5 Takeways From the Minnesota Wild's 2019-20 Season Experience

[Confrontational]

Well, another silver lining would be that Zach and Ryan only have 5 more years on that 13 year contract - but yea, hard to imagine Zach engaging 100% when he was willing to move on...  Watched Scandella play the other day and wondered how different the backend may have been if different decisions were made back then - he looked really good too btw...

 

Anyways, lets hope the Wild can find some of that secret sauce and build around it - I think if Mikko retires it would open the door for that to happen...

[CreaseAndAssist]

3 hours ago, Confrontational said:

Well, another silver lining would be that Zach and Ryan only have 5 more years on that 13 year contract - but yea, hard to imagine Zach engaging 100% when he was willing to move on...  Watched Scandella play the other day and wondered how different the backend may have been if different decisions were made back then - he looked really good too btw...

 

Anyways, lets hope the Wild can find some of that secret sauce and build around it - I think if Mikko retires it would open the door for that to happen...

 

Its funny you say Scandella I saw him in one of the round robin games and thought he looked lost in his own end the way he sometimes did when he was with us.  I don't wonder about a 'what if' with him as much as I do about Alex Tuch.  He seems to be just about everything we wish Greenway showed us more of.  

 

I think you have to move Zach to try to re-esetablish a new culture let alone everything else.      

[OccamsRazor]

Penguins have informed the Wild they are keeping their 15th overall pick in the fall draft, meaning Minnesota will get Pittsburgh’s 2021 first-round pick, which is unprotected. That will complete the Jason Zucker trade.

[IllaZilla]

So who gets bought out, Dubnyk or Rask? Or Patryn?

[Tomdog]

1 hour ago, IllaZilla said:

So who gets bought out, Dubnyk or Rask? Or Patryn?

The one who costs the most. 

[CreaseAndAssist]

On 8/12/2020 at 6:36 PM, IllaZilla said:

So who gets bought out, Dubnyk or Rask? Or Patryn?

 

Dubnyk, because I think Guerin was so disappointed in goaltending (and I think he strongly hinted his disappointment was in #40) and not anyone else.  Pateryn.  He'll stay hurt, which is fine by me because when he came back he looked at least two steps too slow; and reminded me of Kyle Quincey all over again.  

 

As far as Rask goes...he's a center we might as well play him.  But after another season then you buy him out too.  We want to be careful with the buyouts with the fact they have to give Fiala, Kaprizov and probably Brodin pay raises next year.  

 

I think Greenway is tradebait too...you could tell Guerin was very disappointed with how he came to training camp this spring.  

[Alexandron]

 

18 hours ago, CreaseAndAssist said:

 

Dubnyk, because I think Guerin was so disappointed in goaltending (and I think he strongly hinted his disappointment was in #40) and not anyone else.  Pateryn.  He'll stay hurt, which is fine by me because when he came back he looked at least two steps too slow; and reminded me of Kyle Quincey all over again.  

 

As far as Rask goes...he's a center we might as well play him.  But after another season then you buy him out too.  We want to be careful with the buyouts with the fact they have to give Fiala, Kaprizov and probably Brodin pay raises next year.  

 

I think Greenway is tradebait too...you could tell Guerin was very disappointed with how he came to training camp this spring.  

I agree with you and ClusterChuck regarding him. He could be traded. Besides his size I do not see anything special out of him in his play . I lost my hope twice about him, when he wanted to stay for one season in college hockey  and then to play directly in NHL. And the next year he was sent to AHL by the end of the season to be involved in playoffs for the Iowa Wild team, but, it seems, he was not happy and did not show any good game there during such an important time. Kind of a character.

Agree, Rask could stay for a little while. Pateryn , Dumba, Hartman, Bartkowsky, Zuccarello, J.T.Brown, Galchenyk they all could be traded,  if possible, because they do not present any solid base for the team. Instead of them I would be willing to see in our team the young all best players from the Iowa Wild team, which played superbly well the last 2 seasons for the farm club. Rebuild the team by that way is my proposal.

[Alexandron]

Among forwards of the big club I would like to see the players capable of scoring goals first of all. We need offensively minded players first. Enough to see players in the Wild team capable only to pass the puck  and nothing else for a tremendous amount of money in their contracts. 

In addition to my previous message , here is a list of the Iowa Wild players which I really would like to see in our team. I took their stats from the last 2019-2020 season, but also checked their consistency in the previous years too.

