BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 1 minute ago, CoachX said: Correct me if I'm wrong, was it you that was just complaining that AV should be fired, in part becasue he publicly called out young players? Good post though. I would love to see a full rebuild....starting with a trade for a true number 1 defenseman Let's talk about Vigneault calling out the kids. Do you notice he doesn't do that to the veterans in the club? When's the last time he's called or Giroux or Voracek or Hayes for dogging it? When's the last time he's called out Braun for a missed assignment or Hagg for being statistically betting the worst defenseman in the game? He hasn't. But heaven forbid Phil Myers has a stretch of rough games in only his first full season. Watch out because Phil's the problem. Or how about how he's shown no concern for Hart's mental health when EVERYONE knew something wasn't right with him. Vigneault buried his head in the sand and said Hart wasn't cutting it. He embarrassed the kids when he could have said "we know something isn't right, we're giving Hart some time off to collect himself and work through some things." Or how about when he benched Konecny who was going through a rough start and basically held him responsible for the rest of team's poor play. That's not calling out. That's scapegoating. And Vigneault has done that everywhere he's been. This is also the same coach who said he had no clue what's going on with the club and they weren't performing. That's his responsibility as a coach to know that. Vigneault takes no responsibility when things go sidewards. As for sheltering, look no further than Wade Allison and Cam York and their debuts. The Flyers were out of the playoffs and he could have easily seen how easy they were by playing them a lot. Instead, Allison got a shade over 4th line ice time and York got number six minutes. How does that benefit them? It doesn't. And that's the problem in Philadelphia - gotta keep these kids in bottom six roles before they can breakout. And why? Because veterans, even when the club is eliminated from post season play. Hey, when Vigneault was hired, I had high hopes. When I was a young man, I used to live close to Gatineau and I'd go see the Hull Olympiques when he was the head coach and that team was so good, offensively and defensively. Yet he's completely abandoned that type of hockey for a **** dump and chase system that's easy to defend against and when you consider that his forte at one time was working with young players, he's now basically adjusted to throwing them under the bus when things don't work. I don't get it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 36 minutes ago, CoachX said: As for the suggested trade, I like it better than one giving up TK/Frost. In looking at it, what is being given up. Laughton? Ok, he can be replaced. Patrick? I could replace him and I don't now how many laces are in my skates. Myers? Good player who had a bad year. Up until this particular trade scenario he was getting lambasted on this forum as being soft and sucky. He will never be Jones. So for me, the unknown of a draft pick is the only real loss. And since you would be moving 3 contracts, you get some cap to help sign him. I'm with you on the package vs. TK/Frost. There's no one on the list that I wouldn't move (though, I'm not one of those who was beating up Myers, but in general you're right about the forum). My problem is piling all of them into one trade--even for someone I'd be on board with. Because now you have to move into the TK/Frost group if you want to make any other moves for anyone of value. For me, it's using all of my "free" (for lack of a better term) bullets on one need rather than using across a couple trades. Especially if we're also throwing in the 1st rounder (a requirement, if I'm Columbus). I just think it's the wrong move for the wrong player. I do think you have a point with the "how he's being used" thought on Seth Jones. There's probably some of that. Actually, I cannot imagine there isn't. But I don't think this organization has any history of taking someone clearly struggling with another organization and then making them better. I have case studies upon case studies of taking someone playing well and destroying them. And I have case history of players struggling here and go elsewhere and suddenly remembering how to play. But not what we're trading away with the hope of that suddenly happening with Jones. Good post, Coach. Stay thirsty, my friend! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 16 minutes ago, CoachX said: I would love to see a full rebuild....starting with a trade for a true number 1 defenseman Here's the thing though - you very seldom see number one defensemen traded. In most cases, true number one defensemen are developed or for some reason, they make it to free agency. The last time I remember a number one defenseman being traded was Shea Weber to Montreal and even then, a lot of people felt that Weber's best days were behind him and that Subban was a scapegoat because his coach at the time didn't like him (and I believe said coach is currently an assistant in Philadelphia). Nope, I don't make a trade for any number one defender. Oh, thought I'd point this out. There's a rumor that the Flyers are taking to the Coyotes about possibly acquiring Victor Soderstrom. He's the guy I wanted the Flyers to draft when they ended up taking York. I really like Soderstrom and think he can be a legitimate right handed shut down defenseman. Incredibly smart, great wheels and just thinks the game really well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: Let's talk about Vigneault calling out the kids. Do you notice he doesn't do that to the veterans in the club? When's the last time he's called or Giroux or Voracek or Hayes for dogging it? AV quotes: “It starts with their leadership, their involvement in making sure that everybody is dialed in, tuned in,” Vigneault explained. “That goes from Kevin Hayes to Jake (Voracek) to (Claude Giroux) to (Sean Couturier). Those are the guys that we look to for guidance. When I say we, I’m a teammate in this room. I want those guys to step up and show us the way. He called out the Flyers’ line of James van Riemsdyk, Giroux and Voracek, saying they needed to “figure it out” “All those guys, I love Kevin Hayes as a person, James and Jake, I’m starting to know they’re great people,” Alain Vigneault said after Monday’s