OccamsRazor Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 25 minutes ago, ruxpin said: There is no try; there is only do. We're nearing -- if not at -- do or don't do. They need to make a decision very soon (right now) whether this team is one or two key players away and do it OR decide it isn't and move a player or two that bring a retool and reshuffle for next year. If we wait too much longer the concept of "fix for this year" will be moot. There is a bit more runway for the decision to unload, but even that should probably be sooner than later. I'm torn on which I would prefer. And the reasoning by this is because in my gut I know they won't do the right thing either way. They will half ass it like always. It really feels like the GM is scared to add his touch to the roster. Why I can't say. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 12 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: I'm torn on which I would prefer. And the reasoning by this is because in my gut I know they won't do the right thing either way. They will half ass it like always. It really feels like the GM is scared to add his touch to the roster. Why I can't say. I imagine it's tough. We have the feel of a team that is in a place in which a brilliant move could launch us into a really good place but the wrong move could really set us back in a bad way. And you can't possibly know the ultimate result ahead of time. I think the percentages favor the latter. Just law of nature. So just on a personal psychological level, I sympathize that especially for a "processor" this is a tough crossroads moment. It can be paralyzing. But in my mind, lead or don't. You wanted this role; you're paid for this role and this moment, so LEAD. Stop managing, and LEAD. Just, for the love of God, don't consult Jeffery Lurie. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 @OccamsRazor How's this for certifiably insane? Giroux, Gus, and Patrick. Roughly $15.4M Eichel, Risto are roughly $15.4M though while younger are also longer term. Risto is a potential trainwreck but also could possibly use a fresh start. I think Buffalo would be insane to do this, but I think their insanity is well-established. Throw in a midrange prospect or pick if it helps. You just got younger from Giroux. It could go really well or really badly, but....yeah, I don't know. If they're game I might try it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 51 minutes ago, ruxpin said: @OccamsRazor How's this for certifiably insane? Giroux, Gus, and Patrick. Roughly $15.4M Eichel, Risto are roughly $15.4M though while younger are also longer term. Risto is a potential trainwreck but also could possibly use a fresh start. I think Buffalo would be insane to do this, but I think their insanity is well-established. Throw in a midrange prospect or pick if it helps. You just got younger from Giroux. It could go really well or really badly, but....yeah, I don't know. If they're game I might try it. I think if Eichel is moved it's to home in Boston. Otherwise yes I make his move but the Sabres won't like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 8 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: I think if Eichel is moved it's to home in Boston. Otherwise yes I make his move but the Sabres won't like it. I agree on both counts....well, the second count with a slight edit. Sabres fans won't like it. Sabres management is apparently too stupid to know this is a bad idea. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: We know how hard it is to make up ground in the Standings. Actually though, with all the games in the division this is the one year where it is easier. Games are 4 point swings if won in regulation, your team gets two the opponent loses 2. A win vs pgh on Saturday would have put the Flyers 6 pts ahead of them, instead the loss put them at only 2 (at the time) The issue is getting the team playing well enough that it matters. So for me, I think an effort has to be made to fill Niskanen's minutes/role. I think if the team gets the d pairings straightened out, they will be better, almost instantly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 30 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: So for me, I think an effort has to be made to fill Niskanen's minutes/role. I agree if you can make only one acquisition it should be a guy who can help the defense fix the defense and maybe the forwards won't have to exhaust themselves back checking. So if you don’t want to worry about the protection issue for the expansion draft maybe Savard is the best option as a rental. Then if things go well you could decide in the offseason to resign him or move on. I guess it would depend on what the Blue Jackets want for him. But it would give you a right hand shot to work with Provy. Provorov - Savard Sanheim - Myers Hagg - Braun I wonder if Ghost plus a pick would get it done? Maybe a 2nd since they don't have one in the draft. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 And I do not really think that Savard is a clear cut #2 but when you look at the other options that have been tried with Ivan well everyone has had a chance. So time to try something new. