What is wrong with the Flyers and how do you fix it?

[OccamsRazor]

17 minutes ago, elmatus said:

He doesn’t have the skill level to provide what we need most right now. 

 

You maybe right. But he put up back to back 80 point season in the Q.

 

For example Nate McKinnon never put up 80 points in the Q just for comparison.

 

Not saying he is Nate (because i know someone will read this and say that is what i'm saying) but with better line mates and being left there say on the second line RW spot who knows what he can do he has maybe the 2nd or 3rd best shot on the Flyers i think.

 

He just doesn't use it very much.

[CoachX]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I agree.

 

He'd have to prove otherwise and if he did good for him.

 

But this team has bigger issues they need to resolve.

 

When he is on his game he is exactly what the team needs more of from their bottom six.

Wouldn't it be nice though, if a player like him performed at a level that made him "not a problem"? When you have a $hit-ton of huge problems, one less makes it that much easier to manage

[elmatus]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

For example Nate McKinnon never put up 80 points in the Q just for comparison.

 

 

I remember when MacKinnon played for the WJC team... he was amazing. There really was no doubt he was going to be a stud, and it wasn't surprising when he was picked first overall.

 

There could be tons of reasons why a guy like NAK had more pts than a far more skilled MacKinnon. At the end of the day though, that's definitely not going to be a good comparison. If anything, all that proves is that potting a bunch in junior is not the only yardstick of note.

 

Another player I remember owning the Q was Conor Garland, who put up amazing pts in junior. Despite that, he wasn't seen as a top pick, and he hasn't become any kind of franchise player either. He's alright, just like NAK is alright, but he's not going to anchor a team despite having been amazing in juniors.

 

tl;dr version: Juniors can be an okay predictor of NHL success, but it's definitely not a straightforward comparison. The NHL is ripe with piles of players who were great in juniors and mid to bottom six once they hit the big leagues.

[OccamsRazor]

30 minutes ago, elmatus said:

If anything, all that proves is that potting a bunch in junior is not the only yardstick of note.

 

Sure as well as NOT being productive in juniors really guarantees nothing as well.

 

Projection is not an exact science...in any sport.  A roll of the dice no matter where you pick.

 

It's like horseshoes the higher pick just means you're throwing closer to the target is all.

 

There by hopefully increasing your chances of hitting is all. But you can still miss.

[flyercanuck]

5 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

You maybe right. But he put up back to back 80 point season in the Q.

 

For example Nate McKinnon never put up 80 points in the Q just for comparison.

 

Not saying he is Nate (because i know someone will read this and say that is what i'm saying) but with better line mates and being left there say on the second line RW spot who knows what he can do he has maybe the 2nd or 3rd best shot on the Flyers i think.

 

He just doesn't use it very much.

 

MacKinnon put up 75 points in 44 games as a 17 year old in the Q. He put up 63 points as an 18 year old in the NHL.

 

NAK put up his 80 point seasons in 61 games as a 19 and 20 year old.

 

NAK looked like a very good junior when he was 19/20. . MacKinnon looked NHL ready when he was 17

Edited May 19, 2021 by flyercanuck

[CoachX]

NAK lloked pretty good last season when he was trying to become a regular in the NHL. This season, he looked irregular in the NHL.

 

I wouldn't trade him for a bucket of used piss

[OccamsRazor]

58 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

MacKinnon put up 75 points in 44 games as a 17 year old in the Q. He put up 63 points as an 18 year old in the NHL.

 

NAK put up his 80 point seasons in 61 games as a 19 and 20 year old.

 

NAK looked like a very good junior when he was 19/20. . MacKinnon looked NHL ready when he was 17

 

Sure McKinnon had Drouin too....which superstar did NAK have???

[flyercanuck]

9 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Sure McKinnon had Drouin too....which superstar did NAK have???

 

That's very true,,though MacKinnon won MVP when the Mooseheads won the Memorial Cup, not Drouin.

 

 NAK played on a very good Val D'or team also... though he wasn't THE guy on his team. They won the QMJHL championship, with Anthony Mantha, but lost in the Memorial.

[OccamsRazor]

7 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 NAK played on a very good Val D'or team also... though he wasn't THE guy on his team. They won the QMJHL championship, with Anthony Mantha, but lost in the Memorial.

 

Yes but NAK played on their second line and Mantha played with Marcotte and Henley on the top line.

 

I can't remember who was on the second line other than the Anthony Richards kid.

 

Either way my point still stands, if they were to ask NAK to play more of a scoring role in the NHL i think he could be up to the task if given better linemates in which to do this with.

 

It's not like he has hands of stone he has one of the best shots on the team.

 

But as of now he just has to get back to playing sound discipline hokey like AV wants.

 

If he does that who knows what could be in store for him. And as we have said they have way bigger issues than NAK.

