KjellShocked

17 years for a 27 year old is only 2 years longer than 7 years for a 35 year old.  Just sayin'. 

 

Different lengths. Same tactic. Same intent.  One punished (and reduced).  One not.

I hate to agree with Pens fan but what you said is spot on.  I didn't have a problem with what the league was trying to accomplish but if the Debbies deserved a fine and forfeiting a 1sr round pick then the Flyers deserved something as well.

Simmons is quickly becoming one of my all time favorite Flyers which is saying a lot.

@CoachX

"It may appear that way, but it is not the case. I don't have individual problems with people on here unless they are Pissburg fans. Since I have been tattled on and had my pee-pee smacked, I can not address those individuals in a manner I feel is appropriate. With that said, let's move on."

That's fair enough. Moving on.

"In an attempt to clarify (yet again), my point is not that the Flyers are doing everything right, or that Rad, you or FC are wrong. What I am trying to say is it gets old that no matter what move they make it is met with a barrage of criticism tainted with self righteous indignation."

I thought you moved on?

"Briere is gone. Bryzgalov is gone. Did either of them cost us Giroux, Couturier, Simmonds or Schen? Was Richards or Carter lost due to these siginings? Is the team cap strapped and not able to make a move? the answer is no. My point is more about negativity being the predominant feel and emotion. Its exhausting!"

Yes - Briere and Bryz are gone but only through the good fortune of the compliance buyouts. In short, Homer was very lucky. No buyouts and they are still here siphoning $11 million of our cap space and likely impacting extensions for Giroux, Courturier, Read, etc, down the road. You also need to ask yourself what other moves we could have made had those players not been signed. Where the negativity comes from is that once again - despite a "get outta jail free card - two actually - Homer does the same thing again with Streit and Lecavalier. Those are short term fixes with little chance of long term success. If we were ** this ** close to a Cup I'd be all for them but this team is not a serious threat as they are built right now. If you are happy with "good - not great" then I can understand your reasoning but there is nothing wrong with taking a step or 2 back now so we can take 3 or 4 steps forward in a few years. Moves like Pronger, Briere, Bryz, Streit, Lecavalier - even Hartnell - are 1 step foward now and 2 steps back in a few years and still no Cup.

The Cup should be the organization's ultimate goal. Not just contending every year. That's easy.

When Vinny & Streit score on the pp this year you are to remain seated and not happy...

Four years from now when Vinny and Streit are on IR, on pace for career lows, both - 20 and both counting against the cap because there are noooooooooooooooooooooo more buyouts, you must come back and remind us all how smart these deals were.

You can do so when we celebrate the 43rd anniversary of our last Cup.

@CoachX

"So go back and read the thread when Voracek was signed. It wasn't nearly as bad as this but you will see more people saying it is a good value contract, then it being a great deal for the franchise. You will also read people who think it was too much for a guy who never scored twenty goals in a season, and some who wanted a shorter term with RFA on the end of it."

What little "negativity" there was about the Voracek signing was dwarfed to what's out there regarding Streit, Lecavalier, et al. - as it should be. That's my point. Feel free to check out the threads when Simmons signed, too. Talk about a love fest - as it should be. It was a great signing. Ditto Emery and the other deals that jammer mentioned.

"again the point is not about having an opinion, but about having an arrogant, "I am smarter than the GM" opinion."

Sounds like you have an issue with another poster and the way they state their case. FC said almost the exact same thing as radoran...yet you didn't seem to have nearly as big an issue with him. At the end of the day, they are both right. You even said so yourself. Your first line to FC was "I agree with everything you said". Well, he said the same thing radoran did. Your problem seems less about what was said than who and how they said it.

"I would stick my neck out and say Homer knew what he was doing when he traded for jake, and then signed him for four years.Ifhe had given him a NTC/NMC, the ensuing riots would have been devastating"

Except that he didn't give him a NTC or NMS so there weren't riots. If he had, he would have been rightfully criticized for it. Those who would have been critical would not have been smug and arrogant. They would have been right.

@ jammer

Yes we all want a cup. That's obvious. It's not like they don't try.I don't really remember them winning one . Too young. I became a fan in the 80's and I'm still a huge fan. Do they make mistakes? Obviously, but they try their best every year. Successful or not I'm here rooting for them.

No one is saying they don't try and no one is even hinting that they are going to stop rooting for them.

They are being critical of the same mistakes being made over and over and over again all with the same result.

The point is, everytime the Flyers make a big signing, this board goes nuts with opinions of how it will ruin the team and tie them down to a player the will never be able to get rid of, at the cost of young players they will never be able to keep. In a large number of those cases, its nothing more than emotional panic without foundation. The team seems to find a way to manage the cap and player contracts to prove these opinions false. I used Briere as one example where it was opined that the tea made a huge mistake that would cost them the future and they would never be able to get rid of him and his cap hit.

