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yave1964

Flyers year in review

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Thanks @yave1964 as always a great perspective. 

 

It will be interesting to see which of the veterans remain, I am one of the bigger Giroux supporters in our forum.

Starting to look like he's not a top line player, during big boy season. 

What sort of value comes back for him? 

Feels like selling low on a diminishing product.

Shame, he was a big  reason the team was watchable for the last 5 years, carried the team during that time.  

I can't disagree with your assessment though. 

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6 hours ago, yave1964 said:

Pitlick

 

I think he will be resigned. He's earned it, for one thing.

 

EDIT: thanks for the write up. Well done as always.

Edited by Podein25
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4 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

I think he will be resigned. He's earned it, for one thing.

 

EDIT: thanks for the write up. Well done as always.

I like Pitlick, he had a solid underappreciated season, the problem is there are only so many jobs to go around and the Flyers have so many good young forwards who are here already or pushing from below that a veteran spear carrier like Pitlick tends to get pushed aside. It happened to him in Dallas and it could, even likely will happen in Philly. He does a lot of the P/K hard work that goes under the radar type of stuff and can even score a little bit, but his upside is limited and the Flyers are facing a lot of hard decisions roster wise. 

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5 hours ago, yave1964 said:

I like Pitlick, he had a solid underappreciated season, the problem is there are only so many jobs to go around and the Flyers have so many good young forwards who are here already or pushing from below that a veteran spear carrier like Pitlick tends to get pushed aside. It happened to him in Dallas and it could, even likely will happen in Philly. He does a lot of the P/K hard work that goes under the radar type of stuff and can even score a little bit, but his upside is limited and the Flyers are facing a lot of hard decisions roster wise. 

Clitlick was a top performer for us in the playoffs. Im sure he will want a raise, the question is how much? We do not have much cap space after we sign some of our RFA. On the right wing we have, Voracek, Konecny, Kubel and Pitlick. We also have Sandin who has offensive skill, so I wouldn't be surprised to see Kubel take Pitlicks role and Sandin take the last spot on right wing. Only way there is room is if we trade Jake or have someone play the off wing. 

 

 

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41 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

Clitlick was a top performer for us in the playoffs. Im sure he will want a raise, the question is how much? We do not have much cap space after we sign some of our RFA. On the right wing we have, Voracek, Konecny, Kubel and Pitlick. We also have Sandin who has offensive skill, so I wouldn't be surprised to see Kubel take Pitlicks role and Sandin take the last spot on right wing. Only way there is room is if we trade Jake or have someone play the off wing. 

 

 

 

It seems the have around 8.9 mill to use to resign NAK, Myers and a backup goalie.

 

I can see NAK getting a two year Raffl like deal (2 year 1.6 m per).

 

Myers getting a two year Sanheim like deal ( 2 year 3.25 mill per).

 

Then the hardest part do they resign Elliott and what about Hagg a RFA.

 

They would have around 4 mill left to do this. Should they look else where for a backup or roll with Elliott??

 

And then is there anything left for Pitclick???

 

Will they try and move Ghost out since he isn't getting any love from the current coaching staff...why keep him??

 

We could see something go down at the draft to give us answers.

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the expansion draft will be impacting, I think

 

Giroux will be covered. So will Hayes. Obviously Coots and TK. That's 4. Will the last 3 be Laughton, Pitlick and Raffl? Or do you protect Voracek and hope that it will be JVR?

 

I would personally take this route and hopefully force JVR to be the obvious pick

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37 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Will the last 3 be Laughton, Pitlick and Raffl?

 

They have to be under contract to be able to count/covered.

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Adding to the post-mortem of a season I ended up following closely, but not posting much about.

 

Overall, a very good first year for AV/Fletcher. 

 

It's nice to see what an excellent coaching staff can accomplish.  That said, he had some down moments in the POs.  He had no answer for Trotz, but I wonder if that was more of a player execution thing.  I know he's not responsible directly for the PP, but it's poor PO performance reflects on AV.  Also, no one should allow him to challenge a play.   

 

Hayes and Pitlick, two signings for which Fletcher received some criticism, were great additions to the team.  But, I question the wisdom of acquiring Thompson and Grant.  They contributed nothing, particularly in the POs.  I generally agree with the notion that some of the younger guys like Frost may not have been NHL ready (or at least were better served playing quality minutes in the AHL) and so I think it was better that they served time in the AHL.  But, Thompson and Grant can't play in the league (or at least on this team).  The speed and compete level of the game have passed them by.  Maybe they were the only options in the market.  I don't know.