1. Gerry Mayhew; 61 points (39 goals;22 assists;+/- + 16) in 49 played games;(LW);

2. Sam Anas; 70 points(20 goals;50 assists; +/- -4) in 63 played games;(C/RW);

3. Nico Sturm; 32 points (12 goals;20 assists; +/- +9) in 55 played games;(center forward)

4. Luke Johnson; 31 points (18 goals;13 assists; +/- -8) in 42 played games; (center forward);

5. Dmitry Sokolov; 22 points (15 goals;7 assists; +/- +12) in 41 played games;(RW);

6. Kyle Rau; 43 points(14 goals;29 assists; +/- -7) in 51 played games;(LW);

7. Connor Dewar I put in that list too, because he was a 3rd player who had +10 in +/- stats after Mayhew(+16) and Sokolov (+12). He had 19 points in his 1st year with the Iowa Wild team(6 goals;13 assists) in 52 played games; he is also a center forward. 

Out of 7 proposed players we have 4 centers; 2 LW and 2 RW. Anas capable to play C and RW.

 

Among defensemen I would like to see 2 players from the Iowa Wild team:

1. Brennan Menell; 47 points(5 goals;42 assists; +/- +8) in 57 played games; who is having superb consistency the last 2 seasons;

2. Louie Belpedio; 20 points (5 goals;15 assists; +/- +3) in 62 played games.

 

And among goalies from the Iowa Wild team I would like to see Kaapo Kahkonen (24 y.o.) as a starter for the main club.He had last season GAA 2.07; 25 wins; 6 losses; 3 OTL; 7 shutouts, and who was named the best goalie in AHL last season.

 

[CreaseAndAssist]

(shrugs)  

 

Mayhew, Rau, Dumont and Anas are AHL ringers.  They'll put up decent numbers at that level but in the NHL it just isn't the same.  Luke Johnson, Nico Sturm are serviceable players in the bottom 6; they may get a decent look.  Sturm especially I think impressed in his two games and management really likes how he takes care of himself too.  IMO, he's the closest thing to a sure thing to get an NHL spot out of this group.  

 

Sokolov, kind of like a Russian-version of Teemu Pulkkinen, in having an NHL-level shot...and the rest is below standard.  While I think he's improved his conditioning since major junior, he's still an incomplete player. 

 

Dewar needs to season in the AHL and last season was certainly an adjustment for him.  He will continue to develop in Iowa along side Brandon Duhaime, Mitchell Chafee, Mason Shaw, Will Bitten and Damien Giroux.  Anas is a player we'd have to re-sign and I don't think we will.  He did everything right in Iowa.  He didn't complain but he never got a shot with the big club.  But that's life in pro sports.    

 

As far as Belpedio and Menell go, they may get a chance if the Wild deal a Top 4 defenseman to get a quality center for their Top 6.  Both Belpedio and Menell are RFA's but I would think they'd be had for fairly affordable deals.  Yet they've been good soldiers in Iowa and haven't looked too bad when they've had chances at the NHL level too.  Especially if the Wild cannot re-sign UFA Carson Soucy...one of them may have to move into that bottom pairing spot.   

Edited August 15, 2020 by CreaseAndAssist

[Alexandron]

On 8/15/2020 at 8:46 AM, CreaseAndAssist said:

(shrugs)  

 

Mayhew, Rau, Dumont and Anas are AHL ringers.  They'll put up decent numbers at that level but in the NHL it just isn't the same.  Luke Johnson, Nico Sturm are serviceable players in the bottom 6; they may get a decent look.  Sturm especially I think impressed in his two games and management really likes how he takes care of himself too.  IMO, he's the closest thing to a sure thing to get an NHL spot out of this group.  

 

Sokolov, kind of like a Russian-version of Teemu Pulkkinen, in having an NHL-level shot...and the rest is below standard.  While I think he's improved his conditioning since major junior, he's still an incomplete player. 

 

Dewar needs to season in the AHL and last season was certainly an adjustment for him.  He will continue to develop in Iowa along side Brandon Duhaime, Mitchell Chafee, Mason Shaw, Will Bitten and Damien Giroux.  Anas is a player we'd have to re-sign and I don't think we will.  He did everything right in Iowa.  He didn't complain but he never got a shot with the big club.  But that's life in pro sports.    

 

As far as Belpedio and Menell go, they may get a chance if the Wild deal a Top 4 defenseman to get a quality center for their Top 6.  Both Belpedio and Menell are RFA's but I would think they'd be had for fairly affordable deals.  Yet they've been good soldiers in Iowa and haven't looked too bad when they've had chances at the NHL level too.  Especially if the Wild cannot re-sign UFA Carson Soucy...one of them may have to move into that bottom pairing spot.   

