Are Flyer Players Actually Happy?

[CoachX]

Pietrangelo goes to LV. They are instantly better. Hall goes to Buffalo with Eichel. They are better. Someone will trade for Laine and be better. Smith to Boston, Taffoli to MTL, etc., etc. And the Flyers sign Ghost 2.0.

 

The likely response on this forum will be extensive opinions of how expensive these FA were, how teams overpaid and how certain players would be loathed because of their style of play. There will also be in depth analysis of how the team is better off and that the future is bright with young talent (2 years from 2 years, yada-yada). But, Im pretty sure we can all agree, the Flyers aren't legit contenders, and will most likely not win a Stanley Cup this year, or with this current line up.

 

We always talk about how players love it here. For all I know, they do. It seems like it, based on how many get employed by the Flyers after they retire. But none of them, except those few remaining legends, have ever won a cup here. We brutally rip Giroux, JVR and Jake (for me NAK and Laughton) and want them run out of town. But what if those guys, after seeing what moves the Flyers make, a wish they were run out of town? There's always talk about the cap and long term contracts being dead weight. And more talk about how we shouldn't pursue those big names, yet the drought continues. JVR seemed happier in TOR, and his numbers were great. What if he wants out, and his play here reflects that? Maybe Giroux has had enough of the coaching carousel and poor management, and he is just playing for a check? How would we even know? Its not any Flyer player will go public and bash the organization

 

All I really know, is I hate watching teams signing that big name, and watching him help his team advance, while the Flyers pass, and end talking about a future that never arrives

 

[Podein25]

37 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Pietrangelo goes to LV. They are instantly better. Hall goes to Buffalo with Eichel. They are better. Someone will trade for Laine and be better. Smith to Boston, Taffoli to MTL, etc., etc. And the Flyers sign Ghost 2.0.

 

The likely response on this forum will be extensive opinions of how expensive these FA were, how teams overpaid and how certain players would be loathed because of their style of play. There will also be in depth analysis of how the team is better off and that the future is bright with young talent (2 years from 2 years, yada-yada). But, Im pretty sure we can all agree, the Flyers aren't legit contenders, and will most likely not win a Stanley Cup this year, or with this current line up.

 

We always talk about how players love it here. For all I know, they do. It seems like it, based on how many get employed by the Flyers after they retire. But none of them, except those few remaining legends, have ever won a cup here. We brutally rip Giroux, JVR and Jake (for me NAK and Laughton) and want them run out of town. But what if those guys, after seeing what moves the Flyers make, a wish they were run out of town? There's always talk about the cap and long term contracts being dead weight. And more talk about how we shouldn't pursue those big names, yet the drought continues. JVR seemed happier in TOR, and his numbers were great. What if he wants out, and his play here reflects that? Maybe Giroux has had enough of the coaching carousel and poor management, and he is just playing for a check? How would we even know? Its not any Flyer player will go public and bash the organization

 

All I really know, is I hate watching teams signing that big name, and watching him help his team advance, while the Flyers pass, and end talking about a future that never arrives

 

 

Meh.

 

I don't mind Fletch bargain hunting for good value propositions. He's made two errors so far: re-signing Braun and letting Pitlick go. And both of those I can live with given rationale at play. Disagree? Fight me!

[mojo1917]

@CoachX

It is frustrating especially after all those years where the Flyers were "in" on everyone.

I think it is an interesting question that will never be answered in real time by an actual player. 

 

There are a couple of other things at play with these guys that make it free agency that I think is worth discussing.

The first is moolah !

States with zero state tax, Nevada, Florida, Texas...those places money goes further. The teams are in nice/fun/ areas where there's a lot to do and the weather is mostly warm. 

Second is the Flyers haven't been the best team in the state for the last 10 years, I think a reason the Flyers were a destination for FA players was they were often a successful team capable of playing for a championship most years. That hasn't been the jawn around here for a long-ass time. 

Third I don't think everyone is down with the "Philly fan base", the reputation of the fans is, not great?, Unfairly maligned or not, every ****** ass-wipe has heard of the Santa ********. You and I know that Santa was lucky he lived through the day- the **** . The passion and expectations of the fans maybe isn't appreciated by all. I think that might be intimidating to some guys.

With Nate Schmidt, do we know if the Flyers were one of his 10 no trade teams?

