Pierre-Luc Dubois has asked for a trade , do we want him?

[OccamsRazor]

24 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

 

I wouldn't trade our top forward prospect and a legit NHL defenseman. I would trade "a" forward prospect or "an" NHL player.

 

Then I don't think you get that said player.

 

They don't have a player who is ready to step in and fill the hole it would leave them.

 

So no deal. You have to give up something to get something.

[OccamsRazor]

33 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I wouldn't do that deal.

I wouldn't trade our top forward prospect and a legit NHL defenseman. I would trade "a" forward prospect or "an" NHL player.

Maybe Kekolienen laughs at my offer and that's okay. Quality for quality I know, Ghost isn't chopped liver and I think he slots into their d-corps pretty well in a 4-6 role. 

I'm not super familiar with their defense beyond Jones, Werenski and Savard so I don't know who Ghost would have to unseat.  

Ghost has a good shot, great lateral movement and can QB PP2 or contribute on PP1 depending on how they set up. He doesn't suck at defense either, Fonzi would either whip him into shape or banish him to Cleveland. 

Edit: the deal would need to make hockey sense too, So like I said, I don't know if CBJ needs Ghost.

 

You have to give up something to get something.

 

They don't have anyone who can fill the hole it would leave in their lineup.

 

Sorry no deal.

[radoran]

41 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 I would make this trade.

 

Do it before the world realizes we've been oversold on Frost.

 

It sounds a teensy weency, timey wimey, littlest of bits like you're saying they should trade him now because his value may never be higher?

 

[mojo1917]

15 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

You have to give up something to get something

I understand this, I even said as much.

Ghost is quality. He's a spare part here, but he's useful somewhere, maybe that isn't with CBJ. 

I would like to use the asset (Ghost) to improve the team. Adding a guy who won't be salary controlled, by trading a guy who would be for him prevents roster flexibility. So Frost has value beyond what he does on the ice. 

The feeling I'm getting from some, not necessarily you, is trading Ghost is a salary dump or that he's terrible and not worth a quality asset in return. I don't think that's a wise way to view any trade he's involved in.( Until that specific outcome happens of course)

I'm not a grass is greener on the other side of the fence guy.

Ultimately I think you're right and DuBois winds up somewhere else.

[OccamsRazor]

13 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Ultimately I think you're right and DuBois winds up somewhere else.

 

I don't think he will. 

 

If so for example who would they plug into their top line center spot???

 

They don't have anyone Bump Max Domi up to top line?? 

 

That would be malpractice and the GM gets fire at seasons end.

 

I don't even think Frost is a fair price really....hell best he projects and this is being generous is a 2nd line center.

 

Patrick is the best young prospect who could project to a top line center....however the injury issue hangs over his head.

 

They have around 4.2 mill to take a player back if they do move PLD but i doubt also they would want to trade him to a team they would have to face.

 

So maybe out West somewhere if he is moved.

[RonJeremy]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

I wouldn't do that deal.

I wouldn't trade our top forward prospect and a legit NHL defenseman. I would trade "a" forward prospect or "an" NHL player.

Maybe Kekolienen laughs at my offer and that's okay. Quality for quality I know, Ghost isn't chopped liver and I think he slots into their d-corps pretty well in a 4-6 role. 

I'm not super familiar with their defense beyond Jones, Werenski and Savard so I don't know who Ghost would have to unseat.  

Ghost has a good shot, great lateral movement and can QB PP2 or contribute on PP1 depending on how they set up. He doesn't suck at defense either, Fonzi would either whip him into shape or banish him to Cleveland. 

Edit: the deal would need to make hockey sense too, So like I said, I don't know if CBJ needs Ghost.

We are gonna lose Ghost in the expansion draft anyway ,so he is gonna have to be traded . Since his value is diminished ,he is not worth much alone, but as part of a package deal it might be easier to get more value. I am sure Columbus wants more than Frost and Ghost and other teams would be bidding,  this would drive up the cost. Its certainly worth looking into. 

[SCFlyguy]

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Ghost is quality.

 

No, I don't think so.  And neither does the guy who takes his drink order in the press box.

[mojo1917]

@SCFlyguy

Dude has dynamic game changing ability. 

The game he plays best comes with inherent risks. When he's healthy, Ghost's pluses far outweigh his minuses.