I still would give those forwards a good tryout (about same amount of games as EEK, Kunin and Greenway had) in the big club for the real determination  them as NHL players, especially for Mayhew. I did not mentioned Gabriel Dumont (29 y.o. player) among forwards in my previous message, because he had a tryout in 4 NHL teams since 2011. It seems he is an AHL ringer. 

And I still want to see a good tryout in the big club both defensemen Menell(23 y.o. Minnesotan) and Belpedio (24 y.o.), because they, it seems, are pretty smart play-makers. 

We need to do some changes in the team. Let's try that way. I do not want to see the way as we did with talented Alex Tuch, when he had only 6 games in the Wild team and then was traded to Vegas. In my opinion, that amount of games is not enough to make a solid conclusion for the NHL ringers.  

[CreaseAndAssist]

That's not going to happen.  It just isn't.  They have other players in mind for those spots.  Menell and Belpedio may get a chance if Soucy gets signed by someone else.  But Mayhew etc...I don't think they'll get much of a chance.  Even after all they did in Iowa; they'll get call ups, but barring major injuries they will probably be short stints of a few games here and there.  

[Alexandron]

On 8/18/2020 at 6:34 PM, CreaseAndAssist said:

That's not going to happen.  It just isn't.  They have other players in mind for those spots.  Menell and Belpedio may get a chance if Soucy gets signed by someone else.  But Mayhew etc...I don't think they'll get much of a chance.  Even after all they did in Iowa; they'll get call ups, but barring major injuries they will probably be short stints of a few games here and there.  

Then we will have the same team as we had seen for the last 20 years. 2-3 elite players will not make a nice stable "weather" for the entire team. The nice stable "weather" should make the entire solid team. I do not see that so far.

Do you believe it - we have a round number 20 years since our team was established as a Wild team? 20 years  I am as a consistent fan for this team. Unfortunately, was not the best year for it including playoffs. Not much to celebrate that number except maybe of discovering Fiala and Kahkonen talents as well as an intriguing contract of Kapizov for the Wild team.

[lynxrattle]

One problem is our lack of success in the AHL. If we had major success in the AHL playoffs, we would know that the top players from Iowa would have a good chance of making it in the NHL. We could then give them a longer period of adjusting to the big league. Now we're uncertain about the value of the best players in Iowa, and can't give them too many games to show their value.

[IllaZilla]

7 hours ago, lynxrattle said:

One problem is our lack of success in the AHL. If we had major success in the AHL playoffs, we would know that the top players from Iowa would have a good chance of making it in the NHL. We could then give them a longer period of adjusting to the big league. Now we're uncertain about the value of the best players in Iowa, and can't give them too many games to show their value.

Lack of success in Iowa may be part of the problem, but the biggest problem in my opinion is the Wild's drafting. They continually pick in those 10-20 slots. You may get a good player in those slots, but not someone you can build a team around. They have no "Go To" player on the roster.

 

The Wild chose to build around Parise, Suter, and Koivu rather than through the draft. And we've seen over the past several seasons the results of this strategy. They have a good team, one that can get into the Playoffs, but then implodes in the first round.

[CreaseAndAssist]

39 minutes ago, IllaZilla said:

Lack of success in Iowa may be part of the problem, but the biggest problem in my opinion is the Wild's drafting. They continually pick in those 10-20 slots. You may get a good player in those slots, but not someone you can build a team around. They have no "Go To" player on the roster.

 

The Wild chose to build around Parise, Suter, and Koivu rather than through the draft. And we've seen over the past several seasons the results of this strategy. They have a good team, one that can get into the Playoffs, but then implodes in the first round.

 

I Tweeted a ton about this yesterday.  How the Wild continued to have to spin the fact that forwards they drafted in the 1st round being a serviceable 3rd line player.  But the Top 6 were mostly made of free agents; which meant they were usually older and slower.  And over time it has caught up to the organization.  

 

Hopefully with a new scouting director and a revamped staff we'll start drafting better.  But the draft has (for the most part) not served this Wild organization too well.  It hasn't done anything to boost them out of their cycle of mediocrity.  

 

A friend of mine on Twitter had some great tweets about this issue as well.  I repost some of that here.  

 

Last night we discussed the last 9 forwards taken in the 1st round by the #mnwild  & the 163 goals the team got from them. Here is the rest of the Central with their last 9 1st round forwards and goals for the team:

 

Winn-914 Col-698 StL-594 Chi-585 Nash-551 Dall-450 #mnwild-163

 

Was curious about the “draft position” argument.

