What is wrong with the Flyers and how do you fix it?

[SCFlyguy]

5 hours ago, CoachX said:

See, I don't really get that argument. At one point he was considered top 4 in the league, and at least in the conversation. I get he was never Crosby or Ovi, and never will be. But why has his decline been so dramatic over the same time period, and theirs has not? I know the response is going to be something about how they are HOF super talents, and I get it, and agree, but I still don't see the "physical skills" decline.

No, you were exactly correct.  Giroux was never in their league in any real sense.

 

Go on Hockey Reference and look at the Similarity Scores (players with similar statistical careers) for Crosby:  he is compared to all-time legends like Jagr, Gordie Howe, etc.

 

Giroux is compared to Jeff Carter.

[RonJeremy]

47 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I love doritos,  they are a nemesis to my pants size.

Thank god I haven’t smoked weed in 25 years or I might have Dorito crumbs in my blood stream.

[CoachX]

10 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

No, you were exactly correct.  Giroux was never in their league in any real sense.

 

Go on Hockey Reference and look at the Similarity Scores (players with similar statistical careers) for Crosby:  he is compared to all-time legends like Jagr, Gordie Howe, etc.

 

Giroux is compared to Jeff Carter.

i'll get right on that!

[RonJeremy]

47 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

 

Oh there is definite benefit to strength training.

 

I'm 51 and built similarly to you, 5 11 185...now in my late 30s I was 200 lbs and was pretty strong -worked out about the same amount, my joints can't take the weight anymore so i do mostly hiit body weight for strength and cardio 6 times a week.

 

At the pro sports level training and what helps performance is different I'm sure.

And I know Voracek loves beer and periogies. He used to be part owner of a brewpub. 

 

I think I remember reading about Giroux trying to do more core and flexibility off season work pre COVID.

 

I’m 56, 6ft 1, 8 inches and 238 lbs. My normal weight was around 220-225. I have worked out for many years and played various sports. The last 3 years I have had rotator cuff and back surgery and got COVID in March 2020. So my attempted comeback has been thwarted a number of times. Every time I got on a roll at the gym, my back or shoulder would give out and I would have to stop. Finally got the surgeries , then COVID hit. I lost so much muscle ,I looked like Roger Thomas from What’s Happening. Then after I recovered, I made some gains , then they shutdown the gym . Since I live In NY , everything was  shutdown except the riots. I have worked from home for the last year and the highlight of my days and nights was ordering food. So I went from Roger Thomas to Rerun. So  I’m now back at the gym and on the comeback trail. Currently 238 gotta drop 15 lbs.

[Cheesesteak]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

I love doritos,  they are a nemesis to my pants size.

lol, not to hijack the thread with snack talk but ME TOO

I astound myself with how easily I plow through a big bag of those...open on Fri, gone by Sunday.

 

I actually curse at the foodstore when I turn the corner to see one of those twofer deals...2 for $5, 2 for $6.   I mostly go with one Ranch, one Nacho original.    now and then I try one of dem dere newfangled flavors but mostly old school.

 

anyone remember when they came out there was Sour Cream and Onion flavored ones?  those were good, wish they'd bring'em back.   I've seen old school taco flavor here and there.

[Cheesesteak]

2 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Three reasons for Girouxs decline...

A huge contract

A no trade clause
Most of all , I don’t think his offseason training routine is all that great, I think his conditioning is crap , he looks kinda doughy and he has  slowed down. I just don’t he does much training. If  he wanted to be great again, he should hire the trainer that prolonged Recchis career with special leg exercises that targeted certain muscles.  Giroux got too comfortable. MGGA....Make Giroux Great Again

Dangit, I thought we were talking about Verysuck.  

 

the time that Jagr was on the team was when Jake played best IMO...trained hard thanks to Jagr's tutelage.   Thought that would carry over after he left, guess not.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Cheesesteak

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

And I know Voracek loves beer and periogies.

 

And that is what training is for to help offset that.

 

Who does like living....in fact my over indulgence in it this past month is why i am 200 and not 190.

 

But he needs to find a way since he is a pro athlete and well your job basically rides on it.

 

 

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

I recommend Kettlebells

 

I love them i only use them every now and then because i only have them at the gym and well a lot of folks there love them too.

