BearOnIce

For the 1,495,679th time: Schneider is not going anywhere.

Since there's nothing remotely new here, couldn't we just have added to one of the other 47 threads?

Fire Holmgren, NOW.

Yep, another buy-out Bryz thread.

From a pure money stand point, Briere and Bryz aren't living up to their current salary.

Homer rolled the dice and crapped out trading Richards and Carter and expecting Simmonds, Schenn, Voracek, and Couterier to fill the void immediately.

If we don't buy out Bryz or Briere we are stuck with that core of players and waiting for them to develop. Voracek and Simmonds are "there" already, and have room to develop. Schenn IMO is years away from being Richards, if he can achieve that at all. Cooter, I just don't see anything there that says he was worthy of a top 10 pick. No speed, no hitting, doesn't finish, no flash ect..

With that being said, they need to add an established impact player someone to compliment these guys while they develop. Buying out Bryz or Briere frees the money up to do so.

I would much rather go back to 2nd tier goaltenders and hope to find a hot one. Or trade for a young gun, Bernier/Schneider.

Buy em out..

I don't know, maybe it is all about Losing Pronger, Jagr and Carle + replacing them with pretend NHLers like Gervais and Foster. But "coming up small" seems to be a disease that quickly spread throughout the lineup. I can't help but feel that Patient Zero is Ilya Bryzgalov. I go back to last year when the team is exceeding expectations on so many levels, only to see your Big FA goalie blow 3, 4, FIVE goal leads...maybe it starts to take a toll ... carries over a bit to next [this] year...then the lockout and guys start thinking FU Ed...there's no Jagr and his midnight workout madness, no Pronger...stuff adds up... Yeah they're supposed to be pros, they're paid millions...but feelings, resentments, they get in the way of the best of us sometimes.

edit: I guess my point is the "quit" started before this season. It began the minute the Pens' series was finished. I can't lay it ALL on Bryzgalov but boy did he suck for most of last year...and frankly he was the only one, everybody else was "over-achieving," if there is such a thing. By rights Bryzgalov should've been forgiven for last year and started this year fresh (which he did on his own) but so much other resentment-producing crap happened that now - now who cares?

Good points. These players are guys that were supposed to be part of a special team assembled to compete and win a Cup. Thats what they were sold by management. They were lied to. Everything you said is correct. So they are pissed. And they don't care because as much as us they see the failure in this organization. Comcast, you want to end up a bottom feeder you sit by and let an 80+ year old man still call the shots. You got a big problem. Just look at you players you F idiots at Comcast. That's right Lukko. You are a joke.

@Samifan

Sorry for the tone. Just really pissed off at this team all the way around.

Poorly constructed NHL squad whose results are fairly close to what should have been reasonably expected

--Average goalie given the GDP of a mid-sized Arab country

--A player made captain who really has no business being captain

--NMC/NTCs handed out like a PEZ dispenser gone postal.

--Letting Jagr and Carle go without even talking to them and replacing them with Gervais, Fedotenko, Foster, and Knuble

--Trading for Gagne and thinking that was even worth the idea

--Going into a season with absolutely no backup. The three-four year dance with Leighton makes my head explode

--Thinking Grossman, Timonen, Coburn, Mez, Gervais, Foster was an NHL defense

--A coaching staff made up of people including Craig Berube.

--A "system" (term used lightly and NO I WON'T EMAIL IT TO YOUR DAMN SOURCE!) that is probably counterproductive given the make up of the team and the shortened season/condensed schedule.

--The incessant line changing. Dude, if you have **** playing with **** attempting to do ****, you're still going to end up with ****.

--Just to name a few mindnumbing problems with the team and the GM that put it "together" (term used lightly)

Worse AHL squad

A dearth of draft picks

Either no plan or a really bad one.

No acknowledgement of the fans coming back from the lockout.

Just a cluster of an organization all the way around.

Wow. Very well spoken. The rant added a nice flavor and intense seasoning. Best part, no ack of the fans. Just stick it up our zsses with ticket prices and take us for grated. F you Snider and Comcast. You gonna have a real hard time getting this fan to spend it with you next year. Take that you CLUSTER.