I was not making the point in relation to Cup victories, just team management.

As for the Cup, yes, the Flyers have not won since 75. You want to call that faliure, go ahead. I won't argue. But I look at things differently. After their last title, the next 13 titles were won by only three different teams that for the most part, dominated the league. No teams in the league could win during that time. The Flyers had some good teams that fell short. Do they need a goalie? Yep. Again no arguement. But how many Roy's and Broduer's are out there for the taking.

To sum it up, I'm happy with the moves the team makes because it keeps me interested and tells me they are constantly trying to get there. I don't need to criticize and analyze every move they make.

Funny. I don't recall the board going nuts over the 4 year deal they gave Voracek or the 6 year deal that they gave to Simmonds. Maybe it's because these were players who were just reaching their prime or maybe it was because the team did not overpay.

Were it not for the good fortune of the new CBA and the lockout we'd still be saddled with Briere and Bryzgalov. That's some real good "management" right there. So given two "get out of jail free" cards our GM goes out and does the same thing with Streit and Lecavalier. At least Streit addressed a need.

You call it trying to get there. I call it stupid.

Read up and you'll see that the moves that were criticized the most due to all that "emotional panic" turned out to be worthy of the criticism. Hartnell. Bryzgalov. Briere. Carter. Pronger.

So when the same thing happens again and again and again, the criticism is more than warranted.

If we are being fair, gotta count the Marchand hit, too. From behind. Defenseless player.

I was ecstatic when I saw the report but rapidly downgraded to cautiosly optimistic. This will be an agonizing 7 days waiting to see if the Preds will match. If we get Weber it does mean a couple things. I think that it almost 100% means that Pronger will be done (although I salivate with the vision of a healthy Pronger and Weber on the blueline)

I don't recall all the rules associated with RFA Offers but is it possible that the Predators could decline to match the offer and trade Weber to the Flyers in exchange for roster players? If that is the case I almost wonder now if that means the Schenn brothers would go to Nashville?

I was right there with you. "Wow!" followed by "it would be nice but....". Nashville almost needs to match to hit the salaryfloor. Plus, with a hit just over $7,000,000 I think Homer almost made the offer too easy for Nashville to match. The annual hit is less than Suter! That's mind boggling.

I'm OK with it. I think it tells Bryz that he's the man.

And I think that this paves the way for one of the kid goalies to step in as the back-up next year.

$50+ milion over 9 years tells Bryz he's the man. Short of bringing in a young Bernie Parent, that's not changing.

I wish I were as optimistic about the back-up situation moving forward but until we can actually develop a young netminder I don't hold out hope for any of the kids we drafted. Bob was a nice find but when he left he was pretty much the same goalie we signed.

Good point, but it's not like the Coyotes are a perennial playoff team. Last year was their first playoff series win ever?

They had a great season & a nice run in the playoffs, but he has to know that he actually has a better shot with the Flyers than he does in PHX.

I do expect him to stay in PHX, but there is a lot of uncertainty there. Wouldn't shock me to see him leave. And he would be a great fit with the Flyers.

They subtracted Bryz. We added him. Some would argue us getting to the second round was a "nice run", too.

I'm not sure yet if these rumors about free agents shunning the Flyers because of Bryz are true but if they are you can bet Doan is not coming here.

@RonJeremy

In lieu of overpaying, Homer should be happy with the moves. He added depth at F and D, and moved a non-functional component (JVR) into a physical righty top 4 defenseman - which many people suggested categorically they wanted.

Blockbusters? Nope. Any worth pursuing? Not in my opinion, yet.

I don't think I buy this "depth" argument. We lose Carle and add Gervais and Schenn. We lose JVR and Jagr and add Fedotenko.

That's losing depth at F. As for the D, +2 - 1 doesn't mean depth. If we lose a good player and replace him with an average player and what amounts to a spare part, did we really add depth? Carle fits our system right now. Schenn really doesn't so I can't say we "improved" there.

We play an up-tempo style that requires our D to have at least ** some ** offensive skill and we just replaced one of our better ones with Darien Hatcher-lite.

@intheslot

Doan isn't signed. Carle isn't signed. Weber is a RFA. Ryan is an option.

I would like to see Ryan or Doan in Philly and sign Carle if you can get him a the right price. My first preference would be to sign Weber to an offer sheet. It would have to be pretty obscene though.

I'd prefer Doan to Ryan only because I think Ryan will cost either Courturier or B. Schenn (having to initital which Schenn is becoming annoying). If we can get Ryan without giving up either one of them, I'm alkl for it. I just think the price will be too steep.

Then again, I think Doan stays in the desert.

