Polaris922

Said it before and I'll say it again.... I think a lot if Flyers fans don't see Carle as the rest of the league does. This article points that out pretty well. He's the only defenseman you have that worries me carrying the puck into our end. And he may be soft but he's very sound positionally.

Go Kings!

I don't see where you could go wrong with either... We'll trade Paul Martin for them. Lol.

Wow, a guy that is one real good hit away from becoming a short bus rider is sure proud of himself......

The guy took $8.7 mill to play settling for less than what most thought he could demand to play and allow them to sign Malkin to the same deal. So he wants a $300k raise for ten years? Plus this "news report" is most likely speculation, and lays out no terms regarding his health, bonuses, or other qualifying information. if he wants 9 that's great for The Pens as the salary cap goes up.

Yes his health is a concern but I'm sure there would be conditions on such a long term deal.

But.. I like the Hartnell down picture! LOL

Jagr wanted money AND an important role on the team - not 3rd line duty.

He would've gotten time with Crosby or Malkin. Then Crosby sitting out so long would've guaranteed more ice but no way to promise that. There were no terms of how much he'd play only that they'd pay him $2 million for a year. The Pens and Wings withdrew their offers because his agent Svoboda is an ass and didn't respond within the time frames they proposed. Your young bucks benefited it sounds from his presence. I'm not sure he'd have brought anything to my team they didn't already have. I'm interested to see what happens here with him. If they offer him less than another competitive team what will he do??

I have to admit Jagr surprised me with how he performed for you guys this past season. More his personality than his on ice performance. But he did go there because nobody else would pay him so much. I'm not sure that side of him is changed enough to stay at a "discount". I'll be surprised, but I have to say it would be a nice surprise to see him finally place value in loyalty.

Oh and Kunitz didn't see a lot of time with Malkin. Neal was the only regular there. Seemed like Bylsma rotated people through depending on what he felt best worked at the time.

Timonen is a very smart player. And I was in no way inferring Lilja to be better, just using him to contrast where Timonen's defensive play has suffered as he's aged. Sorry I didn't clarify that I suppose.

As for the Schenn, Coutourier, Voracek comment made awhile ago, it was in deference to proven players vs. developing players. I like how Schenn plays hard, I like Voracek's skill, and I can see promise in Coutourier. I'm not as sold on them as you are as fans, but that may just be because I didn't see much of them. Ten or twelve games doesn't give me enough info to accurately judge them, so I hold off on saying I'd rather have any of them over Dupuis or Kunitz. I know their value to my team I suppose as you know the value of yours.

@Bertmega

i find myself responding to his posts also, he's a Pens guy, knows his team, does not really know ours too well.

he's a guy that thinks steve sullivan, arron asham, kris kunitz and pascal dupis are talented players... and while they are effective in blysma's system they're not dazzling anyone with their skills. so it makes perfect sense that he wouldn't see the value of kimo timmonen or know much about andrej metzaros beyond his stats.

I ran into a similar situation talking about jordan staal's play, i watch the pens when they're on and nothing else is, (in the taint of pennsyltucky we get the Root sports network), which is pretty infrequently, i don't know that team the way i know ours, but i know a little....but when i entered that conversation i was out of my depth very quickly, cause i don't have a vested interest in them to really pay attention.

As I said above, I'm simply trying to share a perspective of your team that I know several friends of mine and I share. These friends follow other teams, but won't come to these forums because of the heavy Flyers following here. I'm trying to change that, but they have the places they already like.

As for your comments about what I think, I think Steve Sullivan is past his prime, but is a veteran player who still shows a little sneakiness on the ice. He was 17/31/48 this year, which would make him 7th on your squad, and left him 6th on mine. I like having him on the team, but I never claimed he is an all-star player. I don't like Aaron Asham at all. I just don't think he's a dirty player. Kris Kunitz is a talented player. He would have been 3rd in scoring on your team, and not with a lot of PP time. Only 6 points behind Hartnell, and that was playing on a line without a high quality center most of the year. To say he's not a talented player is foolish. He's a small guy who goes into the slot and takes a beating to earn what points he gets, and is also a capable shooter with good hands. Dupuis is no scorer, but he is very valuable in that he can do everything WELL... not great, but WELL. He scores some (25/34/59 which again would be 3rd on your team) while playing 3rd line minutes a lot, penalty killing, and often times just playing utility man for Bylsma. Is he an all-star? No, but I never claimed he was. I claimed he was valuable.

I know you guys like Timmonen and Meszaros, I just have a different opinion of both. Timmonen was a great defenseman at one time in my eyes, again I just think those years are behind him. And I didn't like Meszaros with the LIghtning or Senators either. He had a great plus 30 year for you guys last year, I get it. But he's only had two really good years as a defenseman, and one solid year in orange and black doesn't convince me he's somehow an above average defenseman.