@Samifan I'd like to see a total re-build....will not happen, but I think the way to improve the defense is elite prospects via the draft. Trade away the stiffs like Coburn and Mez....get them outta town and start a AHL defense next year, assuring we are total crap and go after the real deals in the draft.

Agree. And it begins with bringing in a new managment group. Holmgren out. Clarke officially out, clandestine office shut-down. Lukko and Comcast presence felt finally at last. The days of 1975 are gone.

Essentially, there's no way to look at this whole goalie fustercluck without it ending with "Homer should be fired."

Unless you are Ed Snider.

And that is the problem. Oh yea, in a nutshell.

@toughfighter83

It doesn't make sense, but much hasn't made sense in the Flyerland in the last few years. If any thing, it may send a message to players that their job isn't safe.

Also, it could prevent another Upshal and a 2nd for Carcillo type move. I don't think the Flyers do anything at the deadline. Briere is hurt, Couturier isn't lighting up the league, Hartnell has value but is under valued this year.

Untouchables should remain:

Schenn (both)

Giroux

Voracek

Simmonds

If Holmgren is fired you know damn well Bobby Clarke some how some way will become the interm GM.

And that is the problem in the nutshell.

They do need an outside opinion, sadly Edward Snider does not play that. Hence my prediction for the next coach of the Philadelphia Flyers;Head Coach: Riley Cote with Jody Shelley and Craig Berbue serving as his loyal assistants

The way to correct this deviant behavior by Ed Snider is for all of us to ween ourselves off the tickets and merchandise. That is how you "communicate" with a business organization today. Frankly, I like the Flyers becuase I like to follow a home team but with Center Ice, etc, there are a lot of options. When all is said and done, I want to watch some good, entertaining, competitive hockey. That is not the case now with this organization, circus master, and their dysfunctionalism. You must vote with your wallet.

Mr. Snider is still making the money though. Maybe all he really cares about is 'putting a competitive team on the ice' and asses in the seats...

Possibility???

Possibilty? Nope, exactly so. Putting a competitive team on the ice = excitement = selling tickets. Selling tickets = money. Money = Ed Snider. But not always does spending money work. You got to have the smartest minds in hockey running your organization to know where and when to spend the money. And when not to spend the money. When to build and when to pass. We don't have that brain trust now. Look at many of the other GM's. There is a new generation coming up through now. Case closed.

For once, at least, we can't blame this mess on the goaltending. Without Bryz, these guys are the worst team in the league. I remember a couple of years ago when Mr. Snider was very vocal about his team's performance, particularly the goaltending. I have a lot of respect for Mr. Snider, who is typically one of the most passionate owners in sports. However, how can he stand there and watch this team be non-competitive most nights and do nothing? I feel like, for one of the first times I can ever remember, he is content to not hold these players accountable. I don't blame the coach for this either. Mr. Snider needs to stop this UNDYING LOYALTY to these former and current players, and say "Maybe I need to get a truly insightful "hockey guy", as GM, with a different opinion on things than what I have, and let him try to fix it?" That is, unless he is purposely tanking the season. I almost feel like Mr. Snider said "Oh my God, I can't believe there's going to be a season,. what do we do now?" If he did, then he should also have done an honest thing for the 15,000 season ticket holders, and lowered ticket prices. How can he be content to do nothing but sit back and watch this crap product? The first thing I would do is can Paul Holmgren and bring in a knowledgable hockey guy. Stop the "Former Flyer Yacht Club". The second thing they NEED to do is get a dman with some mobility. By doing that, you improve that anemic offense. Forget Timonen and Meszaros. Timonen's best days are behind him, and Meszaros isn't a real 'difference maker'. Mr. Snider has to stop this loyalty, and oh yeah, the "I know hockey more than anyone else." (Jerry Jones/ Al Davis) crap, and if he truly wants to win like I think he does, bring in and listen to the people who have a good chance at getting the job done. I hope a couple of these overpaid stiffs (Coburn, Briere at this point) get unloaded at the trade deadline, too. SELL, MORTIMER, SELLLLL!!! I am beyond frustrated with the make up of this team, as Mr Snider should be.

