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If they're not happy with BCF16 offer.....go screw yourself. Laine doesn't have any Playoff gumption with what we are headed for and need. We need Playoff performers now. We have to see what we have in the Playoffs this year and go from there. What good does it do to score 132 goals in the regular season and only score 1 goal in 3 series. We are past the rebuild stage and now need to hone our Playoff talent. We're still developing that part of it now. AV so much has said as well.

Our focus now is improving our Playoff performance. This past playoffs is an asterisks for the history books. So much going on in and out of the league to say all playing fields were even. It was what it was.

 

We need to focus on our depth, we seem to be a team that is trending with allot of depth.

Laine doesn't win us a Cup. It improves our stats. We don't know his locker room acumen.

I got no problem with the kid. When you turn off the tube the problems don't just get cut-off then. They're still there whether you are aware or not.

This isn't a sitcom.

We also have pricier fish to pay in the coming years. Goalies, forwards, D and role players.

Maybe next year we can do another Haysee type deal, pick him up then.

How's Duchene doing vs Hayes? We won that acquisition.

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I don't see Fletcher going for Laine unless there is some kind of salary dump.  At this stage, the only thing that comes to mind is the need to establish lines and D-pairings quickly.  There isn't much time for experimentation.  I also wonder if the trade deadline will mean that much--not a lot of time to integrate a newcomer.  

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8 hours ago, Howie58 said:

I don't see Fletcher going for Laine unless there is some kind of salary dump.  At this stage, the only thing that comes to mind is the need to establish lines and D-pairings quickly.  There isn't much time for experimentation.  I also wonder if the trade deadline will mean that much--not a lot of time to integrate a newcomer.  

 

@Howie58

 

Good stuff. Agree with you on the salary cap issue. As a pending RFA, Laine's agent will be looking at his 22 YO client to go from his current 6.75 M to 8+ M Cap Hit, and Laine has arbitration rights.

 

Ideally, 31 YO Voracek, with 4 more years @ 8.25 M, would be included in a package. But, no chance IMO. Winnipeg reportedly is moving Laine for Cap reasons and for reasons of Laine wants out. Reports:

 

[At the beginning of the off-season]
Winnipeg has a total of 10 players on their NHL roster that are pending unrestricted free agents and four restricted free agents, with only $14-million in cap space — GM Kevin Cheveldayoff might have his busiest offseason yet.

 

This level of flexibility and uncertainty leaves the Jets in a tight spot with Laine. He is going to get a substantial bump in pay and will only leave his current team wanting more cap space to fill out the roster. With this in mind, it makes sense to take some calls on the player and the Flyers appear to be the frontrunners in terms of such calls.

 

Trading Laine and eliminating that potential enormous contract would allow the Jets to fill in those roster holes. According to TSN’s Darren Dreger, Winnipeg is looking for at least a second-line center and a second-pairing defenseman.

 

All Patrik Laine wants to do is play with his team's best players, and he's never had the chance in Winnipeg. Head coach, Paul Maurice loves to balance out his top-2 lines, and Laine is always stuck with whatever's left after Mark Scheifele and Blake Wheeler. Turns out, Laine has had enough of riding in the coat-tails and according to a Jets source, he's informed Jets management his preference is to be traded! It's hard to reach your potential when you feel you're constantly being held back by your coach. That soon will change for Patrik Laine and he'll be happy to hear the trade news. 

 

Sometimes you have to give to get and the Winnipeg Jets appear to be balancing that fact this off-season. Specifically, the team is weighing whether trading Patrik Laine will help the club fill other voids it has at centre and on defence. It’s no secret that they need to upgrade a defense corps that lost Jacob Trouba, Dustin Byfuglien and Tyler Myers all in one offseason, but how exactly will they address that underperforming offense? 

 

Analyzing what Laine brings to the Flyers is already a foregone conclusion. A pure sniper would do wonders for a power play that came up lame when they needed it most during the postseason while taking some of the offensive pressure off the aging likes of Claude Giroux, Sean Couturier, and Jakub Voracek. Laine would help lead the charge of Philadelphia’s next generation, which already has a big piece in 23-year-old Travis Konecny.

