedman. As well, I want to see one of the high priced 30+ olds moved. I believe they'll keep Giroux because he's a good citizen. I think they'll send a message if they move Voracek and/or JVR. Depending on the return, it could make for interesting. For instance, there was talk of Virtanen on here. He's a high risk, but if he pans out, that could be a really high reward. There seems to be smoke with the Virtanen and showing up to training camp out of shape, but if this shocks him into changing his offseason habits, you could potentially get a 30 goal winger with some snarl. That also changes the balance on the team. The right side would end up providing a physical presence (if a deal for Virtanen is made, you're looking Konecny/Virtanen/NAK/UFA on there) the left side would provide finesse (Giroux/Lindblom/Farabee) and the center position has a very interesting balance of experience and upside (Couturier/Hayes/Frost). And if Patrick is healthy, which it seems he's there with regards to Fletcher's last comments, then you could really change the complexion of the fourth line. And don't forget Laughton isn't even on here.

 

Who would have thought.....I'm actually warming up to the idea of Virtanen to Philadelphia. 

[OccamsRazor]

7 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Who would have thought.....I'm actually warming up to the idea of Virtanen to Philadelphia. 

 

Is it possible and for what?

[OccamsRazor]

16 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

For instance, there was talk of Virtanen on here. He's a high risk, but if he pans out, that could be a really high reward. There seems to be smoke with the Virtanen and showing up to training camp out of shape, but if this shocks him into changing his offseason habits, you could potentially get a 30 goal winger with some snarl.

 

Flip Jake for him.

 

Then trade Ghost for Antti Raanta.

 

Backup goalie solved.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Flip Jake for him.

 

Then trade Ghost for Antti Raanta.

 

Backup goalie solved.

 

Both deals would require a 3rd party to be involved. 'Zona is in cost cutting mode and Vancouver is close to the cap and they need to re-arrange money to get players signed (something tells me though Markstrom is going to walk and they're going to elevate Demko).

[CoachX]

18 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Honestly, I'll be content if they work more young players into the lineup and into full time roles. I'm looking specifically at Frost, Bunnaman and Friedman. As well, I want to see one of the high priced 30+ olds moved

So move JVR or Voracek for something, then move Bunnaman, Frost and Friedman in? 

 

And this should be the answer to getting the team to the next level? Oh, and making a hypothetical move for a player who may, or may not, be a 30 goal scorer

 

Im not seeing this as a good plan 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

17 minutes ago, CoachX said:

So move JVR or Voracek for something, then move Bunnaman, Frost and Friedman in? 

 

And this should be the answer to getting the team to the next level? Oh, and making a hypothetical move for a player who may, or may not, be a 30 goal scorer

 

Im not seeing this as a good plan 

 

I guess we'll agree to disagree. Fact is, they're right up against the cap. They have players next year that need to be signed, namely Hart and Sanheim. The cap is going to be flat for three years. So, not only do they have that to worry about, but they've got to work young players into the lineup. So yeah, I'd hope that they move Voracek and JVR because that means there isn't $15 million tied up between two guys. On top of it, JVR is a lazy dog. The most useless waste of $7 million that Hextall ever spent. And honestly, where do you put JVR in the lineup when you've got Lindblom, Laughton and Farabee on the left side? You aren't bumping any of those three to play on the fourth line and you can't justify having a $7 million man on the 4th line either. Move him out and cut bait. See you Van Useless.

As for Voracek, there are 8.225 million reasons why you move him as well.

 

Fact is, they need to make room for the youth. Fact is, Bunnaman and Frost are playing in the center spots (Frost is 3, Bunnaman is 4). If JVR and Voracek are dealt, there's no real loss for the Flyers. Lindblom can easily replace JVRs production, We know Giroux can replace JVRs production. We know Konecny is ready to emerge and take on Voracek's production. If the Flyers make a deal for Virtanen, you're getting a guy who's going to be motivated and there's probably a 25 - 30 goal guy waiting right there. And you can't forget Patrick because something tells me they're probably going to play him on the wing going forward. I'll take that trade off it if means a better allocation of $15 million and yeah, I think as a club, the Flyers become younger, faster and that will make them better. Do they drop off from these deals? Maybe, but I'll take one step back if it means five steps forward. 

 

This is a club that has NEVER done a proper rebuild. Ever. I said they overachieved last season and it was painfully obvious to just watch how out of their league they were in the playoffs. Montreal couldn't score and the Islanders skated all around them. The Flyers simply can't continue this path of "well, we're going to retool and remain competitive" garbage that they've been selling people. If you're going to go young, then you have to be prepared to take some lumps. I'll take the trade off of working two young 21 - 22 year old players into the lineup at the expense of two over priced 30+ year old guys....every time.

