Round 2: Flyers vs Islanders Thread

[Podein25]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

It's down right scary when you're the voice of reason....gulp

 

Right? 

 

Here's the thing. This can turn on a dime. I realize, given the play of our top players, that it's probably unlikely, but it can happen. The truth is that it's all very tight. The difference between winning and losing, between looking like a juggernaut that can't be beat (see: Flyers in late February), to looking like a crappy AHL team, is actually very small. A lucky bounce here and there, a slip, a fanned shot, a wrong turn, and post and out vs a post and in - the game and the series can turn on anything like that. I want to see the effort, and I do see it. 

 

I also think that AV can turn this around because I think he has some special talent at that.

[Math]

20 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

Never underestimate the stupidity of GMs in hockey. Taylor Hall for Larson, remember that? If someone proposed that trade on this forum , everyone would laugh,  it it actually happened. Just because you don’t value Ghost, does not mean another team does not think he could produce like he used to in their system. 

 

One of the most terrible deal in the decade I remember so far was Nick Leddy for Barker/Johnsson. Do you know Barker and Johnsson? Me neither.

 

Bottom point, that trade was done by Fletcher.

[OccamsRazor]

7 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

I realize, given the play of our top players, that it's probably unlikely, but it can happen.

 

For me it's not about them not playing well.

 

It's more about them playing terrible.

 

Charlie O'Connor

 

@charlieo_conn

 

Count me in the "it doesn't matter what depth guys do if 28/14/11 have zero goals & a 40% xG For in the playoffs" crew. Also, it's kinda a rough look to complain re: depth after a Game 1 where Grant was PHI's best play-driver & Thompson did better vs. Barzal than Coots did.

[fan4ever]

Not to make excuses for them in any way but....I'm sure that this has to be a difficult situation for them all, being away from their families for this extended period.  It must be like being on a never-ending road trip.  With some of them having new babies, young babies, etc., it has to hurt.  

 

All teams are obviously going through this as well but it may have some bearing on their play. 

 

That being said.....Pick it up boys!!!!!  We can't have Carter Hart being the only player that seems to care!!!!

[Podein25]

Just now, OccamsRazor said:

It's more about them playing terrible.

 

Yeah ok, so here's what I'm trying to say: the line between what looks great vs good vs average vs terrible is razor thin. When things aren't going well, when they are out of synch or whatever, it can look horrible. But that's a symptom not the cause. They are not individually all playing terrible. They look terrible, at time, for sure. But, explain the second period then, when we were all over them? Were the Isles a terrible hockey team then? No, they were the same team as in the first. 

[eleven24]

18 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Right? 

 

Here's the thing. This can turn on a dime. I realize, given the play of our top players, that it's probably unlikely, but it can happen. The truth is that it's all very tight. The difference between winning and losing, between looking like a juggernaut that can't be beat (see: Flyers in late February), to looking like a crappy AHL team, is actually very small. A lucky bounce here and there, a slip, a fanned shot, a wrong turn, and post and out vs a post and in - the game and the series can turn on anything like that. I want to see the effort, and I do see it. 

 

I also think that AV can turn this around because I think he has some special talent at that.

Of course a series can turn quickly, but the red flags have been waving enough now that I think it's time to stop putting this on a lucky bounce here or there, a slip, fanned shot, posts, etc.  Good players make their own opportunities, they're not reliant upon some twist of fate to be in their favor.  

 

Perhaps our top players are simply top players in February, but not come playoff time.

 

BTW - I've owned 4 Flyers jerseys in my life.  Clarke, Poulin, Podein, Kapanen.  That right there should tell you how I expect players to play when pulling on the O&B.

Edited August 25, 2020 by eleven24

[Podein25]

Just now, eleven24 said:

Good players make their own opportunities, they're not reliant upon some twist of fate to be in their favor.  

 

Yup. That's why they play a 7 game series

 

Just now, eleven24 said:

Perhaps our top players are simply top players in February, but not come playoff time.

 

That's why the play the games. We will find out soon enough.

