Coyotes Renounce Rights to Mitchell Miller

[pilldoc]

As a final example I know of 2 individuals at the hospital I work at who had disciplinary action taken against them because of DUI’s they incurred. So it DOES matter how you act that can affect your current job or future potential job/employer.

[WordsOfWisdom]

1 hour ago, pilldoc said:

then take it up with our legal department 

 

lol 

 

1 hour ago, pilldoc said:

in all seriousness there has to be rules set forth by employers because if not damaging information and misinformation can be released to the public causing a whole host of problems.

 

I would call that a Confidentiality Agreement, and those already exist and have existed for decades. It makes perfect sense for a company to protect its information and its trade secrets. It makes perfect sense that someone can't speak on behalf of the company unless they are a designated representative of that company. 

 

Where I draw the line is when companies try to protect their image by limiting free speech or by trying to control the actions of their workers when they're not at work. The "protecting our image" thing is a ruse. It's just an excuse for more control. The law needs to make it very clear that companies have nothing to do with the personal lives and personal speech of their employees and the law needs to be written such that employers cannot terminate someone for conduct that occurs outside of work. It needs to be one of those things that falls under the clause of "wrongful termination" otherwise there's no limit to how it can be abused by employers. (Give an inch, they take a mile as the saying goes.)

 

Anyway, I think we covered this topic nicely.   

[WordsOfWisdom]

1 hour ago, pilldoc said:

As a final example I know of 2 individuals at the hospital I work at who had disciplinary action taken against them because of DUI’s they incurred. So it DOES matter how you act that can affect your current job or future potential job/employer.

 

Without knowing the details here (assuming it occurred outside work, assuming they're not driving an ambulance, and assuming their DUI didn't land them in jail) then I say that's definitely wrong. 

 

The law hands out punishment. After that, the employer should not even be aware that the employee had a DUI at all. It is not their business. That should be made illegal.   

[Podein25]

48 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

After that, the employer should not even be aware that the employee had a DUI at all. It is not their business. That should be made illegal. 

 

I'm sick and tired of your anti-employer posts.

 

Communist

[pilldoc]

5 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

Without knowing the details here (assuming it occurred outside work, assuming they're not driving an ambulance, and assuming their DUI didn't land them in jail) then I say that's definitely wrong. 

 

The law hands out punishment. After that, the employer should not even be aware that the employee had a DUI at all. It is not their business. That should be made illegal.

 

sorry for delay response back .....

 

From Our Drug Free Workplace Policy ....

 

Self-identification is defined as the voluntary disclosure by an employee of their current drug or alcohol abuse under circumstances where the employee is not currently under suspicion of, or under investigation for, possible violation of this policy.

 

Employees who disclose a drug or alcohol problem after coming under suspicion or investigation for possible violation of this policy will not be considered to have properly self-identified and may be subjected to disciplinary action, up to and including, termination of employment.

 

Employees who self-identify to their supervisor, Human Resources, Employee Health of other ** Health management staff of their current use of alcohol or drugs (or chemical dependency) will be escorted with a supervisor to Employee Health. The employee will be eligible for an approved leave of absence under the terms of the Family and Personal Medical Leave policy. Testing may be required upon the employee’s return to work following receipt of any substance abuse treatment. The employee will also be referred to the Employee Assistance Program (EAP) by the Employee Health Department as a mandatory referral. The EAP will be responsible for notifying the Employee Health Department, within two business days, if the employee complied by requesting an appointment. The Employee Health Department will be notified by the EAP if the employee attends (or does not attend) the scheduled appointment. Failure to agree to the terms of the mandatory EAP referral, will result in immediate termination of employment. Self-identification will not shield an employee from possible disciplinary action for otherwise violating this policy or any other ** Health policy, but will be taken into consideration when determining the appropriate level of disciplinary action.

 

Employee Responsibility

 

1. An employee must notify Human Resources and his/her Manager in writing of his/her conviction for a violation of a criminal drug offense, no later than 5 calendar days after such conviction. 