 

In your point about is there enough time to integrate a newcomer - - we are looking at a newcomer at 3RW before a potential Laine deal:

 

Perhaps:

 

Lindblom-Couturier-Voracek
Farabee-Hayes-Konecny
Giroux-Patrick-Sandin (G will settle P and S)
Laughton-Bunnaman-Aube Kubel (ideal AV 4th line)

#13-Raffl

JVR out

If Patrick not healthy, then Frost at 3C.

 

Provorov - Gustafsson
Sanheim - Myers (RH) (don't break them up)
Hagg - Braun (RH)
#7 - Friedman (RH)
Ghost - traded

 

Hart
Elliott


With adding Laine, that squeezes out Sandin at RW, unless miraculously Winnipeg would take Voracek (no way). So, one newcomer either way - - Sandin or Laine.

 

MORE Patrik Laine TRADE Destinations: LA Kings, Philadelphia Flyers, New  York Islanders? NHL Rumours - YouTube

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Zzeke said:

All Patrik Laine wants to do is play with his team's best players, and he's never had the chance in Winnipeg. Head coach, Paul Maurice loves to balance out his top-2 lines, and Laine is always stuck with whatever's left after Mark Scheifele and Blake Wheeler. Turns out, Laine has had enough of riding in the coat-tails and according to a Jets source, he's informed Jets management his preference is to be traded! It's hard to reach your potential when you feel you're constantly being held back by your coach. That soon will change for Patrik Laine and he'll be happy to hear the trade news

 

Why would we want this player, based on these bolded sentences?

 

First off, it's rank entitlement. Second, it's simply not true that Laine hasn't played with the best players. For a long stretch they had him playing the point on the number one PP unit, along with Scheifele, Wheeler, Ehlers etc. At other times he was on the off wing. In short, their entire PP was organized around trying to get the puck to him!

 

I'm sorry, but the notion that Laine has been "held back" by his coach is fanciful and young Patrick knows this. The fact that he has spread this nonsense to reporters should make us run away from him. 

 

 

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There are probably few others on this board who would want Laine more than me, but I just don't see it happening. :fi:

 

First of all, the unmotivated, selfish, video-game-playing, "held back" by his coach player scored more goals than anyone on the Flyers last season.

 

Second, the Flyers' leading goal scorer in the playoffs last season was Scott Laughton. Tied for second was Michael Raffl (4 goals in 9 games).

 

This team, shall we say, could use some firepower even with Farabee and Frost and TK and the rest of the not-quite-proven-NHL-goal-scorer squad. To be very clear I do like all those players (and Konecny has scored 20+ reliably) and expect that they will pan out for the Flyers.

 

But unless they get rid of Voracek or JVR going the other way for salary purposes, it simply doesn't make sense from a cap perspective. Even as an RFA, I could certainly see Laine going the arbitration route and I don't think that sides well for the Flyers.

 

Something like Ghost and JVR/Voracek, maybe one of Raffl/Laughton, perhaps a B prospect and maybe a 2nd would be what I would be willing to give up. And, again, I'm probably amongst the more motivated to get that player. :5a6425fa25331_VikingSkoool:

 

I don't see the Jets looking to take on JVR or Voracek and I simply don't see them taking that sort of a package.

 

Under those circumstances, whether or not he would be "a fit" or "play hard" here simply doesn't matter. I do think that AV could make something out of this player. I would, of course, want to hear from AV about his perspective (and I'm pretty sure ol' Fletch has/would which could be why talks have cooled).

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36 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Why would we want this player [Laine], based on these bolded sentences?

 

First off, it's rank entitlement. Second, it's simply not true that Laine hasn't played with the best players. For a long stretch they had him playing the point on the number one PP unit, along with Scheifele, Wheeler, Ehlers etc. At other times he was on the off wing. In short, their entire PP was organized around trying to get the puck to him!

 

I'm sorry, but the notion that Laine has been "held back" by his coach is fanciful and young Patrick knows this. The fact that he has spread this nonsense to reporters should make us run away from him. 

 

 

 

@Podein25

 

I don't remember what article this paragraph came from. When I saved it, I should have copied the link.