practice. “I need more from the hockey player. Two different distinctions, right? The person and the hockey player. Those three guys, I need more from the hockey player. I know that they want to do well. “We’re 20 games in — it’s time, you know? And I’m not telling you anything that I haven’t told them. Obviously, they feel pressure, but that’s why they (get) paid the big bucks. You’ve got to deliver, you’ve got to produce and we expect those guys to produce.” “I talked to Jake about this. I challenged him about this season. There’s a man who’s been in the league for a long time,” Vigneault said. “Basically, he’s won two playoff rounds.” ”I think there are a lot of young players pushing him,” the coach said. “He’s going to have to earn that ice time that he’s been able to get the last few years.” “I do agree that he is getting older. . .he’s got an opportunity now that we’re in pause to take these next months and really work at his conditioning and probably find the time to slow (the aging process).’’ Giroux has played in 889 regular-season games and has missed only about a dozen possible starts over his career. At some point, that’s bound to take a toll. “He’s getting older,’’ Vigneault said. “As you get older, the muscles don’t react as quick. But you can work on that. He’s going to have to put in a lot of time and effort.’’ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: Let's talk about Vigneault calling out the kids. Do you notice he doesn't do that to the veterans in the club? When's the last time he's called or Giroux or Voracek or Hayes for dogging it? When's the last time he's called out Braun for a missed assignment or Hagg for being statistically betting the worst defenseman in the game? He hasn't. When was the last time ANY of their head coachers called out the veterans such as Jake the Fake and Giroux for dogging it? They didn't, or at least I highly doubt it, because Club Snider and Sons would fire that head coach. I'll bet ya it was Craig Berube, and he got canned, although we can debate all day, whether or not it was a good move to can Chief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, FD19372 said: When was the last time ANY of their head coachers called out the veterans such as Jake the Fake and Giroux for dogging it? They didn't, or at least I highly doubt it, because Club Snider and Sons would fire that head coach. I'll bet ya it was Craig Berube, and he got canned, although we can debate all day, whether or not it was a good move to can Chief. please see my above posted AV quotes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 24 minutes ago, CoachX said: this is a great point. one that should be seriously considered, and probably would be if this scenario has any reality to it. It's kinda like the same question, would Patrick be better somewhere else roll the dice! Do you think he is worth 8.8 mill per year like he wants is the first question that needs to be answered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Do you think he is worth 8.8 mill per year like he wants is the first question that needs to be answered. If they can make it work, yes. From fan POV, I don't worry about the money situation. These GM's always find a way. I prefer to go at this from the perspective that a guy like Jones, could be an impact player for the next 8 years. I think that makes him 35. Of course, the probability is that I'm totally wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 19 minutes ago, CoachX said: These GM's always find a way Yeah by trading away other guys because they can't afford to sign them now. Not what I want. He isn't worth that type of money in my eyes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 @OccamsRazor I get your thinking. And honestly, you follow these things closer than I. You prolly have a better take on it. I'm just tired of this Flyer team. If moving parts and paying more to get out of a hole dug by someone else will bring in a new era, I'm a happy fan I watched the Isles/Tampa game last night. I remember Flyer teams playing with that kind of fire. I want it back. I won't get it with this team 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 1 hour ago, CoachX said: Of course, the probability is that I'm totally wrong [THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK] 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 5 hours ago, CoachX said: These GM's always find a way. Yes, you're right. Our last 3 GMs found a way to sign McDud to a 5 year $25 Million contract, psycho Bryz to a 9 year $51 Million dollar contract, Voracek to a $8.25 for seems like eternity contract, will he try or won't he JVR to a 5 year $35 million one, and mediocre Kevin Hayes to a almost eternity 7 year $7 million per deal. Gee I can't wait for the Fletcher to 'find a way" to overpay Jones. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 9 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Yes, you're right. Our last 3 GMs found a way to sign McDud to a 5 year $25 Million contract, psycho Bryz to a 9 year $51 Million dollar contract, Voracek to a $8.25 for seems like eternity contract, will he try or won't he JVR to a 5 year $35 million one, and mediocre Kevin Hayes to a almost eternity 7 year $7 million per deal. Gee I can't wait for the Fletcher to 'find a way" to overpay Jones. me either! I have tremendous faith in him 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) 38 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Yes, you're right. Our last 3 GMs found a way to sign McDud to a 5 year $25 Million contract, psycho Bryz to a 9 year $51 Million dollar contract, Voracek to a $8.25 for seems like eternity contract, will he try or won't he JVR to a 5 year $35 million one, and mediocre Kevin Hayes to a almost eternity 7 year $7 million per deal. Gee I can't wait for the Fletcher to 'find a way" to overpay Jones. I'll call it right now. If they deal for Jones, I'm expecting them to hand him a 7 year/$66.5 million deal AAV $9.5 million per year Edited June 16, 2021 by BobbyClarkeFan16 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 23 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: I'll call it right now. If they deal for Jones, I'm expecting them to hand him a 7 year/$66.5 million deal AAV $9.5 million per year i don't think it will be that high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, CoachX said: i don't think it will be that high We're taking about Schmuck Felcher and Nature Boy Brent Flahr. Nothing surprises me with those two dopes running the show. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 10 hours ago, CoachX said: If they can make it work, yes. From fan POV, I don't worry about the money situation. These GM's always find a way. Lol, no they don't. Why do you think Hextall had to focus on the draft and fill out the roster with a bunch of scrubs? Because guys like MacDonald were making $5M/yr. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindbergh31 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 18 hours ago, flyercanuck said: Yes, you're right. Our last 3 GMs found a way to sign McDud to a 5 year $25 Million contract, psycho Bryz to a 9 year $51 Million dollar contract, Voracek to a $8.25 for seems like eternity contract, will he try or won't he JVR to a 5 year $35 million one, and mediocre Kevin Hayes to a almost eternity 7 year $7 million per deal. Gee I can't wait for the Fletcher to 'find a way" to overpay Jones. I'm not sure what Fletcher will do when it comes to the defense but one thing for sure, we as fans won't like it because he always seems to **** things up. Hopefully won't be the coach of this team after this coming season or sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, Lindbergh31 said: I'm not sure what Fletcher will do when it comes to the defense but one thing for sure, we as fans won't like it because he always seems to **** things up For example? ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 52 minutes ago, CoachX said: For example? ..... Braun. Gus. Hayes. York looks like a good pick...but passing on Krebs, Caufield and Newhook? He hasn't been as terrible as I expected but he also has hardly done anything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) 37 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Braun. Gus. Hayes. York looks like a good pick...but passing on Krebs, Caufield and Newhook? He hasn't been as terrible as I expected but he also has hardly done anything. I have no problems passing on Krebs, Caulfield and Newhook. Krebs suffered that Achilles tear and when your game is based on speed, that's a particularly bad injury to overcome. As for Caulfield, the Flyers drafted a Caulfield type in Brink. As for Newhook, I'm not sold. York is turning out to be a great pick and his cold as ice and calm demeanor on the ice is exactly what the defense needs. Nothing rattles him. Having that calming influence is gig to be huge. Edited June 17, 2021 by BobbyClarkeFan16 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 1 hour ago, flyercanuck said: Braun. Gus. Hayes. York looks like a good pick...but passing on Krebs, Caufield and Newhook? He hasn't been as terrible as I expected but he also has hardly done anything. I agree. He hasn't done much. And I don't think he's been terrible, awful or idiotic. On Hayes: first season looked like a good signing. I get the money argument. Last season, "Purple" Hayes looked stoned, but he had an injury. Maybe that was the real cause. On Gus: bad signing. It was acknowledged and he was shipped out. However, if reports are true, he tried other options and couldn't get players they wanted. This was widely reported on. The untimely retirement f Nisky backed them against a wall On Braun: see Nisky above... I think they were in a tough spot and did what they could. I don't think anyone expected the abomination of a season they pinched out If he's screws up now, he deserves whatever he gets. To this point, I'm willing to see what happens, just like I am with a FEW players who had a bad season 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 2 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: I have no problems passing on Krebs, Caulfield and Newhook. Krebs suffered that Achilles tear and when your game is based on speed, that's a particularly bad injury to overcome. As for Caulfield, the Flyers drafted a Caulfield type in Brink. As for Newhook, I'm not sold. York is turning out to be a great pick and his cold as ice and calm demeanor on the ice is exactly what the defense needs. Nothing rattles him. Having that calming influence is gig to be huge. If Krebs doesn't suffer the tear he's a top 5 pick. He looks to have fully recovered. Newhook was about a point and a half per game in college, over a ppg in the A and put up 3 points in 6 NHL games. Not a career but he sure looks like a player to me. Caufield has looked excellent for a rookie on the Habs. Again, York looks good too but the cupboard was pretty full of dmen and we need some forward depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 1 hour ago, CoachX said: I agree. He hasn't done much. And I don't think he's been terrible, awful or idiotic. He hasn't been terrible, because he hasn't done much. But I can't say he "nailed it" on anything, that's for sure. 1 hour ago, CoachX said: On Hayes: first season looked like a good signing. I get the money argument. Last season, "Purple" Hayes looked stoned, but he had an injury. Maybe that was the real cause. The term is worse than the money. The money is bad. 1 hour ago, CoachX said: On Gus: bad signing. It was acknowledged and he was shipped out. However, if reports are true, he tried other options and couldn't get players they wanted. This was widely reported on. The untimely retirement f Nisky backed them against a wall On Braun: see Nisky above... I think they were in a tough spot and did what they could. I don't think anyone expected the abomination of a season they pinched out If he's screws up now, he deserves whatever he gets. To this point, I'm willing to see what happens, just like I am with a FEW players who had a bad season I'm only judging him on his past and it's not great. Not terrible, but not great. Mediocre, which is what I've come to expect from this once great franchise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 16 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: He hasn't been terrible, because he hasn't done much. But I can't say he "nailed it" on anything, that's for sure. The term is worse than the money. The money is bad. I'm only judging him on his past and it's not great. Not terrible, but not great. Mediocre, which is what I've come to expect from this once great franchise. can't disagree with any of your points. I just can't lay it all on him.....YET Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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