caluso

i am not grumpy, just realistic. 

 

it's the same garbage every year. like colorado al posted, the effort simply isn't there and, like it or not, brayden schenn is one of those players who takes way too many shifts off. 

 

to say schenn is a top 6 forward "because he is," is nuts. let's face it, schenn didn't earn that spot - he was gifted a top 6 spot because Gomer gave up a lot to acquire him. schenn doesn't play like a top 6 forward and his stats show, that on any other team, he would be no better than a third liner. schenn is on pace to score 49 points in 82 games. mediocre, at best, and certainly not top 6 numbers! schenn was given every opportunity to prove himself and has failed time and time and time again to do so. 

 

as for couturier, i really like his moxie, but his skating is so poor that i wonder how high his ceiling really is?

Ok guys, I'm a fairly patient person ( you kinda have to be to be a Philly fan ) but this has gone on way too long.  The only time we win is when our O makes up for the D.... if they don't it's no contest.

 

In any case, I'm willing to blow up the rest of the season and start building a new D.  There's been way too many turnovers and zero puck control.  Does our D even care who they pass the puck to these days.

 

Maybe it's time to pull the C and give it to someone else.   I think Zac is the only flyer these days that seems to give 100 percent 100 percent of the time.  Too bad he lacks the talent of some of our guys who seem to skate around in circles and just watch the game go by them.

 

I don't know what the answer is but something needs to be done and I'm willing to give up this season to start the process now.

 

Ok, I think I feel better now... maybe I'll even feel better after I get a drink <g>.

it's funny but i was thinking that this team has some of the dumbest group of d-men i have seen in a long time. really!

schenn, coburn, mez have such low hockey IQ's that if the wonderlic test existed in hockey, they would put up frank gore - like numbers.

Somebody's a little grumpy today, huh?

they've been playing poorly. All of them. I can't blame you.

 

i am not grumpy, just realistic.

it's the same garbage every year. like colorado al posted, the effort simply isn't there and, like it or not, brayden schenn is one of those players who takes way too many shifts off. 

to say schenn is a top 6 forward "because he is," is nuts. let's face it, schenn didn't earn that spot - he was gifted a top 6 spot because Gomer gave up a lot to acquire him. schenn doesn't play like a top 6 forward and his stats show, that on any other team, he would be no better than a third liner. schenn is on pace to score 49 points in 82 games. mediocre, at best, and certainly not top 6 numbers! schenn was given every opportunity to prove himself and has failed time and time and time again to do so. 

as for couturier, i really like his moxie, but his skating is so poor that i wonder how high his ceiling really is?

Schenn is a top six forwar folks. Sorry to break it to you.

Coots gets no respect. The dude is a monster defensively. The way he plays is HUGE. In ways that Shemn will simply never be. The fact that he's feeling his oats offensively a bit now is just a great sign. Even when he's not scoring he's showing a lot more initiative.

Recently I feel like I've even started seeing him using his size and feeling confident enough to generate some speed.

He's a good player already and is only getting better.

Schenner needs consistency. It would be great if he could play with a jagr type or a Briere type. It's too bad VLC got hurt and appears to be coming back slowly, or I think Brayden would be learning a lot from him.

Right now I wouldn't make a trade unless it was for draft posioning AND the only if there was someone I really wanted.

Nonine's trading us weber before the Olympics, so there's no immediate hole to fill. The hole is time and experience.

Now that hey have mason and razor, they actually can rebuild. This is the deal. This is what it looks like. It ain't pretty when you play the "get ba to get good" card, but that's what we're playing so we gotta own it.

 

you should be sorry to break it to us that schenn is a top 6 forward.  only on this team would that be possible.

and, what are you basing your assessment of schenn on? his play off the ice? he disappears for weeks on end even though he is playing with 2 guys who create tons of space out there for him. you say he should play with "a jagr type or a briere type". he did - and that didn't turn out so well for him. i know schenn's young but he doesn't work hard enough out there, and effort has nothing to do with experience.

as for Couturier, he has an active stick and tries hard, but his skating is very, very poor. 

Please lets ride this season out and let the young kids grow there is no miracle trade around the corner, I'd trade Mezz for whatever they can get and just let this young team take their lumps...lets try something new. Patience is needed from everyone lets the chips fall where they may....this IMHO.

