What is wrong with the Flyers and how do you fix it?

[FD19372]

Just now, mojo1917 said:

**** that guy. 

Bring Fonzie in - he's won this century and is a  quote machine.

Fonzie is employed, last I checked but heeeeyyyyyy.

[mojo1917]

A thing I saw tonight at the end of the Islanders/Caps blowout.

Chara ragdolled Matt Martin. Martin was mouthing off and Chara beat his ass. I wish there was a player capable of doing that and a coach that wouldn't treat fighting as anathema to the sport on our team.

 

This team (Flyers) has zero fight and is not hard to play. 

 

 

[mojo1917]

4 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

Fonzie is employed, last I checked but heeeeyyyyyy.

Not for long amirite?

[FD19372]

2 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Not for long amirite?

When he's fired, get back to me.

[OccamsRazor]

I feel bad somebody ain't eating...

 

 

[Fizz]

14 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I feel bad somebody ain't eating...

 

 

That's kinda funny in a way but also very sad.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Fizz

[CoachX]

2 hours ago, pilldoc said:

Then what? Do you go onto Coach X?

Fck yeah. Ill fix this **** in a nano second. And ill do it while enjoying some bourbon while posting on this forum. You will all be my personal advisors, except Rux, hes cranky.... ok him to, but i dont want " the irish"

 

My motto, " no more pu$$ies" and "never miss a good oportunity to STFU!"

Edited April 2, 2021 by CoachX

[radoran]

44 minutes ago, Fizz said:

You know you keep arguing telling me everything I'm saying is wrong. But no where have you sad what needs to happen to fix this and how to do it.

Although I'm flattered with your obsession with my posts I sure would like to hear your solution and plan.

I have said mine, Fire AV and bring in Babcock.

 

I'm not arguing. I'm telling you what you said was wrong because you were factually incorrect so many times.

 

The only obsession here is you asserting things that are just wrong. That's not on me. That's all you.

 

I have clearly said give Couturier the C and move anyone else over 28 and build around that. Try to keep up.

 

G is done after next season, hope (or influence) Seattle to take JVR, retain salary and trade Voracek. Hayes and his NMC is problematic but he doesn't have the stink of the past eight years.

 

That certainly is more effective than replacing the captain on the Titanic after it hit the iceberg.

 

Babcock seems like a perfect choice for this roster. He hasn't coached a team out of the first round or higher than 3rd in a division since 2013.

Edited April 2, 2021 by radoran

[mojo1917]

Last COVID  point. 

The condensed schedule and 3 game sets allow teams to really exploit weaknesses they find. 

Without practice time, that exploitable thing doesn't get corrected.

I'm thinking about Phil Myers when he was scratched. Teams were dumping to his side all the time because they knew he was off.

The only way to get some of these issues fixed is to scratch the player.

The bad play never gets corrected and is continually exploited.

Teams go to the easy thing that worked the last time. 

 

It has been a nightmare to watch,  I'm sure it is far worse in the dressing room.

 

 

Edited April 2, 2021 by mojo1917

[Fizz]

1 minute ago, radoran said:

 

I'm not arguing. I'm telling you what you said was wrong because you were factually incorrect so many times.

 

The only obsession here is you asserting things that are just wrong. That's not on me. That's all you.

 

I have clearly said give Couturier the C and move anyone else over 28 and build around that. Try to keep up.

 

G is done after next season, hope (or influence) Seattle to take JVR, retain salary and trade Voracek. Hayes and his NMC is problematic but he doesn't have the stink of the past eight years.

 

That certainly is more effective than replacing the captain on the Titanic after it hit the iceberg.

 

Babcock seems like a perfect choice for this roster. He hasn't coached a team out of the first round or higher than 3rd in a division since 2012.

Tell me who you trade Jake to? Nobody will want him. What do you do with Ghost? Nobody wanted him for free.

What do you do with the rest of the team that has been here for a few years? You keep babbling that the players have sucked for 10 years, then why have numerus GM's kept them around? You would think that in 10 years one of them would have thought "these guys suck maybe I should get rid of them" buy hey they didn't.

It is much easier to try a new coach than it is to replace a whole team. It has been done multiple times in the NHL.

So why is AV more qualified than Babcock?

 

 

[Fizz]

15 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

I'm not arguing. I'm telling you what you said was wrong because you were factually incorrect so many times.

 

The only obsession here is you asserting things that are just wrong. That's not on me. That's all you.

 

I have clearly said give Couturier the C and move anyone else over 28 and build around that. Try to keep up.