 

One of my favorite shoulder movements is with kettlebells while sitting flat on the floor with your legs spread out in front of you....wow what a workout.

 

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

Voracek makes me miss Mike York, that fat, lazy piece of dung

 

 

And that is saying something.

 

I would love to turn him into David Savard or a defenseman who could help.

 

I wonder if the Yotes would do a Jake  for Brassard, Demers and IIlya Lyubshkin trade??

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

So I went from Roger Thomas to Rerun.

 

Does that make me old since i didn't need google to know who you were talking about.

 

[CoachX]

10 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

One of my favorite shoulder movements is with kettlebells while sitting flat on the floor with your legs spread out in front of you....wow what a workout.

agreed. Killer exercise...i've incorporated ropes into my routine. Remember me saying my says Im an idiot?

 

[radoran]

7 hours ago, CoachX said:

At one point he was considered top 4 in the league, and at least in the conversation.

 

When? And by who? For how long?

 

For his 102 point season? He was second in the league and made second team All Star. In 2012 and 2014 he was third in the league.

 

So, three times in his career he's been top 4 in scoring... 30% of the past 10 years. In the middle of that he was tapped for all of one game for Team Canada in the World Cup of Hockey.

 

That said, he's been pretty productive over the past month so I don't see "quit" in him.

 

Not sure I feel the same way about the Vee part of the equation...

[radoran]

5 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Maybe whoever posted "get rid of everyone over 28" has the right idea. Say goodbye to some fan favorites and start a true rebuild. Keep Couturier for obvious reasons but that's it.

 

[radoran]

50 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

But he needs to find a way since he is a pro athlete and well your job basically rides on it.

 

Not when you have a guaranteed contract...

 

I've said before that long term deals should be for special players and that a team should be ready to allow another team to make a mistake with a signing.

 

Extending Voracek a year early is right up there with not firing Hakstol in bad Hexy moves.

[RonJeremy]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Does that make me old since i didn't need google to know who you were talking about.

 

Lol, a classic show.

[flyercanuck]

16 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

You can laugh, Homer let that team twist in the wind in his quixotic quest to bring Parise and Suter.

 

 

 

 Can you imagine how bad of shape we'd be in if we also had those two contacts? 

 

 Mind you it may have prevented the JVR/Hayes ones...but I doubt it.

[lynxrattle]

32 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 

 Can you imagine how bad of shape we'd be in if we also had those two contacts? 

 

 Mind you it may have prevented the JVR/Hayes ones...but I doubt it.

I doubt Fletcher would be that crazy .

 

If he didn't realise the effect of the Dynamic Duo back when he was the GM of the Wild, he surely would now, or when he got fired from the Wild.

 

Not that we would mind if someone would take Parise and Suter off our roster. Voracek for Parise and Gostishebere for Suter. It would be a welcome change to puke at a different washed-up, no-Cup veteran, right?

[SCFlyguy]

15 hours ago, radoran said:

I've said before that long term deals should be for special players and that a team should be ready to allow another team to make a mistake with a signing.

 

Extending Voracek a year early is right up there with not firing Hakstol in bad Hexy moves.

You pretty much can't lose just having a rule not to offer 5 year contracts, except perhaps for very young players like what they did with Couturier.

 

The idea that you need to offer more than essentially bridge contracts, because the player might leave or not sign is, imo, dumb.  I am struggling to remember a single player the Flyers developed, got outbid on, and regretted it.  On the other hand, I can remember many contracts the Flyers offered to because they thought they needed to lock up a player that they ended up regretting at some point: Carter, Richards, Briere, Bryz, Hayes, JVR, MacDonald, Jake, Lecavalier (jfc), etc. etc.

[tucson83]

we have to focus on getting talent in the offseason, packaging the youth for young talent and try to get rid of the big contracts and bring up more cheap young players from the phantoms around this young talent, so we have the cap space to spend on a big time player on the block or fa. if that's successful, there's no doubt this team will go in the right direction but we cannot go with the same team next year, it's going to be doomed to fail if we do.

 

we cant overspend on role players, that's what's killing us for years, we have to spend on talent.

 

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by tucson83

[Podein25]

1 hour ago, tucson83 said:

packaging the youth for young talent

 

Trade our young prospects for other young prospects? I don't get that.