 

It's a shame, but Giroux is not a top line player.  His best years are in the past.  He was never an exceptional skater and now the speed of the game and his age have caught up to him.  I don't question his desire.  I just don't think his body will do what his mind wants it to do.  I don't know what to do with him.  His recent years were wasted here with an ill-fated "retooling" and a coach who had no clue.  Feel bad for Claude.  Maybe he can do what Stevie Y did in his later years with the Wings and become more of a two-way or even a defensive player.

 

Voracek is maddening.  He looks great and then looks like ****.  

 

I love Konency.  But, he needs to get his ass out of his head.  But, he's a high risk/high reward player.  You need guys like him.

 

I think this is Couturier's team now.  And, to a degree, Hayes' team.

 

As mentioned, I think Pitlick and also NAK and Laughton had very good showings.  Lindblom also blossomed.

 

Love Provorov and his work ethic.  Sanheim and Myers need to work on some things.  Myers has surpassed Sanheim, imo.  Niskanen had a good regular season, but looked gassed in the PO rounds.  Same with Braun, though I thought Braun had some poor games in the regular season too.  Hagg is decent for a 6th d-man.

 

Really think Fletcher has work cut out for him.  He needs to free up cap space to fix the bottom 6 and to add some scoring punch.  Have to rid ourselves of JVR and Ghost.  Fletcher talked about being active in the trade market.  If so, he's probably going to have to part with picks and prospects as well to get anything back that isn't just someone else's disappointing player.

 

At least he doesn't need a goaltender.  Great season for Hart and he's probably the brightest spot on the ice.  Would bring back Elliot as well.

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2 hours ago, vis said:

Adding to the post-mortem of a season I ended up following closely, but not posting much about.

 

Overall, a very good first year for AV/Fletcher. 

 

It's nice to see what an excellent coaching staff can accomplish.  That said, he had some down moments in the POs.  He had no answer for Trotz, but I wonder if that was more of a player execution thing.  I know he's not responsible directly for the PP, but it's poor PO performance reflects on AV.  Also, no one should allow him to challenge a play.   

 

Hayes and Pitlick, two signings for which Fletcher received some criticism, were great additions to the team.  But, I question the wisdom of acquiring Thompson and Grant.  They contributed nothing, particularly in the POs.  I generally agree with the notion that some of the younger guys like Frost may not have been NHL ready (or at least were better served playing quality minutes in the AHL) and so I think it was better that they served time in the AHL.  But, Thompson and Grant can't play in the league (or at least on this team).  The speed and compete level of the game have passed them by.  Maybe they were the only options in the market.  I don't know.

 

It's a shame, but Giroux is not a top line player.  His best years are in the past.  He was never an exceptional skater and now the speed of the game and his age have caught up to him.  I don't question his desire.  I just don't think his body will do what his mind wants it to do.  I don't know what to do with him.  His recent years were wasted here with an ill-fated "retooling" and a coach who had no clue.  Feel bad for Claude.  Maybe he can do what Stevie Y did in his later years with the Wings and become more of a two-way or even a defensive player.

 

Voracek is maddening.  He looks great and then looks like ****.  

 

I love Konency.  But, he needs to get his ass out of his head.  But, he's a high risk/high reward player.  You need guys like him.

 

I think this is Couturier's team now.  And, to a degree, Hayes' team.

 

As mentioned, I think Pitlick and also NAK and Laughton had very good showings.  Lindblom also blossomed.

 

Love Provorov and his work ethic.  Sanheim and Myers need to work on some things.  Myers has surpassed Sanheim, imo.  Niskanen had a good regular season, but looked gassed in the PO rounds.  Same with Braun, though I thought Braun had some poor games in the regular season too.  Hagg is decent for a 6th d-man.

 

Really think Fletcher has work cut out for him.  He needs to free up cap space to fix the bottom 6 and to add some scoring punch.  Have to rid ourselves of JVR and Ghost.  Fletcher talked about being active in the trade market.  If so, he's probably going to have to part with picks and prospects as well to get anything back that isn't just someone else's disappointing player.