Was AP always looking for strippers and Blue man group shows?

There are more things at play these days  than just - the Flyers are usually good and have money I'll think I'll go there- 

 

[Podein25]

1 minute ago, mojo1917 said:

@CoachX

It is frustrating especially after all those years where the Flyers were "in" on everyone.

I think it is an interesting question that will never be answered in real time by an actual player. 

 

There are a couple of other things at play with these guys that make it free agency that I think is worth discussing.

The first is moolah !

States with zero state tax, Nevada, Florida, Texas...those places money goes further. The teams are in nice/fun/ areas where there's a lot to do and the weather is mostly warm. 

Second is the Flyers haven't been the best team in the state for the last 10 years, I think a reason the Flyers were a destination for FA players was they were often a successful team capable of playing for a championship most years. That hasn't been the jawn around here for a long-ass time. 

Third I don't think everyone is down with the "Philly fan base", the reputation of the fans is, not great?, Unfairly maligned or not, every ****** ass-wipe has heard of the Santa ********. You and I know that Santa was lucky he lived through the day- the **** . The passion and expectations of the fans maybe isn't appreciated by all. I think that might be intimidating to some guys.

With Nate Schmidt, do we know if the Flyers were one of his 10 no trade teams?

Was AP always looking for strippers and Blue man group shows?

There are more things at play these days  than just - the Flyers are usually good and have money I'll think I'll go there- 

 

 

Evergreen tweet bro

[FD19372]

56 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Pietrangelo goes to LV. They are instantly better. Hall goes to Buffalo with Eichel. They are better. Someone will trade for Laine and be better. Smith to Boston, Taffoli to MTL, etc., etc. And the Flyers sign Ghost 2.0.

 

The likely response on this forum will be extensive opinions of how expensive these FA were, how teams overpaid and how certain players would be loathed because of their style of play. There will also be in depth analysis of how the team is better off and that the future is bright with young talent (2 years from 2 years, yada-yada). But, Im pretty sure we can all agree, the Flyers aren't legit contenders, and will most likely not win a Stanley Cup this year, or with this current line up.

 

We always talk about how players love it here. For all I know, they do. It seems like it, based on how many get employed by the Flyers after they retire. But none of them, except those few remaining legends, have ever won a cup here. We brutally rip Giroux, JVR and Jake (for me NAK and Laughton) and want them run out of town. But what if those guys, after seeing what moves the Flyers make, a wish they were run out of town? There's always talk about the cap and long term contracts being dead weight. And more talk about how we shouldn't pursue those big names, yet the drought continues. JVR seemed happier in TOR, and his numbers were great. What if he wants out, and his play here reflects that? Maybe Giroux has had enough of the coaching carousel and poor management, and he is just playing for a check? How would we even know? Its not any Flyer player will go public and bash the organization

 

All I really know, is I hate watching teams signing that big name, and watching him help his team advance, while the Flyers pass, and end talking about a future that never arrives

 

The Santa thing happened a long time ago, and the Flyers were successful at signing free agents for a long time after that. So, that isn't a valid thing. These players weren't even born yet. Maybe they don't like the people running the organization. That would be valid. For example, maybe they see that two players, G and Jake, on this team are making a ton of guaranteed money, and based on the last few seasons...are stealing it. They were GROSSLY overpaid.

Edited October 13, 2020 by FD19372

[Podein25]

3 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

The Santa thing happened a long time ago

 

Are you saying Santa forgets?

 

Santa never forgets. He may forgive, but he never forgets.

[mojo1917]

17 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

The Santa thing happened a long time ago, and the Flyers were successful at signing free agents for a long time after that. So, that isn't a valid thing.

 

you know this, I know this, how come every goddamned season I have to see some ass-face talking about it at least once per professional sports season?

It is absolutely still a thing. 

 

You may be on to something about not liking the management.

I think the top tier comcast guys are douche nozzels, Dave Scott is no daisy and Josh Harris the Sixers guy ( he might not be a comcast guy anymore)  is a terrible human person. 

 

With regard to guys getting paid and then not winning, you'd think Taylor Hall  would be all over that, just sayin. 

 

 

[mojo1917]

25 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

For example, maybe they see that two players, G and Jake, on this team are making a ton of guaranteed money, and based on the last few seasons...are stealing it. They were GROSSLY overpaid.

really ?