There are a lot of guys in the league I'd pick before Ghost, but he's not bottom of the bargain bin. 

There's this mindset many fans ascribe to that says the Flyers players are trash and the bright shiny guys on other teams are worth so much "more".

In 2015 that would be right, today , not so much. There are skilled players with good character throughout the organization now. The Flyers have players other teams want.

I think Ghost will play in 25 games depending on the match-ups- even if it is just to showcase him for a trade.

There are 8-9 guys that can legitimately play defense in the NHL on this roster. (If you count Pouliot, who has flashes of competence)

 

 

[SCFlyguy]

A defenseman who plays in only 25 games because he is in and out of the lineup doesn't have much trade value and wouldn't be more than a throw-in for salary in a PLD trade.

 

I am not advocating for trading for PLD .  I'm just telling you that, sorry, Ghost plus Laughton (or other spare part) isn't going to get it done.

 

Would you trade Konecny for Ghost plus Laughton?  I hope not.

 

 

[mojo1917]

17 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

A defenseman who plays in only 25 games because he is in and out of the lineup doesn't have much trade value and wouldn't be more than a throw-in for salary in a PLD trade.

 

I am not advocating for trading for PLD .  I'm just telling you that, sorry, Ghost plus Laughton (or other spare part) isn't going to get it done.

 

Would you trade Konecny for Ghost plus Laughton?  I hope not.

 

 

Depends, do I have a guy with a similar skill set to Koneckny? Does my team need a player like Ghost? 

 

One of the reasons a trade with Wpg seems to make sense is they need defense and Flyers fans think they need scoring.

So, if my team's defense corps isn't strong but I have 2 forwards on the team with similar skills and a guy in the wings, and I want my team to compete, I might. Especially with a utility knife guy like Laughton who can play up and down the line-up, kill penalties and gives an honest effort every night in the deal. 

As for Ghost playing 25 games in a 6 man rotation with 3 spots locked in?

There are 8-9 guys competing for those 6 spots, so being in a rotation with 5 or 6 guys for 3 spots in a compressed schedule? 25 games isn't "we're hiding him because he sucks". 

 

Guys who can score 50 from the blue line don't grow on trees. He's not a throw-in in any deal, that's a stupid use of an asset. 

 

I'm not changing your mind, I don't see much merit in what you're saying either. There will be times we agree this isn't one of them.

have a good one. 

 

[SCFlyguy]

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Does my team need a player like Ghost? 

 

I guess technically ever team needs a 7th defenseman.

[Zzeke]

PLD, 22, plays both Center and LW.

 

"In the playoffs over the summer at the Toronto bubble, he had four goals and six assists in 10 games. The 6-foot-3, 218-pound forward can play both left wing and center as he played both spots for coach John Tortorella in the postseason. There is no question that Pierre-Luc Dubois is a rising star in the league and will be sought by many teams if Columbus does make him available."

 

Do we like this? - 

 

Lindblom-Couturier-Voracek
Dubois-Hayes-Konecny
Giroux-Patrick-Farabee
Laughton-Bunnaman-Aube Kubel (ideal AV 4th line)

 

#13-Raffl
JVR out somehow
If Patrick not healthy, then Frost at 3C.

 

With Dubois (a proven NHL forward) with our Flyers long-term as a LW, and Farabee moving to RW, that sets-back a RW prospect (where we are deep) such as Sandin, Allison, Foerster, Brink, Wisdom, Sushko, etc.

 

Even with Voracek and Giroux's careers winding down soon, we could afford to move a promising winger in a package to Columbus. 

 

Reported:

 

"When the Columbus Blue Jackets exited the 2020 postseason, the roster had an abundance of NHL-caliber defensemen but lacked proven centers. By the time the 2020-21 regular season begins, the team will have a decidedly different look. With the trades of long-time Blue Jacket Ryan Murray and his occasional D partner Markus Nutivaara, the blue line got thinner. Signing centers Max Domi and Mikko Koivu substantially improved the roster down the middle. The Blue Jackets could use a scoring winger…but who? "

 

Therefore, would we consider a 3-element trade like this for 22 year old LW PLD? - - 

 

1) a defenceman - Columbus choice of one defenceman: 
Gostisbehere, Hagg, or Friedman (RH) (Hagg may be taken by Seattle in July).