 

(DUI falls under this condition) In the case I listed above, I know for a fact this was the person's 2nd DUI and carries an automatic 1 yr driver license suspension in the state of PA.  This would greatly impact the person's job as this individual was required to be "on-call" and transportation will be difficult if being called in the middle of the night.

 

2. If applicable, ** Health will assist the employee in locating an appropriate treatment facility and the employee will be offered an approved leave of absence. a. Reporting is required to appropriate licensing agencies. b. Initial and Random testing may be required upon the employee’s return to work following receipt of any substance abuse treatment

 

You may certainly disagree with the above and that is your prerogative, however these policies/Code of Conduct are put in place to protect not only yourself, but the company, and your co-workers and in this case any patients one may or may not interact with or care for.

 

This occurs not only in the Healthcare sector but in many other company's.  Disney, for example,  has some of the strictest Code of Conduct measures put in place dictating what a CM (cast member = employee) may or may not post on social media when they are off the clock.  (Disney actually employs individuals to monitor social media sites to enforce this rule)

i apologize for this topic going down a rabbit hole and getting sidetracked, but it all goes back to the premise on how you handle yourself on a daily basis and that bad behaviors/decisions can potentially affect your future employment.  In this case the tragic story of this potential NHL hockey player.

 

As a personal side bit, I have a personal contract with myself that I will not befriend anyone on FB who is in my department, nor will I post anything about my job at the hospital I work for or the company itself on social media.  It is too easy to get caught up in the drama.  I have seen co-workers in my department get reprimanded for posting inappropriate comments about our department and our employer on their social media accounts.  It simply is not worth it.

 

I appreciate your open mindedness and your willingness to interact and ask questions.  

 

Edited November 1, 2020 by pilldoc

[WordsOfWisdom]

9 hours ago, Podein25 said:

I'm sick and tired of your anti-employer posts.

 

It's not "anti-employer".  It's about personal rights and freedoms, especially the right to privacy and the clear separation between work life and personal life. It's about limiting the power of the employer to the workplace because the alternative is giving up control of your life.

 

The situations we are seeing today are unprecedented.  This is a direct result of the impact of social media and the ability to make anything go "viral". Employers now have access to information they never previously had. They can pry into the personal lives of employees in a manner which would have been impossible even 15-20 years ago. It's a loophole that needs to be closed.

 

Where does someone draw the line? Which infractions are bad enough for the team to release someone? Does it depend on nothing other than whether or not the story trends on social media?

 

Why have a justice system at all then? Seems to me that you're happy with employers taking care of criminal matters instead of courts.

 

9 hours ago, Podein25 said:

Communist

 

LOL. Perhaps the most pitiful insult ever. A communist would be in favour of the government running their life. That's even worse!

 

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

6 hours ago, pilldoc said:

sorry for delay response back .....

 

No problem.  I keep busy!   

 

6 hours ago, pilldoc said:

1. An employee must notify Human Resources and his/her Manager in writing of his/her conviction for a violation of a criminal drug offense, no later than 5 calendar days after such conviction. 

 

I don't deny that these clauses exist today. My argument is simply that they shouldn't be allowed to. What happens to employees outside of working hours is none of the company's business. If an employee gets arrested for drugs, thrown in jail, and can't show up to work, only then would an employer be allowed to fire them in my view. Simple as that.  

 

6 hours ago, pilldoc said:

2. If applicable, ** Health will assist the employee in locating an appropriate treatment facility and the employee will be offered an approved leave of absence. a. Reporting is required to appropriate licensing agencies. b. Initial and Random testing may be required upon the employee’s return to work following receipt of any substance abuse treatment

 

All major league violations of human rights and freedoms. In no way and on no planet should an employer be allowed to force someone into rehab, force the center to give them reports on their progress, and make them submit to random testing. Absolutely not.

 

Drug users are punished by the legal system and the employer should have no knowledge of their conviction, no knowledge of their current rehabilitation status, and should not be allowed to test them for anything. 