I don't think this is accurate, your take does reflect the poor performance by Giroux in this year's playoffs.

 

102 pts, 85 pts and 53 in 69 games is good production. That's not "stealing money" by any stretch.

If not for Voracek the team would have left the bubble after the Mtl series.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RonJeremy]

2 hours ago, CoachX said:

Pietrangelo goes to LV. They are instantly better. Hall goes to Buffalo with Eichel. They are better. Someone will trade for Laine and be better. Smith to Boston, Taffoli to MTL, etc., etc. And the Flyers sign Ghost 2.0.

 

The likely response on this forum will be extensive opinions of how expensive these FA were, how teams overpaid and how certain players would be loathed because of their style of play. There will also be in depth analysis of how the team is better off and that the future is bright with young talent (2 years from 2 years, yada-yada). But, Im pretty sure we can all agree, the Flyers aren't legit contenders, and will most likely not win a Stanley Cup this year, or with this current line up.

 

We always talk about how players love it here. For all I know, they do. It seems like it, based on how many get employed by the Flyers after they retire. But none of them, except those few remaining legends, have ever won a cup here. We brutally rip Giroux, JVR and Jake (for me NAK and Laughton) and want them run out of town. But what if those guys, after seeing what moves the Flyers make, a wish they were run out of town? There's always talk about the cap and long term contracts being dead weight. And more talk about how we shouldn't pursue those big names, yet the drought continues. JVR seemed happier in TOR, and his numbers were great. What if he wants out, and his play here reflects that? Maybe Giroux has had enough of the coaching carousel and poor management, and he is just playing for a check? How would we even know? Its not any Flyer player will go public and bash the organization

 

All I really know, is I hate watching teams signing that big name, and watching him help his team advance, while the Flyers pass, and end talking about a future that never arrives

 

Lets face it, Philly is not exactly on anyones top destinations list.  In the better days Philly was a team with a winning reputation and known for taking care of their players. The team has been mediocre for years, Snider is gone and if you haven't noticed,  very few free agents and even the college free agents, did not have the Flyers on their list. Not many players want to sign here and raise their kids in a crime ridden overtaxed ********, which is what most of the Northeast is now. As someone else mentioned players are signing in States with low taxes and a much better standard of living.

[CoachX]

The points about other locations was something I hadn't considered. What a great perspective. Im going to assume that true, it just makes sense. That being said, you have to believe the flyer organization knows it too. That means un order to compete, and bring in talent, you are going to have to dig deep

[mojo1917]

4 minutes ago, CoachX said:

The points about other locations was something I hadn't considered. What a great perspective. Im going to assume that true, it just makes sense. That being said, you have to believe the flyer organization knows it too. That means un order to compete, and bring in talent, you are going to have to dig deep

You have a point about this- the offers from teams that don't have those advantages must be "better" offers. 

I definitely think that's why Hayes contract is as long and for as much as it is.

I wonder if the Flyers included a NMC if Brodie would have considered it? 

With the cap being flat, his age and the expansion draft there were a lot of things in play.

For me, 36 year old TJ Brodie Willie Mays-ing around our D-zone While Travis Sanhiem wins the Norris and multiple championships...somewhere else isn't appealing. I'm already steeling my self against the reality of G's play dropping off (hopefully not a cliff) for the next 2 years. 

People aren't taking a pay cut to play with Sean Couturier they way they did Crosby that's for sure. 

 

[tucson83]

it's all about the talent and the way you get it, example in 2007 when this team was bad, homer turned it around by trading for talent hartnell, timms, coburn, biron, upshall, lupul and jason smith which made briere sign with us.  i know we didnt win the stanley cup with that team, the point is we traded for talent which brought in talent. the giroux and jake signings is the reason why no big players wanted to come here. if gioux and jake were traded for better talent instead of signing them to worthless contracts we probably would have attracted big names.

[mojo1917]

1 minute ago, tucson83 said:

. if gioux and jake were traded for better talent instead of signing them to worthless contracts we probably would have attracted big names.

I don't know man 8 million a year isn't what I'd call "worthless"

I'll be lucky to make 8 million in my life. 