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, Podein25 said:

Yup. That's why they play a 7 game series

 

They keep this up and I smell a sweep there won't be no 7 games.

 

But I'm going to listen to you (God help me) and see what happens tomorrow since they haven't lost back to back games since January.

 

In the meantime you should preparing your second excuse....

 

Trust The Bourbon

[mojo1917]

When the boys put up a stinker, they don't **** around, they really really stink.

I don't see lack of effort, I don't know what the people who type that are looking for.

I do see a lack of finishing.

I don't see Giroux with the puck clowning guys, I don't see him with the puck period. When he does get his chances he's ringing posts.

Couturier was garbage last night, when was the last time I've typed that?

After getting surprised by the Islanders attacking in the same manner as the Habs, the Flyers played pretty okay for the next 30 minutes.

Problem is, the game is 60 so until they put together a full 60 playing their style and tempo this just barely winning and getting the stuffing beat out of them is what we're in for. 

For me there were a couple of things that stood out. When the Flyers structure breaks down there's always a 1 on 0 below the dots.

That **** just can't happen the Pageau goal was just terrible IMO. Also, the coach pulls the goalie to try and get some points and the Islanders bank the puck off the glass and into the net? It just wasn't their night.

This was a bad loss but I don't think all is lost. There are plays to be made, guys need to make them. The Isles aren't clogging the NZ and our guys were getting to the inside.  There are gaps to be exploited...Our guys need to be able to finish though.

Anders Lee reminds me of Patrick Elias,  he just makes the play that needs made when it's needs made. 

 

 

 

[eleven24]

3 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

 

That's why the play the games. We will find out soon enough.

 

Ok, valid.  BUT Giroux is a +4 in 79 career playoff games.  1 goal in his last 23 playoff games.  5 in his last 33 dating back to 2012.  He's the guy with the "C" on his jersey.  

 

That said, I hope he blows someone up with a huge hit tomorrow and scores or sets someone else up to score.  That's the G I'm waiting for, but frustrated when he never shows up.  

[mojo1917]

RE: Frost

I've seen a bunch of calls to see Morgan Frost make an appearance.

He hasn't played NHL hockey in a long time, people who write regularly about the Flyers think it's a bad idea to bring him in/up.

If he's going to be great, he's got to start somewhere. I don't think I agree with those who think it would hamper his development.  He's either going to do it or not, I remember when Giroux came up and killed a penalty for 20 seconds with no stick as a rookie fresh out of junior... Either Frost is like that or he's just a guy.  Is it time to find out? Is he practicing well? 

Also the same lack of playing argument could be made for Lindblom, should he be sheltered when he's ready?

This is why I'm glad I'm not the GM. 

[eleven24]

6 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

he Isles aren't clogging the NZ and our guys were getting to the inside.  There are gaps to be exploited...Our guys need to be able to finish though.

 

 

I said this to my son while watching the game.  A lot more room to move through the NZ.  Even dumping the puck in there's no Price back there to get it and move it out to the D.  Flyers need to get back to dictating play and stop reacting to what the other team is doing.

[SCFlyguy]

1 hour ago, Podein25 said:

It's a 7-game series folks, jeez man. 

 

The Flyers are not playing well right now, to be sure. Except for that second period in last night's game, where we were all over them and just didn't score. Last time I checked, the Isles are a pro hockey team made up of pro hockey players of various talent and character. They are well-coached. Probably one of the best coached. 

 

So the line between winning and losing is very thin. Let's just calm down a bit. It's exhausting walking up to the ledge and back again every game, every shift.

I'm calm.  I predicted Islanders in 6 and I'll stick to it.  I'm just shaking my head at posters underestimating the Islanders.  They were one of the best teams in hockey through the first half until they got hit with a couple key injuries.  I wish the Flyers played with half their grit and skating.

 

I will say that Varlamov looked mortal last night; he gave up a several big rebounds but no Flyers were ever in position to get them, which, again, is one of the Islanders' strengths.

 

Also, despite the Flyers controlling play in the second, I only recall about 2 real chances from in close.  Everything else was way outside.

