vis

2 hours ago, hf101 said:

 

 

I'm ok with this spot being open for someone in training camp to earn this roster spot.  The talent is there, it is just a matter of who will step up and grab the spot. My eyes are on Issac Ratcliff to earn the spot.

Same here.

@LegionOfDoom

Generally agree about Team Comcast and their “bias for action.”   I think, to some degree, they backed the team into a corner, at least as it relates to the Hayes signing.  But, I am not sure that explains Fletcher’s apparent penchant for leaving a little something on the table with each move he makes.  I just think that may be his style.  It also doesn’t explain the Schlemko move.  Has anyone figured out a rationale for that move?

Overall, the team has improved on paper.  That cannot be disputed.  Hayes is a legit 2C and fits well with Vigneult.  Niskanen and Braun bring some much needed leadership and stability to the defense, which should yield benefits to the young dmen as well.  I’d prefer to add a veteran at 3RW (Justin Williams), but won’t cry if they don’t.  Plus, he added a legit NHL coaching staff, though I am not enamored with Therrien in the least.  Pretty solid job. Now, I just want to see what he does with Provorov and TK.  Provorov’s market will be set by Werenski and McAvoy, so Fletch may not have a lot of room to work there.  I’m real curious to see what happens with TK.  I still think that’s going to be the most difficult negotiation.  

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

 

If you don't bring in Niskanen, Braun and Hayes, you can afford Panarin.  Actually you can still bring in Braun and afford Panarin easily.  Potentially more importantly, the Rangers don't get him.  

I don't think Panarin had interest in coming here.  I think it was assumed that either he and Bob were going to Florida or Panarin was going to NY.

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

Alternatively, maybe you trade for Subban and the Devils don't get him.  

I'm a little torn here.  Subban's contract is really rough.  Not sure they would have been able to fit him long term.  I do like Niskanen's veteran presence, but they paid for him looks kinda rough in light of the Subban deal.  Though, I suppose Poile was just happy to rid himself of Subban's cap hit entirely and was willing to accept very little in return. 

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

Even at this overpriced cost, I still take Hayes over Duchene. Duchene is a more talented scorer, but every team he's on seems to get immediately better as soon as he leaves while whatever team he comes to seems to get better.

Duchene had a pretty good playoff, which surprised me.  I think Duchene would have raised some interesting questions about whether he would play on a top line with Giroux instead of Couturier.  Regardless, Hayes is the more rounded player.

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

A big part of why I'm disappointed has to do with the Maple Leafs.  I do not understand how they convinced Johnson and Kapanen to sign for half of what they're worth.  My biggest hope for the off season was making a play for one of them via trade (Hagg and a pick in my ideal scenario). 

Yeah, kind of mystifying, but kudos to Dubas.  He's finding a way to get things done.

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

As it is Justin Williamd and Patrick Marleau are both still out there and either one (I prefer Williams) could slot in well as the 3RW, but if either one is going to keep playing hockey, I doubt the Flyers Cap space will allow for them after they resign Provo and TK and (presumably Laughton).  

Would absolutely love Justin Williams on this team.  Wanted him last time he was UFA.  He'd be a perfect 3RW.  

3 hours ago, brelic said:

 

I agree that there were a limited amount of options.

 

I think Kadri + Subban makes us MUCH better than Hayes and Niskanen. But maybe there was no deals to be had with the Leafs and Preds - and if there were, we probably wouldn't like what Fletch would give up to acquire them. 

 

I like Pavelski, and would have preferred him to either Kadri or Hayes. 

 

My post was just to say that regardless of what Fletch could or could not have done, what he actually DID do is underwhelming. 

Gotcha.  I'm saying the players he acquired may have been the best he could have done under the circumstances.

I probably would have preferred Kadri and his contract over Hayes and his contract.  Not sure how I feel about taking on Subban's contract, though.  

3 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

Something like that.  I remember it from the Pronger days.  Homer and then Hextall never waited to sign a guy I don't think, but they used to have to stow guys in the Minors and hope they'd clear waivers, bringing them up on day 2 in order to utilize Pronger's cap space.  

I think the Flyers were still able to sign guys during the offseason because they stayed below the 10% threshold during the summer.  Here, it sounds like the Leafs may not stay below that 10% threshold given their current cap situation and Marner's likely salary demands.

