What is wrong with the Flyers and how do you fix it?

[OccamsRazor]

7 minutes ago, elmatus said:

Giroux especially is one of the most productive players this franchise has ever had. BUT, it turned out he's not the elite level guy Hexy hoped he would be, and building around him proved to not be good enough.

 

And the year was 2017-18. That team was playing very well and Ron's one huge misstep was goaltending.

 

Claude had his first 30 goal season (34) his 102 point season.

 

Coots 31. TK 24. Simmer 24. Jake 20. Ivan 17. Ghost 13. Hell Patrick even had 13. Raffl 13. 

 

The defense wasn't the best. But doing the job with kid's on the way.

 

However goaltending is really where Hextall let them down.

 

Mrazek was his answer and he just went 6-6-3 891%...mediocre at best.

 

But it was scoring from the core that was really the issue that got over looked shutout twice in 6 games...getting beat 0-7 and 0-5.

 

Coots got hurt but gutted in out.

 

Flyers got 852% from their net....Elliott and Neuvy let them down.

 

But Giroux and Jake had their highlight years and was just fools gold.

 

Giroux was 30 and Jake was 28....this would have really been the year to just blow it up and rebuild and get something of real value for both...while they were on top.

 

But nope they didn't they kept them and well have paid for that fools gold since.

 

And that well let them down greatly. This is when you should blow it up and get the rebuild going.

[mojo1917]

32 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

Here's why I don't buy it. Why wouldn't it be affecting every other team in the league? I know we're not in last year's bubble. To me,  it becomes a matter of questions like..Was the organization being responsible?  Were the players being responsible, and following CDC guidelines? Were they doing things like going to crowded bars, or other places? I think it could be an issue, but certainly is not the reason for the poor play, they just lack the necessary experience, skill and poise to be NHLers..in large majority, right now. Every other team could use COVID as an excuse. Why should this team? To me, and I know I'm being a hardass but...if they can't discipline themselves to be professionals when they're not playing hockey, (and in their off season conditioning regiment), why should I trust them on my hockey team? I know they're are many kids on this team, but they're WELL PAID kids.

It is affecting some other teams. It is not just the Flyers.

Dallas, St Louis, New Jersey, Buffalo, Vancouver...there are some teams with some talent and teams on the come in that group. 

Part of my issue with much of what you've typed here is I know people (plural)  who only went to the grocery store and washed their produce that still got the virus. Now, were these people overstating the precautions they took? IDK. 

But with the pandemic whether or not you contracted the virus wasn't a direct result of your personal actions or a failing of preparation.

Sometimes it was just bad ****** luck, being at the wrong place, at the wrong time, around the wrong person. 

 

You could be right, on the F1 series a lot of those drivers were rolling their eyes at the precautions. So it stands to reason young healthy pro athletes may act similarly . We don't know how these dudes were behaving but I would think they would do the minimum, especially after the incident with the Caps players going on the protocol for just "hanging out" and how that was handled.

 

 

 

[radoran]

22 minutes ago, elmatus said:

Hexy clearly wanted to have a team that remained competent enough to at least make the playoffs,

 

I liked your book.

 

However, it should be noted that it wasn't just Hextall, it's the organizational* phillyosophy.

 

It's all part of the "make the playoffs and anything can happen" mantra that has been beaten to death at Broad & Pattison.

 

12 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

Those who want immediate changes better get ready for 3-4 years of terrible to bad hockey.

 

As opposed to... middling and mediocre hockey for 8-9 years with no end in sight?

 

I don't know that Farabee-Couturier-Konecny would be a terrible first line.

 

Lindblom-Hayes-Patrick?

 

There are some unknowns out there. But IMO there are some knowns they have now...

 

Also, freeing up $20-25M in cap space opens up a lot of options especially in a flat cap era where other teams don't have that space.

[FD19372]

2 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

It is affecting some other teams. It is not just the Flyers.

Dallas, St Louis, New Jersey, Buffalo, Vancouver...there are some teams with some talent and teams on the come in that group. 

Part of my issue with much of what you've typed here is I know people (plural)  who only went to the grocery store and washed their produce that still got the virus. Now, were these people overstating the precautions they took? IDK. 