The young kids are a huge part of the problem. Gomer has a lot invested in B Schenn and Couturier and both have been wildly inconsistent. I don't think either will ever be a top 6 forward. 

@brelic

 

I agree. The target is the cup. You win it and that's what matters.

 

I'm ok with what we got in return for Carter and Richards. 5 years from now it will look like highway robbery. But LA won a cup.

i agree with you, in 5 years it will look like highway robbery. i love the way simmonds plays the game - he should be our captain.

having said that, it's been so long since we won a cup ...

Trade the team,send McGinn down,Who can they bring up ??

     They lost, nothing more play better tomorrow night in New York .

 Did I miss any .You can BANK ON IT!!!!!

good thing i dodnt bank on it

I know he talks a good game and don't get me wrong.... I'm a chief fan.  but sometimes I wonder what he's doing to try to improve the D.  He can't be happy with the way they're playing right now... if we didn't have a goalie that is standing on his head to stop the puck, we'd be in very serious shape.

 

An even more serious question..... I hope he's not coaching the D to play the way they are.

the players he has to work with are terrible.

l schenn, meszaros would be healthy scratches on most teams. i cringe when i see them out there.

streit is overrated. another bad signing by Gomer.

coburn, wildly inconsistent.

that leaves timo, who is showing is age, and grossmann. 

can you say that we have a good d-corps? heck, can you say that the corps is close to average?

Absolutely right Howie, I said much the same thing in the shoutbox. Great determination and guts to get the tying goal, this team would have collapsed after the Canucks 3rd a couple of months ago. 

 

Mason was immense for us tonight, absolutely was the single biggest factor in us winning the game.

Mason has really shown me something.  He stole tonight's game!

The way he has rebounded after a few subpar outings says a lot about his makeup. 

We might actually have our goalie of the future....

I agree. real gutsy effort by a lot of guys - not named Meszaros and L Schenn.

Most time the harder you work the luckier you get. So I heard.

i couldn't agree more.

I like this.

Stated another way, good teams play to win, bad teams play to not lose.

Sometimes I think that's what in the Flyers' heads as they play.. "Ok, ok, just don't screw this up... we've got a lead, don't lose this, keep the puck away from Mason. Oh crap. Here they come."

exactly.

they don't know how to win.

and if fans on this board want to say how great they look while they are losing, they are missing the point. this is a wins and losses business.

OK,  It is clear to me that you don't care about anything but the final score. Your words, not mine. I call that ignoring the good play and only focusing on the bad.

CORRECT!

and, if you are able to understand what you read, i never talked about the first 50 minutes because i don't care. what difference does it make?

you actually care about how they look while they LOSE???????

SERIOUSLY???????????? maybe you don't know this, but you don't get style points. i repeat: you don't get style points.

and while you and aziz are talking about great they played, everybody associated with the team, is saying what a dreadful loss this was....

and just how many times did the Washington goalie get lucky? I love how you IGNORE the first 50 minutes of the game because it does not fit into your little rant. Did the Flyers stop attacking and let the Caps get too many chances and goals in the last 10 minutes...ABSOLUTELY. Won't argue that. Berube needs to correct that. If the players were so tired from the icing and previous cycle before the 3rd goal, he should have called a time out then too. But, by doing so you can't deny the first 50 minutes of the game were well played by the Flyers....definitely well enough to win if they had continued attacking the last 10 minutes instead of sitting back on their heels....

who is ranting?

who denied that the flyers played well FOR 50 MINUTES?

all i said was that bad luck was not why they lost. they lost because they stopped playing. good teams find a way to win, bad teams find a way to lose. period.

but then again, you repeated MY argument when YOU wrote:  " ... definitely well enough to win if they had continued attacking the last 10 minutes instead of sitting back on their heels....

aziz blamed the loss on bad luck, i blamed it on bad play.

w

Kid runs around the house holding a pair of scissors. He trips, falls, and hits his head on the coffee table. Mom yells, "that's why you don't run with scissors!"