 

You would know best P25, as you are there in Manitoba and see things first-hand. I respect your opinion.

 

However, I'm in the camp of:

 

Laine, in a prorated 82 game season, averaged 38 goals over his 4 NHL seasons including a 44 goal season (age 18-21).  Surprisingly, in 3 of his 4 seasons, he was a 'plus' player.

 

Put Laine with quality playmaking linemates like Courturier and Giroux, and he may be a 40+ goal scorer for many years. We think about how that translates to wins and a big plus toward being SC contenders.

 

Regarding his feeling of 'entitlement' and other immature issues, he is only age 22 and has not yet fully matured in committment, drive, and 'team'. And has not yet reached his playing peak!

 

We think about what he may be when he matures and develops a hard-work ethic with that awesome talent level. This guy is now a goal scoring machine - - and will grow into an awesome goal producer when he gets good linemates, good coaching, good team, and matures.

 

Just IMHO.

 

Image

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Zzeke said:

Surprisingly, in 3 of his 4 seasons, he was a 'plus' player.

 

Interesting, but explainable. He had Bryan Little as his center for much of that time. Bryan Little is a 200 foot player and a good  puck possession center. 

 

14 minutes ago, Zzeke said:

Put Laine with quality playmaking linemates like Courturier and Giroux, and he may be a 40+ goal scorer for many years.

 

Again, this assumed he was playing with scrubs in Winnipeg. Little is a quality player. He has played with guys like Ehlers on his wing and he has played with Wheeler and Scheifele (not just on the PP).

 

15 minutes ago, Zzeke said:

And has not yet reached his playing peak!

 

I disagree. I think he reached his peak as an 18 year old if by peak we mean his actual ceiling as a hockey player. He has scored almost all of his goals because of his shot. If he's given room to get his shot off, he will beat most goalies. But he is relatively easy to neutralize if teams play him appropriately. 

 

18 minutes ago, Zzeke said:

...when he matures and develops a hard-work ethic

 

Those three things (age, maturity, work ethic) are not mutually exclusive. Age does not equal maturity and neither mean he will develop a work ethic. For four years Laine has been around one of the best, most committed, most hard working players one can imagine: Blake Wheeler. So what makes you think being away from a guy like that will prompt a change? It defies logic. 

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30 minutes ago, radoran said:

First of all, the unmotivated, selfish, video-game-playing, "held back" by his coach player scored more goals than anyone on the Flyers last season.

Flyers didn't have any trouble scoring goals last season. (during the regular season).

The top guys did struggle in the tournament...I don't know how much stock does one put on those circumstances?  I don't foresee Koneckny taking a collar in the playoffs again, ever. I also think Couturier, and Giroux will be better. Lindblom may be able to play there's some goals. Also the two teams the Flyers played in that tournament have been match-up problems in the recent past. Does a perimeter player with a big shot help vs the Islanders? eh maybe? 

Laine's goals don't help what the problem with last year's team, playoff scoring.

So yay?

 

I don't know why the team would give up a lot of assets  for another team's problem... To fix a problem that isn't a problem that also doesn't fix last year's biggest problem ? That's some Peter Chiarelli thinking there.

 

Edited by mojo1917
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15 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Flyers didn't have any trouble scoring goals last season. (during the regular season).

The top guys did struggle in the tournament...I don't know how much stock does one put on those circumstances?  I don't foresee Koneckny taking a collar in the playoffs again, ever. I also think Couturier, and Giroux will be better. Lindblom may be able to play there's some goals. Also the two teams the Flyers played in that tournament have been match-up problems in the recent past. Does a perimeter player with a big shot help vs the Islanders? eh maybe? 

Laine's goals don't help what the problem with last year's team, playoff scoring.

So yay?

 

I don't know why the team would give up a lot of assets  for another team's problem... To fix a problem that isn't a problem that also doesn't fix last year's biggest problem ? That's some Peter Chiarelli thinking there.

 

 

Which is why I don't see Laine coming to the Flyers, which was my point.

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1 hour ago, AJgoal said:

 

Thanks for that, posting the main bullets:

  1. Laine’s goalscoring has dramatically fallen off in the past two seasons both in terms of total goals and finishing numbers.

