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After watching this team in the playoffs, not only do I believe that JVR, Braun, Gostisbehere, Thompson and Grant are gone, but I think you can add Voracek and possibly Laughton to the list. I was hesitant on Fletcher doing a full house cleaning, but I think this core has shown they can't get the job done when it matters most. Too many mistakes and there's no sense of urgency from this group until it's too late. There's a sense of complacency in the room in that some guys have long term deals, so they won't get moved. That's going to go right out the window. And don't think Vigneault isn't keeping a list of guys that need to go. You know he's wanting some players out of there. 

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Briefly coming out of retirement because I can't contain myself.    Sam Morin at left wing--especially given our already crowded left side and more coming--is one of the dumbest things I've read in a long time, and I have a Twitter account!    Not directed at anyone here. 

What's considered blowing up though? IF we're talking about moving Voracek and van Riemsdyk, there are numerous players who can fill their roles. For instance, if JVR is moved, there's still Giroux on the top left side, Lindblom can move along side Hayes and then Farabee fits in on the third line. That leaves the fourth line open, where Raffl remains. As for the right side, if Voracek is moved, Konecny slides into the top role, NAK moves into the 2nd line spot with Hayes, and then third line, yo

Flyers should have signed him when he went off to Dallas.   It was more money than they were prepared to pay obviously, but when you have a bunch of kids in the room, you want an old guy who, on his first day with his new club, says: "I want my own key to the gym."   I'm sorry, but you sign that guy.

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I think if you do you are going to see a big step back before you see any step forward (similar to trading Carter and Richards).

 

 

I really don't think "blowing it up" is necessary.

I think more good players are necessary.

There are more good players on the way/ in the system. And some of those good players & prospects could be moved for known quantities. I still think Nolan Patrick could be a very good player for the Flyers, I think Morgan Frost and Issac Radcliffe are intriguing prospects. There's a bunch of fast college guys that could fill in the bottom six- that kid from Ohio State is a "born Flyer" Laczynski, Wade Allison might be something if his knees are good...  Blowing it up seems stupid. I think a scalpel is needed not a hammer. 

 

Tampa Bay has been under performing for years, same with the Capitals, Those teams didn't jettison their top guys, they continued to build around them. I think this is what the Flyers need.

In another thread the right type of leadership was mentioned, I can see some guys being moved for perhaps less talented but more vocal middle 6 six guys.  Giroux is not a task master, he's a "how can I help & are you okay?" type. I do think a guy with more edge to him would be beneficial. I don't know who that guy is...so I don't have a list of trades ready to go.

 

I'm not happy with JvR's 2nd run as a Flyer, he's played well for about 2 months. He was hurt to start then struggled then played okay, this year he found his game and broke his hand. He's a roll out of bed 25 goal scorer in the right situation he's valuable, he needs to be more than he's capable of for the Flyers. 

 

I also think this group learned from this playoff run. There's some young guys playing big minutes that now know what's necessary. For me even if they lose this series, I think the season has been a success. 

Edited by mojo1917
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1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

Tampa Bay has been under performing for years, same with the Capitals, Those teams didn't jettison their top guys, they continued to build around them. I think this is what the Flyers need.

 

It's not the same thing bro. Those teams have guys on them who are counted on to perform come playoff time and they did.

 

That is why we are discussing this because the Flyer's players aren't performing.

 

So for me it is about scoring and keeping the puck out your own net. Those teams have guys on them who score. Sure the Bolts got upset last year by the Jackets...that was more a fluke than anything.

 

There has to be a point where you have to move on from guys who are not performing up to standards. It's hard for fans to do this but at the end of the day it's just like moving on from Summer I hated it but as we have seen it was for the best.

 

The time has come for the Flyers to do it again.

 

And yes you don't have to blow it up but there needs to be a retooling.

 

Sorry I know it hurts but it must be done something has to change i do not want to run it back another year with just fragile group. Identify the pieces you need to keep and move the ones you can for value back.

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@OccamsRazor

 

I won't trust your process.

Also, selling "low" on the under performing players won't net what is going out the door. Even in a deep draft, that's wishful thinking.

This team has so many good young pieces, I'm not ready to trade Koneckny because he hasn't scored this year, are you? Do you think Couturier is out the door?

Identifying what the core is at this point is important.

I think there are guys that can go that won't be missed, I think JvR is one, I think Voracek is another. Moving those two pieces isn't blowing anything up. 

For me the core forward group  is Hayes, Couturier, Koneckny, Patrick, Frost Lindblom Giroux, Pitlick, Aube-Kubel.

Sanhiem, Myers, Provorov, Friedman, Zamula and I don't know maybe Niskanen ?