But with the pandemic whether or not you contracted the virus wasn't a direct result of your personal actions or a failing of preparation.

Sometimes it was just bad ****** luck, being at the wrong place, at the wrong time, around the wrong person. 

 

You could be right, on the F1 series a lot of those drivers were rolling their eyes at the precautions. So it stands to reason young healthy pro athletes may act similarly . We don't know how these dudes were behaving but I would think they would do the minimum, especially after the incident with the Caps players going on the protocol for just "hanging out" and how that was handled.

 

 

 

True, but it affected Carolina for a long while, too....and they're 24-8-3.

[OccamsRazor]

16 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

dude it's the internet...it's fine re: shouting

 

your refusal to see that not everyone has had the same experience with the same circumstances continues to puzzle me.

They aren't robots, some guys got sick, some didn't, some teams had the virus rip through the locker room, some didn't, how is that the same?

it's not.

 

 

It's been 9 years bro. It doesn't matter what everyone else was dealing with IDGAF i care about this team and WTF is wrong with them. I get that the rest of the NHL is dealing with this.

 

Not sure why you have to keep repeating like we are going to say "Oh it's ok guys cuddle up we'll get through this yall keep playing soft and lost see you in 2022...."

 

Braun sucked it is why the Sharks moved on from him and now some teams trash and become our vet and the guy just isn't good...it is time for the excuses to end.

 

Who cares if it the same or not....you will allow for it do be an excuse.

 

A guy have covid back in February so now at the end of march he doesn't know he isn't suppose to let the Sabres players stand between him and the goalie???

 

WTFever.

 

Any ways i am going to let yall have at it i have said enough on all this have a good day.

[mojo1917]

2 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

True, but it affected Carolina for a long while, too....and they're 24-8-3.

Right, not every team is the same.  Good for them, no snark- 

[SCFlyguy]

My god, imagine being this attached to Jake Voracek.  Gottdam fat muppet would pass on a penalty shot.

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

True, but it affected Carolina for a long while, too....and they're 24-8-3.

 

You and your logic!!!!!!!

 

If nothing happens at all let's move the Ginger Floater to give us all something else to target...he needs the Simmer treatment.

[radoran]

11 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

The worst place to be, is having the organization irresponsibility, of giving two mediocre, or slightly better than mediocre players..in Voracek and Giroux massive, STUPID comtracts , one with an NMC. Now, we have to PRAY that we can move at least one of them.

 

I wouldn't say they are "mediocre" - they are terribly inconsistent.

 

I do think Giroux is a Very Good player, but he has clearly not been a difference maker and as a Very Good player on a mediocre team he's able to put up higher numbers than he might in a different situation.

 

It also puts him at a disadvantage in the postseason as teams can focus on shutting him down - and they have. He has four goals in the playoffs as captain - in 35 games.

 

That said, I have to think that Voracek is one of the guys being talked about in the "coasting" criticism that's bursting out of the seams of the locker room.

[mojo1917]

Just now, OccamsRazor said:

 

You and your logic!!!!!!!

 

If nothing happens at all let's move the Ginger Floater to give us all something else to target...he needs the Simmer treatment.

okay last time.

FD's post makes my point also.

 

Our guys didn't react to it the way their guys did. Not every team's experience has been the same.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CoachX]

20 minutes ago, Digityman said:

Just had another thought.... what if it's all the gingers on this team.  I'm only half-kidding and mean no offense to our ginger-posting friends.

Full ginger = Giroux, Jake, Couturier, (Harnell still counts as a broadcaster), Gritty

Half ginger ? = Raffl? Hayes? Hart? Braun? Morin is close

Thank god for Oskar and his blonde locks.  

 

 

 

[Digityman]

1 minute ago, radoran said:

It also puts him at a disadvantage in the postseason as teams can focus on shutting him down - and they have. He has four goals in the playoffs as captain - in 35 games.

Jesus that hurt to remember.

[FD19372]

8 minutes ago, radoran said:

I do think Giroux is a Very Good player, but he has clearly not been a difference maker and as a Very Good player on a mediocre team he's able to put up higher numbers than he might in a different situation.