 

At least he doesn't need a goaltender.  Great season for Hart and he's probably the brightest spot on the ice.  Would bring back Elliot as well.

our bottom 6 has to be cheaper players and top 6 has to be fixed, not to mention our top 4 has to be upgraded as well, it's going to take alot to improve this roster.

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1 hour ago, tucson83 said:

our bottom 6 has to be cheaper players and top 6 has to be fixed, not to mention our top 4 has to be upgraded as well, it's going to take alot to improve this roster.

Agree.  Cheaper in the aggregate and hungrier in the bottom 6.  Top 6 needs another scorer.  They need another solid dman because I’d let Braun walk.  

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13 hours ago, vis said:

Agree.  Cheaper in the aggregate and hungrier in the bottom 6.  Top 6 needs another scorer.  They need another solid dman because I’d let Braun walk.  

 

yup and every line needs an impact player with younger cheaper players around them.

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17 hours ago, vis said:

Adding to the post-mortem of a season I ended up following closely, but not posting much about.

 

Overall, a very good first year for AV/Fletcher. 

 

It's nice to see what an excellent coaching staff can accomplish.  That said, he had some down moments in the POs.  He had no answer for Trotz, but I wonder if that was more of a player execution thing.  I know he's not responsible directly for the PP, but it's poor PO performance reflects on AV.  Also, no one should allow him to challenge a play.   

 

Hayes and Pitlick, two signings for which Fletcher received some criticism, were great additions to the team.  But, I question the wisdom of acquiring Thompson and Grant.  They contributed nothing, particularly in the POs.  I generally agree with the notion that some of the younger guys like Frost may not have been NHL ready (or at least were better served playing quality minutes in the AHL) and so I think it was better that they served time in the AHL.  But, Thompson and Grant can't play in the league (or at least on this team).  The speed and compete level of the game have passed them by.  Maybe they were the only options in the market.  I don't know.

 

It's a shame, but Giroux is not a top line player.  His best years are in the past.  He was never an exceptional skater and now the speed of the game and his age have caught up to him.  I don't question his desire.  I just don't think his body will do what his mind wants it to do.  I don't know what to do with him.  His recent years were wasted here with an ill-fated "retooling" and a coach who had no clue.  Feel bad for Claude.  Maybe he can do what Stevie Y did in his later years with the Wings and become more of a two-way or even a defensive player.

 

Voracek is maddening.  He looks great and then looks like ****.  

 

I love Konency.  But, he needs to get his ass out of his head.  But, he's a high risk/high reward player.  You need guys like him.

 

I think this is Couturier's team now.  And, to a degree, Hayes' team.

 

As mentioned, I think Pitlick and also NAK and Laughton had very good showings.  Lindblom also blossomed.

 

Love Provorov and his work ethic.  Sanheim and Myers need to work on some things.  Myers has surpassed Sanheim, imo.  Niskanen had a good regular season, but looked gassed in the PO rounds.  Same with Braun, though I thought Braun had some poor games in the regular season too.  Hagg is decent for a 6th d-man.

 

Really think Fletcher has work cut out for him.  He needs to free up cap space to fix the bottom 6 and to add some scoring punch.  Have to rid ourselves of JVR and Ghost.  Fletcher talked about being active in the trade market.  If so, he's probably going to have to part with picks and prospects as well to get anything back that isn't just someone else's disappointing player.

 

At least he doesn't need a goaltender.  Great season for Hart and he's probably the brightest spot on the ice.  Would bring back Elliot as well.

Fletcher will have to be active to free up cap space. It's too bad that AV didn't sit Giroux for a game and bring in Frost just to see how he would do considering Giroux wasn't doing much. Provorov, Sanheim and Myers will get better with experience, it's nice to see that the Flyers finally have a goalie in Hart and hopefully they find him a quality backup (maybe Elliot for another year). Hayes was a pleasant surprise but hopefully lives up to his contract. The playoff experience will be good for the young players. Stay the course, give the younger players more important roles and put Giroux in a secondary role for the remainder of his contract and don't resign him.

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10 hours ago, Lindbergh31 said:

Fletcher will have to be active to free up cap space.

Yep.  He said he would be looking at the trade market primarily.  But I don't think they'd get helpful players back via trade for the likes of JVR and Ghost.  They would have to trade more than that to get a helpful player, I think.  That said, could see them trading JVR and Ghost to free up cap to go after UFAs.  Tough market to become a UFA given the flat cap.

 

10 hours ago, Lindbergh31 said:

Fletcher will have to be active to free up cap space.