[FD19372]

33 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Trade our young prospects for other young prospects? I don't get that.

I don't either because (a) You're subjecting them to the same organizational mindset (b) same on-ice leadership, and (c) we need higher quality, more skilled and more physical veterans than the ones we currently have here.

[OccamsRazor]

4 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

You pretty much can't lose just having a rule not to offer 5 year contracts

 

I agree.

 

The only guys right now i feel comfortable committing to more than that are Hart and Ivan.

[elmatus]

23 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

(jfc)

 

I forget. Was he later traded or just bought out?

[mojo1917]

I got the answer to the topic question.

Stop the puck. No more pucks go through our goalies. 

This team will play better when the goalies stop the puck.

I have faith that the team will play better with the injection of some of these Lascynzki type guys and competent goal tending.

The Flyers' goalies were worst in the league by almost every measurable statistic in March.

I think Hart will turn it around, I think Moose will too.

Those guys begin to stop pucks, and they'll stop having to make miracle saves on 2-0s below the dots.

baby steps, no more pucks through goalies. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by mojo1917

[GratefulFlyers]

3 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I got the answer to the topic question.

Stop the puck. No more pucks go through our goalies. 

This team will play better when the goalies stop the puck.

 

Not sure if your post was sarcastic or not...but I'll reply as if it's not.

 

It's a chicken-and-egg thing right? Flyers play NHL-level team defense and suddenly Hart and Elliot don't look nearly so bad. Hart was prob struggling on his own and Elliot def got over-worked. They both kinda "showed their age" in a way.

 

Because that was spectacularly-bad defense and it was every game. Different names but the same blown coverage the same mistakes and it hasn't been fixed yet. It only looked better vs. the Isles because Hart came up with some big saves. That's what he's supposed to do, sure, but if Flyers' skaters keep giving up odd-man rushes guaranteed Hart will look like he's struggling again. He will be but mostly b/c his team didn't defend their own end.

[mojo1917]

14 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

 

Not sure if your post was sarcastic or not...but I'll reply as if it's not.

 

It's a chicken-and-egg thing right? Flyers play NHL-level team defense and suddenly Hart and Elliot don't look nearly so bad. Hart was prob struggling on his own and Elliot def got over-worked. They both kinda "showed their age" in a way.

 

Because that was spectacularly-bad defense and it was every game. Different names but the same blown coverage the same mistakes and it hasn't been fixed yet. It only looked better vs. the Isles because Hart came up with some big saves. That's what he's supposed to do, sure, but if Flyers' skaters keep giving up odd-man rushes guaranteed Hart will look like he's struggling again. He will be but mostly b/c his team didn't defend their own end.

 

Only half joking.

Young Master Hart had given up some horrendous goals in March.

Many on shots where, he was there- he beat the pass- maybe not all the way square, but the pucks were going through him. 

I don't know the number of the hole between the blocker and the body...in theory there shouldn't be one  But that's where pucks were going, they were getting behind him in the weirdest possible ways.  It looked to me like his confidence was blown to hell and it didn't matter if the opposition was shooting soccer balls at him, he wasn't stopping them.

 

So- what I mean is, if he can stop the ones he should, I think everyone else can play from their toes and not their heels. I think less whiffs on clears, less tightly gripped sticks...when you think every mistake winds up with a faceoff at center ice...how can you take a risk? 

So then you're just playing slow and not to lose, not to make a mistake, and that's how you lose 6-1 and look like an AHL team.

 

if 79 and 37 stop the ones they should, I think we'll see a better looking team.

so I think egg.

Edited April 5, 2021 by mojo1917

[GratefulFlyers]

20 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

 

Only half joking.

Young Master Hart had given up some horrendous goals in March.

...

if 79 and 37 stop the ones they should, I think we'll see a better looking team.

so I think egg.

 

Ha ya he did have his WTF moments. Goals aside some of his decisions clearing the puck were mind-boggling. The pressure was obviously overwhelming him - AV made a smart move not dressing him for a week, giving him time to reset.

 

He looked pretty dialed-in to me on Saturday. Whether he's over his struggles or not...time will tell.

Edited April 5, 2021 by GratefulFlyers
sp