[mojo1917]

8 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

I'm just shaking my head at posters underestimating the Islanders. 

 

Who would that be?

 

**** the Islanders, do you mean saying something like that?

Do you mean thinking if our guys play well they will win?

Our guys haven't played well.  In the meetings with the Islanders this year, the losses were fluky IMO. 

They weren't drilling the Flyers asses, it was miracle moves by Barzal and seeing eye shots from Pullock with the goalie pulled. 

 

If our guys don't pick it up , your prediction will be wrong, because it will one or two games too many. 

The result will have less to do with the Islanders play than it does the Flyers. 

If our guys play well, I like their chances. If that's underestimating the Islanders then okay . I'm guilty.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, fan4ever said:

Not to make excuses for them in any way but....I'm sure that this has to be a difficult situation for them all, being away from their families for this extended period.  It must be like being on a never-ending road trip.  With some of them having new babies, young babies, etc., it has to hurt.  

 

All teams are obviously going through this as well but it may have some bearing on their play. 

 

That being said.....Pick it up boys!!!!!  We can't have Carter Hart being the only player that seems to care!!!!

 

Sure I get it but it's a level playing field the opposition is going through the same thing.

 

If you can't handle it opt out like Rask did you owe it to your teammates that if your head isn't in the game then they are better off without you.

 

Hey I get i was deployed during wartime when I was younger but I did my best to not think about home and missing your family and I did it because I knew it could affect mine and the safety of my teammates if I don't have my mind on my task at hand.

 

And many couldn't handle it and asked for orders back home.

 

So I get it and I know it ain't easy but you knew it going into if you truly expected to win the Cup it will take over 2 months to get there.

 

So as I said suck it and get the job done.

 

Or man up and opt out. Period.

Edited August 25, 2020 by OccamsRazor
Bourbons getting low...

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

 

I don't see Giroux with the puck clowning guys, I don't see him with the puck period.

 

I know it is alarming, eye opening we are seeing him fall apart right before my eyes.

 

I always had a gut feeling they should have moved him after that Cap series where he finished -10 it is like he just doesn't have it any more.

 

Don't know what else to say about him.

[Lindbergh31]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

They keep this up and I smell a sweep there won't be no 7 games.

 

But I'm going to listen to you (God help me) and see what happens tomorrow since they haven't lost back to back games since January.

 

In the meantime you should preparing your second excuse....

 

Trust The Bourbon

Well the Flyers finally get a goalie who keeps them in games to give them a chance to win and now they can't score, go figure. We'll see who shows up for game 2.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

RE: Frost

I've seen a bunch of calls to see Morgan Frost make an appearance.

He hasn't played NHL hockey in a long time, people who write regularly about the Flyers think it's a bad idea to bring him in/up.

If he's going to be great, he's got to start somewhere. I don't think I agree with those who think it would hamper his development.  He's either going to do it or not, I remember when Giroux came up and killed a penalty for 20 seconds with no stick as a rookie fresh out of junior... Either Frost is like that or he's just a guy.  Is it time to find out? Is he practicing well? 

Also the same lack of playing argument could be made for Lindblom, should he be sheltered when he's ready?

This is why I'm glad I'm not the GM. 

 

I think so scarch Thompson and put him on the 4th with Grant and Pitlick or some other bottom 6 guy like Raffl but Jesus stop living in fear that he may make a damn mistake do you realize (not exactly you) how many mistakes I have had to wstch these so called vets/big guns make now going on over two frigging weeks?

 

Let the kid play through it who know by the 3rd period it could pay good dividends.

 

I know one thing rearranging the chairs on the damn titanic ain't f**king working!

 

Sorry for my rant not aimed at you.

 

Carry on.

[OccamsRazor]

37 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

The result will have less to do with the Islanders play than it does the Flyers. 

If our guys play well, I like their chances. If that's underestimating the Islanders then okay . I'm guilty.

 

Exactly the Flyers were the hottest team in the NHL before it ended.