 

I think this should be the core- I don't see where blowing it up makes the team better in any fashion.

 

 

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38 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

 

I won't trust your process.

 

Find and you don't have too. Feel free to keep spinning your wheels.

 

38 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Also, selling "low" on the under performing players won't net what is going out the door.

 

I'm afraid their stock is only going to continue to slide south and sure hold the stock till you lose value further if you want.

 

And you can exactly say what value will be coming back for sure is better or worse right now. And like the Schenn the return may take a year or two to pay dividends.

 

But sell while you can so you're not left holding your duck.

 

38 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I'm not ready to trade Koneckny because he hasn't scored this year, are you?

 

Bro no one around here yet that I have seen has said anything about Konecny. Or even Coots.

 

And you know exactly the guys we are talking about moving. But I will lay it out if it makes you feel better:

 

Coots, TK, Lindblom, Patrick (if he plays again) Farabee, NAK, Frost i would like to hold Laughton another year unless someone wanted included in a trade with another component then I would have to listen.

 

 

Provorov, Myers, Sanheim and Zamula are part of the defense I'd keep. And of course Hart.

Everyone else make me an offer...

 

Edited by OccamsRazor
forgot a forward oops
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21 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Find and you don't have too. Feel free to keep spinning your wheels.

We don't see eye to eye on much.

I'm not spinning my wheels.

I don't have anything to do with this team other than watching and cheering. 

I don't do fantasy hockey, I don't do play station, I watch, and for the most part enjoy the team.

The team doesn't need a rebuild. The team needs to continue to be built. Players will not be signed new players will take their place. 

 

 

Cratering the team because they've improved, but haven't gone from missing the playoffs to winning the championship in one year, is unwise. That's as kind as I can say it. 

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

We don't see eye to eye on much.

I'm not spinning my wheels.

I don't have anything to do with this team other than watching and cheering. 

I don't do fantasy hockey, I don't do play station, I watch, and for the most part enjoy the team.

The team doesn't need a rebuild. The team needs to continue to be built. Players will not be signed new players will take their place. 

 

 

Cratering the team because they've improved, but haven't gone from missing the playoffs to winning the championship in one year, is unwise. That's as kind as I can say it. 

 

 

 

 

Ok.

 

Nothing more to say sounds like you have it all figured out.

 

Good luck with that. 8 more years to burn.

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Laine is supposedly on the trade block.  I have reservations, but would anyone trade Sanheim for Laine?  It would take something like that to get it done.  If you move, JVR, you could then do:

 

Laine/Coots/Voracek

Lindblom/Hayes/Konecny

Giroux/Patrick/Farabee

???/Laughton/NAK

 

Provorov/Niskanen

Ghost/Myers

Hagg/Friedman

 

I would prefer to move Ghost, but you could also flop Niskanen and Myers.

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15 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

What's considered blowing up though? IF we're talking about moving Voracek and van Riemsdyk, there are numerous players who can fill their roles. For instance, if JVR is moved, there's still Giroux on the top left side, Lindblom can move along side Hayes and then Farabee fits in on the third line. That leaves the fourth line open, where Raffl remains. As for the right side, if Voracek is moved, Konecny slides into the top role, NAK moves into the 2nd line spot with Hayes, and then third line, you can use either Patrick there when he's healthy (more on that) or you can use a Laczynski or Allison there. Fourth line remains in tact with Pitlick skating there. As for Braun, his minutes are easily replaced by a more mobile and better puck handling defenseman in Friedman (who everyone in the organization says is ready for a bigger role). Grant and Thompson are no big losses either. So, in the grand scheme of things, are the Flyers really blowing things up or are they moving expensive spare parts to make way for younger, cheaper players that are ready to step up? The way I look at it, that's how you move forward. The Flyers are still loaded with depth and letting some of the guys walk or moving them means you can continually replenish the system. We're in a cap world and a flat cap world for the next three years. It's going to be critical to continually have pieces in place in the pipeline to ensure continuity. Being stuck with bloated contracts for underperforming players is going to be the death knell for plenty of organizations out there. Just watch what will happen to the Pittsburghs and the Tampa Bays of the world when everything comes crashing down cap wise. They're going to be dead in the water. Same with Boston. We're seeing it in San Jose right now and Los Angeles is mired in a deep rut. Now is exactly the time to start carving away the broken pieces that don't fit the system. It's not as if the Flyers are sending Giroux, Couturier, Hayes, Provorov, Sanheim, Meyers, etc....packing. So yeah, I say when the season is over, start making the roster changes necessary to compete, get younger and cheaper.