I doubt if we will be getting Parise or Suter this off season and with the loss of JVR, Jagr and Carle do you really think our Phantom Scrubs are going to replace them??

Did you watch the last game of the finals against N?J? (It took me a few weeks) Lots of kids running around is what i saw.

Are you willing to have a season like the Phillies in order to have the slim hope of landing Shea Weber??

If Suter is going o get $8 mil how much would you pay for Weber???

I doubt we get Suter and or Parise but when the dust settles, we do resign Carle. Maybe at a higher number than we like but such is life when it's an offseason where supply does not equal demand. I'd reather have Carle and $1,000,000 more than expected than no Carle at all.

I agree; it's getting disgusting. As much as I would like to add them both, I have lost all the respect I had for them. While I can undertsand they want to make sure they make the right decision, this attention-whore behavior is not becoming of a professional athlete. And really, how much time do they really need? 48 hours not enough? Please........ I'll say the FLyer re-sign Carle, go out and get Doan, and we are good to go. It's not ideal, but this is ridiculous. The way these 2 players are basically asking the teams to bend over for them is sickening.

So exactly what have they done to warrant being called attention whores? And how are teams being asked to "bend over" for them? Because they need a few days to decide?

4 days and stringing the teams along

Going home to hide out

Giving an interview that ends up on the rumor site

Why talk to anybody except the GMS and your agent and your family/fiancee/dog/ or garbage man? This whole process is revolting, manipulated, more like some Diva than a hockey player

Boy, what the hockey world wouldnt pay to wire tap these guys over the last few months and potentially find out the collusion and how staged this is.

I hate to cast stones at fellow Americans, but do you think someone from Smith Falls Ontario or Wilcox Saskatchewan ( who went to Notre Dame there and came up through that hockey program) would be pulling this frelling nonsense? ( Reference to Farscape 4 letter word there)

Hope they both have lousy overpaid cap strangling remainder of their careers on a Western Conference team that never makes the finals

Ignorance is bliss I guess. Sorry but "drama queens" is a bit much. If anything the only "drama queens" are the media who feed the rumor mill and the fans of teams who think these guys owe us an answer on our time. I'm following Parise more than Suter (live in north NJ so have seen him a lot more). He's 27. It's his first (and likely last) big career decision. He's engaged. He's going to have a family. God forbid the guy take a few days to decide not only what team is the best fit but where his kids will grow up and go to school. He's already said publicly that money will have very little impact on his decision. The guy held an impromptu press conference on Monday to let the media know he needed more time to decide then the guy gets ambushed in the airport yesterday by the Wild beat writer (Russo) on his flight home. I guess that's his fault for flying coach. He talks and you cricize him. If he blew off the reporter my guess is you'd criticize him.

Frankly, I'd take 1,000 Zach Parises on my team and not think twice and I wouldn't care how long it takes him to decide.

Why should a potential employee choose to be paid less with other outstanding factors similar? It's not like the owners hand out bonus bucks or free housing. Free agency is a players chance to secure their future lifestyle in one shot. Good for them, I wish I had the opportunity myself.

Loyalty really did a lot of good for Borque, Gagne, Ryan Smith, Jeff Carter, Mike Richards, Sundin, etc in different ways.

I agree. I don't think it's a big deal that they want to take an extra day or two to decide. If it's all about the money, they would have decided by now.

The extra time - i/m/h/o - tell's me that Parise's heart may be in NJ and/or Minny but his head is telling him to take a little less for a better chance to win.

OK, WIP just confirmed that the Flyers indeed offered both Parise *and* Suter signing contracts. For those out of town, WIP is a local sports radio show.

So this is not coming from Eklund or some other BS source. This is official. They will not report somehting that has not been confirmed.

Wow....... Is all I can say....... Seat tight folks. Something might happen very soon they say.

I dunno. It sounds skeptical. WIP's cred is a shade above Eklund - which isn't saying much. I find it hard to believe we'd offer contracts totalling $15 to $20 million per year when we have about $10 million in cap space not counting Voracek and Pronger once the season starts.

Maybe this is Snider floating details to drive up the price but I'd shocked if we offered BOTH of these guys long term deals like what's been reported.

Media and fan impatience / abuse. It's really getting out of control. I know I myself am guilty at Bryz.

Carchidi and Pinocchio need their press credentials revoked though..,

That probably is factors into the decision of some players but not many. Guys have different reasons for wanting to play in certain locations. I don't see us as being any better or worse than we were 5, 10 or even 20 years ago. Usually it boils down to money and a chance to win. We have both.

He's going to Edmonton. Its hard to wish this kid a ton of success due to this freaking dog and pony show.