 

Very good players, are difference makers. Sorry. He's really not. I mean, not at the money they're paying him, and the C they gave him.

Edited April 2, 2021 by FD19372

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, Digityman said:

Jesus that hurt to remember.

 

Andrew MacDonald had more playoff goals (4) than Giroux (3) in his tenure. I noticed that the other day when looking over AndyMac's history for another post.

 

It's just a clear indication that teams can focus on and shut down Giroux.

 

Part of the problem with the "they didn't build enough around" the VeeGees argument is that their contracts - and others like MacDonald - in many ways hamstrung what the team was able to do.

 

The Flyers have almost always been up against the cap year over year. The one significant exception was when Hextall banked about $8M in space. He then spent it on arguably the top available forward at the time. That just happened to be JVR.

 

I'm a broken record, but Claude and Jake are paid to be difference makers and more often than not, they simply haven't been.

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

Very good players, are difference makers. Sorry. He's really not. I mean, not at the money they're paying him, and the C they gave him.

 

We're not terribly far apart in our evaluation.

 

I think there can be Very Good players who are not in and of themselves "difference makers."

 

It's a fair bit of semantics, so we can just leave it as read

[OccamsRazor]

8 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Andrew MacDonald had more playoff goals (4) than Giroux (3) in his tenure.

 

 

[Podein25]

7 minutes ago, radoran said:

I think there can be Very Good players who are not in and of themselves "difference makers."

 

 

This is true. I was only a good player, but I often made a difference and we won a lot of games. 

[FD19372]

12 minutes ago, radoran said:

Andrew MacDonald had more playoff goals (4) than Giroux (3) in his tenure.

MacDonald had a tenure? 

Edited April 2, 2021 by FD19372

[Digityman]

18 minutes ago, radoran said:

Andrew MacDonald had more playoff goals (4) than Giroux (3) in his tenure. I noticed that the other day when looking over AndyMac's history for another post.

I'm done with the Flyers for today.  

 

6 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

He had a tenure? 

 

5ish years.  That's a decent tenure considering the average career length for a NHL player is about 5 years according to ESPN.  ( I know..)

Edited April 2, 2021 by Digityman

[FD19372]

9 minutes ago, Digityman said:

I'm done with the Flyers for today.  

 

 

5ish years.  That's a decent tenure considering the average career length for a NHL player is about 5 years according to ESPN.

1) I was being sarcastic 2) He was overvalued by this Flyer organization 3) ESPN!? (sarcasm) 4) I'm done with the Flyers also, until they make significant moves...except to rightfully ridicule them for their organizational stupidity.

Edited April 2, 2021 by FD19372

[radoran]

44 minutes ago, Digityman said:

I'm done with the Flyers for today.  

 

41 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

I'm done with the Flyers also, until they make significant moves...except to rightfully ridicule them for their organizational stupidity.

 

This is the thing, isn't it?

 

We're not all posting on here because we don't give a rat's posterior about the state of the organization*.

 

We actually care that the organization* is in this position.

 

And I know that a lot of us have been talking about this organization* for a long time. Many go back far enough to get the golfer joke in the Hockey Chat.

 

In many ways, we're here for the support group aspect to help us through the collective "trauma" of the past stumbling eight years.

 

I'm glad that y'all are still here.

 

Mahalo

 

[OccamsRazor]

12 minutes ago, radoran said:

In many ways, we're here for the support group aspect to help us through the collective "trauma" of the past stumbling eight years.

 

And my liver thanks yall.

[Bertmega]

I haven’t posted in like five years and I came back to say this team is trash and it’s time to move on from Giroux, Voracek, Patrick, Braun, and TK.

 

Raffle has more heart then the entire team combined.

 

see you all in 2026

 

 

[pilldoc]

4 minutes ago, Bertmega said:

I haven’t posted in like five years and I came back to say this team is trash and it’s time to move on from Giroux, Voracek, Patrick, Braun, and TK.

 

Raffle has more heart then the entire team combined.

 

see you all in 2026

 

 

 

welcome back and see you again in 5 years  

[CoachX]

14 minutes ago, Bertmega said:

I haven’t posted in like five years

slacker!