 

6 hours ago, pilldoc said:

Disney, for example,  has some of the strictest Code of Conduct measures put in place dictating what a CM (cast member = employee) may or may not post on social media when they are off the clock.  (Disney actually employs individuals to monitor social media sites to enforce this rule)

 

Again my opinions is that when the employee is off the clock, they can post whenever and wherever they want to, on any social media site they want to, without any restrictions. (Other than giving away trade secrets or pretending to speak on behalf of the company as discussed previously.) The employer is not allowed by law to restrict the behaviour of employees outside of working hours. 

 

6 hours ago, pilldoc said:

I appreciate your open mindedness and your willingness to interact and ask questions.  

 

 

Thanks.  I know it's a touchy subject, and I know the guy in this latest story was a dirt bag of a teen, but the point I'm trying to make is that they won't be dirt bags in the future. They're going to be normal people like you and me who simply say something "unpopular" or "controversial" and that will be enough to invoke the same kind of punishment. It's essentially "China-law" applied to employment. We are allowing employers to be dictators in our lives and nobody is pushing back against an increasingly invasive set of restrictions due to employers getting more and more bold.

 

 

[Podein25]

On 11/1/2020 at 6:01 PM, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

It's not "anti-employer".  It's about personal rights and freedoms, especially the right to privacy and the clear separation between work life and personal life. It's about limiting the power of the employer to the workplace because the alternative is giving up control of your life.

 

The situations we are seeing today are unprecedented.  This is a direct result of the impact of social media and the ability to make anything go "viral". Employers now have access to information they never previously had. They can pry into the personal lives of employees in a manner which would have been impossible even 15-20 years ago. It's a loophole that needs to be closed.

 

Where does someone draw the line? Which infractions are bad enough for the team to release someone? Does it depend on nothing other than whether or not the story trends on social media?

 

Why have a justice system at all then? Seems to me that you're happy with employers taking care of criminal matters instead of courts.

 

 

LOL. Perhaps the most pitiful insult ever. A communist would be in favour of the government running their life. That's even worse!

 

 

 

It was all a joke lol. 

[WordsOfWisdom]

44 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

It was all a joke lol. 

 

Oh lol.  Adding a winky face helps.    

 

I'm so accustomed to the YouTube comment section where everyone just constantly bashes everyone that it's difficult to tell when people are joking sometimes.   

[J0e Th0rnton]

@WordsOfWisdom

 

I absolutely HATE political talk on this board. In this case, it IS hockey related so i am going to make an exception and say my piece.

 

I don't like woke culture myself because I see lots of good people accused of stuff and things taken out of context ruining people for little to no reason or a mere accusation. If someone made a family guy style joke on twitter 15 years ago and gets condemned for it with 2020 youth eyes because family guy is considered extremely offensive by modern youth, that's stupid. I also think trial by rumor and the court of public opinion cancelling people for alleged METOO incidents with no proof years after the fact is stupid.

 

That being said, this incident isn't "woke Culture". This guy is the Harvey Weinstein level crap METOO originally targeted because there IS evidence of horrible stuff the guy got away with for years.

 

This is human decency, crime and punishment. This guy is a POS and deserves to have a huge punishment like losing opportunities to play hockey because he is a racist psychopathic prick who is obviously being sheltered by Mommy and Daddy reading that report. And the kid got a slap on the wrist for it 4 years ago. Bring on the barbed paddle

 

And this is just one of reportedly MANY incidents of bullying since the poor victim was in grade 2. Apparently this bully has been acting this way regularly all his life and mostly getting away with it because he was enabled, clearly, by his parents. To Hell with him.

 

Society SHOULD be condemning pieces of crap like this until he can't take it anymore and changes his ways or implodes and winds up in jail.

The fact that every NHL team that interviewed this kid put him on a DO NOT DRAFT LIST because they felt he showed no remorse or even care for the situation tells the tale. He was on Chakya's no draft list before he quit too BTW. the new Arizona GM didn't do his homework

 

have you read the school/police report of this?

