fanaticV3.0

well yes, but I never imagined he'd be skating between Zac and Adam Hall for crying out loud! did you? did anybody?

 

as to who they should've targetted - agreed. 100%. I didn't mind the Vinny signing so much because I've always liked him and St. Louis so much. I figured we're getting 1/2 of that duo so what the hell, take what we can get. And 50 pts skating 2nd line wasn't too much to dream. But I should've known better. First of all like you say another center is not what we needed. Second - I think Jammer put it best somewhere recently - we got a guy who apparently gave his heart 'n soul to another club for 14 years and now he's got nothing left for the Flyers.

No and nor should be be (full time) imo. I'm fine with him on the fourth line. It might even create some matchups in their favor. But don't play him with them all the time. It's not going to help him. Give him a bone once and a while. Playing with those two full time is just punishing him and the team.

I didn't like the terms of the contract (rarely do with Homer), but thought maybe him and Giroux could be our version of him and St. Louis. Vinny just isn't that player anymore and I don't think they ever put Giroux on the wing for longer than a minute.

well that's because they are. generally speaking anyway. who's the center on any team you played for? the best puck-handler, the best shooter. Naturally as you go up the professional ladder positions become more specialized but in general a center shouldn't have much difficulty adapating to the wing. Going the other way is hard but center>wing isn't a big "ask."

 

I don't mind saying I was dead wrong to support the Vinny acquisition. I wasn't in love the deal of course, nobody could be. But I thought we could hope he'd be a strong leader and 50pt guy (at least) no matter who he skated with. I never dreamed the guy would DOG it so much...for so long. It was like he pouted all year, whoever they put him with.

 

Maybe he deserves the benefit of the doubt because of his injuries I don't know. We can't really judge the situation without knowing the details. But if the 4th line is the only spot he can be reasonably effective then that's where he stays as far as I'm concerned.

Really? You think that's a lock no matter who he plays with or at what position?

They should have gotten a true winger - that's what we're all saying here instead of asking so many centers to play out of position. How many years have they tried that now instead of simply signing players who play the appropriate position now? It's time for another approach, no?

So, essentially, signing either of them to the deals that they got - both one year Iginla at $1.8, Alfredsson at $3.5. That's a heckuva lot different than, say, five years at $4.5M.

Alfredsson at that rate - even for one season - is not a good deal imo and I don't think you'd find many Flyers fans congratulating Homer on signing a 41-year old winger for $3.5 mil. It's not a steal or a bargain as far as I'm concerned. Iginla should have fired his agent after seeing that signing.

Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people would have been upset at signing Alfie. But, he signed at 1 year / $3.5M. Even if it were a 2-year deal, it's not the end of the world. It's manageable, in other words. Iginla signed for $1.8M. Maybe he wasn't considering anywhere else, and signed at a discount for a chance at the Cup. Still, offering him $3M or even $4M for one year on Giroux's wing would have been a much better move than VLC for 5 years. Same for Jagr. They made a mistake letting him go in the first place to chase pink elephants... so what was their excuse last summer?? 

 

We all know the issue with too many centers, which is why it's weird that they continue to sign them. 

 

For Pronger, I didn't like the deal from the day it was announced - BUT, he's all-star, HOF calibre and they don't come around too often. He filled a huge need, and no one could foresee the career-ending injury he suffered.

 

In VLC's case, it's a bad contract for a player we didn't need. That's what gets me the most. It's crazy that the honeymoon period didn't even last a full season.

To be fair to him he has been playing out of position and was one of the few players producing during their awful start.  He's been noticeably better since returning to his natural position and I don't think that's a coincidence.

I would have kept Jagr too and I don't really take issue with any of the suggestions you offer, but I don't think most of the fan base feels that way. Any time they sign someone over 30, it's doomsday (unless it's Gagne, he's somehow "worth it").

I don't know why they put so much emphasis on the center position. They seem to think they are all more versatile/interchangeable than wingers.