 

2) a RW - Columbus choice of Voracek, Sandin, or Allison. (This is the motivator for Columbus.)

Columbus certainly knows Voracek from his Blue Jacket days. We should be so lucky if they wanted him. Cap relief for our Flyers. Not probable. (IMO Voracek will be exposed in the July Expansion draft.)

 

3) a mid-Round draft pick

 

PLD has excellent size and great offensive instincts. Can play both wing or center and owns excellent strength.  He has some physicality and energy to his game. He plays all 3-zones. He is only 22 and has not peaked - - has upside.

 

I agree with those here that posted that PLD is more desired for our Flyers than Laine.

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Zzeke

[SCFlyguy]

Nobody is giving the Flyers their 22 yo 3rd overall pick 61 pt three-zone center for Ghost/Hagg/Friedman + Voracek+3rd round pick.

 

Why wouldn't CLB just pay PLD something between $5M and Voracek money instead of giving up assets for Voracek?

[Zzeke]

38 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

Nobody is giving the Flyers their 22 yo 3rd overall pick 61 pt three-zone center for Ghost/Hagg/Friedman + Voracek+3rd round pick.

 

Why wouldn't CLB just pay PLD something between $5M and Voracek money instead of giving up assets for Voracek?

 

@SCFlyguy

 

Read carefully. I'm suggesting that highly regarded prospects Allison and Sandin are the motivator to promp Kekalainen to think about it. I posted Voracek is not probable.

 

IMO, don't offer Farabee or Frost.

 

Reportedly PLD wants out for 2 reasons:

 

- he wants to get out from under Coach Tortorella

 

- during his RFA period, PLD learned of teams willing to give him a long-term deal where Columbus was not and he settled for a 2-year contract

 

Are you suggesting giving a rostered young player? And who?

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Zzeke

[SCFlyguy]

I am not suggesting we make an offer at all.  I am suggesting the offers of Ghost, Allison, etc. are woefully insufficient.

 

Let's put it this way: what would you want from CLB for Konecny?

[Zzeke]

3 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

I am not suggesting we make an offer at all.  I am suggesting the offers of Ghost, Allison, etc. are woefully insufficient.

 

Let's put it this way: what would you want from CLB for Konecny?

 

@SCFlyguy

 

I respect your opinions.

 

You posted in this thread multiple times reacting to those with opinions on who they would trade for C/LW PLD.

 

In this rare occasion, where a high-quality young player is seemingly available, would you like to see PLD with the Flyers?

 

As a good Flyers fan, and if you were to put on your Flyers GM hat, what would you offer to try to influence Kekalainen to trade with you?

 

(It's okay to put yourself out there with a positive post and accept feedback from others. We are all respectful and responsible posters.)

[yave1964]

ANYBODY should want Dubois, a 200 foot game, never takes a shift off, offense developing nicely..I watch a ton of CBJ games and the kid is absolutely the real deal.

 

 That said, I think he is a very poor fit for the Flyers.

 

The Flyers do not need center help, and Dubois has 1C aspirations, something that he would be blocked at with the Flyers.

 

 He is a poor faceoff guy, like many if not most young centers are which would not fit well with the Flyers who always have some of the highest faceoff winning pct. players in Giroux and Couturier. Dubois has this hitch, i dont know how they havent corrected it but his left leg kicks straight out when the puck is dropped and he loses draws because he always seems off balance. Of course, again the Flyers as arguably the leagues top faceoff teams could probably correct this.

 

 The cost is the big thing, He is signed for two years, there is absolutely no rush to trade him, the CBJ are in a position of strength, they dont need to deal him this year at all and have arguably until 2021-22 deadline before feeling pressure so to pry him away would be prohibitive. I imagine it would cost a teams top forward prospect, a roster forward and a first. Do I think he is worth it? To the right team sure, a team like the Habs who need a 1C could do that, Ottawa has prospects/picks to burn and he would be a brilliant add for them. Boston could use youth up front with Bergeron/Krejci aging, a few others come to mind, Carolina, Colorado. The Flyers simply dont need him for the cost of what it would take to pry him away. And that is coming from a huge fan of Dubois.