I would have experimented with sitting Thompson or Grant and maybe shuffling lines on top of it to get more scoring punch across the lineup.

 

10 hours ago, Lindbergh31 said:

Provorov, Sanheim and Myers will get better with experience, it's nice to see that the Flyers finally have a goalie in Hart and hopefully they find him a quality backup (maybe Elliot for another year). Hayes was a pleasant surprise but hopefully lives up to his contract.

Myers was more physical than I thought he'd be in the POs.  Think he's better overall than Sanheim, but Sanheim can make some plays.  I would re-sign Elliot.

 

10 hours ago, Lindbergh31 said:

The playoff experience will be good for the young players. Stay the course, give the younger players more important roles and put Giroux in a secondary role for the remainder of his contract and don't resign him.

Yeah, glad the younger guys got a taste.  I would like to see Farabee take a bigger role next year.  I think he's Couturier-lite in the making.

 

Edited by vis

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9 hours ago, vis said:

Yep.  He said he would be looking at the trade market primarily.  But I don't think they'd get helpful players back via trade for the likes of JVR and Ghost. 

I disagree with the "Ghost has little value" thought.

When he is healthy he can be a dynamic game changing player at best, at his worst he can pass to opposing forecheckers in the slot. The latter can be coached up to be minimized- the former cannot be taught.

I think the right situation/hockey trade with Ghost could be beneficial to two teams. 

 

I agree that moving JvR will be harder, but again in the right situation he can get 30 goals-that's not nothing. 

I don't see those players as boat anchors (JvR's contract is not good) or even bad players, they're just not the right fit here. 

Edited by mojo1917

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15 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I disagree with the "Ghost has little value" thought.

When he is healthy he can be a dynamic game changing player at best, at his worst he can pass to opposing forecheckers in the slot. The latter can be coached up to be minimized- the former cannot be taught.

I think the right situation/hockey trade with Ghost could be beneficial to two teams. 

 

I agree that moving JvR will be harder, but again in the right situation he can get 30 goals-that's not nothing. 

I don't see those players as boat anchors (JvR's contract is not good) or even bad players, they're just not the right fit here. 

 

I have pretty much accepted JVR is going nowhere.

 

They will keep him because noone will want him at the price on his contract and two they are hoping he will come around and provide the scoring which they lack.

 

Ghost however is on borrowed time I'm afraid.

 

For the tight cap reasons alone he will be moved i expect at or around the draft.

 

They simply can't continue to play for a defenseman the coaching staff just doesn't trust. And that is two different coaching staff who seem to feel the same way.

 

Makes me wonder if it's something they are seeing they don't like during practices or something because during the game I see stuff that may be coached up.

 

But what do I know either way I can see them moving him off somewhere maybe Flyer West or at least to the other conference I hope I would hate for him to haunt them till he retires.

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6 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

When he is healthy he can be a dynamic game changing player at best, at his worst he can pass to opposing forecheckers in the slot. The latter can be coached up to be minimized- the former cannot be taught.

I think the right situation/hockey trade with Ghost could be beneficial to two teams. 

I don't know.  I imagine several coaches now have tried to "coach him up" and the same mistakes still rear their ugly heads.  Moreover, he seems to have forgotten how to be a dynamic, game changing player.  When he came on the scene, he was a bit of a breath of fresh air.  Now, guys like him are fairly common around the league - and they are younger and better at what he does.  Still, there is a premium market for "puck-moving" d-men so maybe he does have more value than I give him credit for.  

 

6 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I agree that moving JvR will be harder, but again in the right situation he can get 30 goals-that's not nothing. 

I don't see those players as boat anchors (JvR's contract is not good) or even bad players, they're just not the right fit here. 

He can score when applying himself, but he's a one dimensional player who lacks speed and tenacity and can be easily negated by opposing teams.  He is simply not worth his contract.  I think there are few teams around the league where he'd be a "good" fit.  And, of those, I'm not sure any of them want to or can afford his contract.

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@vis

Last thought on JvR. 

We see these guys all the time so we see the bad and some cases look for it. 

I haven't been a huge fan of the signing. I was whelmed the first go-round and slightly under whelmed this time.

However, he has been injured both years. Started the first year with that blown up knee from blocking a shot and broke his hand this year.

I have seen on the internet where as a play driver for the team only Sean Couturier is better 5 v 5 than JvR (charlie o'connor) last year, until he broke said hand.