[OccamsRazor]

Well here is a good reason to me to bring this kid back. Shouldn't cost much either.

 

Sam Morin wants to be the enforcer that the Flyers need

https://phillyhockeynow.com/2021/05/20/philadelphia-flyers-sam-morin-exit-interview-enforcer-toughest-guy-in-the-league/

 

The perfect bottom pair guy worst case slide him to the 7th if need be. If not who else is going to help in this area...someone needs to police the Wilsons of the NHL. Time to toughen up some.

[FD19372]

11 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Well here is a good reason to me to bring this kid back. Shouldn't cost much either.

 

Sam Morin wants to be the enforcer that the Flyers need

https://phillyhockeynow.com/2021/05/20/philadelphia-flyers-sam-morin-exit-interview-enforcer-toughest-guy-in-the-league/

 

The perfect bottom pair guy worst case slide him to the 7th if need be. If not who else is going to help in this area...someone needs to police the Wilsons of the NHL. Time to toughen up some.

Who on this roster, defensively, is going to show him how to play? They need more physical players back there, and of course, up front. I mean Provorov can be that guy, but it's not really his game. I want a more seasoned veteran than Provorov, showing this kid how to play and use his abilities, at the NHL level

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, FD19372 said:

Who on this roster, defensively, is going to show him how to play?

 

The coaches. It's what they get paid to do. But he can learn on the job. But they need a vet too.

 

I thought he did pretty well this past year considering he hasn't played in a long time. Sure things he needs to work on.

 

He played better than Phil Myers so who is going to teach the Charmin twins to place defense is my biggest concern.

 

But not sure Ivan would be able to teach while on the actual ice because well that would mean he is in the top pair and he is not ready for that.

 

But on the bottom pair i am good with him playing through his learning curve.

 

But he will be able to play vs the heavy teams in the NHL i think so as to police the ice when needed.

[FD19372]

4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

The coaches. It's what they get paid to do. But he can learn on the job. But they need a vet too.

 

I thought he did pretty well this past year considering he hasn't played in a long time. Sure things he needs to work on.

 

He played better than Phil Myers so who is going to teach the Charmin twins to place defense is my biggest concern.

 

But not sure Ivan would be able to teach while on the actual ice because well that would mean he is in the top pair and he is not ready for that.

 

But on the bottom pair i am good with him playing through his learning curve.

 

But he will be able to play vs the heavy teams in the NHL i think so as to police the ice when needed.

If they could sign David Savard in the summer, he would be ideal. I know he makes $4.25 mil, but he would be worth it.

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

Well here is a good reason to me to bring this kid back. Shouldn't cost much either.

 

Sam Morin wants to be the enforcer that the Flyers need

https://phillyhockeynow.com/2021/05/20/philadelphia-flyers-sam-morin-exit-interview-enforcer-toughest-guy-in-the-league/

 

The perfect bottom pair guy worst case slide him to the 7th if need be. If not who else is going to help in this area...someone needs to police the Wilsons of the NHL. Time to toughen up some.

WHy wouldn't the Flyers keep the kid. From what I saw he was definitely as good as guys regularly playing in the bottom pair. None of them can bring what he can, and you can't coach them to do it. However, he already has that enforcer intangible, and you can teach him to play better

 

Hagg. Ghost. Braun... I'd play him over any of those three

[tucson83]

wtf for crying out loud:

 

does this guy watch games or is he too busy admiring his beard? like seriously, defending players like this is what really irritates me, i just dont get it. i never once my years of watching this team i never seen so much defending of players that dont show up, i mean has this fanbase and some media members have really lost touch of reality and actually accepted mediocrity because of that cup loss in 2010? it seems like defending the core, blaming the coaches, and accepted mediocrity is what this type of culture we have become.

 

i never gave up on this team winning a championship and im sure alot on here havent, it just seems like the mass majority of them have given up on focusing championships, it's like it's about the players and prospects they like regardless of how bad they play and not about how are we going to win a championship and end this 47 year drought.

[Cheesesteak]

1 hour ago, tucson83 said:

wtf for crying out loud:

 

does this guy watch games or is he too busy admiring his beard? like seriously, defending players like this is what really irritates me, i just dont get it. i never once my years of watching this team i never seen so much defending of players that dont show up, i mean has this fanbase and some media members have really lost touch of reality and actually accepted mediocrity because of that cup loss in 2010? it seems like defending the core, blaming the coaches, and accepted mediocrity is what this type of culture we have become.

 

i never gave up on this team winning a championship and im sure alot on here havent, it just seems like the mass majority of them have given up on focusing championships, it's like it's about the players and prospects they like regardless of how bad they play and not about how are we going to win a championship and end this 47 year drought.