 

Hextall bought high on Voracek, no question, but at the time he was showing great chemistry with G and Jagr. That was a dominant line in the game. Guys don't always bat .1000 when it comes to projecting what players will do. But at that time Jake and G were the same age and it was not crazy to think they could be part of a winning core as they reached their primes together. 

It didn't happen for a lot of reasons. 

 When G signed his contract I don't remember anyone really bitching about it, because he was playing great and the contract secured his services through his prime. 

G is one year removed from being a point per game player for the year, he didn't have the best year this year and everyone has documented his poor play in the playoffs.  I would say the Flyers got great value out of Giroux's contract and good/okay value out of Voracek's. 

 

We can go round about the team not being good for the last 10 years, and agree on many reasons why. I don't think I'm ever going to say it's Giroux or Jake's fault though. 

 

 

 

[tucson83]

13 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I don't know man 8 million a year isn't what I'd call "worthless"

I'll be lucky to make 8 million in my life. 

 

Hextall bought high on Voracek, no question, but at the time he was showing great chemistry with G and Jagr. That was a dominant line in the game. Guys don't always bat .1000 when it comes to projecting what players will do. But at that time Jake and G were the same age and it was not crazy to think they could be part of a winning core as they reached their primes together. 

It didn't happen for a lot of reasons. 

 When G signed his contract I don't remember anyone really bitching about it, because he was playing great and the contract secured his services through his prime. 

G is one year removed from being a point per game player for the year, he didn't have the best year this year and everyone has documented his poor play in the playoffs.  I would say the Flyers got great value out of Giroux's contract and good/okay value out of Voracek's. 

 

We can go round about the team not being good for the last 10 years, and agree on many reasons why. I don't think I'm ever going to say it's Giroux or Jake's fault though. 

 

 

 

ill say this, if giroux and jake were playing like the 2012 version of themselves i think alot of star players would have interest in coming here because they know they have a great chance of winning a cup, the fact they didnt play like stars is the reason why they had no interest in coming here.

 

stars attract stars, not just good players attract stars. 

 

 

[Philly29]

On 10/13/2020 at 3:16 PM, Podein25 said:

He's made two errors so far: re-signing Braun and letting Pitlick go. And both of those I can live with given rationale at play. Disagree? Fight me!

I agree 100%, when I saw that they let Pitlick go I was no doubt annoyed. He played very well, was / is a good serviceable bottom 6 guy and had a good playoffs. I really wish that they would of given him the money and resigned him.

[CoachX]

28 minutes ago, Philly29 said:

I agree 100%, when I saw that they let Pitlick go I was no doubt annoyed. He played very well, was / is a good serviceable bottom 6 guy and had a good playoffs. I really wish that they would of given him the money and resigned him.

Pitlick gone. NAK in.

 

Which do you prefer?

[Podein25]

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

Pitlick gone. NAK in.

 

Which do you prefer?

 

REPORTED!

[flyercanuck]

On 10/13/2020 at 2:36 PM, CoachX said:

Pietrangelo goes to LV. They are instantly better. Hall goes to Buffalo with Eichel. They are better. Someone will trade for Laine and be better. Smith to Boston, Taffoli to MTL, etc., etc. And the Flyers sign Ghost 2.0.

 

 

 Pietrangelo wanted to go to Vegas for whatever reason. Were we going to overpay him as well (Hayes) to force him to sign? How does Hall make anyone better? Every team he plays on wins the lottery. And still sucks. And Buffalo has tried signing anyone and everyone and they still suck. Perfect fit. Laine is so good Winnipeg wants to trade him.Smith is a decent player who's best years are behind him. Toffoli would be ok by me.

 

 The Flyers signed Hayes last year. They signed JVR the year before. Those were two of the top free agents of their class. How many cups have those overpriced FAs won us again? It's rare that one of these big FA signings ever helps a team win a cup. Most just end up being terrible signings. See JVR. And Hayes in the near future.

 

 

On 10/13/2020 at 2:36 PM, CoachX said:

 

 

[SCFlyguy]

On 10/13/2020 at 3:18 PM, mojo1917 said:

It is frustrating especially after all those years where the Flyers were "in" on everyone.

The best part was all those Cups we won.