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

6 minutes ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

I absolutely HATE political talk on this board. In this case, it IS hockey related so i am going to make an exception and say my piece.

 

One more LIKE and you hit 2000!  I have the power to make it happen!  

 

7 minutes ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

I don't like woke culture myself because I see lots of good people accused of stuff and things taken out of context ruining people for little to no reason or a mere accusation. If someone made a family guy style joke on twitter 15 years ago and gets condemned for it with 2020 youth eyes because family guy is considered extremely offensive by modern youth, that's stupid. I also think trial by rumor and the court of public opinion cancelling people for alleged METOO incidents with no proof years after the fact is stupid.

 

Agree 100%!

 

7 minutes ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

That being said, this incident isn't "woke Culture". This guy is the Harvey Weinstein level crap METOO originally targeted because there IS evidence of horrible stuff the guy got away with for years.

 

I agree that he's a dirt bag. Absolutely. 

 

8 minutes ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

This is human decency, crime and punishment.

 

Sounds like a job for the legal system!   

 

8 minutes ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

This guy is a POS and deserves to have a huge punishment like losing opportunities to play hockey

 

Whoops! That's the line I don't cross.

 

Deserves = Opinion of a judge, not the general public.

 

10 minutes ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

And this is just one of reportedly MANY incidents of bullying since the poor victim was in grade 2. Apparently this bully has been acting this way regularly all his life and mostly getting away with it because he was enabled, clearly, by his parents. To Hell with him.

 

I was thinking about this on my walk today:  I bet you all of the NHL owners are worse human beings than this guy. I bet you each and every one of the NHL owners were like this guy at the same age. Food for thought I guess.  

 

12 minutes ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

The fact that every NHL team that interviewed this kid put him on a DO NOT DRAFT LIST because they felt he showed no remorse or even care for the situation tells the tale.

 

The tale it tells though is the two-tiered justice system I spoke of earlier where employers are pretending to be judges and are handing out their own punishments based on the court of public opinion. 

 

Have there been any incidents in the last four years? 

 

Anyway, I think we rocked this topic. I'm giving you your 2000th LIKE. Good job!    

[J0e Th0rnton]

12 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

One more LIKE and you hit 2000!  I have the power to make it happen!  

 

 

Agree 100%!

 

 

I agree that he's a dirt bag. Absolutely. 

 

 

Sounds like a job for the legal system!   

 

 

Whoops! That's the line I don't cross.

 

Deserves = Opinion of a judge, not the general public.

 

 

I was thinking about this on my walk today:  I bet you all of the NHL owners are worse human beings than this guy. I bet you each and every one of the NHL owners were like this guy at the same age. Food for thought I guess.  

 

 

The tale it tells though is the two-tiered justice system I spoke of earlier where employers are pretending to be judges and are handing out their own punishments based on the court of public opinion. 

 

Have there been any incidents in the last four years? 

 

Anyway, I think we rocked this topic. I'm giving you your 2000th LIKE. Good job!    

It depends on the offense. like I said, I don't believe in punishing people years after the fact for minor offenses. but big ones?

So let me get this straight, if a child Molester got 4 years in prison(Canadian legal system is notoriously lenient), you would say "he's done his time. The public should not judge him and his felony record should not affect future employment"?

 

That's an extreme example. But again, this isn't a minor offense. So it scales upward to me.

 

As for the last few years. Are you aware this guy during court proceedings was rollerblading by the victims house every day to taunt him? Are you aware he never ever apologized to the victim and just tried to lay low instead of taking responsibility for it?

 

im going to quote what someone wrote elsewhere on the matter because I agree with it.

Quote

Anytime between now and going all the way back to his sentencing--he could have apologized, apologized through his agent, apologized through his family, attended therapy, joined one of the

many initiatives similar to Hockey is For Everyone, had an interview to set the record straight, make a public statement, give to charity, use the college opportunity in the name of the victim. These are just my ideas off the top of my head so more creative and engaged people could certainly get a few more?