@Polaris922

Dude, let me start by saying I am sorry to always pick apart your posts, and I don't mean to come off as a d***, but your name wouldn't happen to be Kuato would it? With these ridiculous statements about the Flyers I am thinking you do not even watch Flyers hockey.

Let me break this down a little for you:

1) Pronger is one of the sole reasons that the team sniffed a shot at the cup in 2010. He is probably done now, so the team will have to figure that out.

2) Timonen had an outstanding year in 2012 (41 points and a +8, well above the league average) at 37 he still has gas in the tank and is an excellent defenseman and team player

3) Meszaros had a bad year due to injuries, but not too bad to amount 25 points and a +6 in 62 games. Let alone mostly as a 2nd/ 3rd pairing.

4) Matt Carle, your assessment of him made me make piss in my pants. First off, his shot blows; however, his skating ability and ability to move the puck effectively out of the D zone is what he does well. In addition, he can contribute on offense. But, at no point would somebody who watches this guy play say that Matt Carle is known for his shot.

Please don't start saying long snappers = faceoff specialists

Not for nothing, but maybe you should understand the dynamics of the team before spouting off such off base statements.

I've actually watched Pronger most of his career and liked the guy when he was younger. I disagree with your assessment that he's why you had a shot at the cup, though I am sure his leadership was valuable, his best playing time was behind him. Timonen I've watched for some time in his games against my boys. I once thought very highly of him, and even had him on my fantasy team, but again he's past his prime by two years in my opinion. His stats reflect more on the offensive capabilities your team now possesses, and less on his individual play. Lilja had a higher plus/minus than Timonen with 8 minutes less ice time per game, and you guys generally RAIL Lilja. Not to mention most of Timonen's points came as assists, and how many of those were primary I wonder? Granted Meszaros was hurt, but I didn't think much of him before he was a Flyer either, so it holds no prejudice that I don't think much of him now. He still got 3 more goals than Timonen in 14 fewer games. Plus 6 in 62 games isn't top notch. I guess part of my point about your defense is ... Timonen's points left him 16th in the league on defense. BUT... if you break it down to defensive play, the highest defenseman you had is Gustaffson at +12... ranking 35th in the league. And Coburn at + 10 ranking 44th. I think Coburn is your best defenseman myself, but I value defense over point production on the blue line. Timonen by comparison was 57th.

I know your frustrations with Carle defensively, but he is a creative young player who in the limited capacity I have seen has good movement and as you said can handle the puck. You're right in that I haven't seen a lot of his gaffe's that so many here knock him for, but honestly, when your boys play mine, he is the ONLY defenseman you have that worries me when he's carrying the puck into our end. And I am not alone in that thinking. He's not a slap shot guy, I know, but he's good at getting in close with the puck, and that's where most defensemen become dangerous. Maybe he steps up his play against the Pens, but right now, with your stable, he's the only guy you have that is a scoring threat on your D. He had 132 shots on goal leading all of your defensemen. (Timonen close second at 130).

These are my opinions of your players, much as you fellas give me your opinions on ours. if you think it's meant to insult you, then you need to thicken your skin. I'm simply trying to provide you with a perspective that's not wearing orange and black lenses. I've honestly posted about players you have that I like and think a lot of, and players I don't think a lot of. I'm not slamming your organization for it, it's just the facts of every team. Good, bad, & ugly on the roster.

Pronger hasn't been any good in years so you've lost nothing there. Timmonen wasn't anything to be happy with this past year, and honestly was unimpressive the past two or three. Mezaros is overrated. I think Coburn and Grossman are solid d-men and you have Carle for your PP time. I know his defense isn't great but he can shoot. I dunno the two youngers well but I'd say you need at least one solid defenseman signing.

So much for tying the record... On to game 5!

well if that's the worst i get for typing that sentence, I'll take it, had Hextall maintained that level of play throughout his career we'd have been on to something. sadly, for me his legacy is sullied by the 90ft Lemeuix slapper.

I don't think anyone thought so much of Hextall as a goalie. He got more attention from outside of Philly for his temper than he ever did for his talent. The man had huge heart, but when I was younger and watching him I actually thought he was someone that held your teams back. I considered him slighy above average at best.

I know this is a little premature because they havent won anything yet but just giving props where due. When was the last time you saw a team so completely dominant in a playoff run? I dont think even the dynasty years of the Oilers or the Islanders saw a postseason so completely dominated by a team. They could go 14-2 in their cup run. That is pretty much running the table. That is pretty astonishing. A huge tip of my cap to that organization and what they have accomplished.