Mr. Snider? Why does everybody call him "Mr." anyway? You would think he was some kind of royalty or deity. Ed is Ed. He is an owner. He has a big grin. Like the circus master. He wants to win because he sells more tickets. You sell more tickets you make more money. Money is how Ed keeps score. This is a business to Ed. Granted, Ed started it so it is a personal business to him. Something he attaches himself to closely. Identifies himself and his worth with. I can assure you that us Flyer fans are somewhat down on the Flyers food chain. What Ed needs to do before he is pushing up flowers up on Lemon Hill, is to step back, and get all of the homerism out of this organization. It is destructive loyalty and favorism not based upon what is best for the organization and Comcast. Out with Clarke. Out with Holmgren. Get in some new thinking, management, scoouting, and decision making. Ed Snider is the problem. Plain and simple. Print it.

@fishbulb

Agreed. I guess we are all pretty much on the same page here, off-load vets and be patient. Let's hope Homer and, more importantly, Snider sees it that way too. Something tells me they don't though...

Unfortunately Ed's purse is always open and the checkbok and pen ready.. I like the competiveness but when you swing for the fences and miss the swosh is deafening...

Perhaps there simply aren't any reasonable moves out there. With the whole internet/fantasy/trade speculation world we live in, people assume there are tons of trades to be had at any moment. (not saying you ctid) And if there are trade offers... maybe they Flyers are being asked to give up too much for too little. They're in a bad spot and I'm sure the vultures are circling... heck knows I'd be trying to steal on of the flyers' young centres in I had the chance.

I guess a big move could be Lavi as well... but unless you want boucher or ruff, what's the point?

No point in trying to make a splash right now... hopefully WE can be the ones to fleece someone by offloading some vets at the last minute to a 'bubble' team. If not, might as well wait until the draft.

Next year same coach and GM. Different D pieces, the biggest changes.

I am VERY surprised at how quiet Homer and the crew are. This is not very Flyers-like at all. I'm not saying that I hope they blow it all up or anything like that. Just saying it is very unusual.

The Sabres fired Ruff, Tampa fired Boucher...last time the flyers were in this situation, people were fired and major moves were made. Now nothing...one thing I presume the Flyers are known for around the league is to make bold moves and generally being impatient.

I for one actually welcome this "patience" and hope they don't do anything stupid like trading away some of the future. But again, it's just weird, nothing is happening.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet on they Flyers doing something big VERY soon. Just hope it's not stupid big.

You are wishing the Flyers do something big. Not going to happen in my opinion. They are playing out the season and deciding where they end up and look like draft wise. Could be some player movement but minor. I see some asistant coaches being changed out.

We win 4-2. Everyone's back on the band wagon and the Flyers lose the next 4. Kind of the way this season has gone.

We finish tied for last place with the Panther's but lose out on the #1 pick because of the lottery.

Seriously though I think we win tonight in a very physical game. Zac puts Cindy on the shelf with an upper body injury.

Wishful thinking

Yup...we all get a big dose of "false hope" this evening I bet. Pens have won 11 straight.....they are DUE for a loss....and they suck against us in their own barn.....so yeah. We all get to feel warm and fuzzy inside tonight......until we loose to the panthers or islanders next week.....

(don't even think we're playing them but you get the point.....)

And as for the managment watching this game....I think they already know who goes and who stays in the big picture....the last 25 games have shown the managment all they need to know in my opinon......

Ok, so who goes and who stays. List em in order. Or, at the very least some of the more intersting:

Captain Roo - Untouchable

Bryz -

Brier -

Coburn -

Talbot -

Shelly -

Gervais -

Boosh -

Leighton -

B Shenn -

L - Shenn -

Etc.

I don't think this game goes well... if you want us to win that is.... if you want us to keep working on the #1 pick I see this as a great game.

I guess we've handled the pens well at their barn since their move... but after this huuuuge layoff and our recent play??? Not gonna bet on the flyboys.

I share your opinion. I wish it was not. But who knows. They hate each other. That might be enough.

@BearOnIce It's a nice theory, but with the cap going down, you can only unload so many scrubs.

I was thinking about Bryz, Briere, and other veterans. The buyouts and the others not under contract.

I dunno, if the price is not outrageous, I'd rather go after a big 6'7 guy with some nice upside while he is still available. Not fond of the thought of searching for a deal/bargain....been there, done that....horrid results. I pay now, secure the tender I really want and go from there. I'd even do 2 mid level prospects (as long as it does not include Cousins or Ghost) and a 2nd....I'd be fine with that. We need quality goalies with upside for the future, and BIshop fits that description like a glove.