There were a lot of more suitable options out there. Guys like Jagr, Iginla, Ryder, Clowe (but not what he signed for!!), MacArthur, Alfie. I would have preferred a few years of Alfie or Iginla over 5 years of VLC. Or, if Homer is intent on giving out long contracts, I would have liked 5 years of MacArthur. I always liked that guy. Plays the game with an edge, scores a lot, and would have been a nice addition to a developing team. You know, the kind of piece that's in the prime of his career, not on the downslope.

 

I hear Brad Richards is a prime buy out candidate, so chances are he'll don the O&B next year. We're going 8 centers deep.

The Flyers always have too many centers. It's one of their things.

I think fans would have screamed bloody murder if the Flyers went out and signed Iginla, Alfredsson (him especially because of his age). I can just hear it now. Most fans bitch anytime you sign someone over 30. I always liked Iginla personally. Wouldn't have minded him at all. But if we signed him or Alfie to anything longer than I year I think people would be PISSED. There's people who still bitch about the Pronger deal to this day and he wasn't as old as either one of these guys and was still one of the best defensemen in the game at the time.

I actually was curious as to how you would respond to being proved wrong yet again. Name calling and insults,,,,,I wish you could see the surprise on my face when I read it. Once again, you show your true colors, those of a troll. I have had you on ignore for months because I tired of reading you petty insults every time you are zinged by your own statements. I do want to thank you for calling me the dumbest person on this board as from you, that is a compliment.

Which one of us bumped a 6 month old thread to "prove a point"? Save your crocodile tears for a time when you aren't being a hypocrite.

You are so thick, you don't even comprehend simple concepts, like how to have a conversation or form (an even somewhat) strong/informed opinions. Couturier scored his first goal on Nov. 19. It was somewhere around the 20th game of the season or so. Just so you know, that's not so good. He was, how shall I put it...struggling. He's playing better since then (offense is still so-so, but that's not the point) and is having himself a nice season. See, when a player plays better, it doesn't mean he wasn't struggling previously. It's like VLC. He's doing just swell right now, but it doesn't mean anyone criticizing him a week or two ago was "wrong". Does that make sense kiddo? I know these are difficult concepts, but I think you can do it.

Then how was Toews' left shoulder hurt? 

He doesn't drink enough milk. Fragile bones.

That's kind of where I am.  I don't see anything that indicates intent to do anything other than deliver a hit.   I still see shoulder to head, though.  I will, however, readily agree with @B21 that the league doesn't even take a second look at it.

That's because it is shoulder-to-head.

I think this was a result of the angle both players were at at the time of contact, not because of a dirty hit.

Principal point of contact is shoulder to shoulder. Legal hit. 

 

Keith Jones even said so (if others opinions on the hit matter). Heck, even Milbury conceded it was a clean hit.

F "principal point of contact", Orpik's shoulder never makes contact with Toews' shoulder period.

That being said, I don't think it was intentional.

They basically need to sign two Fs, two Ds and a backup G for next season. They've got about $11M open rightnow (capgeek, $71M cap) and then Pronger's money once he goes on LTIR again (happens every year).

 

As such, VLC's contract isn't such an anchor.

 

 

Agreed two of the three goals weren't "fourth line" goals, but I do see something of more jump in his play at the moment. He's really stepping up both on the fourth line and in his special teams opportunities.

 

Getting a little more talent on the fourth wouldn't be an awful turn of events, but I do think he is opening up ice for Hall and Rinaldo just by being there which gives them some more latitude do freelance (a la Rinaldo/Iginla).

 

I wouldn't mess with it this season - especially as it seems to be working. And having that extra depth in the playoffs could be real useful.

Oh he's definitely look better. That can't be disputed by even his harshest critics. And I'm more than ok with outside the box thinking. I don't think it happens often enough. I have no problem with him on the 4th and special teams. I'm just concerned that play with those two most of the time doesn't help. But if his special teams play can make up for that, so bet it. I love the match up problems it creates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgIgat2GBRI

 

0:52 - 0:53   It's his head.  I don't know how to answer your question about the shoulder, though.

 

When I watched the angle immediately previous to the above, I wasn't sure he hit his head AT ALL to be honest.  But watch from this angle and his head goes from round to squoosh (technical term).  