  2. Unlike every other comparable young sniper of the cap era, Laine has a major negative impact on his team’s ability to generate quality scoring chances.

  3. Laine has been fortunate enough to play with some of the league’s top playmakers and finishers in his career, which has papered over those first two issues.

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3 hours ago, Podein25 said:

Again, this assumed he was playing with scrubs in Winnipeg. Little is a quality player. He has played with guys like Ehlers on his wing and he has played with Wheeler and Scheifele (not just on the PP).

3 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Flyers didn't have any trouble scoring goals last season. (during the regular season).

The top guys did struggle in the tournament...I don't know how much stock does one put on those circumstances?  

3 hours ago, AJgoal said:

https://jfresh.substack.com/p/whats-patrik-laine-worth

[Very interesting article. Thx]

2 hours ago, radoran said:

Which is why I don't see Laine coming to the Flyers, which was my point.

[Flyers didn't have any trouble scoring goals last season. (during the regular season). The top guys did struggle in the tournament...I don't know how much stock does one put on those circumstances?}

 

 

 

 

Guys, all good points, valid points. Good food for thought. Good stuff.

 

Consistent with what you are saying, I agree with GM Fletcher's statement:

"Don't draw conclusions from the small sample size of the 13 games of the Bubble Playoffs".

 

Again, this team will score goals. Our Flyers last season were 7th in the 31-team NHL in 'goals scored' (They played 1 and 2 games less than the two teams ahead of them, and could easily have been 5th in the League).

 

Other positives for optimism regarding goal scoring:

 

1) the addition of Lindblom and potentially Patrick

 

2) young rostered players have not yet peaked and will get better and better: Konecny, Farabee, Sanheim, Myers, Provorov

 

3) The probability of one of these young skill forwards making the team at the 3RW: Sandin, Allison, Laczynski - - most likely Sandin this season - - age 24, is a goal scorer with SHL pro experience.

 

Actually, thinking about the end of the 2019-20 regular season success to climb to the top and how well the team was in sync, and also knowing that finally one of the top-rated prospect pools is/will be ready to emerge, the future seems bright for our Flyers.

 

All that said, I can't help but drool over this forward lineup going forward for the next X years:

 

Lindblom-Couturier-Laine
Farabee-Hayes-Konecny
Giroux-Patrick/Frost-Sandin (G will settle P/F and S)
Laughton-Bunnaman-Aube Kubel (ideal AV 4th line)
#13-Raffl

Voracek out somehow

JVR out somehow

 

It seems like Winnipeg will deal Laine and fill their needs at 2C and 2nd pairing D plus. Will our Flyers compete with an offer(s)?

 

Yes, Cap Management issues and trade asset issues.

 

I may be the only one here that would make this offer - - 

I'll stick with - - 

If Fletcher can get Laine for any variation/pieces of this package (not all of this package), then do it:

- Patrick C or Frost C (Winnipeg's choice)

    (Wpg may go for the hometown Patrick with a 'games-played' proviso)
- Ghost D
- York D or Wylie D (Winnipeg's choice)
- JVR or Voracek (Winnipeg's choice) - required to be included for Flyers Cap Management
- 1st Rounder 2021 Draft
 

If it doesn't work, this is still a very good team and will score goals.

 

image.jpeg.f30a3aab0aca9777b7a09511f9591d31.jpeg

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AV Speaks - - (12/21/20)

 

Article this evening by Sam Carchidi at the Philadelphia Inquirer.

 

Excerpts:

 

>> Flyers coach Alain Vigneault said left winger Oskar Lindblom will be ready to play when the season starts Jan. 13, that center Nolan Patrick’s medical updates have been positive, and that depth will be greatly needed because of the NHL’s condensed, 56-game schedule. <<

 

>> Oskar Lindblom appears to be healthy and ready for the season, his coach said. 

 

As for Lindblom and Patrick, Vigneault was optimistic that they would contribute.

 

“Oskar is fine. He’s been skating and staying in Philly for quite some time, and he’s good to go,” Vigneault said. “As far as Nolan, all I hear are positive things.”

 

Vigneault said Patrick has been skating in the area and feeling well, and he was hopeful Patrick would be cleared to participate in training camp after undergoing a physical on Jan. 3.