They're set to tie the record for accomplishing the Cup in the least amount if games if they sweep. And will have gone through the numbers 1, 2, and 3 seeds to do it as a number 8! Impressive!

Really? It was only a little over a month ago the Pittsburgh boards were inundated with fans screaming for just about every Pens head, with Fleury at the top of the list, but Malkin right up there especially in ..,

Well I never saw the Pens forums inundated. I've never heard anyone in this city scream for Malkin's head. And those who cry for Fleury's are idiots. He had a horrible playoff yes, but is hardly the only one.

@Polaris922

No offense but you are either clueless about the Flyers organization, or you are obviously trolling to get a rise out of people.

For starters Jeff Carter was less than stellar in the playoffs for the Flyers. 21 points in 47 games is hardly clutch. In 2010 he couldn't hit a wide open net from 6' away to save his life. That could have been the difference between a Stanley Cup for the Flyers or a game 7 loss, but certainly not a game 6 loss. On top of that there were many rumors circulating about his on ice commitment vs his extracurricular social life. Lastly, the return was far too good to not trade him. Sean Couturier will be a far better player for years to come and on top of that he probably will not need Mike Richards to focus on doing his 6mm/yr job. Also, as others have stated, the Flyers organization needed to make room for their humongous big goalie contract/Russian Aerospace historian.

I'm not trying to get a rise out if anybody. I know Carter struggled in the playoffs for you and I'm aware of the questioning of his efforts. I've only recently become aware of the rumors about his off ice activities though. My point is some folks here slam the guy like he stomped his feet and insulted the Flyers organization by demanding a trade or something. I understand being frustrated that he didn't put more into his time with the Flyers but that makes him young and foolish, not a traitor.

I agree with what a few have said that the trade seems to have been an eye opener for him and forced him to mature a little.

Malkin sucks in the playoffs most years and has streaks of questionable effort, but I don't see anybody thinking he's quit on us. Naslund was a good example of a guy that sucked as a Pen but being traded opened his eyes and he grew into a great hockey player.

Some guys need a life lesson is all.

Johnson was a great backup until this past season. He really stunk this year. I kept pulling for him but I'm relieved they addressed it. He really needed to go after his recent performance.

I'd say to just remember your organization gave up on him, not the other way around. Good for him.

What could happen in his private life that requires more than his three months off to fix? Some life changing illness or whatever I could see but otherwise?? He's putting the screws to an entire organization, so it better be awfully troubling news.

The bummer is that if you are a casual fan that tuned into the first round of the playoffs (which I thought was one of the most entertaining rounds in quite a while across the board) and then tuned into the quaters, semis and now finals, You are lost and scratching your head trying to understand the game.

In some regards, I jokingly think that the NHL has a game day memo that is put on the refs white board prior to the game: today we are going to call these three things. The three things rotates game to game.

Remember post lockout, teams wanted to be built like the Sabres pre lock out. Smallish but lightning quick. The whole reason for removing the two line pass was to open it up and let the speedsters go unimpeded. Now it coming right back in. Its more blatant on the defensive side, but still occurs with the forwards in the neutral zone as well.

I don't mind the nature of the beast in competition, but if you are going to promote a sport and try to escalate it, try and figure out the style that you are going to promote and stay consistent with it.

I hate to say it, but its almost as if all the publicity with the concussions has removed the focus of the interference (hooking, holding, rub outs without the puck stuff) that was a mandate call 4 years ago.

A prime example is the dump & chase. For awhile there any attempt by a defenseman to slow the chasing forward after he dumps the puck was deemed interference. Now you'd be hard pressed to find one where there is no impeding by the defenseman.

@Polaris922

Of course Toronto also has interest. Luke Schenn is one possibility and Nazem Kadr is another. I highly doubt Pittsburgh would take an even up trade. Toronto is going to need to at least give up a high draft pick as well.

Yeah Schenn gets high marks, and I've read a lot about Kadr but not really sure what to make of that yet. Clubs are showing interest but Shero has only said he's still hoping to keep Staal alongside Crosby and Malkin.

But that impedence has been creeping back into the game for a long time and as the SC playoffs have progressed, it has been let go more and more, for the most part.

It's once again dragging a great fast paced game into the sludge. And correct its not just the Devils getting away with it. I do think the officials allow less talented rosters more leeway with it though...

@Polaris922

Apparently Buffalo is interested in trading for Jordan Staal

Now THAT looks a lot more promising than Carolina. I'd like them to go after Stafford or Vanek than Roy though. We could really use a winger more than center. Thanks for the update!

Oh, I know (well I don't have kids, and I'm not married, but still). Stupid NHL. Stupid. That punishment doesn't even make any sense! Has something like that EVER happened?

I think it was the NHL's way of saying "you're a bad boy! but it's okay..."