1 hour ago, brelic said:

But overall, it feels second-tier improvement. We didn't add any top level talent. 

I hear you, but who did you expect them to have a realistic shot at?  Even if they didn’t sign Hayes, I don’t think Duchene or Panarin we’re realistic options.  Who do you think they missed out on?  One player I would have targeted (before Hayes) was Pavelski.  That’s maybe the one player who I wonder about whether the Flyers kicked enough tires on.  Maybe they did and concluded he wanted to stay in the West.  Who knows?  But I’m not really seeing someone I wished they signed that was a realistic target.  

Outside of the Subban trade, I’m not sure there is much that could have been available that way.  Maybe the Kadri trade would have been interesting to me instead of Hayes.  I don’t hate Kadri as much as some, though I wonder how he would have done as a #2 here.  

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

They need only need  2-3 million in cap space to sign Marner.  If they wait until after the first game to do so, they'll get almost $5.5million in cap relief for LTIR Horton.  So done deal.  

Forgot about the Horton relief.  So how does this work mechanically?  They can’t sign Marner now (and their other FAs) because it would put them over the cap by more than 10%?  So they have to wait until after the start of the season to sign him?

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

What on earth are they going to give the Flyers back though that we'd want and isn't going to feel like Fletcher doing more favors for the enemy.

Nothing, really.  Of course Fletcher would be doing a favor here.  Everyone knows the Flyers have a glut of dmen and need to trade bodies.  Unless some other team really needs a dman or likes one of our guys, I imagine any trade is going to be underwhelming.  

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

No everyone has seen him play. Devils have the money and contracts to waste...he'll be in the doghouse by Christmas.

I think he'll be a good player for them.  I don't think the Devils can realistically expect 25+ goals from him, but he can provide leadership, character and some toughness.  Worth $5m?  Probably not, but as mentioned, the Devils have $$$ and contracts to burn.  Money aside, it was an astute signing by Shero.  

Devils need someone to ride shotgun for Hischier and/or Hughes.  Simmonds fits the bill perfectly.  Devils are barely over the cap floor, so they could toss stupid money around.  High risk/reward for Simmonds.  Wonder if he fielded any long-term offers.  Guessing not by the looks of this deal.

55 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

With Hak in Toronto, I'm hoping to dump off Hagg up there. They still need defense.

 

Edit: or not. Just saw they got Barrie. That gives them room for Marner, but damn are they going to struggle next year.

Yeah, they are out of the running as a trade partner on defense.  

Leafs still have to sign Ceci and Kerfoot.  That will cost them some of Marner's money.  Still think they are screwed.

Not worried.  Didn't expect much today given that Fletcher has said he wants to get his RFAs in order before hitting UFA.  Nothing happened today that made me think they missed the boat on someone.  Some of today's deals shed interesting light (good and bad) on some of the deals Fletcher already made.  

Before assessing the summer of Fletcher, I want to see what he does with the RFAs.  Also, they now have a glut of d-men.  Have to think someone is getting moved.  I also think I'd be fine with leaving 3RW open with the hope that maybe one of the kids could fill that spot out of camp.

All that said, as of now, I'm mixed on the summer of Fletcher.  It's not so much the players he brought in, but I can't help but think he left something on the table in each deal.  I also don't understand the Schlemko move.  And I'm a little bothered by the Talbott/Elliott stuff, but whatever.  I don't feel great about Hart/Elliott as a tandem next year.  Have a real bad feeling about that.  

3 minutes ago, Lindbergh31 said:

As long as Fletcher doesn't sign Provorov to a 2 year deal where they have to try and resign both to long deals at the same time then I'm fine with Sanheim being signed to the shorter deal. Hopefully Fletcher gets Provorov signed to a long-term deal.

Exactly.  Can't have both coming due at the same time again.

Good $$ number.  I'll take it on the length.  Sanheim can sign a bigger deal when Niskanen rolls off.  Curious to see what Provorov signs on for now.  I'd prefer to see him get a longer term deal.

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

I've never seen anywhere that York waa the best in draft, though arguably best offensive defenseman.  I have read that.

Maybe that's what I read.  Thanks for the clarification.