 

If healthy, Patrick, 22, would be the third-line center and would give the Flyers’ lineup much more balance. “There’s a tremendous amount of potential there,” Vigneault said. “We’re keeping our fingers crossed.” <<

 

>> With no exhibition games scheduled, the Flyers will have camp scrimmages “almost on a daily basis. Guys need to get a game feel, and those game hands and those [game] legs, and I feel that is one of the best ways to do it,” Vigneault said.

 

Vigneault has had several Zoom meetings with his coaches in recent months to outline camp. He said the team will practice for about 45 minutes in each session and then do some scrimmaging. <<

 

>> Rosters will remain at 23 players for the pandemic-shortened season, but teams will carry a four-to-six-player taxi squad. Those extra players will be needed, Vigneault said, because of the condensed schedule.

 

“If ever we’re going to need depth at all positions, it’s going to be this year,” he said. “In my mind, because we’ll be playing four games in six nights and a lot of back-to-backs, you’re going to need depth throughout the lineup. It’s going to be a challenge, obviously, for our group, but I think it’s a challenge we’re looking forward to.” <<

 

>> In a normal camp, prospects would be given a long look to make the team. With just a 10-day camp this year, however, it will be more difficult for them to impress the coaches and earn a roster spot. But even if prospects like forwards Morgan Frost, Linus Sandin, Carsen Twarynski, Tanner Laczynski, Connor Bunnaman, Wade Allison, and defenseman Mark Friedman don’t make the team, there could be spots on the taxi squad. Those players will travel with the team.

 

“Throughout this year, we’re going to need that organizational depth,” said Vigneault, aware that injuries and possible coronavirus infections could alter the roster at any time. “A lot of guys might not initially be in the lineup, but at some point we ‘re going to need them. When you get the opportunity, it’s your job to make it very hard for me and my coaches to take you out of the lineup, so I expect some good internal competition at all positions.”<<

 

>> The conditioning coaches have been in contact with all the players in the offseason, making sure they were doing drills and in a good shape, Vigneault said. “I’m very confident once we jump on the ice that guys will be in good condition and in good spirits and really looking forward to the challenges ahead of us,” he added. <<

 

>> Vigneault said there were “different possibilities” on who would replace the retired Matt Niskanen on the top defensive pairing with Ivan Provorov. Phil Myers appears to be the top candidate [WRITER'S OPINION], but Vigneault said there are “other possibilities.” He added that having seven or eight skating days in camp with scrimmages “will give different opportunities to different guys to play with Provy and see the fit we may get there. I think there’s going to be a lot of moving parts, depending on how certain guys play and how they arrive in camp. We may have some very positive surprises.” - - Vigneault, who is high on puck-moving Erik Gustafsson, the free-agent defenseman the Flyers signed in the offseason - - << 

 

Welcome back to the very talented Nolan Patrick

 

Oskar Lindblom of the Philadelphia Flyers is congratulated by teammate Nolan Patrick after scoring a goal against the Arizona Coyotes during the...

 

 

Edited by Zzeke
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On 12/19/2020 at 1:29 PM, Zzeke said:

 

Damn !!  You guys are too good at this Flyers history and recognition stuff. I'ma gonna find another Board!

 

Contest points tabulation coming.

 

Next Saturday 12 N will have a Flyers Photo that guaranteed nobody on this Board will get !!

 

 

Jiri Dopita!       😜

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6 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

Thanks for that, posting the main bullets:

  1. Laine’s goalscoring has dramatically fallen off in the past two seasons both in terms of total goals and finishing numbers.

  2. Unlike every other comparable young sniper of the cap era, Laine has a major negative impact on his team’s ability to generate quality scoring chances.

  3. Laine has been fortunate enough to play with some of the league’s top playmakers and finishers in his career, which has papered over those first two issues.

 

So, he's LaFlamme?  😆

 

See the source image

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In today's news - - 

 

Ohhh nooo - - 

  • COM, NHL

    The NHL is expected to approve ads on helmets for the upcoming season.

