OccamsRazor Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 12 minutes ago, radoran said: Nashville would probably swap Johansen for him, but that's not "progress" for the Flyers and probably not where he wants to go. I would they do a Voracek for Johansen swap??? I would do this. I know the Flyers would be getting a contract that is a year longer...but to not see the Ginger floater out there in orange and black i would do this. 13 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: They are "the leaders". Sometimes you can be a "leader" all you want but if no one really follows you are you then really a leader??? Seems that is where the Flyers are at. 14 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: The player mix is bad, they are not playing like a unit or for each other. Well we have found at least one thing we all can agree on. Now how do we fix it?? 15 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: Too many dudes are checked out though and a change is needed. This is the only way i think. It is time. You can't beat the Sabres no way in hell you beat the Isles and Bruins coming up....so why wait strip it down...even if you have to take pennies on the dollar i can't take this anymore. 4 hours ago, pilldoc said: Flyers given up 75 goals this past month to the tune of 4.4 allowed per game. How does a group collectively turn into what we see now from what we saw this past playoff run. Even when the Flyers lost Pronger or Kimmo they never faltered this bad like the loss of Niskanen. Maybe Nisky smelled the stench at the end and decided it wasn't worth risking covid for this trash team.....he is looking like a genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Digityman Posted April 1, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 1, 2021 (edited) I think by now it's pretty safe to say the following: They all didn't just forget how to play hockey. AV didn't forget how to coach - his system worked last year, it's shown glimpses of working this year. The kids had skills 12 months ago, they still have skills now. They didn't just misplace their 'skills'. This is not Chuck's fault. Yes it would have been nice to get a Dman for Ivan but there wasn't much available at the time. Hindsight, I wish he pulled the trigger on a trade if it was possible. So what's left for possible reasons for this sh!tshow?: There is some kind of feud between players: Vets vs Kids, Hayes gave someone a bad nickname now they hate him...who knows Coaches lost the room: Maybe they are all tired from so many games, with AV's up-tempo style they just can't keep up and they all need naps. Thus resulting in over-tired kids complaining about their parents coaches. Rift between the coaches causing factions: Hey it's possible. All 3 were/are NHL head coaches and I bet all think they know how to fix what's happening. Some players buy in to each coach and Lord of the Flies ensues. The players are just tired from this grueling schedule: This is completely possible. I know my wife is tired of me saying "sorry, Flyers are on" the past 1.5 months. She asked if they are on every day now. So maybe, just maybe the players just have nothing left in the tank. No preseason, maybe little training, COVID break....all that leads to crappy play due to fatigue. Then that fatigue leads to sh!tty play and fissures in the room. The team as assembled isn't as good as they showed last year: It's entirely possible that this team as assembled is a playoff bubble team. Aging vets, young kids still learning and are still getting used to the NHL gruel, crappy goaltending.... It's a combination that is entirely possible. Not to say that two or three key pieces could be added/removed, the goaltending recovers to average or better and this team is fighting for the division lead. Am I missing any? My ranking in order of possibility is 4, 5, 1, 2, 3. Edited April 1, 2021 by Digityman 5 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucson83 Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: I've been typing ideas similar to this for a long time. This is nicely put. Those two were just good enough to keep the team from being terrible over the last 10 years. They've played on dreadful teams, if they sucked worse maybe the team would be better today because of better draft positions. The monkeys at the top of the tree are the ones to take aim at. the problem with tanking is that you have to get lucky to get the first overall pick and you dont know if you are drafting nolan patrick and jvr again like it's not the way to build this team, you have to build it by getting assets which is one thing that hextall has done right and trade them to get proven talent like for instance, johnny hockey, laine, etc. we need young star like talent we can get build around now, not hope to draft one because we could be the oilers of suckage which you dont want to be that team either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said: I would do this. I know the Flyers would be getting a contract that is a year longer...but to not see the Ginger floater out there in orange and black i would do this. So a blonde floater then? 2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: How does a group collectively turn into what we see now from what we saw this past playoff run. Even when the Flyers lost Pronger or Kimmo they never faltered this bad like the