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

I know some here are anxious about college kids.  I share that.  But I think I previously read on this board that they're possibly not going to be able to sign some of their Scandinavian defensemen.  Maybe that was a factor. Maybe they really wanted either left shot or offense there.   Don't know, but I've really come around on that pick. 

****.  I forgot to mention that in my post.  I am one of the folks anxious about picking college kids.  I mean, it's a big loophole.  Say what we want about the FO and some of its decision making at times, but the Flyers are generally a well-regarded organization and hopefully the college draftees see value in that.  I don't think they have had a history of losing college players to FA, but maybe that's because they haven't been faced much with that threat given the previous dearth of strong prospects (college or junior).  My one concern is York thinking he's roadblocked from getting a top 4 shot at some point.  I wouldn't shy away from selecting him, though.  

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

I love the trading up for Brink. I'm stunned he was still there at #34.  But to me, that where you risk your pick on the smallish scoring winger (NOT at 14!).

Tend to agree on risk taking.  Read to me that Caufield didn't do much away from the puck, whereas it sounds like Brink can do other things.  Have to say, I've been impressed watching some of Brink's clips.  

I usually don't have strong opinions about draft picks unless they seem way off-board or don't seem to align with the organization's needs at the time.  I just don't follow prospects enough to form an opinion.  That said, it seems that Fletcher had a really strong first couple of rounds.  I'm impressed by the maneuvering to drop only three spots and replace a second rounder.  Then, he was able to parlay that newly acquired second rounder with a third rounder into an even higher second rounder.  That's some pretty shrewd dealing.  Kudos to Fletcher.

As far as the players he chose, it seems you cannot find fault in the players themselves.  York sounds like a real gem and I think I heard some say he may even have been the top d-man in the draft.  Our defensive prospects are depleted by graduation, so the choice at 14 makes sense to me.  I won't get into whether Caufield or whoever else should have been chosen.  Time will tell and it seems like the York pick was logical.

Brink sounds like the same type of player some were upset about not selecting at 11 or 14.  I read in some places that Brink was a top 20 player in this draft.  Nice work getting him at 34.  I hear complaints about his skating.  The complaints seem to be that his stride is awkward.  But I haven't read that he's slow or clumsy or doesn't accelerate well.  Is the issue with his mechanics?  If he can otherwise skate well in terms of speed, agility and acceleration, why do people handwring over an ugly stride?  I do get that smaller players who exceed in the NHL usually do so because of they overcome their "short"comings with superior skating.  So, I'd be lying if I said his skating doesn't worry me a little.  But if the issue is awkwardness only, what is the big deal?

Anyway, for now, it seems like he acquitted himself well in his first draft.  

16 hours ago, Philly29 said:

I know everyone is going nuts over the Hayes contract which I agree makes me extremely nervous but only time will tell and Hayes better be at least a 60-65 point player "dreaming" to make that contract seem fair. 

Agree that time will tell re: Hayes.  It looks like a bit of an overpayment now, but if he produces the way you suggest, plays a solid two way game and gets PK time, I think he will earn his contract - at least in the first four years.  After that, it's a bit of a gamble.  But face that issue if and when they come to it.  Can we prospectively trade years 4-7 of his contract to Arizona now? 

16 hours ago, Philly29 said:

My question though is, and I am seeing it everywhere and that is why is everyone so quick on the trigger to trade Ghost? You can never have enough good possibly great dmen and he will only get better in my opinion.

Too many bodies on the defense.  Of the pieces the Flyers could part with, Ghost is probably the one that would fetch the most return to help the offense (maybe a RW?).  

16 hours ago, Philly29 said:

So why trade him? I am also seeing people wanting to trade Konecny if the Flyers where in on Marner.

If trading Konecny (plus more stuff) means getting Marner, I do that in a second.  And I love Konecny.  It also works since both Marner and Konecny are RW, whereas Patrick is a C and the Leafs are set at C.  I so wish the Leafs would take back JVR in a trade for Marner (obviously not one for one).

8 hours ago, pilldoc said:

 

Here is the list of the top 10 picks in the 2017 Draft.....  Pettersson and Heiskanen are the only ones I would have drafted at #2.  In all fairness to Patrick he was recovering from an injury.  Because of that IMHO he should have been sent back to his junior club.  However this fan base would have gone apeshit if that occurred because of all the fanfare of him being the #2 overall pick.