    With no fans allowed in most arenas, at least to start the season, the NHL is looking at any way they can improve their revenues and having ads on helmets will certainly help. Teams apparently will be allowed to use one logo for home games and the option of using one for away contests but  will not be able to change throughout the season. This will definitely bring a different look to NHL games.

    Dec 22, 2020, 8:43 AM ET
     
    It's coming - - first helmets - - then uniforms - - 
    Can we envision our Flyers like this - - ?
     
    Image
     
    What advertisers would be on our Flyers?
     
    Would we want to see our Flyers skating around with this on them:
    Kmart
    Sprint
    Sears
    NY Yankees
    NE Patriots
    Charmin Ultra Soft
    Veterans Administration
    Genesis Rehab
    Visiting Angels
    Visiting Angels of Monroe - SWCRC

 

Charmin Ultra Soft | Logopedia | Fandom

 

 

 

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The more I read, the less likely we acquire Laine.  This will be a semi-asterisked season that is unlikely to see many prospects make the team directly from what little camp-time they get.  I don't think G or JVR move without an economic recovery that brings a cap increase (probably two years out).  History casts a long shadow.  Homer graced us with two biggies that may not reap much as we go further into the decade.  

 

Our D has a lot of upside.  What we do with a potentially ineffective Ghost is probably the biggest issue other than salary cap problems.  

 

The other issue is depth in goal if either Moose or Hart goes down.  That might require a short-term fix--Lyon might be a spot starter but not sure of more.  

 

 

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In this morning's news (12/22/20) - - Sam Carchidi writes in the Philadelphia Inquirer - - 

 

Could ‘Gus’ be on the top-line bus?

 

Excerpts:

 

Coach Alain Vigneault sounded excited Monday when he talked about a key addition to the lineup this season, defenseman Erik Gustafsson.

 

Gustafsson, a 28-year-old Sweden native, was signed as a free agent in October, inking a one-year deal for $3 million. He will be among a handful of players to get a chance on the top pairing, alongside Ivan Provorov. 

 

In a conference call with reporters Monday, Vigneault said he watched lots of video on Gustafsson in the offseason, and he likes the potential the offensive-minded defenseman brings to the lineup.

 

“We’re getting, in today’s game, a very important defenseman in the sense that he’s a puck-mover who can jump into the play and has good ability to make that first good pass out of our [defensive] zone,” Vigneault said. “He’s very motivated. I saw him when I came to Philly a few weeks back. He was excited to be with our group, excited to help us win. We’re looking forward to get to know him a lot more and helping him help our team.”

 

Gustafsson, who has averaged nearly 20 minutes of ice time per game in his career (19 minutes, 58 seconds), has his best season two years ago, collecting 17 goals and 60 points in 79 games with Chicago. The Flyers plan to use him as part of their defensive rotation and on the power play.

 

Yes! Hope AV/Yeo insert Gus with Provorov on the #1 pairing. Gus is LH but has played almost exclusevly on the Right Side and prefers it.

 

Provorov - Gustafsson
Sanheim - Myers (RH) (don't break them up)
Hagg - Braun (RH)
#7 - Friedman (RH)
Ghost - traded

 

“I played a couple games on the left with Calgary (recently) but it didn’t feel right,’’ he [Gus] said. “So right now I’m used to playing on the right side. I feel more confident on the right side. Whatever the coaches want me to do, I play there.’’

 

Being friends with fellow Swedish defenseman Robert Hagg of the Flyers should help Gustafsson with the transition to a new team. In fact, the two are currently practicing together back home in their native country. Gustafsson also is friends with Oskar Lindblom.

 

“They’re two very good guys to know,’’ Gustafsson said. “I’m looking forward to playing with them.’’


IMO, do not break-up the in-sync, and successful, pair of Sanheim/Myers. We won't be surprised to see AV keep the advantage of having twin towers Sanheim and Myers continued to be paired.

 

They played together with the Phantoms and the Flyers. Knowing your partner well in traits/tendancies/abilities is a big plus. Work in the defensive zone puck retrieval and break-out becomes automatic and efficient.
 

Travis Sanheim and Philippe Myers of the Philadelphia Flyers jump to the ice on a shift change against the Carolina Hurricanes on November 5, 2019 at...

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