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(poll) is Marleau a Hall of Famer?


Marleau in the Hall?  

11 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Patrick Marleau go into the hall of fame?

    • Yes, first ballot no brainer
      3
    • If it is a weak class, maybe....
      6
    • No, just a creer journeyman who hung around forever
      2


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  Last night Patrick Marleau, age 41 chugged into a tie with Steve Larmer for the 4th longest Iron man streak in NHL history at 884 games. I was listening to Mike Johnson this morning on my run, talking about Marleau and how he is 15 games away from breaking Gordie Howe's all time record for total games in the NHL and questioning if he is a Hall of famer.

 

  I have to admit I thought at first it was idiotic, to say that the player who has appeared in the most games in NHL history , has won gold for his country twice, who has 563 goals and nearly 1200 points to still be on the bubble was just morning filler, of course he is a HOFer, but on coming home I took a look at his stats a bit. I present the case for and against, @JR Ewing Will likely be so kind as to run the Keltner test in here if he has time and see what it says. @J0e Th0rnton the same, will if his kids allow add valuable opines.

 

CASE FOR

All time leader in games played.

4th longest Iron man streak of all time

7 times hit 30 plus goals peaking at 44

nearly 600 goals, 1200 career points.

won gold for Canada twice

 

CASE AGAINST 

 

No Stanley cup in spite of playing on elite teams

Never mentioned for any award. Ever.

Has padded his numbers by hanging around forever, for nearly a decade he has just been an okay 3rd liner.

 

  To me, I would put him in and not even blink but that no cup thing haunts him the way that it did the Sedin's and Sundin and many more. Opinion?

 

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15 minutes ago, yave1964 said:

@JR Ewing Will likely be so kind as to run the Keltner test in here if he has time and see what it says

 

I was just thinking that .... my first gut reaction says no BUT then again what do I know! :P

 

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No. its the hall of fame not the hall of very good. Marleau has never been on the radar for any major award EVER. He was just a solid dependable compiler who would get looks for the lady bing ever year for playing such a no touch game. A game which despite people lauding his playoff goals, was not good in the playoffs. Roenick had it right when he said "if he had half my heart or I had Half his talent, it would have been a top all time player"

 

I don't even agree with Cam Neely being in there despite being the prototypical power forward who got hitting from behind its own penalty and he was my favorite player growing up.

 

Thornton on the other hand is a lock for 1st Ballot even with his lack of playoff success. A top 6 finalist for the hart 5 times in his career, sometimes outscoring his next closest teammate by over 50%, turning chicken **** into chicken salad. if Thornton played in the 80's its highly likely he is 2nd in all time assists behind Gretzky. He lost a year and a half of his prime to lockouts and sits at 1098 assists in 7th place all time while doing it in mostly low scoring era and he never really had major injuries until the last few years when both his knees got blown out. Ron Francis is #2 with 1249 lol. He is also one of 3 players to ever hit back to back 90 assist seasons. The other 2 are named Gretzky and Lemieux lol

 

Edit: jeez. he is even 14th in all time POINTS, despite playing in a mostly low scoring era.

 

 

Edited by J0e Th0rnton
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@J0e Th0rnton

 

I agree with the compiler thing, plodding along with 70 points a year for a decade followed by another decade of 40ish year in year out. But the overall numbers, first all time in games played in the NHL has to count for something.  Nobody with nearly 600 career goals is NOT in the Hall, nobody with 1200 points is NOT in the Hall (except those not yet eligible all of whom will be. 

 

  Not sure if you follow baseball but to me Marleau has always been Hockey's version of Don Sutton, a guy who never has that monster two or three year peak but instead went out and for 20 years seemed to have one year after another going 15-10 or 16-11 year after year, like punching a clock and then when the dust settled on his career he won 324 games with 3500 strikeouts which was simply to much not to put in.

 

  A recent Hockey version IMHO was Dave Andreychuk, a compiler who peaked with a few damn good years with the Leafs in the mid nineties but then fell off fast and hard but hung around forever because a) he still had one skill, scoring power play goals from two feet in front of the net (he is the all time leader in power play goals, I have won a couple of bar bets on that one) and b) he was well liked by teammates and the press, but after his career high 53 goals, 99 points in 94, he played another 12 years and never came close to putting those numbers up again. He put up year after year of 38 points, 21 goals for a dozen years at the end, fans warmed to  his winning a cup at the end with Tampa the way that Lanny Mac did in Calgary a few decades earlier. But his numbers when all else was forgotten were impossible to ignore and it took a decade and the fact that he was so slow that you could time him with a sundial was romanticized and his numbers made him a mortal lock. He was never great, maybe close for a few years but damn could he flick the puck from two feet in front of the net like nobody before or since and the numbers, very similar to Marleau got him in the hall.

 

  My personal opinion is he skates in (pun intended) within five years of first becoming eligible. Part of it is  right now the carryover of potential HOFers isnt deep, Hell Vachon and Carboneau who have no place in the hall without buying a ticket made it in because there is no log jam and SOMEBODY has to get voted in, so when it comes down to Marleau and a bunch of guys with 750-800 points or 1100 games it will be an easy pick. It would be nice if the Hall was truly honoring the greatest of all time but it hasnt been that in a long time and it has actually gotten worse, not better. Marleau is a better pick than half of the people who went in over the past decade.