 

 

[Howie58]

Greetings:

 

Here is an interesting take on concussions and related medical conditions from a guy who's lived them up close and personal--Keith Primeau.  What he says about Nolan Patrick is worth a read:

 

https://www.crossingbroad.com/2020/10/keith-primeau-says-nolan-patrick-should-consider-all-options-including-retirement.html

 

I am not wishing for this outcome but it speaks to Patrick's medical history and the possibility that it is 2+2 =4.  It may be tough for a young person to realize that leading a normal life may mean more than earning six- and seven-figure salaries. 

 

Best,

Howie

 

 

 

[mojo1917]

@Howie58

 

Thanks for the link there.

 

Couple of things stood from that post.

First, Primeau says he doesn't know the details of Patrick's situation.  Second, Patrick will have the migranes regardless of his profession. So why not make the big bank whilst the opportunity to do so is plausible? 

I know Prims is speaking from a place of personal experience,  kindness and concern but he doesn't know Patty's situation.  

Do we really know Patrick's issues were concussions or the migraines?

Crosby was thought to have had severe concussions but some of his problems stemmed ( see what I did there) from neck problems.

You and I know as much as Primeau  does.

Until I hear from Fletcher, Patrick or Nolan's doctor all of this is speculation,  our conversation included.

 

 

 

[Howie58]

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Until I hear from Fletcher, Patrick or Nolan's doctor all of this is speculation,  our conversation included.

Dear Mojo:

That's a good point. We will see what happens in coming months.  That said, I hope we don't have Forsberg Redux with intermittent play.  I don't get good vibes from this young man's injury history. 

[flyercanuck]

On 10/1/2020 at 1:12 PM, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I still hate the Patrick pick more and more. I really wish they drafted Cody Glass. 

 

We all "wish" they would have drafted Glass...or Pettersson...or Makar...or Heiskanen...now. But at the time of the draft this board was pretty much unanimous being happy with whoever the Devils didn't taken between Hischier and Patrick. I think there was ONE person who wanted Heiskanen (intheslot?) from all the discussions we had on it. At least that's how I remember it.

 

 I wanted Glass when I thought we were picking further down the draft. Not at 2nd overall. Not at the time of the draft. I like Sanheim but I wish we'd have picked Pasternak in 2014. Wasn't even on my radar at 14.

Edited October 3, 2020 by flyercanuck

[mojo1917]

@BobbyClarkeFan16

In your rebuild map you didn't even really mention the college guys. 

Talent- wise I think Tanner Laczynski, is a guy who could play 4C this year. 

I also think Wade Allison could push for a bottom 6 role too. 

I guess the question is would  Comcast corporation be willing to start the year with a roster of 6 questions?

I think moving Voracek for cap relief is unwise but if a good player (AV player) comes back in addition to losing the 8.2  aav and the savings are 2 to 3 aav less that could be nice. 

I think Voracek will be harder to replace than most here.  He brings more good to the rink than bad and the margin is wide. 

Totally agree with dumping JvR...I keep hoping an advanced metrics guy some where thinks he can help their team. 

Edited October 3, 2020 by mojo1917

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

Talent- wise I think Tanner Laczynski, is a guy who could play 4C this year. 

I also think Wade Allison could push for a bottom 6 role too. 

 

Exactly they are almost two years older than Frost. And have been playing against older kids not 16 and 17 year olds not to take anything away from Frost.

 

These guys are 23 going to 24 soon. 

 

Matt Read was 25 when he put up 24 goals for 47 points his first year with the Flyers.

 

I expect these guys to come hard next camp trying to steal a spot.

 

Allison is that John LeClair sniper they so badly need.

 

Will they?

 

Hard to say now but those two are just more mature from a filling out growth stand point.

 

We'll see.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

We all "wish" they would have drafted Glass...or Pettersson...or Makar...or Heiskanen...now. But at the time of the draft this board was pretty much unanimous being happy with whoever the Devils didn't taken between Hischier and Patrick. I think there was ONE person who wanted Heiskanen (intheslot?) from all the discussions we had on it. At least that's how I remember it.

 

 I wanted Glass when I thought we were picking further down the draft. Not at 2nd overall. Not at the time of the draft. I like Sanheim but I wish we'd have picked Pasternak in 2014. Wasn't even on my radar at 14.