Instead of doing ANY of the above, he hid, ran, let time pass, laid low. Wrote a letter begging NHL teams to draft him. That no one in his camp is willing to vouch for him--from his agent down to his family to teammates and organizations both past and present--and that he is not willing to say or do anything on his own behalf now that this is very front-and-center shows a lack of remorse and total cowardice, definitely doesn't show progress. You also asked what makes me feel Mitch isn't ready to change--that's it. The appearance of expecting the red carpet. Not taking any responsibility. Hell even in his interviews his agents made things off limits and most people put him on DND.

I've said before I believe in forgiveness and rehabilitation, and he had a unique opportunity and blew it. He's gonna have to do a little more now.

 

The total lack of remorse after his slap on the wrist and attempt to sweep it under the carpet and ignore it is akin to Weinstein paying off settlements to make the problem go away instead of changing his ways. because he was able to do this, he remained a predator for years.

 

This is REAL punishment now. A red flag for all junior players to see to know such behavior is unacceptable and will carry real consequences to their future. There are times to fight for free speech and say he paid for his crimes and there are times when you know this guy is such a scumbag and got off scott free with a minor wrist slap and deserves more because the system failed to properly do its job. This guy is that kind of Piece of crap. He deserves nobody's support.

 

Use critical thinking and realize that this is different from the average frivolous court of public opinion hatchet. Pick your battles.

Edited November 3, 2020 by J0e Th0rnton

[Math]

On 10/31/2020 at 10:14 AM, WordsOfWisdom said:

I guess the question is simply this:  Is the NHL going to be filled with the best hockey players in the world going forward or the most polite hockey players in the world? Do we want a league of alpha males or a league of beta males? 

 

The Broad Street Bullies were an entire team of bullies. You were supposed to be somewhat nasty and a badass to be a hockey player. These are gladiators. They're men. They're not supposed to be "sensitive". 

 

 

In this context, you will be very pleased with that.

 

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

12 hours ago, Villette/Lavaux said:

 

 

In this context, you will be very pleased with that.

 

 

 

You'll be pleased to know that I won't be watching them either. 

 

It'll simply stop being a feeder system for the NHL.  Good job OHL!  Say goodbye to your league. 

[WordsOfWisdom]

13 hours ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

It depends on the offense. like I said, I don't believe in punishing people years after the fact for minor offenses. but big ones?

So let me get this straight, if a child Molester got 4 years in prison(Canadian legal system is notoriously lenient), you would say "he's done his time. The public should not judge him and his felony record should not affect future employment"?

 

Correct!  With the provision that a convicted child molester would not be getting a job with kids immediately upon release. Unlike other people who would prevent him from ever working with kids (or ever working again period), I believe there's a second chance that should eventually come... but that period might be another 10 years beyond release (assuming no other convictions of that sort occur again).

 

All other forms of employment however, are on the table.  The fact that someone was convicted of a serious crime should not prevent them from obtaining employment in all other forms of jobs.  If this guy wants to deliver packages for UPS, so be it. If he wants to work as a computer programmer, so be it. Once the time has been served, they have a clean slate. That means the public should not be allowed to know their location, track their movements, or harass them everywhere they go in perpetuity.   

 

If the length of the jail sentence needs to be increased, so be it. Otherwise, they're free when they come out. (The alternative is to just put people in jail forever. If they're never going to be allowed to live a normal life after their release then you might as well give everyone a life sentence until they die or just invoke the death penalty. Bringing back the death penalty is simply an acknowledgement that rehabilitation is not an option for some crimes.)

 

 

 

13 hours ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

As for the last few years. Are you aware this guy during court proceedings was rollerblading by the victims house every day to taunt him? Are you aware he never ever apologized to the victim and just tried to lay low instead of taking responsibility for it?

 

I don't follow his life no.  The guy is simply an a-hole. No question about it. 

Edited November 4, 2020 by WordsOfWisdom