 

How great would Pettersson be in O&B right now.  Like they say....hind-site is always 20/20

 

Yeah, that’s all fair.  I’m not sure at the time would have put those guys ahead of Patrick.  I think the consensus was pretty much that it was a two player draft and somewhat of a coin flip between Patrick and Hischier.  Point is, I don’t think they could be criticized for taking him.  

I do wonder if the messed with his progress.  Not just because maybe he would have benefitted from junior, but I wonder if they just haven’t spent enough time or been done things effectively to get him to improve his game.  Still not convinced it’s on the player.

28 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yep and now he will have Frost breathing down his neck wanting that 3rd line center spot so he better get a move on or he could find himself getting a move out...no way i would deny Frost that spot since if he is ready....then the Flyers will have another issue on their hands...but it will be a good problem i guess.

I mean, the Flyers really had no choice but to draft him.  I wonder if his lack of development is the fault of the team or the player.  Hoping a new staff can jumpstart him.  Obviously best to try to be patient, but that's not a luxury with Comcast (and fans) being tired of patience.

59 minutes ago, brelic said:

Charlie O'Connor was referencing an article on the Gudas trade (from the Caps writers) where Radko was quoted as saying the environment was toxic in Philly. If that's the case, Fletch is trying to bring in dudes that will change that.

Would be very interested in seeing the source materials that Charlie was referring to.  Did Charlie post a link?

I do wonder if Radko is referring to the Hextall/Hakstol era.  Hope it's not a shot at the players.

4 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

Am I allowed to start asking if Kevin is in the gym now or do I have to wait longer?  

Sure, but ain't no way he's in the gym any time soon.  Dude can buy a lot of cheeseburgers and fries with that contract...

Knew he'd get the 7th year.  Thought he'd get close to $7m, not (slightly) more.  Bit of an overpayment, but the Flyers put themselves in this position.  Actually, the real shame of it is that Patrick hasn't taken a step forward and claimed that 2C slot.  Hayes should be buying Patrick a steak dinner.

From a price perspective, like other deals, seems like a little overpayment for a 32 year-old d-man with only one year left on his deal.  Plus, Sharks had to make a move to clear cap space.  Wonder how hard other teams were bidding for Braun.

That said, from a player perspective I really like the deal.  Another solid veteran guy who can help on the PK and be a steadying influence on the youngsters.  I assume he will get 2nd pairing minutes.

They are obviously trading one or two more d-men.

This is fun, right?

2 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

The Sharks had about 24 million Cap space before Karlsson's extension.  Take out the 8 million for EK, now the Sharks are down to about 16 million for the likes of Pavelski / Labanc / Meier / Nyquist .  Do the Sharks even resign Thornnton??   They have a lot of coin wrapped upped in 7 players.  they are using about 60% of their Cap Space on 7 players (50 million out of 83 million)

Thornton signs one year deals.  He's made enough money that the contract doesn't matter.  if he wants to play, he will sign a one-year deal for whatever number works from a cap perspective.  Have to imagine that Pavelski will sign for a reasonable number as well.  Doubt he has interest in going anywhere other than SJ.  Suspect he already knew the plans for Karlsson and probably got the Sharks comfortable with his own contract demands.  Meier and Labanc will be interesting negotiations.  They could let Nyquist walk.

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

8 years at 11million per is being reported.

WTF?!?!

 

I can't imagine.  I just can't imagine.  Thank GOD we're not in on that.  He's a super player and all that, but good lord.  

My fear is what that's going to do to the market. He's a great player if he can stay healthy, but it's an absolutely insane price.  

 

That is ridiculous.

10 minutes ago, elmatus said:

Let's say Hayes doesn't sign, either because he wants too much, or just because he'd rather play in NYC or whatever. And let's say Ghost now becomes the chip to get us our 2C. Who would we have as options in that case to target?

I have a feeling they will make a trade and I think Karlsson or Kadri are likely targets.  Otherwise, they end up with a consolation prize in UFA.  Does a guy like Marcus Johansson interest anyone as a 3C?  You'd have to hope for the best that Patrick could play the 2C role.  If he can't and they end up trading for a C during the season, they could move Johansson to wing.  Seems a bit messy, though.