RIGHT!  It seems like that "participation trophy" mentality has taken over, UGH

[tucson83]

1 hour ago, Cheesesteak said:

RIGHT!  It seems like that "participation trophy" mentality has taken over, UGH

 yeah i miss the days of going to games of fans yelling at players richards you suck, carter you suck.

 

everytime giroux, jake, ghost dont shoot the puck, i just want to break my tv like seriously you are vets, a coach doesnt have to tell to you to shoot the puck, it's like watching ben simmons everytime has a lane to the basket he doesnt shoot it he passes it out of bounds.

Edited May 20, 2021 by tucson83

[OccamsRazor]

Watching these other teams bluelines work the other teams forward shows just how soft the Flyers have become.

 

Sure they have size and can skate but they are so passive in their own end when it comes to pressuring the puck....that is when they aren't totally confused and trying to find the puck.

 

Even if they made it they would be swept the first round.  A lot of room to get better.

[mojo1917]

12 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Even if they made it they would be swept the first round.  A lot of room to get better.

playing the way they finished the season, no question.

 

Had they played well enough to make the playoffs?

We'd have to imagine many of the team's issues we saw this season would have been corrected. 

So perhaps more confident players play more aggressively? with more physicality and pace?

 

I think the difference between being an okay team and a really good team isn't huge.

The gap from really good to complete is smaller still and maybe requires outside the box thinking ala  Tampa's LITR manipulation.

 

a top 4 RHD, a big guy with some snarl and skill for the middle 6, and a guy that will shoot.  That's what I want to see coming in.

I don't care what goes out to make that happen.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

12 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

a big guy with some snarl and skill for the middle 6

 

Trade Ghost for Lucic. There is your snarl. He is the type of forward they need.

 

Have the Flames pick up 750K and you have an even swap. Both two years left.

 

What say you??? I know some don't like him but he put up 10 goals and 23 points.

 

That would have been top 9 at forward for the Flyers. Hey just saying...

[mojo1917]

@OccamsRazor

I've never liked Lucic, I think he's too old and a too big of a douche.

 

I would love Brandon Tanev in that spot, or if we're going old Nick Bonino.

 

Flyer4ever likes Lawson Crouse, I don't know if he's got the all around game that I'm hoping for... I don't know much about him. 

There are guys around that can be had for just money. Sam Bennett has looked great for the 'cats. 

That team has a lot of good tough to play players. 

Zito and Tallon have done a good job down there.

 

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

There are guys around that can be had for just money. Sam Bennett has looked great for the 'cats. 

 

You're going to have to trade for him he is a RFA and the Panthers gave up a 2nd and a solid prospect for him so it won't be cheap.

 

Lucic is what the Flyers need and if you could turn Ghost into him i say it would be worth a try.

 

Tanev is signed for 4 more years and i doubt Ron wants to trade him to a rival.

 

Crouse is an ok guy trying to figure it all out still the Flyers have enough of that right now.

 

They need a vet to come in and lead the way type.

 

Of all those guys Bonino is the only guy you can just sign be he will be 34. Is he still up for the task??

 

Seems like he would want to be on a team closer to a Cup run. Guess you can kick the tires.

[mojo1917]

@OccamsRazor

I didn't know a lot of that. I thought Bennett was an UFA.

Also, Rutherford did well lock Tanev up for a long time.

I thought he was on year 2 of a 3 year deal for some reason.

Good player. That's the guy I'd want. 

 

I've never thought I'd see Milan Lucic and need in the same sentence from Flyers fans, yet here we are.

 

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I've never thought I'd see Milan Lucic and need in the same sentence from Flyers fans, yet here we are.

 

Well if you want a guy who will be physical finish checks and pursue the puck and stick up for his team mates he checks all the boxes.

 

Sure he will need to be reeled in a little bit but i would rather have to tame a lion than paint stipes on a kitty any day.

 

Anther guy i like is Brandon Saad if the Avs don't resign him.

 

Casey Cizikas is another i like if the Isles let him walk.

 

Brock Mcginn as well if he isn't resigned.

[flyer4ever]

Without hurting anyone's feelings, I can't believe how many people are saying we need a veteran on this topic. That approach hasn't worked for anyone since the salary cap. Veteran equals slow, soft, and cap crunch. It also equals dysfunction in the room. I think thats obvious after this season. The Flyers are not one or 2 vets away, they are 2 or 3 dmen and 2 lines away, if the goalie returns to form. Tampa is not a fast team, they are an all for 1 team with hockey smarts.  Bigger, younger, faster is the way to go, and if it takes a year or 3 so be it. Drafting 14th also won't get it done. Ottawa was a great team to watch this year, the Flyers were by far the most boring, and they are closer to a cup than the Flyers. A vet or 2 gives us more of the same. Making the playoffs in the 8 seed is a fools errand, we have all seen that lousy movie frequently. Time to try a different approach, 46 years was a long time ago.