 

And it is what most of us were hoping we would see thay play resume but it didn't.

 

And it didn't have anything to do with the Canadians or the Fish sticks the Flyers are their own worst enemies.

 

The only thing that can save them is them finding that type of game again.

 

When they were playing well I thought there wasn't a team in the NHL they couldn't hang with.

 

That isn't the case anymore. Not sure if we'll see that confident team again this summer...

[eleven24]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

RE: Frost

 

If he's going to be great, he's got to start somewhere. I don't think I agree with those who think it would hamper his development.  He's either going to do it or not, I remember when Giroux came up and killed a penalty for 20 seconds with no stick as a rookie fresh out of junior... Either Frost is like that or he's just a guy.  Is it time to find out? Is he practicing well? 

 

 

This whole coddling of players is ridiculous.  The kid's been playing hockey his entire life.  Every 2 years or so since the age of 5 he moved up a level, had to play against tougher competition.  He did it, and kept getting better.  Had horrible games, had great games.  Learned from the horrible ones and they made him a better player.

 

That's what being a hockey player is.

 

Just let the kid play.  If one game in the NHL playoffs tanks the kid's career, then he was nothing special to begin with.

[eleven24]

9 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

When they were playing well I thought there wasn't a team in the NHL they couldn't hang with.

 

 

What I see is a team that has completely abandoned the aggressive forecheck.  Opposing teams meet resistance in the NZ, not their own DZ.  There's a large gap between the 1 and the 2-2 part of the forecheck.  I don't remember that when they were playing well.  When they were on their game it was more of a 1-2 (or even 2-1) rotating hard on the forecheck with the D pair in at the blue line.  They simply did not allow other teams to turn up ice and continually forced turnovers.  That's just not happening right now.

 

Is it simply being tentative?  Is it by AV's design?

[RonJeremy]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I wonder if it is possible to package Ghost and JVR to some other team for a decent return...

 

Edit: I swear I made this question after reading your first post and then afterwards saw you suggested something like that.

 

Great minds think alike. I always knew I had a porn stars brain...

LOL, yes . All ass punishers think alike.

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, Podein25 said:

 

Those same guys were leading the best team in hockey when the pause happened. So was that just luck?

 

I agree that things aren't working well for them right now, but I don't see lack of effort. 

 

Have a little faith is all I'm saying...

Im with you Pods. Great post. I just dont understand it. I cant recall ever seeing a Flyer team play like this, where the top guys cant score a damn goal. It is definitely concerning that it has this many games in a row, with this type of play. They look completely out of sync on offense, and the PP.  What makes matters worse, this type of slump can really cause you to grip your stick a little harder

 

Im convinced they have a great coaching staff that can fix this. Thats why they were playing the way they were when the season was halted. I just hope they can do it in time

 

My faith is a strong as ever, probably because the bottle isnt empty yet

[RonJeremy]

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

RE: Frost

I've seen a bunch of calls to see Morgan Frost make an appearance.

He hasn't played NHL hockey in a long time, people who write regularly about the Flyers think it's a bad idea to bring him in/up.

If he's going to be great, he's got to start somewhere. I don't think I agree with those who think it would hamper his development.  He's either going to do it or not, I remember when Giroux came up and killed a penalty for 20 seconds with no stick as a rookie fresh out of junior... Either Frost is like that or he's just a guy.  Is it time to find out? Is he practicing well? 

Also the same lack of playing argument could be made for Lindblom, should he be sheltered when he's ready?

This is why I'm glad I'm not the GM. 

Remember when we called up Frost the first time? He did spark the offense and score a few goals. Even if it’s a game or two, let’s see what he can do. Does anyone remember Todd Bergen , 1985 playoffs? If not, google him...

[RonJeremy]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I know it is alarming, eye opening we are seeing him fall apart right before my eyes.

 

I always had a gut feeling they should have moved him after that Cap series where he finished -10 it is like he just doesn't have it any more.

 

Don't know what else to say about him.

He should be moved to the third line ,maybe he will have more space to operate not being up against their best players.