Perhaps, and this is a reach, there are some more analytically inclined GMs  who look  at his 5 v 5 play driving numbers and think they can use the goals and possession. 

Bottom line, I don't think these two particular players are garbage, I don't think the Flyers should have to eat a load of salary should a hockey deal be made. I don't view them as boat anchors in every line up , they just don't work super well in ours.

 

 

Edited by mojo1917

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On 9/13/2020 at 9:50 PM, mojo1917 said:

Shame, he was a big  reason the team was watchable for the last 5 years, carried the team during that time.  

 

See, it was that same five year period that saw the Flyers go from "appointment television" (or even Partial Season Ticket Holder) to "yeah, maybe I'll watch it - oh, wait Chopped is on?"

 

For me.

 

YMMV.

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I have never been a fan, mostly because I expected something special when he was drafted 2nd overall. In the time Ive watched him, I just dont see anything to like. He seems lazy and uninspired. Thats the eye test, and its good enough for me, cause im just a fan

 

In his first stint in philly, he only scored 20 goals once, and never more than 4 pp goals. They ship him to TOR and he tears it up. My thought was, he just cant handle being a Flyer. Thats an opinion I still have.

 

In this second stint, he scored 27 and 19 goals. Two seasons ago he scored 8 pp goals. That really doesnt look bad on paper. Im wondering if some GM might look at him, and factor injuries, and conclude he needs a change of scenery. 

 

Personally, I think he ends up in Seattle where he will play really well, sealing my permanent hatred of him

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1 minute ago, radoran said:

 

See, it was that same five year period that saw the Flyers go from "appointment television" (or even Partial Season Ticket Holder) to "yeah, maybe I'll watch it - oh, wait Chopped is on?"

 

For me.

 

YMMV.

well said

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On 9/14/2020 at 6:56 PM, vis said:

Overall, a very good first year for AV/Fletcher. 

 

It's nice to see what an excellent coaching staff can accomplish. 

 

This.

 

On 9/14/2020 at 6:56 PM, vis said:

Hayes and Pitlick, two signings for which Fletcher received some criticism, were great additions to the team. 

 

I was a critic of Hayes, but he did pass the eye test. His production was among the lowest for players at his pay grade, but he did positively impact the team.

 

I wasn't really worried about this year, but rather the years to come.

 

Plus, he was a Rag...

 

:5a6425fa25331_VikingSkoool:

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40 minutes ago, radoran said:

I was a critic of Hayes, but he did pass the eye test. His production was among the lowest for players at his pay grade, but he did positively impact the team.

 

I wasn't really worried about this year, but rather the years to come.

 

Plus, he was a Rag...

He was decent, if still overpaid in his first, year.  I can't wait for all the posts wanting to get rid of him in another year or two.

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18 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

He was decent, if still overpaid in his first, year.  I can't wait for all the posts wanting to get rid of him in another year or two.

 

Of players 25+, making $6.5+ he was 15th of 19 in Points and 16th in Points Per Game.

 

Again, I liked the eye test and thought he was a valuable addition.

 

If, say, Patrick pans out and Hayes can be a solid 3C his $7.1 in the last three years might not turn out to be a bad deal.

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On 9/16/2020 at 9:15 AM, mojo1917 said:

I disagree with the "Ghost has little value" thought.

When he is healthy he can be a dynamic game changing player at best, at his worst he can pass to opposing forecheckers in the slot. The latter can be coached up to be minimized- the former cannot be taught.

I think the right situation/hockey trade with Ghost could be beneficial to two teams. 

 

 

Ghost definitely has value.  There are not that many defensemen are around with his skating ability and blistering point shot. He has a reasonable contract . He had knee  surgery and that definitely hindered his game , he still has speed and a great shot, but no confidence. Sure he is a defensive liability,  but his real value is on the PP. If he is used correctly and teamed with the right personnel, he will be a factor. 

 

 True, Ghost didnt help our PP but we have to realize that the Flyers PP is pathetic, and so predictable, with G on the left trying the same old lame pass to the crease that gets blocked. Have you ever seen a PP with such lack of creativity, telegraphed, predictable ,slow and  inaccurate passing  and so few shots taken?You cant judge Ghost  by our failed PP, we could have put Bobby Orr on that PP , he wouldn't score either. Ghost can get us a good return. 

Edited by RonJeremy
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