 

I'm putting my money on not even a comment from the league since Toews skated off himself.  I just don't know that I buy the "clean hit" argument.

I don't know how I feel about it. I don't think it looks particularly violent or intentional (in terms of trying to kill Toews). It looks more like incidental contact with the head because Toews is crouched down a little and Orpik is tall.

Agree to disagree.  It's shoulder to shoulder.  And both of Orpik's skates are on the ice when he makes contact.

 

It's not even a penalty to me. I don't even think the league sniffs this one. Nor should they. 

 

 

I agree that Orpik is a Penguin. That's about it.

No it isn't. Even the guys calling the game pointed it out. You can clearly see his shoulder hitting the side of Toews' head.

Well, I think we can say that this move has certainly paid dividends for the Flyers.

 

Having a $4.5M "fourth line center" isn't ideal in a capped league, but I think it's clear that the talent level the VLC still possesses is ahead of most of the talent he's going to be facing on the ice in this role.

 

He seems rejuvenated - whether from playing his "natural position" or from the kick in the pants or both. And I think he gives the "fourth" line an extra scoring threat.

 

Might also get a few extra minutes for Rinaldo and Hall, who have been pretty strong in their games since the switch as well.

 

If nothing else, I actually noticed VLC on the ice in the past two games - and in a good way.

 

Great depth for this team and they can roll lines. Could be a real benefit in the playoffs.

Well, I think we can say that this move has certainly paid dividends for the Flyers.

 

Having a $4.5M "fourth line center" isn't ideal in a capped league, but I think it's clear that the talent level the VLC still possesses is ahead of most of the talent he's going to be facing on the ice in this role.

 

He seems rejuvenated - whether from playing his "natural position" or from the kick in the pants or both. And I think he gives the "fourth" line an extra scoring threat.

 

Might also get a few extra minutes for Rinaldo and Hall, who have been pretty strong in their games since the switch as well.

 

If nothing else, I actually noticed VLC on the ice in the past two games - and in a good way.

 

Great depth for this team and they can roll lines. Could be a real benefit in the playoffs.

I think it was a wake up call for him, but I don't know if the 4th line is a legitimate long term option for him. Playing with 4th liners is not going to help his game over the long run and 2 of his last three goals were not because he played on the 4th. The one in the Boston game was on the PP and his 2nd goal in yesterday's game came on assists from Voracek and Timonen; so it was either PP again or he wasn't on the 4th. I'm ok with him playing on the 4th, but only if he's got more than Rinaldo and Hall to work with (even if that occasionally means throwing someone else on the 4th with him).

It can be effective in some cases, but I think in most cases speed kills.  I think they want to go in slow and get the goalie to blink first.   But with going slow, I think so long as the goalie has the discipline to stay put, the goalie is going to win that baring just an incredible shot (which can also be done with speed, so SKATE DAMMIT!)

 

For me, the shootout is boring enough without someone slug-walking it to the net.

It kills me. I feel like every time I watch someone take this approach is a really slow journey to the net with a really poor attempt at fooling a goalie or none at all. It's just brutal to watch.

Bump........Sheer genius I tell ya.............

You are easily the dumbest person on this board. The irony of your signature makes me laugh every time I read it.

Read missed the friggin net on his attempt! I don't understand how a professional hockey player, uncontested, fires it off the glass! Very Carter-like

Therien made a career out of it.

I didn't like VLC in the shootout. I realize he had a good game so Berube was going with the "hot hand," but I actually thought his shootout attempt was pathetic.

 

Jake had Rask beat.  Great idea on the poke check and I guess it shook Jake up, but if Jake keeps it an extra second and goes wide rather than trying to go back 5-hole, he has all of south Philly to shoot at.

 

Read...if you're trying to go high and the puck goes on edge at all, you can miss.  I don't care if it's uncontested or not.  

 

I like Raffl, but that was a pretty sorry attempt.  

 

Considering what he had coming at him, I thought Mason did well, but man Bergeron deked him out of his cup.

 

All that said, I HATE THE SHOOTOUT.