I believe this post to be  similar to my thinking, I don't see this as a blow it up scenario. 

 

I'm not high either, sadly.

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17 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Ok.

 

Nothing more to say sounds like you have it all figured out.

 

Good luck with that. 8 more years to burn.

Have you read anything I've typed?

To clarify there are some guys that can be moved with 0 NMCs that can create nice cap space to sign younger guys or bring back a different middle six player. 

Trading G & V is not doable Trading V might be . Trading JvR will be harder but again retain some salary and still clear 5m aav.

This isn't blowing a team up its continuing to build it.

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I'm in the same boat as @mojo1917 and @BobbyClarkeFan16.   I don't think there needs to be a major overhaul.

  • Moving JVR is a must in my mind.   Regardless of the return.  It was a stupid move from the 2nd beginning.
  • Moving Voracek for the right deal would be good also.
  • Thompson & Grant need to go also obviously.

Remember that having Patrick (who I believe will be back and is a top 6 player) and Lindblom back drastically changes this lineup without losing anybody.    Plugging these two in pushes Farabee back to 3rd line where he belongs right now, Laughton to wing and brings in Frost who is ready and should be in the lineup next year.

  1. Giroux - Couturier - Patrick.  There was a suggestion about trying Patrick at wing which I think might be a good one. 
  2. Lindblom - Hayes - Konecny.   Remember this line crushed it for a time before Lindblom went out
  3. Farabee - Frost - NAK.   It's a young line but if they click they could really be fast and effective.
  4. Laughton - Pitlick - Raffl.   Laughton has proven better on the wing, Pitlick/Raffl are players you need on your cup winning team. 

 

Waiting in the wings:  Allison, Laczynski, Ratcliffe, Brink, Rubtsov, O'Brien

  1. Provorov - Niskanen
  2. Sanheim - Myers.   This is your 2nd pair for a decade
  3. Ghost - Friedman.  Swap any of these with those below as needed.
  4. Hagg

Waiting in the wings:  York, Zamula, Morin

 

That to me is a team that can compete for the cup for several years.  Often times I think people forget the Flyers have one of the highest ranked (8 of 31 according to THN) prospect pool, still.....  (Thanks Hexy)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Digityman
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25 minutes ago, Digityman said:
  1. Laughton - Pitlick - Raffl.   Laughton has proven better on the wing, Pitlick/Raffl are players you need on your cup winning team. 

 

 

 

I like your lines your lines except Pitlick at center which he isn't very good at.

 

So I have to put Laughton back on the wing.

 

Raffl - Laughton - Pitlick

 

I like giving Ghost and Friedman a chance too.

 

And I'm afraid if Ghost doesn't lock down a spot he could be a dead trade to a team trying to get right for the expansion draft.

 

And if the Isles don't resign Grissom I wouldn't mind replacing Elliott with him on the cheap.

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9 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

I like your lines your lines except Pitlick at center which he isn't very good at.

 

So I have to put Laughton back on the wing.

 

Raffl - Laughton - Pitlick

 

I like giving Ghost and Friedman a chance too.

 

And I'm afraid if Ghost doesn't lock down a spot he could be a dead trade to a team trying to get right for the expansion draft.

 

And if the Isles don't resign Grissom I wouldn't mind replacing Elliott with him on the cheap.

would you be interested in barkov or Huberdeau if they are on the block?

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27 minutes ago, tucson83 said:

would you be interested in barkov or Huberdeau if they are on the block?

 

Yes. But i can't see them trading those two. Both 30 goal scorers.

 

It would require Sanheim or Myers and i am not wanting to do that.

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48 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yes. But i can't see them trading those two. Both 30 goal scorers.

 

It would require Sanheim or Myers and i am not wanting to do that.

Barkov for Sanheim?

Man I'd think about that really hard. 

I'm a huge tall Travis fan, but Barkov is a player I've coveted for awhile,  skates, shoots playmaker...he's one of a couple of guys id think about trading a stud for.

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4 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Barkov for Sanheim?

Man I'd think about that really hard. 

 

Oh i know but it would just start there i'm afraid.

 

I mean he is there top line center who is 25 and under contract for two year at 5.9 mill per.

 

Now i would certainly pick up the phone and listen, too bad Patrick isn't healthy i would offer him too.

 

However i can't see Bill Zito starting off his new GM job by moving his top center....he won't be employed long.

 

It would have to be a King's ransom type deal.

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11 hours ago, Digityman said:

Moving JVR is a must in my mind. 

 

My wake up you're dreaming scenario would be after Arizona loses Hall to the Flames the Flyers swoop in and trade them JVR to replace him. Maybe just for Grabner in return and a pick he is only under contract for 20-21 at 3.35 mill.

