CoachX Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 44 minutes ago, radoran said: Of players 25+, making $6.5+ he was 15th of 19 in Points and 16th in Points Per Game. Again, I liked the eye test and thought he was a valuable addition. If, say, Patrick pans out and Hayes can be a solid 3C his $7.1 in the last three years might not turn out to be a bad deal. IMO Hayes earned his money more than TK, G, or V He showed up every night and played hard. Some of his numbers could be low due to lackluster performance from linemates 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, radoran said: See, it was that same five year period that saw the Flyers go from "appointment television" (or even Partial Season Ticket Holder) to "yeah, maybe I'll watch it - oh, wait Chopped is on?" For me. YMMV. I understand this. I don't disagree, I will say... The team was objectively bad during this time. He was not the GM. I remember talking myself into, maybe This Boyd Gordon is going to give us some quality minutes- knowing the answer. There would have been zero playoffs, and absolutely zero reason to watch but for him. Maybe that would have been better? Higher draft position and all... Edited September 17, 2020 by mojo1917 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, mojo1917 said: He was not the GM. He certainly wasn't. And I'm not entirely "blaming" Claude for this situation. It's more that watching good players on bad teams just isn't all that interesting for me. That said, there is the little matter of four goals in 35 playoff games over eight years comprising the worst stretch of hockey in franchise history. Eight years to win one playoff round*. The upshot of which is that I've at least see some interesting things done with geoduck clams. And I don't even like clams. * I won't even put an asterisk on it. Oh, wait... Edited September 17, 2020 by radoran 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 9 hours ago, mojo1917 said: Perhaps, and this is a reach, there are some more analytically inclined GMs who look at his 5 v 5 play driving numbers and think they can use the goals and possession. I never would have guessed that stat. One of the cases where the eye test doesn't marry up with the stats. Well, there were parts of the season where he was playing pretty well. But I don't think of him as a player who drives play. 9 hours ago, mojo1917 said: Bottom line, I don't think these two particular players are garbage, I don't think the Flyers should have to eat a load of salary should a hockey deal be made. I don't view them as boat anchors in every line up , they just don't work super well in ours. I think we might be trading our boat anchors for another team's. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 7 hours ago, radoran said: I was a critic of Hayes, but he did pass the eye test. His production was among the lowest for players at his pay grade, but he did positively impact the team. I wasn't really worried about this year, but rather the years to come. Seems to be a great lockerroom guy, which has benefits off the ice. Thought he was one of the most consistent players at both ends of the rink. Agree about future years...especially with the cap remaining steady for the foreseeable future. 7 hours ago, radoran said: Plus, he was a Rag... LeClair was a Canadien... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 7 hours ago, radoran said: He certainly wasn't. And I'm not entirely "blaming" Claude for this situation. It's more that watching good players on bad teams just isn't all that interesting for me. That said, there is the little matter of four goals in 35 playoff games over eight years comprising the worst stretch of hockey in franchise history. Eight years to win one playoff round*. The upshot of which is that I've at least see some interesting things done with geoduck clams. And I don't even like clams. * I won't even put an asterisk on it. Oh, wait... Again. Bad teams. Clams are objectively great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 13 hours ago, vis said: Seems to be a great lockerroom guy, which has benefits off the ice. Thought he was one of the most consistent players at both ends of the rink. Agree about future years...especially with the cap remaining steady for the foreseeable future. No argument. 13 hours ago, vis said: LeClair was a Canadien... He was a Catamount first 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 9 hours ago, mojo1917 said: Again. Bad teams. "Definitely playoff teams" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, radoran said: "Definitely playoff teams" this again ? What's the guy supposed to say? "Yeah, ol' Dale he should really be working at his ma's brake shop in Guelph, but he's playing 15 minutes a night here so you know, we'll be lucky to be .500 ". I don't disagree with; he was too young, never a captain, should have been Timmonen. Those are all good points. He didn't make himself captain, He didn't say he's "the best player in the world", some how all this garbage gets brought up like it's some kind of character flaw. and it's ********. good to see you around the site again. Edited September 18, 2020 by mojo1917 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, mojo1917 said: this again ? What's the guy supposed to say? It's not just him - it was the entire organization. And the quote was a reaction to the declaration about "bad teams." Yes, they were bad teams. Yes, he's supposed to say "we have to work