Agreed. So was Raffl's. I have noticed this since the Olympics, but what's with this new tactic of skating to the net as slow as humanly possible during the shootout? Seems like a pretty sh!tty strategy.

LOL!!!  that line made me laugh!

 

I agree as well... It is a bad situation...

At least give the guy somebody like Downie or McGinn. I know nobody is please with how he's playing, but Christ, that's not going to change putting him with those two guys. It'd be like throwing Rinaldo on the PP because he's been trying really hard.

very valid point fanatic... although, I dont think this is a "funk" honestly.  I think this is what VLC is at this point of his career... 

I think that's certainly possible, but I still don't think Rinaldo and Hall help him in any way, shape, or form. He needs "something" to work with. You have to create lines that - in theory - have a chance at working. Two muckers and an a washed up 1st line center is an awful combination. If one of those muckers had the slightest  bit of scoring touch, that'd at least be something.

Well, I said "clearly intelligent", not particularly. A niggling point, but a fair distinction to make, imo. It would probably have been more accurate to say that he comes across as being intelligent. With Avery, I saw a guy who thought outside the norms which hockey has established, even to the point of the NHL creating a rule so that nobody else would try what he did. Other than that, he's a guy who worked as an ad exec after retirement. He did the Vogue internship during the summer, when most players are happy to hang out at the cottage, and why? He thought it would be interesting. I'm not saying he's going to win a Nobel for curing cancer or anything like that, and I'm definitely not confusing intelligence for wisdom. There's little evidence of that as far as it goes with Avery.

I don't see how waving a stick in front of a players face is a sign of intelligence, let alone a clear or obvious one.

I think his interest in fashion is just that an interest. He was given those opportunities because of his celebrity status, not merit. Neither of these make him seem smart imo, just fortunate.

In theory I have no problem against demoting a struggling player. But if the goal is to get him out of his funk, Rinaldo and Hall aren't going to help him do that.

Great post. Seriously.

 

Chad Johnson could be a starter on a number of teams IMHO. A career 0.926 SV% and a GAA of 2.02.

 

I owned him in my keeper for years, if you can believe it, because I thought if he ever got the shot at a No. 1 he could do it. The Bruins were smart to grab him and give him a one-way deal.  He's in his prime and I don't believe he has any real bad injury history.

I'll bite. Then why isn't he?

Sean Avery... Was the Eddie Stanky of the NHL. A clearly intelligent guy, but not liked because he was a straight jackass.

In 1950, Stanky was playing third for the Giants, when he came up with the exact same idea which Avery later struck on: just as the pitch was about to be thrown, he started jumping up and down and waving his arms in an attempt to distract the batter. The umpires told him to cut that crap out. Naturally, he told them there was no rule regarding this, ignored them, and after a week of him doing it, the league finally officially made a rule prohibiting jumping around like an ass on the base paths.

Or, there was 1945, where he came up with an idea to score from third on pretty much any fly ball. Before the ball was caught, he positioned himself several feet behind third base and started running so that he perfectly timed tagging up and was already in a dead sprint. There was no rule against doing this, so as far as Stanky figured it, he was going to do it. The next thing you knew, a bunch of guys across the league were doing the same thing, so Major League Baseball closed that loophole after the season ended.

I'm curious what makes you think he's particularly intelligent?

I didn't understand the signing then and I hate it now. I would have rather had Briere since he only has 1 more year left on the contract I believe.  Briere would have been the lessor of two "evils".

Don't understand the signing or the contract? Homer's contracts never make sense, it's easily his biggest flaw, but I get why they did it. They need veterans players. They still do to be honest. But he always signs players for too much and too long.

If you would have said Jagr I'd agree, but I want no parts of Briere. He's worse than Lecalvier.

I haven't said it in ten minutes and I have to make quota, so what the hell: VLC SUCKS

The funny thing? I'm on my phone. I typed in "VLC" and it suggests "sucks" for the next word.

AHAHAHAHAHA!

@King Knut  Very frustrating waiting for this guy to produce, looks lost out there.....either hurt, disinterested or a combo of both, either way, a clusterf**k of a situation!

That's nothing new. We always have at least one of them.