Really? Not the kid's fault. He didn't make the rules regarding the draft and free agency. He's publicly said he wants to earn his spot. Like any free agent, he is trying to find the best fit. The "requesting of ice time" looks like it was a rumor. I have no problem with how this played out. The media and fans of other teams love to kill guys in his spot. Nothing but jealousy from those whose teams weren't in the race i/m/o.

http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=636627

This is really not so bad for the Pens. Cap hit is the same as his current deal, and he's not over 35 so if he is forced to retire Pitt is not on the hook.

Yeah - I was thinking the same thing. Really, this plays out 1 of two ways. Either he stays healthy and the Pensies keep arguably the best player in the league at well less than market value for the forseeable future OR he gets rocked 1 or 2 years into the deal and hangs up the skates. Maybe the Pensies have to deal with 1 or 2 years of LTIR nonsense if he has concussion issues in the first few years but that's a risk worth taking. If he has concussion issues towards the end of the deal well then - who cares. He's at the end of the deal and you had 8-10 years of him at less than market value.

I'll give him credit - he is leaving about $36 million on the table over the life of the deal. That's easy - I should say easiER - to do when you when you make over $100 million during the same time. Still - $36 million is a lot of drachma.

@KjellShocked

Parenteau had a whale of a contract year...so his price might be inflated.

though some of that could be Moulson , Okposo and Tavares helping that team turn the corner too. I think he'd be serviceable and the price could be right.

I'm kind of hoping for minimal roster changes until next year, weber can be had for money next year and signing a guy for 2.1 for 3/4 years makes that a more realistic possibility.

I liked how Giroux and Voras played on the PP in the playoffs, he might be ready to step into the Jagr role and Parenteau could slot in on the 2 nd

@mojo1917

@jammer2

Funny - as soon as I posted that I thought "actually he would probably cost more." I don't think he's worth $6 million/6 years. But you are right - someone may be stupid enough to give him that. The pitch to him would be a chance to win a Cup, play with Giroux, play in front of big crowds, etc etc.

I think he'd be a good fit if the price is right.

Finnish God of Defense - LMAO at that one.

And there's the rub. I don't think we need Bobby Ryan, but OTOH I do think he'd be a beast on a line w/Giroux and Hartnell. So, yeah, it'd be great, but no, it's not essential compared to one more really solid defenseman to replace the Finnish God of Defense. So if the cost is too high, so be it. Don't do it. The Flyers will still score goals. Couturier and B. Schenn should, to my mind, not be part of that deal. But you know Homer will think about it, if that was the asking price.

Oh it's definitely nice to dream about and I by no means want to keep anyone from dreaming. But Ryan for a late 1st, Harry Z and Read is a dream of the wet kind.

and there's the answer i'm looking for, no way do i trade either of those guys for Bobby Ryan.

nope.

that said with JvR now in Toronto, we will need to resign Jagr ? or fill that top line wing or 2nd line wing with a good NHL player and not Mike Testweiude

Reading the last few days it seemed like B. Schenn/Courts were the 800 lbs. gorilla in the forum when it came to discussing a Bobby Ryan trade.

To answer your question - kinda - we need to "re-sign" Jagr's replacement.

Any thoughts on PA Parenteau? He's a UFA. His numbers were comparable to Jagr's last year and he's 10 years younger which means his legs won't be cement by the time the playoffs roll around.

He made $1,250,000 last year. I doubt it would take $3,000,000 to get him.

@Navyhockey

too beaucoup for boom boom wit soul brova...

4 guys for Ryan... he's not sydney crosby.

he's already told the ducks he's sick of them not committing to him, i would offer a player and a pick, or two players the ducks aren't in a position of strength either.

i don't think suter wants to come to philadelphia so while that sounds nice, i don't think we can offer enough quid to change his mind

@everybody

do we really need bobby ryan on this team ?

what is a reasonable offer for him ?

I think a lot of us are trying to overvalue what we have to offer for a guy like Ryan. Remember all the JVR, Bob and whatever for (Insert Star Player)? Look what we got for those guys. Bourdon is a marginal prospect...at best. Harry Z? Meh. Our 1st round pick is sure to be a later one. Read? Sure he had a nice year but he was an undrafted free agent with not much pedigree to show that last year "could" be nothing more than a career year. I wouldn't be shocked if he at least duplicated last year's numbers. Then again, I wouldn't be shocked if we saw a big drop either.

I guess my point is some combination of those players and our 1st - heck, all of those players and our 1st - can surely be beat by someone else.

Plus, I don't think Anaheim is dealing from weakness - at least not with the Flyers. They know how much we'd love to have him and can hold that over us. Sounds like we'd be his first choice but he's so fed up with the Ducks he go just about anywhere and be happy about.

None of us want to think it but if we want to land Ryan, the conversation starts with Courts and/or Schenn. And go from there. Personally, we need D before we needed Ryan so I don't part with what it would ACTUALLY take to get him.