[SCFlyguy]

On 10/13/2020 at 4:54 PM, RonJeremy said:

Lets face it, Philly is not exactly on anyones top destinations list.  In the better days Philly was a team with a winning reputation and known for taking care of their players. The team has been mediocre for years, Snider is gone and if you haven't noticed,  very few free agents and even the college free agents, did not have the Flyers on their list. Not many players want to sign here and raise their kids in a crime ridden overtaxed ********, which is what most of the Northeast is now. As someone else mentioned players are signing in States with low taxes and a much better standard of living.

I know you hate facts, but here you go:

 

States by Life Expectancy

 

States by Violent Crime Rate

 

Violent Crime by Year 1990-2019

 

[mojo1917]

13 hours ago, Philly29 said:

I agree 100%, when I saw that they let Pitlick go I was no doubt annoyed. He played very well, was / is a good serviceable bottom 6 guy and had a good playoffs. I really wish that they would of given him the money and resigned him.

Yeah me too, I became a fan of his during the season, he's a hard worker and good skater.

 

He wanted over a million a year, the Flyers can get Pitlick's game on an entry level contract, The dude from Sweden- Linus Sandin has better hands. Tanner Lacszynski has the same game, Carson Twarinsky is bigger, Connor  Bunnamen is a big goon also,  those are two big dudes that play in straight lines like Pitlick but have slightly less skill.   That's 4 dudes right off the top of my head that have Pitlick's game and won't cost a million plus aav.

It's not my money but, I think this is where teams need to find value to keep compliant with the salary cap.

 

 

[mojo1917]

3 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

The best part was all those Cups we won.

LOL

 

you get the point though, the off season was exciting because this or that guy was coming to town. There was hope that this guy was going to help the team take the next step.

 

It wasn't a perceived lack of acknowledgement of the team's weaknesses  after a game 7 flame out. Which is a lot of what I'm picking up from many posts here.

 

 

 

Some interesting things are at play here. One- the fans were rightfully jacked about getting smoked in game 7, and want some changes to make sure the Islanders never beat the Flyers again...Two the Front Office is in the midst of "building something" and doesn't want to let that result change the direction of the build. Everything I've read and heard from the FO says they see the issues but think they have players in the system who can address those issues. Three, other teams in the conference and division are perceived to have gotten better via their draft picks and signings. The Flyers draft swung for the fences with guys that have high ceilings but middling floors this year, so there isn't a 19 year old savior going to make things better immediately the way Lafreniere might for the Rangers.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2020 by mojo1917

[OccamsRazor]

15 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

It's not my money but, I think this is where teams need to find value to keep compliant with the salary cap.

 

It's not just the Flyers there are a few teams that aren't making any big adjustments. Some that have had success and are only going with tweaks.

 

Like the Isles. They are letting Griess walk and going with unproven Sorokin to backup Varlamov.

 

They are going with Bellows on the 3rd line LW spot and Wahlstrom on the other side of that line centered by Pageau.

 

Dobson will get a boost on the 3rd pair with Boychuk. So the Flyers seem to be doing close to the same small tweaks.

 

A gamble sure but they are hoping the stoppage and restart had a lot to do with the issues we saw with the older guys like Giroux, Voracek and JVR. And combine that with no being able to move those guys without being bent over i guess i'm good with running it back.

 

I honestly think this team is more of what we seen towards the end of the season as the hottest team in the NHL than what flamed out at the end of the playoff run.

 

And sure Niskanen did throw a monkey wrench in the plan but they have the cap space if things don't work out as planned to make adjustments. We'll just have to sit back and wait and see...

[Podein25]

5 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

There are much nicer places , that are way cheaper, with lower taxes,with better weather, newer infrastructure and less crime and less leftist parasites looking for handouts.

 

Canada has higher taxes, colder weather and an infrastructure deficit, but a record number of Americans want to move here. And immigrants all over the world looking to start a better life for their families have Canada at the top of their list of places to move to. 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2020 by pilldoc

[blocker]

1 hour ago, Podein25 said:

 

Canada has higher taxes, colder weather and an infrastructure deficit, but a record number of Americans want to move here. And immigrants all over the world looking to start a better life for their families have Canada at the top of their list of places to move to. 

 

If you think "leftist parasites" is what put America in the dumpster fire that it's in now,  you are seriously delusional.

Yeah, but ain't Canada where all the cold weather comes from?