Regarding the 9 1st rders, this is the breakdown:

 

In top-10: Winn-5 Nash-4 Minn-3 Col-3 Dal-2 Chi-2 StL-0

 

In top 15: Nash-6 Winn-6 Minn-5 Col-5 Dall-5 Chi-3 StL-2

 

The #mnwild has been neolithically horrible in the draft room.

[lynxrattle]

Those numbers are absolutely horrendous! They do tell a clear story about a continuous and total disaster in drafting.

[IllaZilla]

Not sure where the 163 goals came from, I've got 263 (which is still terrible), but the scary thing is two players accounted for  200 of those goals.

 

#12 Boldy - 0

#15 Kunin - 23

#20 Eriksson-Ek - 24

#18 Tuch - 0

#9 Granlund - 93

#16 Gillies - 3

#9 Sheppard - 11

#4 Pouliot - 9

#8 Bouchard - 110

[CreaseAndAssist]

3 hours ago, IllaZilla said:

Not sure where the 163 goals came from, I've got 263 (which is still terrible), but the scary thing is two players accounted for  200 of those goals.

 

#12 Boldy - 0

#15 Kunin - 23

#20 Eriksson-Ek - 24

#18 Tuch - 0

#9 Granlund - 93

#16 Gillies - 3

#9 Sheppard - 11

#4 Pouliot - 9

#8 Bouchard - 110

 

Still pretty bleak and concentrated into just two players.  

[Alexandron]

On 8/20/2020 at 12:28 AM, lynxrattle said:

One problem is our lack of success in the AHL. If we had major success in the AHL playoffs, we would know that the top players from Iowa would have a good chance of making it in the NHL. We could then give them a longer period of adjusting to the big league. Now we're uncertain about the value of the best players in Iowa, and can't give them too many games to show their value.

Regarding AHL results , in my opinion, unfortunately, we have no huge luck not only with our drafted prospects there, but with signed and re-signed oldish not presenting a huge interest players for the Iowa Wild team which affecting our results too. It should be a better scouting in that direction, in my opinion. You can check the recent Iowa Wild team main link. Sincerely, I am not surprised, because I have seen that consistently, especially the last few years. I still think that we should give to our best AHL young players (mainly to our drafted prospects) more time in the big club for their better evaluation.

[Alexandron]

I just looked also through a Greenway stats for 3 seasons who is playing with us (2015;2nd round;50th overall). He tried multiple times in different lines in the big club and having in 154 NHL played games 20 goals;33 assists;+/-  -10. Are these OK stats for so many games playing in the Wild uniform? I am sure Alex Tuch will be able to put more goals if he played the same amount of games here. He just played only 6 games with us, which was really not enough for his evaluation. The other example, James Sheppard(2006; 1st round;#9 overall) also played 3 seasons with us. In 224 played games  he had 11 goals; 38 assists; +/- -28. Sheppard had plenty of games for his evaluation here and really showed his lack of NHL talent, which also confirmed by his play for San Jose Sharks and New York Rangers teams. 

From my observation, this topic presents some interest  for fans, media,and etc. In the last couple of days we have almost a couple hundreds views which is a rare event for our forum at this time of the year.

 

[Hockey-78]

8 minutes ago, Alexandron said:

I just looked also through a Greenway stats for 3 seasons who is playing with us (2015;2nd round;50th overall). He tried multiple times in different lines in the big club and having in 154 NHL played games 20 goals;33 assists;+/-  -10. Are these OK stats for so many games playing in the Wild uniform? I am sure Alex Tuch will be able to put more goals if he played the same amount of games here.

 

While one might question Greenway's desire and effort to become a genuine scoring machine, by the same token one might question the team's desire to put him in a position to make a name for himself. 

 

This team has never been renowned for scoring prowess. IMO Greenway's stats follow that line. In any other team those stats would be below average but since he's a 2 rounder and this is the Wild we're speaking, those are not horrible. Some might argue those are OK.

 

Tuch would put more goals yes if... woulda-shoulda-coulda. I don't think that comparison is fair since first of all Tuch has more raw talent and in Vegas they gave him a fair chance to blossom. 

[Alexandron]

On 8/21/2020 at 1:09 PM, Hockey-78 said:

While one might question Greenway's desire and effort to become a genuine scoring machine, by the same token one might question the team's desire to put him in a position to make a name for himself. 