 

Then trade Canucks Voracek since i don't think they will have the money to sign Toffoli since rumor has it he wants 10 mill per.

 

And then go sign Mike Hoffman.

 

Giroux - Coots - TK

Hoffman - Hayes - Farabee

Lindblom - Frost - NAK

Grabner - Laughton - Raffl 

 

Ok someone slap me i'm done dreaming...

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12 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Oh i know but it would just start there i'm afraid.

 

I mean he is there top line center who is 25 and under contract for two year at 5.9 mill per.

 

Now i would certainly pick up the phone and listen, too bad Patrick isn't healthy i would offer him too.

 

However i can't see Bill Zito starting off his new GM job by moving his top center....he won't be employed long.

 

It would have to be a King's ransom type deal.

Just want to say defenseman like 6 don't grow on trees either,  so I don't know if I would offer much more than a pick, plus Travis' contract is good for now

 

You're probably right it would have to be a blockbuster with multiple other high end guys. 

 One for one + prospect/pick is more intriguing 

 

@OccamsRazor

When I was thinking about this I was thinking about the Adam Larsson for Taylor Hall trade.

potential #1 d man for cornerstone forward. I realize the "brains" behind that deal are out of the league. But that was where I came up with the one for one.

Edited by mojo1917
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18 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

My wake up you're dreaming scenario would be after Arizona loses Hall to the Flames the Flyers swoop in and trade them JVR to replace him. Maybe just for Grabner in return and a pick he is only under contract for 20-21 at 3.35 mill.

 

Then trade Canucks Voracek since i don't think they will have the money to sign Toffoli since rumor has it he wants 10 mill per.

 

And then go sign Mike Hoffman.

 

Giroux - Coots - TK

Hoffman - Hayes - Farabee

Lindblom - Frost - NAK

Grabner - Laughton - Raffl 

 

Ok someone slap me i'm done dreaming...

 

If we could move JVR and get someone like Victor Soderstrom instead, I'd be over the moon.

 

As for Voracek, I'd be interested in a package around Olli Juolevi or Kole Lind. I'm a huge Olli fan from his days with London and I think he's just a guy that needs a change of scenery.

 

As for Mike Hoffman, I'm not even sure there's a spot for him in Philadelphia. The left side is already set with Giroux - Lindblom - Farabee - Raffl - Laughton. There's literally no room for Hoffman. 

 

Now, Dadonov on the other hand, he'd be a great fit on the right side if the Flyers move Voracek. You could bump Konecny to the top line, Dadonov would be your second, NAK your third and Pitlick the 4th. As you can tell, I'm all for blowing **** up...lol

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I posted another thread last night that addresses this one. I think they're a lot of parallels between this season and 2008.  Yes, we improved enormously over the 2006-07 disaster but the '08 squad wasn't a foundation either, and I take out the 2010 fluke because that was blown up almost immediately.  I applaud AV and Fletch for what they've done but as you folks are noting here, this squad has lots of holes and aging players with a bleep load of salary cap at a time that is unlikely to increase. Our farm hands may be called upon to seize the reins out of fiscal necessity.  Dumping some of our high-priced players won't be easy.  

 

Thankfully, goal is settled and we have a core of D that can be built on.  Our forwards--that is a scary bunch.  As I've said before, I really don't think we have a competitive first line.  As for the bottom six, that could be a strange mix of untried and overpaid if we aren't careful.  

 

 

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On 9/3/2020 at 4:36 PM, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Now, Dadonov on the other hand, he'd be a great fit on the right side if the Flyers move Voracek.

 

I like Dadonov for the right price...but honestly he is more like Jake when it comes to being to soft come playoff time i think.

 

So i don't know if JVR would get you Soderstrom but maybe Jake could so i would do that and just move JVR for whatever.

 

28 Claude Giroux- 14 Sean Couturier - 11 Travis Konecny
68 Mike Hoffman - 13 Kevin Hayes- 49 Joel Farabee
23 Oskar Lindblom - 48 Morgan Frost - 18 Tyler Pitlick
12 Michael Raffl - 82 Connor Bunnaman - 62 Nicolas Aube-Kubel

9 Ivan Provorov - 15 Matt Niskanen
6 Travis Sanheim - 5 Phil Myers
53 Shayne Gostisbehere  - 59 Mark Friedman

8 Robert Hagg

79 Carter Hart
??????????

 

Mike Hoffman gives them the goal scorer they need as well a guy who can help out on the power play.

 

Over the last two years the Flyers have scored 87 power plays total. Hoffman alone over the last two years has 28. 

 

So i would give a decent look for the right price.

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