 

G is done after next season, hope (or influence) Seattle to take JVR, retain salary and trade Voracek. Hayes and his NMC is problematic but he doesn't have the stink of the past eight years.

 

That certainly is more effective than replacing the captain on the Titanic after it hit the iceberg.

 

Babcock seems like a perfect choice for this roster. He hasn't coached a team out of the first round or higher than 3rd in a division since 2013.

Here is a list of players over 28

What are you going to do with them all?

 

Justin Braun Born 1987

Sean Couturier Born 1992

Brian Elliott Born 1985

Claude Giroux Born 1988

Erik Gustafsson  Born 1992

Kevin Hayes Born 1992

Alex Lyon Born 1992

Michael Raffl Born 1988

Jakub Voracek Born 1989

JVR Born 1989

Plus there are a few getting close to your cut off number.

That's 9 players on a 23 man roster, I didn't count Lyon.

How on earth do you plan on turning that many players over?

 

 

 

[CoachX]

8 hours ago, Fizz said:

Tell me who you trade Jake to? Nobody will want him. What do you do with Ghost? Nobody wanted him for free.

What do you do with the rest of the team that has been here for a few years? You keep babbling that the players have sucked for 10 years, then why have numerus GM's kept them around? You would think that in 10 years one of them would have thought "these guys suck maybe I should get rid of them" buy hey they didn't.

It is much easier to try a new coach than it is to replace a whole team. It has been done multiple times in the NHL.

So why is AV more qualified than Babcock?

 

 

I think this has been covered, hasnt it?

 

To trade Jake you will have to retain salary and add picks. Do it! At the deadline, a contender is the best option.

 

Tell G he won't be resigned. Pressure him into accepting a trade. Find a contender

 

Make JVR or Jake the most attractive expansion option 

 

Laughton, Hagg, Ghost, Raffl, Patrick all have value. 

 

As for AV, he isnt getting fired, and Babcock isnt getting hired

 

Lets move on

[pilldoc]

8 hours ago, CoachX said:

Fck yeah. Ill fix this **** in a nano second. And ill do it while enjoying some bourbon while posting on this forum. You will all be my personal advisors, except Rux, hes cranky.... ok him to, but i dont want " the irish"

 

My motto, " no more pu$$ies" and "never miss a good oportunity to STFU!"

(Chuckling) wasn’t even thinking of your screen name when I typed that....

[CoachX]

2 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

(Chuckling) wasn’t even thinking of your screen name when I typed that....

 

Edited April 2, 2021 by CoachX

[SCFlyguy]

12 hours ago, Fizz said:

Why are the Flyers the only team that tanked and are not meeting expiations?

 

WTF are you talking about?  One reason the Flyers are in the situation they are in is because they have never "tanked", i.e. stripped it all down, focussed on acquiring assets and draft capital, and not worried about winning.  I'll quote a wise man:

 

The time to strip it down was:

• After the disaster of 06-07: We should have spent several years sucking and stockpiling more young talent, but instead we went for the quick turnaround with big trades and free agent signings.  It actually almost worked, except it didn't.
• After the Carter/Richards trade: the idea that the resources that came back in those trades would be able to step in and compete on the same timeline as Jagr, Timonen, etc. was insane.
• After Hextall came in: the idea that all of Hextall's picks and prospects were going to be ready on the same timeline as Giroux, Voracek, Simmons etc. was insane.

The Flyers are always half-pregnant and haven't stripped it down since 1967.  Even Hestall wanted to "remain competitive" to make Snyder and his Comcast bosses happy even though Hextall (and all of us) knew the team had no shot.

 

With all do respect, thinking that the team tanked, built some juggernaut of young talent, and AV is holding them back, is really, really dumb.  They're not that good.

 

[SCFlyguy]

Tanking would look like trading everyone over 26 with a modicum of value for future assets, taking 5 years straight of no playoffs, and drafting in the top 5 for several years so you hope to hit a home run or two.  That's no guarantee (look at Buffalo), but that's what tanking means - not keeping all your big names, putting butts in the seats and taking fans money, and telling them there is a chance.

[flyercanuck]

9 hours ago, radoran said:

 

 

 

Hayes and his NMC is problematic but he doesn't have the stink of the past eight years.

 

 

Well, he has it....he just didn't get it from here.

[SCFlyguy]

Look what the Rangers did when their AV-led teams finally got old and stopped making the playoffs: they sent a letter to the fans saying, in essence, "we are rebuilding, its going to take a while, and we're not making the playoffs any time soon."  They then traded/released/did not resign almost all of their older veterans and started drafting like fiends.  They are the youngest team in the league right now and are just as good as the "tanking" Flyers.  And their coach is not impressive, at all.