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 31 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: Actually though, with all the games in the division this is the one year where it is easier. Games are 4 point swings if won in regulation, your team gets two the opponent loses 2. A win vs pgh on Saturday would have put the Flyers 6 pts ahead of them, instead the loss put them at only 2 (at the time) The issue is getting the team playing well enough that it matters. So for me, I think an effort has to be made to fill Niskanen's minutes/role. I think if the team gets the d pairings straightened out, they will be better, almost instantly. I agree that getting a top notch dman will immediately help the team defense and take pressure off Sanheim and Meyers but our core is aging and highly paid, JVR, Jake, G and Hayes are In their 30s. So if there was ever a time to unload a veteran this is the year to do it, especially with JVR and G having solid seasons. Their value continues to diminish as each year goes by , once it hits a certain point you won’t be able to even give them away. I think we are chasing a pipe dream, getting a defenseman isn’t gonna cure all the other problems this team has. We are not legit Cup contenders ,anyone who thinks we are is in denial. Teams like Boston ,Washington and the Isles are built for playoff hockey, we are not, we will out in the first round. We have some contracts to think about in the near future , like Coots, Sanheim, Hart etc. and we need to free up some $$. If anything, I’m cleaning house at the deadline or in the off season. We are only prolonging the inevitable rebuild for another year by chasing a cup and giving up assets that can be used in bigger deals down the line. Other than Farabee, Provorov, Meyers,Brink, Foerester and Wisdom, everyone else is expendable. Coots is actually our most valuable asset, he would get a big return, unlike any of the other veterans. I would listen to any offers and see what’s out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: And I do not really think that Savard is a clear cut #2 but when you look at the other options that have been tried with Ivan well everyone has had a chance. So time to try something new. Here's another dangerous post: I realize he's only just turned 24, but this is now his 5th season in the league, so when is it fair to expect that Provorov would actually be the one others lean on rather than him being the one that needs to lean? I know, defenseman developmental curve and all that, but when is it fair with a defensman to start talking about the "makes those around him better" criteria? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 6 hours ago, ruxpin said: Half this board will hate this. But it is beyond time to move Giroux. This isn't about Giroux hate. This is about common sense and sober weighing of evidence and clear headed asset management. There are now nearly enough ex-Flyers coaches to staff a division. The roster has turned over more than once. An entire generation of draft picks have come through and continue to. To what result? What has changed, exactly? This isn't on Giroux. Giroux is a good player. Please save the litany of, "bbb..but [insert irrelevant statement]. This boils down to the inarguable fact that he is the one constant and it (read this slowly) IS NOT WORKING. At this point, even do it as a charity act and give him a chance to win something elsewhere. But he still can bring a significant return and his contact term is to a point where other teams might take it without docking against the return. If we are not going to go this season, do it now. Arguably the same with Vorachek, but it's hard to think he actually has much return value. Yet, if you're not going for it, move him and clear out cap and roster space and call it a win. If you're going for it, go for it. I think it's insane to think there's a chance if you can't get Hart going, but go ahead if you think so. But then do something NOW. If not, do the smart thing and use the chips you have available to speed up the retool as best you can. I was ready to move on from Giroux and Voracek after last season. That opinion hasn't changed. I think the big issue is that the current collection in management don't want to move any of those guys because "they've done so much for the club that they should stay with the franchise for the rest of their careers." As well, Giroux has the no movement deal and work baby number 2 on the way, I doubt he waives it. Voracek might be easier to move because he doesn't have that nmc, but the contract will be an issue because nobody wants to take on salary right now. We're stuck with them until further notice. The Flyers had opportunities to move them, but chose not to. Now that there's a pandemic, nobody is in any of the arenas and because the NHL is a gate driven league, that idea will need to be put to rest. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 6 hours ago, ruxpin said: There are now nearly enough ex-Flyers coaches to staff a division. The roster has turned over more than once. An entire generation of draft picks have come through and continue to. To what result? What has changed, exactly? This isn't on Giroux. Giroux is a good player. Please save the litany of, "bbb..but [insert irrelevant statement]. This boils down to the inarguable fact that he is the one constant and it (read this slowly) IS NOT WORKING. At this point, even do it as a charity act and give him a chance to win something elsewhere. But he still can bring a significant return and his contact term is to a point where other teams might take it without docking against the return. If we are not going to go this season, do it now. This is definitely a "wise minded" approach to the situation. I don't think he waives...maybe, maybe he has the shits of this too. I don't think he waives to go to Buffalo though, but maybe to Ontario or Manatoba, so that's Ottawa , Winterpeg and Montreal. What do you suppose a trade with those teams would look like ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 40 minutes ago, ruxpin said: Here's another dangerous post: I realize he's only just turned 24, but this is now his 5th season in the league, so when is it fair to expect that Provorov would actually be the one others lean on rather than him being the one that needs to lean? He's not there yet. That is clear. I really think the calculus was that "Vanya" was ready to carry a pairing and as of last night, he's not. Sort has the feeling that maybe they'd really like Myers to be the guy on the right with Provorov but he is still a baby in terms of NHL games played. That's a big ask, and Phil is really not ready for that kind of responsibility mentally. Physically he as all the things, and I think he's got a good attitude combined very good hockey smarts. It would be better for his growth to not have to face top lines every night for 25 minutes. Maybe it takes a minute for #9 to learn how to play and control a game like Duncan Keith or Drew Doughty, maybe he needs the right dude in the room with him to help figure it out. That dude isn't in the room as we're talking about this. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 13 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: He's not there yet. That is clear. I really think the calculus was that "Vanya" was ready to carry a pairing and as of last night, he's not. Sort has the feeling that maybe they'd really like Myers to be the guy on the right with Provorov but he is still a baby in terms of NHL games played. That's a big ask, and Phil is really not ready for that kind of responsibility mentally. Physically he as all the things, and I think he's got a good attitude combined very good hockey smarts. It would be better for his growth to not have to face top lines every night for 25 minutes. Maybe it takes a minute for #9 to learn how to play and control a game like Duncan Keith or Drew Doughty, maybe he needs the right dude in the room with him to help figure it out. That dude isn't in the room as we're talking about this. ^^^Speaking of "wise-minded"^^^ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 1 minute ago, ruxpin said: ^^^Speaking of "wise-minded"^^^ Not sure what to do with all this wise-mindedness, much more used to the wise-assery. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 21 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: I don't think he waives to go to Buffalo though, but maybe to Ontario or Manatoba, so that's Ottawa , Winterpeg and Montreal. What do you suppose a trade with those teams would look like ? I actually forgot about the waiving part. Honestly, if he waives to go to Buffalo, I think we can put to bed any question about his desire to win. The same goes for Ottawa, although there's a place that he might actually be able to help. He would give Montreal a top 6 center, too. I think in Winnipeg he needs to play wing. Same with Tronno. I'm not familiar enough with their assets to talk about including any prospects there. If the Peg is willing to talk about Dubois, I'm game. The deal would have to be larger than that, I think, to make the money work, but without looking I'm not sure what all that involves. With Ottawa, I want Stutzel back. Ottawa has a lot of available cap space, but I'm not under the impression they want to use it, so if Zaitsev would be a good place to start, but he's 29 and has 4 years left on $4.5M. It's not a ton, but I think we tire of him before then. I would love Chabot, actually. But he's at $8M/8yrs so, yeah, I don't know. Giroux, Ghost, Patrick Chabot, Stutzel, XXXX? (Tierney?) I mean, Ottawa has worked out so well, I'm not really sure I want half their team in this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 7 minutes ago, Podein25 said: Not sure what to do with all this wise-mindedness, much more used to the wise-assery. I've always assumed Ewe were more of an ass-man. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 8 minutes ago, ruxpin said: I've always assumed Ewe were more of an ass-man. I like all the parts 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 9 minutes ago, ruxpin said: I mean, Ottawa has worked out so well, I'm not really sure I want half their team in this. To me that team looks like a version of the Oil. There are a lot of good players but not a great or even good veteran presence to show them how to be a pro and win. Think Pittsburgh before Bill Guerin got in the room. Giroux doesn't bring championship bonifides but he does bring professionalism and has been to a final and beyond one round of playoffs. He could be helpful. Stutzel is a bad ************, I'd love to see the Flyers build around that kid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 There's no way Ottawa is trading Stutzle 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 12 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: There are a lot of good players but not a great or even good veteran presence to show them how to be a pro and win. Wait that sounds like the Flyers who sound like the Senators who sound like the Oil. By Gawd I think you're right. So.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 2 hours ago, ruxpin said: Here's another dangerous post: I realize he's only just turned 24, but this is now his 5th season in the league, so when is it fair to expect that Provorov would actually be the one others lean on rather than him being the one that needs to lean? I know, defenseman developmental curve and all that, but when is it fair with a defensman to start talking about the "makes those around him better" criteria? We've seen Provorov look like that guy previously. Not this year. But everyone not named Couturier/Farabee/NAK and earlier Hart/Elliott has sucked azz this season. Even when we were winning. And I said it then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Podein25 said: There's no way Ottawa is trading Stutzle Wanna bet? Offer them Couturier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Podein25 said: There's no way Ottawa is trading Stutzle Oh no, no way. But that's what I'd want. Actually, there are some other pieces I'd certainly settle for, but if we were playing NHL'95, that's my move. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 1 hour ago, flyercanuck said: has sucked azz this season The first time I read that, I read, "...has sucked aziz this season." I was thinking, "hmmm, good for him, I guess, for finally getting some action." 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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