The Flyers made a big mistake in not continuing to press the attack, but that did not cause a pair of low-threat shots from the point to go in. It just didn't. Running with scissors did not cause them to fall down and hit their head. Still shouldn't run with scissors, but there is a reality beneath the platitudes.

your logic is hysterical. really. thank you for making me laugh.

kids run, kids fall. kids get hurt.

if kids run with scissors, they could get really hurt.   your point?

my logic is less convoluted: if you spend less time in your own zone there is less chance of a goal being scored against you. simple!

you want a platitude that i agree with: good teams make their own luck.

by the way, mason and the flyers got very very lucky on a deflection from the point late in the third. mason got a toe on it otherwise the game would have been tied sooner. so it wasn't that the flyers were simply victimized by bad luck.

because a team on its game should allow no shots against at all??  dude, shots against are going to happen, and every now and then they'll go in.

 

look, i get it, and there certainly are times where a team backs off and gets punched in the nose for it.  i agree the flyers felt overconfident with their lead and didn't keep pressing.  they gave the caps too much time with the puck and were too comfortable just getting clears.  that can and does lead to increased offensive pressure, which causes defensive breakdowns, which leads to goals against.  give a team time to swarm and spend multiple shifts in your defensive zone, and they will eventually find a way to built a nice play that puts the puck in the back of the net.

 

thing is, that isn't what happened here.  it wasn't multiple shifts with crushing offensive pressure that caused the goals against.  it was a pair of lazy shots from the point with little set up, and one mistake by the goalie.  the flyers didn't give those goals up because they stopped pressing offensively.  they gave them up because of a couple unlucky breaks on low percentage shots and a goof behind the net.  the flyers could have been offensive hawks, with an overpowering forecheck and an airtight defensive game, but so long as they allowed two shots from the point in the entire period, those two shots could have gone in.

 

i'm not arguing against the theory of don't let up just because you have a lead.  i'm just saying that theory doesn't account for or describe  the outcome yesterday.  had it been three multi-touch passing plays leading to open onetimers from the far post, then yeah, backing off caused it.  what were essentially dump ins from the blueline, no, backing off had nothing to do with those going in.  crap for luck did.

 

similarly, btw, couturier's goal in no way comments on the capitals' overall game.  weirdo crazy goal from behind the goalline against the boards, that had nothing to do with how the 18 caps skaters were playing.  it just went in, despite best efforts (aside from the goalie).  crap for luck bit both teams yesterday.

So, bad luck cost them the game? That is a loser's lament, my friend!

Clearly, your take on the game is different than everybody else - players, coaches and fans. After the game, EVERY player and coach talked about "sitting back." Once they went up by 3, they did not generate any offense (outside of voracek having  a great chance) and spent most of the time trying to clear their own zone.

Whatever you want to say, however you want to put it, the reality is this: the more time spent running around in your own zone, the higher the likelihood of a goal agaInst. Even you must be able to see that.

According to the Hockeybuzz, the Flyers have a winning percentage of only .862 over the last two years when leading after two periods. It is clear that this team has no idea how to close out games. 

Bad luck didn't cost them the game, bad play did. 

they take the top three teams from each division, plus the next top-2 finishing teams in the conference as wildcards.  but you knew that, already.  well, maybe not, but benefit of the doubt and all....

 

given that we are on game 34 of 82, your question can only imply the outcome of the next 48 games.  on which a pair of unlucky screens and a poor clearing attempt are not likely to weight heavily.

i am not implying anything. it's very black and white: total points, not moral victories, determines who gets in and who doesn't.

but, you knew that. well, maybe you didn't...but benefit of the doubt and all.

and while they did look good for long stretches, this might be their worst loss of the year. 4-1 lead with 10 minutes to go, i do not care who you are, you have to win the game. in my opinion it's not good enough to look good - you have to achieve results because that's what you are judged by. hopefully,  you can see that.

no, it is HOW you lost.  if you lost on a pair of seeing-eye wrist shots and a blown clearance, you call it a nexus of bad luck and move on.

 

man, you people with the black and white, throw out all the details and keep your anti-nuance soap boxes handy.

no, a loss is a loss is a loss. i love your ability to think in an "abstract" manner but i have a simple question for you: how do they determine who gets into the playoffs?

use your abstract thinking skills and explain that to me....

guys, come on.  i'm not going to cheerlead, but take it for what it is.  things were fine this afternoon until a pair of screened shots and a misplay by mason.  three very specific, non-chronic events turned the game around.  the fact that grossmann was right in mason's sightline or that mason failed to get the puck on the glass doesn't say anything about the team as a whole.