 

If you look back on my take of the draft, I never wanted Patrick. Not once. I wanted Glass from the get go. Not only was he nearly a year younger than Patrick, he did everything Patrick could do. I'm not sure if anyone else is aware of this, but Glass is also the same size, so size couldn't even be factored in. Truthfully, I thought Patrick was overrated. 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

13 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Exactly they are almost two years older than Frost. And have been playing against older kids not 16 and 17 year olds not to take anything away from Frost.

 

These guys are 23 going to 24 soon. 

 

Matt Read was 25 when he put up 24 goals for 47 points his first year with the Flyers.

 

I expect these guys to come hard next camp trying to steal a spot.

 

Allison is that John LeClair sniper they so badly need.

 

Will they?

 

Hard to say now but those two are just more mature from a filling out growth stand point.

 

We'll see.

I don't think we'll see Alison this year. He was finally getting back on track after his knee injury and I think they'll take it easy with him. Laczynski though I could see making the club and a 4th line of Raffl/Bunnaman/Laczynski could work. This club has the potential to be really young and I agree that ownership would have to be comfortable with going that young because let's be honest, there will be a bit of a step back to get the younger players acclimated, but the pay off could be huge. 

[intheslot]

https://www.nhl.com/flyers/news/flyers-re-sign-brian-elliott-to-one-year-contract-extension--philadelphia-flyers/c-319285864

 

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I don't think we'll see Alison this year. He was finally getting back on track after his knee injury and I think they'll take it easy with him. Laczynski though I could see making the club and a 4th line of Raffl/Bunnaman/Laczynski could work. This club has the potential to be really young and I agree that ownership would have to be comfortable with going that young because let's be honest, there will be a bit of a step back to get the younger players acclimated, but the pay off could be huge. 

 

I'm good if Allison is down in the AHL.

 

But I also would be shocked if he is kept for his size and his ability to score goals.

 

We know this club needs goals bad so if he comes out on fire in camp and preseason I can see AV keeping him.

 

Also think they need to at least move one big contract between Jake or JVR even if it means picking up some salary for the future to resign guys.

[OccamsRazor]

Well that is Elliott back in the fold.

 

I'm good with that for 1.5 mill.

 

So next up Myers and Patrick....

[OccamsRazor]

Seen a rumor floated last night Gaudreau for JVR, Ghost and a pick.

 

I meant to post it but I was getting in the car on the way home from work.

 

I would love this deal.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

15 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

@Howie58

 

Thanks for the link there.

 

Couple of things stood from that post.

First, Primeau says he doesn't know the details of Patrick's situation.  Second, Patrick will have the migranes regardless of his profession. So why not make the big bank whilst the opportunity to do so is plausible? 

I know Prims is speaking from a place of personal experience,  kindness and concern but he doesn't know Patty's situation.  

Do we really know Patrick's issues were concussions or the migraines?

Crosby was thought to have had severe concussions but some of his problems stemmed ( see what I did there) from neck problems.

You and I know as much as Primeau  does.

Until I hear from Fletcher, Patrick or Nolan's doctor all of this is speculation,  our conversation included.

 

 

 

 

Pretty certain that Patrick's physician and the team's doctor have already said the migraines are a preexisting and genetic condition, not a result of concussions. 

[OccamsRazor]

Arizona is buying out Michael Grabner, now he is a vet if there is any money left over i would like for the bottom 6.

 

He had some good years under AV in New York...certainly like that better than Thompson or Grant because he may be 32 but he still brings some much needed speed and a guy who can help out on the PK....he had 6 shorties the year before.

 

He and Raffl are from the same city in Austria, Villach...

[OccamsRazor]

For the right price.....make me an offer...where there is smoke there's fire...but not for Sanheim or Myers...

 

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by OccamsRazor

[OccamsRazor]

So Eklund says Flyers are interested in Kevin Shattenkirk.

 

Hhhhmmm first I have heard that news.

 

They have 4.7 mill in cap space left to get Myers and Patrick under contract.

 

So unless they have something else in the works I can't see this going down.

 

But it's Eklund anyways...

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

10 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

So Eklund says Flyers are interested in Kevin Shattenkirk.

 

Hhhhmmm first I have heard that news.

 

They have 4.7 mill in cap space left to get Myers and Patrick under contract.

 

So unless they have something else in the works I can't see this going down.

 

But it's Eklund anyways...

 

I've always liked Shattenkirk. He was wasted in New York as he was expected to be a legitimate number 1 when he isn't. He's a solid mid pairing guy, so maybe the time is now to bump Myers up with Provorov, have Sanheim play along side Niskanen and then have Hoggwart and Friedman as a pair.