loss of Niskanen There were veteran players on those teams, I mean Timonen picked up the slack for Pronger. With this group, the young guys are all the same age and the veterans can't stay in the lineup. When the going gets bad they don't have that guy that can go play solid shift. They all get their periods at once. It's a bad situation, we don't have any answers for it. It sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 12 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: I've been typing ideas similar to this for a long time. This is nicely put. Those two were just good enough to keep the team from being terrible over the last 10 years. They've played on dreadful teams, if they sucked worse maybe the team would be better today because of better draft positions. The monkeys at the top of the tree are the ones to take aim at. Giroux and Boracek would not be a problem if they were secondary type of leaders instead of C and A. If we had guys like Briere, Richards, Pronger and Timmo, leading the team, then G and Jake could just concentrate on playing and not have to deal withall the other stuff which their personalities are not suited for. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucson83 Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: So a blonde floater then? There were veteran players on those teams, I mean Timonen picked up the slack for Pronger. With this group, the young guys are all the same age and the veterans can't stay in the lineup. When the going gets bad they don't have that guy that can go play solid shift. They all get their periods at once. It's a bad situation, we don't have any answers for it. It sucks. the way for this to work, is that you figure out how to get rid of the bad contracts and you bring in proven talent from other teams. you need at least 5 great players im talking about consistent talented players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 @tucson83 If there is a person on this site that thinks tanking is a terrible idea more than I do, I haven't met them. You make great points there. Draft pick magic beans may create giant bean stalks but they can also be eaten by crows and yield nothing. I am glad I'm not the person in charge of trying to fix whatever is wrong. It seems like it's "a lot". 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizz Posted April 1, 2021 Author Share Posted April 1, 2021 3 hours ago, CoachX said: Recognize what the real problem is. Talk to your coach, since you chose him. Find out what he thinks the problem and solution are. Then get him the pieces he says he needs. At this point, his proven ability to coach winning teams should be enough of a resume to trust his decisions. Move players like JVR, Jake and Giroux. Sign at least one veteran defenseman. Other role players like Laughton, Patrick, Raffl, NAK are all available. Once AV is given a core group he can work with, and input on other players he thinks will work, I think the team will succeed. If it doesn't, then guess what, you would then be right. It would be his fault Ok I get your point, but how do you move players no one want's? What team would want G at 9 mil a year? How do you know that conversation hasn't happened between Fletcher and AV? I would wager it has. In a flat cap era you can't give away players or retain salary imo. It's a mess right now and maybe firing AV is not the answer but if Fletcher wants to save his own job he better be looking at doing it or they both will be on the unemployment line. The Fletcher/AV experiment has been a failure so far. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 25 minutes ago, Digityman said: I know my wife is tired of me saying "sorry, Flyers are on" the past 1.5 months. She asked if they are on every day now Fire the wife! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digityman Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 1 minute ago, Podein25 said: Fire the wife! She read this over my shoulder. You're screwed. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, Digityman said: She read this over my shoulder. You're screwed. If its any consolation my wife calls herself a hockey widow during the NHL Season ....LOL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 10 minutes ago, Digityman said: She read this over my shoulder. You're screwed. Haven't you watched Lifetime movies? That never ends well for the man. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 20 minutes ago, Fizz said: The Fletcher/AV Giroux/Voracek experiment has been a failure so far for nine years. Fixed it for you. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 20 minutes ago, Fizz said: Ok I get your point, but how do you move players no one want's? What team would want G at 9 mil a year? How do you know that conversation hasn't happened between Fletcher and AV? I would wager it has. In a flat cap era you can't give away players or retain salary imo. It's a mess right now and maybe firing AV is not the answer but if Fletcher wants to save his own job he better be looking at doing it or they both will be on the unemployment line. The Fletcher/AV experiment has been a failure so far. We have no choice but to give up a prospect or pick, plus pay some salary to get rid of Jake. If there was ever a time JVR is most valuable ,it’s now, he is the only big contract we might be able to trade, if not pray Seattle takes him. Let G know we are not re-signing him , so he has a few options ,we can try and trade him to a contender or a preferred location or he can finish his last season in Philly as a disgruntled player if he denies our request. That’s at least 2 bad contracts we can shed and at worst, one more year for G. He might accept a trade at next years deadline for a Cup run, the other teams would not have a problem because we would have paid most of his salary for the year and they could have him for a Cup run. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizz Posted April 1, 2021 Author Share Posted April 1, 2021 1 hour ago, mojo1917 said: No see, the idea is where would he waive his NMC to play? He's not waiving to go to rebuild, I guarantee that. He's going to Ontario, maybe or to a team with a chance to win. He's not going to Arizona. That's what where I'm coming from. The big think is you have to have a team that wants him first, and I can't see any team wanting a 9 mil 3rd line center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 51 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: So a blonde floater then? Sure it is change...but my man if you can find a better option i'm all ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 53 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: the veterans can't stay in the lineup. Not following this what vets can't stay in the lineup or has been scratched?? Please explain. And the big 3 vets on this team was there when they went through losing those guys so you're telling me they don't have the memory of what was done and now what to do well then they sounds pretty useless to me, i mean isn't that part of their justification of being on the roster...they are "vets" and well if they can't help now then why have them?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 (edited) One of the big 3 (cough cough), at least by contract, have to go. I hope it isn't Hayes. For the 1000th time, they NEED a veteran defenseman above else here. Whatever it takes. No player on this team should be untouchable, and it is the fault of the higher ups for giving these players, like Giroux..the power to chose where they want to go. #PhillyHockeyClubMed. Thanks, Ed Snider and his disciples. Edited April 1, 2021 by FD19372 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, FD19372 said: I hope it isn't Hayes. Yeah on this sh it show my 3rd leading goal scorer gets a pass...there are other bigger issues at hand. The Ginger floater is in my crosshairs as the one guy to start with on showing the door. Giroux we can well reconvene on by next year's trade deadline. I hope and pray JVR is snagged by the Kraken. So NO Jake and JVR is a nice start to 2021-22. Edited April 1, 2021 by OccamsRazor bourbon isn't working 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digityman Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 14 minutes ago, FD19372 said: One of the big 3 (cough cough), at least by contract, have to go. I hope it isn't Hayes I don't disagree with you. Any of the 4 for me. Giroux, Jake, Hayes, JVR. But I can't see Fletch selling off the big name splash he made happen. I could see the other 3 happening before Hayes. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 3 hours ago, mojo1917 said: So a good landing spot for Giroux? How about Colorado ? try to get that Newhook kid in the deal. He might waive to go there, that's a good team, he'll be able to penalty kill take draws and "Richards" his way to a cup. Send Jake to Calgary or Dallas. Try to sign Montour as a Free agent? I don't think all of our young players suck, I do think they all took a step back for various reasons. I'm not ready to pull the plug on the lot of them. This team as constructed is bad and it needs changed though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 2 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said: Giroux, Voracek are not to blame for this mess. The consensus of the board seems to be that Giroux and Voracek are "cancers" or something equally bad. Why? Supposedly the Flyers "changed everything" over the last decade except for Giroux and Voracek and the crappy results speak for themselves. If it was true the Flyers "changed everything" other than 2 players you answered your own question 2 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said: But let's be real we can't know what kinda leaders they are, or who's contradicting or supporting them, either out loud or on the sly. Judging "leadership" from afar doesn't work imho. Any conclusions you draw from it may be entirely wrong. except we can see it on the ice. Give me an example of where you see, or saw, either of these two do something that shows they are on ice performers and leaders 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Podein25 said: Fire the wife! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 1 hour ago, pilldoc said: If its any consolation my wife calls herself a hockey widow during the NHL Season ....LOL my wife's pet name for me is "idiot". Its soo cute. She loves me 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, CoachX said: my wife's pet name for me is "idiot". Its soo cute. She loves me Sounds like a very smart lady. How did you nab her? Chloroform? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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