 

this was a fluky game, mostly good, a couple moments of bad.  add in the shootout and they end up with a loss.  they played well, overall, though.

they blew a 3 goal lead in the third period of a game they easily should have won.

things might have been fine at one point in the game, but who cares. you are what your record says you are - not how you "look" losing.

it is clear to me that the team needs to be gutted. it is also clear to me that Gomer needs to not be in charge of the rebuild.

lastly, i think chief's precepts about how to play the game are right - he just needs better players. faster, tougher...

 Ya, it makes sense to blame the 21 year old 2nd leading scorer on the team, or the guy with the goal and assist last night.

 

 This team has a lot bigger problems than Brayden Schenn. Heck I'll take him and his brother over Hartnell and Timonen and use the extra 6 million to bring in another good player.

 

 Sure he's not great, but he sure as heck isn't whats dragging this team down. Brayden is 9th in caphit for forwards on Philly, but 2nd in points. Do you really think he's the problem? His brother is 6th in caphit for defencemen. There are a dozen players who need to get their act in gear over these two.

he is the team's second line center who has been invisible. and this, after he returned to his "natural" position. how is he not dragging the team down?

however you look at it, he certainly isn't helping the team.

has anybody seen brayden schenn?

and, if you find him, tell him to tell his brother that its bad form to keep deflecting pucks past his own goalie.

man, these guys suck.

I can't take watching Giroux coast on the back check any longer. You want to be the captain then play like it. Just can't accept that he takes parts of shifts off... Bench him.

For all the bs talk about accountability it is time to prove it. Bench him for the 3rd...

And WTF is Raffle doing on this team?

i hate to agree with you, but you are right.

it's time to start holding all of them accountable: giroux, voracek, hartnell are all continually guilty of truly horribly, lazy stupid plays - time and time again. 

oh, wait, that's our first line......

I hate to say it but this current Flyers team is the worst since the pre Lindros days.

This team is a mess, the GM is a lame duck and the coach is a brain dead Zombie

How about calling a time out in the second period as you watch the game slip past you.

Thank god for Mason, after two periods this would be 7-1 with the Bryzaster...

Gustafson sits in the press box and watches the D flail away,

F U Ed Snider.

i agree this is the worst flyers team in many years. and i agree that gomer is largely responsible for this mess.

having said that, how can you blame Berube. he has done a terrific job despite this miscast collection of idiots. seriously, this is a DUMB team, led, appropriately by their captain.  then there's hartnell, voracek, read, streit, rinaldo, hartnell (yes, again)....all with low hockey iq's.

not to mention that they are not talented. gomer has seriously overvalued certain players: giroux, hartnell, schenn x 2, voracek.

the team is not talented or smart enough to have continued success - but dont blame the Chief.

Flyerrod:  I agree they are playing a sound defensive game. But I don't think most of the shots on Pavelic were high quality. It is true the first period was 12-2 in shots. But as the game wore on the Flyers seemed to fall back on their heels. I do not see much offensive flow from this team.  Our high shot totals may not be translating into goals because they are not tough shots from with 15-20 feet.  

 

Best,

Howie

i agree with you, howie, the team lacks a consistent, 60 minute effort. their forecheck is sporadic, at best, and they lose so many little battles that i really believe they need a heart transplant. simmonds is the only guy i see busting his ass on every shift. giroux and voracek (one of my favorite players) should be ashamed of themselves for the number of shifts they take off.

and, while i applaud the chief for instilling defensive principles, those said principles mean nothing if the team doesn't work hard ALL THE TIME.

the tampa loss was really alarming because the flyers looked inept breaking out of their own zone and couldn't handle tampa's forechecking pressure - simply because they lost all of the battles along the boards. i am not exaggerating - they lost all of them. it's not rocket science here. the team that battles hardest usually wins and yet time and time again, the flyers get outworked.

i really love what the chief is doing but i really think this team needs to get grittier and tougher.  

the third line of couturier, downie and read is by far our best unit because they have the guts to battle for the puck EVERY SHIFT (and i have been one of couturier's biggest bashers). sadly, the same cannot be said of giroux, hartnell, voracek, and b schenn.

the next time giroux forgets to backcheck, he should be benched; i think that would send a message to the rest of the team.

the real punchline is that mason has been a lot better than bob so far this season, in every way but wins.  the flyers finally find their young goalie, trade him away for nothing, and then get a better one back for even less.  can't make this stuff up.

let's see about mason...