[SCFlyguy]

But do tell: this team, that looks and plays a lot like all the teams for the last 8 years, is all the fault of AV, who has been here 18 months.  Ridiculous.

 

You want my solution: shoot every ex-Flyer in the organization in the back of the head and dump their bodies in a mass grave.  Is that clear enough for you?

[OccamsRazor]

10 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Without practice time, that exploitable thing doesn't get corrected.

 

When can we expect this from the Flyers?

 

 

10 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

 

Teams go to the easy thing that worked the last time.

 

When can we expect this for the Flyers?

[otto12]

Been watching pro hockey for more than 70 years. Learned that teams have personalities. Some respond to adversity, some don't.

 

As much as I would miss the season I was hoping for a cancellation. Had a gut feeling that covid-19 was a killer for the flyers. Missing a top pair defenseman, short training camp and a lack of strong leadership, they weren't a contender.

 

Still, I would not use this season to evaluate who goes and who stays. Use the time to prepare for the off season and expansion. Write this season off.

[tucson83]

2 hours ago, SCFlyguy said:

 

WTF are you talking about?  One reason the Flyers are in the situation they are in is because they have never "tanked", i.e. stripped it all down, focussed on acquiring assets and draft capital, and not worried about winning.  I'll quote a wise man:

 

The time to strip it down was:

• After the disaster of 06-07: We should have spent several years sucking and stockpiling more young talent, but instead we went for the quick turnaround with big trades and free agent signings.  It actually almost worked, except it didn't.
• After the Carter/Richards trade: the idea that the resources that came back in those trades would be able to step in and compete on the same timeline as Jagr, Timonen, etc. was insane.
• After Hextall came in: the idea that all of Hextall's picks and prospects were going to be ready on the same timeline as Giroux, Voracek, Simmons etc. was insane.

The Flyers are always half-pregnant and haven't stripped it down since 1967.  Even Hestall wanted to "remain competitive" to make Snyder and his Comcast bosses happy even though Hextall (and all of us) knew the team had no shot.

 

With all do respect, thinking that the team tanked, built some juggernaut of young talent, and AV is holding them back, is really, really dumb.  They're not that good.

 

for the av haters not you, blame hextall for not firing hak when trotz was available and to your statement, it was on hextall for not trading the prospects to get better players when we had cap space while we were competitive in 2018. if hextall didnt sit on his a## when talent and coaching was there for the taking, this probably would never have happened. now we are stuck and fletch is caught in a needle and haystack trying to figure how to get out of this mess by hextall.

Edited April 2, 2021 by tucson83

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

When can we expect this from the Flyers?

 

 

 

When can we expect this for the Flyers?

who in the division has lost a significant portion of their roster to the COVID protocols? New Jersey...Last I saw they were terrible, Buffalo, last I saw they nearly set a record for futility in a season and the Flyers.  So maybe when the Flyers play New Jersey? 

 

I don't understand the point you're trying to make, and feel as though I didn't explain mine well  enough for you to grasp mine. 

 

I'll use the  Islanders who have not had the virus go through their dressing room, and have not have 2 weeks away from the rink, and have been able to work on their game this season. Their experience with the virus is vastly different from that of the Flyers. Same with the Caps who post-poned some games because they acted like assholes early in the season, but didn't have guys actually contract the virus- to my knowledge.

So yes everyone has been operating in the same pandemic, but not everyone's experience has been the same. 

It makes a difference. 

 

Edited April 2, 2021 by mojo1917

[CoachX]

The covid thing happened before the March meltdown, didn't  it?

[mojo1917]

21 hours ago, Fizz said:

The big think is you have to have a team that wants him first, and I can't see any team wanting a 9 mil 3rd line center.

People are angry that the team is .500 I'm one of them.  I don't think I've let it distort my grasp of the reality of the situation.

First off, 8.2 isn't 9 and if a team is pushing for a cup run having a guy like Claude on your team will not hurt. 

Also

He's a really good player.

He's an all-time Flyer like it or not- the numbers don't lie.

He's won as many cups as Eric Lindros who was an idiot in addition to being great for a short time. Eric somehow gets a pass?

Claude's played on bad teams, but he's been really good for most of career. Good enough to keep the team from completely sucking.

 

the Flyers failed to build a team around him and Jake, they needed better players around them because they are not generational talents.

 

I do think, should the Flyers convince him to waive his NMC, they will have to retain some salary because of the flat cap. I also think teams would be delighted to have a player with his skill join them.