Might work.

To me there is just no reason to make a change at this point. Why not wait till the off season and get the coach you really want. Like I've said in other posts. This is more on Holmgren then Lavy. When I looked at this D when the season started I knew we were in trouble. Right now I' m really hoping for a high pick.

It is Snider and Holmgren. Laviolette is working with what he was dealt.

Hard to do anything offensively without having anything defensively.

Very difficult to say for sure where it comes from but my money is on Snider, with Homer imerely the one who makes the philosophy reality. No GM blows up the team every year unless the owner tells him to.

It is Snider. No doubt about it. He is the Flyers in his mind. He has the financial means every year to try and get the right pieces. Great for the fans. Not for the organization. Homer has to have the patience of Jobe.

Would there be any truth to the hypothesis that the Flyer players that show up and get minutes playing might be the ones that stay on this team next year? How do you think management may see it?

So apparently Bishop in Ottawa ia available and the asking price will be a draft pick and lower prospect. All I can say is the Flyers better make a play for this guy. Young and still cheap.

This is a sellers market right now. All the toys are very expensive. Why not wait until the playoff picture is defined, or even this summer when there might be a bargain or two ou there?

The Flyers traded for Chris Pronger of the Anaheim Ducks, Trading Luca Sbisa, Joffrey Lupul, a2009 first rounder (John Moore) and a 2010 first rounder (Emerson Etem).

The question is, knowing what you know naw, would you do the deal all over again?

Chris Pronger CARRIED the Flyers to a Stanley Cup final that they quite frankly had no business being in. Without him, the playoffs that year would have never been reached, a return to significance came with him, his tragic injury has shortened his career, but an amazing run will be his Philadelphia legacy, as it was in Anaheim in 2007 and Edmonton in 2006. One of the best big series players of all time.

They gave up:

Joffrey Lupul, a solid scoring wing who is injury prone but when healthy is a top six forward

Luca Sbisa A minute eating blue liner with a bit of scoring touch and a tough streak

Emerson Etem A very solid prospect with scoring touch, not embarrassing himself in the NHL right now

John Moore With the Jackets. Big strong defensemen still finding his way but a top prospect with offensive upside.

This trade reminds me for all of the world of a baseball trade in 1987, the Tigers traded a minor league prospect John Smoltz to the Braves for Doyle Alexander, a veteran mercenary pitcher. Alexander went 11-0 leading the Tigers to a division title over the much more talented Blue Jays team. They lost in the playoffs quickly to the Twins, Alexander was never as good, and Smoltz went on to be one of the top pitchers of his generation.

So again, the question is simple, would you do the Pronger deal again? Lupul in the top six, Sbisa eating minutes, Moore and Etem, they would fill out the roster nicely, but there would have been no Pronger led cup run.

Continued manifestation of the problem we see with the Flyers management philosophy every year: We can make the playoffs and win the Cup with one more piece. Not the way to build a hockey winner. 38 years and counting.

I think he will not waive and would get little if he did. We either buy out or reckon on another year of slop. Where I am more charitable than others is the possibility that age has caught up with him faster than expected. My other concern is that he is getting knocked around in a league of big people. It is sad but true.

Yes, I think he depends upon getting in the right spot at the right time with his size/skating skills and that Briere has headed on the downward slope at this point. Offensively gets knocked around and off the puck like a rag doll and defensively a true liability without the size. Buyout.

It ges worse, I honestly believe that if the Leafs were to play us in a 7 game series right now, they would sweep us. Yep, 4-0....get out the broom kinda dominance. Not that the Leafs are true contenders or anything like that (although they did look really good last night, dismantling Tampa Bay 4-2, right after the Bolts beat us by the same score!).....it just shows how bad we really are. This team is worse than the 07 non playoff team on most nights. We suck *that* badly. It's just sickening beyond belief....

Around here in Windsor, the standings mean everything. I went out to the mall in my Flyers gear, and at least 5 people were laughing at me! 2 of them had Habs stuff on, 1 Leaf and a Bruins and Devils fan......sad...told one of them that laughed really hard to STFU....he just kept laughing.....loser.

Give them "Mr. Snider's" phone number. You tell your GM to win the Cup every year you have no organization.