 

This team has never been renowned for scoring prowess. IMO Greenway's stats follow that line. In any other team those stats would be below average but since he's a 2 rounder and this is the Wild we're speaking, those are not horrible. Some might argue those are OK.

 

Tuch would put more goals yes if... woulda-shoulda-coulda. I don't think that comparison is fair since first of all Tuch has more raw talent and in Vegas they gave him a fair chance to blossom. 

I am completely agree with that. Still in this discussion, my main idea was to show that we need to change team's mentality towards offensive style in all 4 lines or at least in 3 lines. Actually I am proposing that for years. For that reason, we definitely need a better players evaluation in that direction. Greenway, Sheppard and Tuch were just a small examples for a wrong selection of NHL calibers in our team and results are evident. We gave to Greenway and Sheppard plenty of games in 3 years, but did not see they are not fitting well to that NHL position. And Alex Tuch played only 6 games for our team and wrongly was traded to Vegas without his enough evaluation. Certainly , he is an NHL caliber player who placed plenty of goals in Vegas. Even now he has 4 goals and 1 assist in 8 playoffs games so far. In his career 35 NHL playoffs games he has 11 goals and 4 assists. I do not think Wild has a drafted player who is having these stats the last decade. Our best Granlund had 9 goals in 44 playoffs when played for the Wild team. Probably, only Gaborik had a better playoffs stats the decade before (20 goals in 41 played games when played in a Wild uniform).

     In my opinion, most of the time, success in current professional hockey having teams capable to place 3 or more goals per game, especially during the crucial playoffs time. Unfortunately, we do not fit into this category. By looking at teams who moved to the extremely interesting round 2 these 2020 playoffs -practically, they all very offensively minded teams (they were able to put 5-7 goals per game). Presenting an intriguing interest series between  Dallas and Colorado. Our former player - goalie Anton Khudobin has so far a success  with a Dallas team, as well as their star rookie Gurianov(had 4 goals in 1 game and total 6 goals in 10 playoffs games). Why we traded Khudobin for nothing without a real evaluation I still do not understand? Special admire presenting for the consistency 1st year Dallas player a Wisconsin native  36 y.o. Joe Pavelsky (2003;7th round;205th overall) who played before for 13 seasons at San Jose Sharks and even played at KHL Dynamo Minsk team during our lockout in 2012-2013 years. At these playoffs series he has 6 goals in 10 played games already. That was an example,  even a 7th round pick could be a superb NHL player if was evaluated the right way. We need to give a good amount of NHL games (maybe 50 to 100) to our each promising prospect to make a final conclusion if he is fitting or not fitting into an NHL caliber position for our team even that prospect was drafted a 7th or higher round pick or even if he is not looking superbly well in his physical conditions. We still need to try them . 

[CreaseAndAssist]

Greenway has had chances to do more.  He gives us flashes...same as his predecessor in Charlie Coyle.  IMO, very similar situations.  Players who are physically gifted, have talent...but only were able to tease with their potential.  The Wild haven't given many of those young players the chance to be used in top line roles, fair point.  But beyond a few infrequent flashes what has he shown that demonstrates he's worthy of that.  Tuch was never really given that chance for 2-3 seasons like Greenway to step up to that role.  

 

Greenway didn't play with a lot of desire in his time in the AHL other than when he felt he had to get out there.  But when that team needed him in the post-season, he and Ryan Donato more or less went through the motions.  I feel we saw much the same with the big club in this year's play-in series.  Its easier to give that chance and opportunity when one compels you to do so.  But when they seem to be indifferent, its not going to force the issue.  Bill Guerin seems to be annoyed with him and that is evaluating for a season.  

 

It doesn't mean Greenway is a horrible player at all.  But even role players can raise their game.  We see it in the playoffs often.  With many of the teams that ultimately win, you'll see a role player raise their game to be a clutch performer as it often becomes the x-factor in advancing in the post season.  Some role players almost make a career out of it; of being clutch and taking their game to another level in the post-season.  

 

Sometimes its just a matter of fit.  Does Greenway fit with what Bill Guerin wants to do with this Wild club?  Does he wants this team to be a faster (albeit smaller) skilled club?  Or is it better suited to playing a heavy game?  I think we've tried the heavy game and it hasn't yielded much success in the post-season.  And with smaller skilled players like Fiala, Kaprizov and perhaps some others we've drafted already that are still developing or yet to be selected.  We're going to build that kind of team.  Is there a place for a Greenway, Foligno, Eriksson Ek if you want to be fast and skilled?