[Zzeke]

30 minutes ago, yave1964 said:

ANYBODY should want Dubois, a 200 foot game, never takes a shift off, offense developing nicely..I watch a ton of CBJ games and the kid is absolutely the real deal.

 

 That said, I think he is a very poor fit for the Flyers.

 

The Flyers do not need center help, and Dubois has 1C aspirations, something that he would be blocked at with the Flyers.

 

 He is a poor faceoff guy, like many if not most young centers are which would not fit well with the Flyers who always have some of the highest faceoff winning pct. players in Giroux and Couturier. Dubois has this hitch, i dont know how they havent corrected it but his left leg kicks straight out when the puck is dropped and he loses draws because he always seems off balance. Of course, again the Flyers as arguably the leagues top faceoff teams could probably correct this.

 

 The cost is the big thing, He is signed for two years, there is absolutely no rush to trade him, the CBJ are in a position of strength, they dont need to deal him this year at all and have arguably until 2021-22 deadline before feeling pressure so to pry him away would be prohibitive. I imagine it would cost a teams top forward prospect, a roster forward and a first. Do I think he is worth it? To the right team sure, a team like the Habs who need a 1C could do that, Ottawa has prospects/picks to burn and he would be a brilliant add for them. Boston could use youth up front with Bergeron/Krejci aging, a few others come to mind, Carolina, Colorado. The Flyers simply dont need him for the cost of what it would take to pry him away. And that is coming from a huge fan of Dubois.

 

Good stuff y1964. Informative. Thx.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Zzeke

[SCFlyguy]

1 hour ago, Zzeke said:

As a good Flyers fan, and if you were to put on your Flyers GM hat, what would you offer to try to influence Kekalainen to trade with you?

 

Again, I wouldn't necessarily, because what we would have to give up would hurt.  I already suggested that the minimum CLB would even consider would be Patrick+Ghost+3rd and I don't think that even gets it done.

 

FYI, Allison is OLDER than PLD.  I'm pretty sure CLB isn't interested.

[RonJeremy]

5 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

Nobody is giving the Flyers their 22 yo 3rd overall pick 61 pt three-zone center for Ghost/Hagg/Friedman + Voracek+3rd round pick.

 

Why wouldn't CLB just pay PLD something between $5M and Voracek money instead of giving up assets for Voracek?

The Flyers do have some good young prospects to offer , but we certainly would have to include  one of our top young guys like Frost for sure. You would have to think Columbus is not the least bit interested in Voracek or JVR or some of our other young players who were injured and missed a lot of hockey ,like  Patrick, Allison ,O’Brien and Rubstov.  They would want at least, Frost,  probably ask for Sanheim ,a first round pick and probably something else . We have a pool of young guys like Frost, Brink, Foerester,  Zamula and York . They would certainly want some of these guys and a first round pick , I don’t know how the flat cap has changed the market value for trades, maybe it works in our favor, it all depends on what other teams are able to offer.  A fair trade is probably something like Frost, Brink and Ghost for PLD.

Edited January 5, 2021 by RonJeremy

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Dubois is one of the few players in the league that I would include Frost in a deal for. Honestly, if Columbus is looking to rebuild the pipeline,  I'd offer Frost, Zamula, Gostisbehere and a draft pick for.  Columbus would be getting two elite prospects,  a defenseman who would thrive on that blueline. As for the draft pick,  they aren't getting a 1st or a 2nd. That's quite a good haul for a player who doesn't want to be in Columbus and more important, a player who could possibly cause friction in the locker room with regards to wanting out.  I get that Columbus isn't going to sell him for pennies on the dollar,  but they have to realize that if he becomes a distraction,  it could be enough to sink the team.  No GM or head coach would risk that.  If they sit him out,  he loses value. 

[Zzeke]

1 hour ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Dubois is one of the few players in the league that I would include Frost in a deal for. Honestly, if Columbus is looking to rebuild the pipeline,  I'd offer Frost, Zamula, Gostisbehere and a draft pick for.  Columbus would be getting two elite prospects,  a defenseman who would thrive on that blueline. As for the draft pick,  they aren't getting a 1st or a 2nd. That's quite a good haul for a player who doesn't want to be in Columbus and more important, a player who could possibly cause friction in the locker room with regards to wanting out.  I get that Columbus isn't going to sell him for pennies on the dollar,  but they have to realize that if he becomes a distraction,  it could be enough to sink the team.  No GM or head coach would risk that.  If they sit him out,  he loses value. 