hard to get there" not "we are definitely there." When they clearly weren't. But that's the entire corporate culture of the organization that has increasingly turned me off. There's a sense of entitlement that alienates me. It's not "the grass is greener" - it's "you agree this is the best grass ever in the history of grass, right?" When, in fact, we're watching this: I want to root for the crest on the front, not the names on the back or the names on the letterhead. Don't piss on my head and tell me it's a sunny day and why am I complaining about the rain? 1 hour ago, mojo1917 said: He didn't make himself captain, He didn't say he's "the best player in the world", some how all this garbage gets brought up like it's some kind of character flaw. and it's ********. Just for the record, I don't bring those things up as if it is some sort of character flaw of Claude's. I agree with you, that sort of stuff is garbage in that context. There is the flip side of that where people bend over backwards to say he's not at all any part of "the problem." I don't blame him for being captain. I just don't think he's been particularly good at it. Again, I look at production which is often terrific in the regular season (although not always) but has failed miserably in the postseason. And in this most recent appearance by the team's own admission they folded tents and went home after things didn't go exactly their way ten minutes into a Game 7. He was never "the best player in the world" - he's a guy who has trouble cracking the top 12 on Canada's team. Yet he's the guy that the organization insisted was a #1 C (despite never playing the position prior to the NHL) and insisted was the heart and soul of the team (despite never being a captain before) that they absolutely had to build the entire thing around. And we got one playoff round win in eight years. I just think I kinda have the right to be disappointed. To me, it reflects the nature of how the team has been run. Quite frankly, if there's one person I would like to see completely exiled from the Flyers, it's Paul Holmgren. 1 hour ago, mojo1917 said: good to see you around the site again. Thanks. Took some time off with the 'rona. Wanted to get some space. Needed it. Also figured I'd said my point about the "playoffs" and didn't need to rehash it. Good talking with you, as always. Edited September 18, 2020 by radoran 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 solid post. thanks saved me from having to respond 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 In terms of moving Ghost, the issue will be whether his knees are 100%. So, 2018 - 2019 offseason he was recuperating from knee surgery only to have another surgery in 2019 - 2020. Clearly there's a problem with his knees that he simply needs time off to heal and heal fully. A healthy Gostisbehere is a difference maker and I think the coaching staff realizes that. Everyone knows what he's capable of. He's not being handled by Therien either as Yeo looks after the defense. Yeo also has a good track record working with defensemen, so I'm not worried about that. Everything with Ghost seems to be health and head. One solid year of health and just letting the play come to him will be all what he needs. Let's not forget that Hakstol and company tried to fundamentally change the type of defensemen he was and they broke him. It's going to take time to fix him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 (edited) 21 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: Everything with Ghost seems to be health and head. One solid year of health and just letting the play come to him will be all what he needs. Let's not forget that Hakstol and company tried to fundamentally change the type of defensemen he was and they broke him. It's going to take time to fix him. Obviously health has been an issue. That said, his first breakout year in the league he shot 11.2% and had 22 of 46 points on the power play. Then he shot 3.5%, 5.9%, 5%, 6.8%. His career is 6.2% and that may just accurately reflect what he levels out at. That said, even "broken" under Hackstol, he scored 65 points in 17-18 with 33 of them on the power play. For his career 49% of his points (97 of 199) have come with the extra man. To say nothing of his 3-on-3 regular season OT play (which obviously doesn't translate to the postseason). The Flyers often go four forwards and Provorov on the first unit. If he's not going to get the power play time he's gotten in the past here, he's not likely to put up the sort of points we may have come to expect. That could make him a valuable trade asset for a team looking for a PP specialist. The Flyers have a boatload of talented young offensive-minded defensemen working their way through the system and Gotstobehere just could be odd man out. And that could be good for both the organization and the player. His knees clearly haven't helped the situation and getting back to full strength should be more of a concern than just trying to get back into the lineup. IMO, too often players push to come back from injury "to help the team" while, in fact, hindering both the team and their own health (I'm looking at you Wayne Simmonds - among others). I'm not at all pushing him out the door - and I'm not looking to "sell low." But he might be a featured display in the shop window. Edited September 25, 2020 by radoran 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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