 

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23 minutes ago, yave1964 said:

@J0e Th0rnton

 

I agree with the compiler thing, plodding along with 70 points a year for a decade followed by another decade of 40ish year in year out. But the overall numbers, first all time in games played in the NHL has to count for something.  Nobody with nearly 600 career goals is NOT in the Hall, nobody with 1200 points is NOT in the Hall (except those not yet eligible all of whom will be. 

 

  Not sure if you follow baseball but to me Marleau has always been Hockey's version of Don Sutton, a guy who never has that monster two or three year peak but instead went out and for 20 years seemed to have one year after another going 15-10 or 16-11 year after year, like punching a clock and then when the dust settled on his career he won 324 games with 3500 strikeouts which was simply to much not to put in.

 

  A recent Hockey version IMHO was Dave Andreychuk, a compiler who peaked with a few damn good years with the Leafs in the mid nineties but then fell off fast and hard but hung around forever because a) he still had one skill, scoring power play goals from two feet in front of the net (he is the all time leader in power play goals, I have won a couple of bar bets on that one) and b) he was well liked by teammates and the press, but after his career high 53 goals, 99 points in 94, he played another 12 years and never came close to putting those numbers up again. He put up year after year of 38 points, 21 goals for a dozen years at the end, fans warmed to  his winning a cup at the end with Tampa the way that Lanny Mac did in Calgary a few decades earlier. But his numbers when all else was forgotten were impossible to ignore and it took a decade and the fact that he was so slow that you could time him with a sundial was romanticized and his numbers made him a mortal lock. He was never great, maybe close for a few years but damn could he flick the puck from two feet in front of the net like nobody before or since and the numbers, very similar to Marleau got him in the hall.

 

  My personal opinion is he skates in (pun intended) within five years of first becoming eligible. Part of it is  right now the carryover of potential HOFers isnt deep, Hell Vachon and Carboneau who have no place in the hall without buying a ticket made it in because there is no log jam and SOMEBODY has to get voted in, so when it comes down to Marleau and a bunch of guys with 750-800 points or 1100 games it will be an easy pick. It would be nice if the Hall was truly honoring the greatest of all time but it hasnt been that in a long time and it has actually gotten worse, not better. Marleau is a better pick than half of the people who went in over the past decade.

 

I think of Gartner when I think of Marleau 

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I think he's just a very solid (not spectacular) hockey player who was/is reliable, durable and consistient, often overlooked and then when you looks at his stats, it quietly piled up...his accolades say no, but his stats say yes.

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2 hours ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

I think of Gartner when I think of Marleau 

Also a Hofer. Both Gartner and Andreychuk are good examples of long lasting compilers. 

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5 minutes ago, yave1964 said:

Also a Hofer. Both Gartner and Andreychuk are good examples of long lasting compilers. 

Yes and I hate both in the hall.

 

I personally feel the hall should be elite game breakers

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3 hours ago, J0e Th0rnton said:

Yes and I hate both in the hall.

 

I personally feel the hall should be elite game breakers

I'm with you on this.

I have a highly romanticized view of the Hall of Fame (not just hockey), and these players don't belong in the Hall,IMO.

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They should create a second Hall...
The Hall of Very Good.

In which case many current HOF'ers can be moved over into it, and Marleau would be a shoo-in for.  :) 

EDIT:
Oooops...I see @J0e Th0rnton already mentioned the HOVG. hehe

Edited by TropicalFruitGirl26
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10 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

They should create a second Hall...
The Hall of Very Good.

 

I personally like the "NHLers Over Time:  Hockey's Assortment of Less Famous &  Below Awesomely Dazzling"    We could call it "The NOTHALFBAD."

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1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

 

I personally like the "NHLers Over Time:  Hockey's Assortment of Less Famous &  Below Awesomely Dazzling"    We could call it "The NOTHALFBAD."

 

I see you've given this a bit of thought.  :biggrin: 

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1 hour ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

 

I see you've given this a bit of thought.  :biggrin: 

 

Me?   Thought?  😎

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1 hour ago, Math said:

If he grows a Dennis Maruk moustache, then yes. Otherwise it's a no go for me.

A Maruk sighting!!! I just finished reading his book that he came out with a few years ago. Love the porn stache!!!

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 3/23/2021 at 2:31 PM, J0e Th0rnton said:

No. its the hall of fame not the hall of very good. Marleau has never been on the radar for any major award EVER. He was just a solid dependable compiler who would get looks for the lady bing ever year for playing such a no touch game.

 

I look at it like HITS in baseball.  It doesn't matter if you have 3,000 hits in 3,000 at-bats or 3,000 hits in 25,000 at-bats, if you hit that milestone you get into the HOF. In hockey, longevity counts for something as well. He stuck around long enough to compile some impressive totals and the icing on the cake is setting the NHL record for games played. As soon as you set an NHL record for something, you're going into the HOF for sure.  :)

 

On 3/23/2021 at 3:00 PM, yave1964 said:

I agree with the compiler thing, plodding along with 70 points a year for a decade followed by another decade of 40ish year in year out. But the overall numbers, first all time in games played in the NHL has to count for something.  Nobody with nearly 600 career goals is NOT in the Hall, nobody with 1200 points is NOT in the Hall (except those not yet eligible all of whom will be. 

 

I think if there were any doubt before, him breaking the all-time record for games played now makes him a HOF'er for sure.  :) 

 

 

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On 3/23/2021 at 5:02 PM, Brewin Flames said:

I think he's just a very solid (not spectacular) hockey player who was/is reliable, durable and consistient, often overlooked and then when you looks at his stats, it quietly piled up...his accolades say no, but his stats say yes.

Totally agree 

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