 

@BobbyClarkeFan16

 

Some interesting thinking BCF16 regarding Frost.

 

Frost is gong to be a high quality player in the NHL as he matures in his game. He has only played Center in JRs and Pro. If Patrick's health holds-up, the Flyers are set at Center for the top-9 for years:

Couturier

Hayes

Patrick

(The 4th line is another whole discussion, not for now.)

 

Frost is locked-out, and the Flyers organization must try to groom him at wing with the Phantoms. Frost is ready for the NHL at Center.

 

PLD plays Center and LW. Proven. If Frost goes in a package to Columbus, PLD can come in and play LW, and he also would be a back-up to play 3C if Patrick has health issues.

 

However, the quote shown in my previous post in this thread:

 

"When the Columbus Blue Jackets exited the 2020 postseason, the roster had an abundance of NHL-caliber defensemen but lacked proven centers. By the time the 2020-21 regular season begins, the team will have a decidedly different look. With the trades of long-time Blue Jacket Ryan Murray and his occasional D partner Markus Nutivaara, the blue line got thinner. Signing centers Max Domi and Mikko Koivu substantially improved the roster down the middle. The Blue Jackets could use a scoring winger…but who? "

 

Frost may, or may not, be very interested in Frost. GM Kekalainen may be looking for a quality proven defenceman or winger, unless one of his centers can play equally well at wing and move there to make room for Frost.

 

Getting a proven quality defenceman may be key for Kekalainen. The Flyers don't have that to give up. If Kekalainen was willing to take Frost and one of Ghost/Hagg/Friedman, that would be good for our Flyers IMO.

 

It's harder, and more important to NHL GMs, to build a quality 6-man defence.

 

For our Flyers, Zamula is 'next up' in the high value prospect stream:

 

Egor Zamula
Cameron York
Wyatte Wylie
Linus Hogberg
Emil Andrae
Ronald Attard
Mason Millman
Adam Ginning
John St. Ivany
Valeri Vasilyev

 

This assumes Friedman is already considered NHL experienced.

 

The 6'-4" high skill Zamula is going to be a good one. Fletcher/Flahr are very high on him. IMO, he would not be offered in a package for PLD, rightfully so.

 

In a few seasons, our Flyers may have one of the best mobile 3-zone quality defence groups in the NHL. We may be looking at something like this:

 

2020-21 Season
Provorov - Gustafsson
Sanheim - Myers (RH) (don't break them up)
Hagg - Braun (RH)
#7 - Friedman (RH)
Ghost - traded

 

2021-22 Season
Provorov - Gustafsson (re-signed as a UFA)
Sanheim - Myers (RH)
Hagg - Zamula or Zamula - Friedman (RH)
#7 - Hagg or Braun (Hagg may be taken by the Kraken in Expansion Draft)

 

2022-23 Season
Provorov - Gustafsson
Sanheim - Myers (RH)
York - Zamula
#7 - Hagg or Friedman (RH)

Dynamic 6-man defence.

 

Ooops, the Team USA / Team Canada Gold Medal game is starting - - - gotta go - - - 

 

Nice play by our Flyers' York already - - - of course all of us are pulling for Team USA, including our guys in Manitoba, Ontario, BC, etc - - 

 

Back with a continuation edit (Team USA leads 1-0 after the first period) - 

 

So, BCF16, for PLD, I agree with you to include Frost, but not Zamula in the package.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Zzeke

[OccamsRazor]

10 hours ago, Zzeke said:

The 6'-4" high skill Zamula is going to be a good one. Fletcher/Flahr are very high on him. IMO, he would not be offered in a package for PLD, rightfully so.

 

Not saying he will but it's possible Zamula makes Sanheim expendable.

 

We'll see.

[SCFlyguy]

The main value of Zamula/York etc. is that two or three years from now when Sanheim and/or Myers need to be paid $6M per year, you have a younger, cheaper version to replace them.

[ruxpin]

11 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

The main value of Zamula/York etc. is that two or three years from now when Sanheim and/or Myers need to be paid $6M per year, you have a younger, cheaper version to replace them.

Kind of a sick, sad world we live in, but this post is dead on accurate.