GratefulFlyers

btw that .875 is a gigantic reason for the collapse - and it is on the goalies. Hart's departure marks the turning point where Ersson was 17-3 I think with a .930 and afterwards he's 9-13. I'm guessing at his W/L record but it should be close.

The Flyers had a huge strength with Hart/Ersson. The Flyers' game - the transition game, where they did 90% of their damage to the opposition - keyed off good goaltending. When that became a liability it all snowballed downhill. The quick outs disappeared, led to fewer goals off the rush, plus now the opposition gets to play half the rink instead of starting behind their own net.

Bad goaltending - Hart leaving - doesn't explain it but it's a huge part of what we're seeing...except for the Montreal game. God only knows what explains that.

29 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@GratefulFlyers

amazing what an .875 save percentage, injuries and clown-show histrionics can do.

 

The business with Couturier was/is really puzzling to me.  

Not sure what the desired outcome was, but alienating the only top 6 centerman on the team couldn't have been near the top of the list.

 

For weeks now Ersson has not been very good but we all know Save% and GAA are team numbers. I'm not exonerating him or Fedotov, not at all. I still think (hope) Ersson can be a reliable NHL starter but he's obviously not one now.

"clown-show histrionics" - you're referring to benching Couturier? So soon after naming him captain was absurd, made Tortorella look stupid I agree. OTOH did anyone think Couturier was earning even 4th line minutes? I can't get too worked up about it. I'm sure his feelings were hurt but "alienated" good god I hope not.

This is an interesting thread but it presupposes the Flyers are a regular NHL team with regular problems. I'm not sure they are; their problems seem deeper to me than who's on the roster and who's the HC. Maybe I'm overreacting to the blowouts, maybe I'm finally catching on that the Senior Advisors' stink is still all over this club. All I know is a team that rolls over like that has serious issues. They're playing even worse than they did in Giroux's final season. I thought for sure that was rock bottom but it wasn't.

So it's hard for me to imagine regular, normal changes doing much good. I wish I knew what would.

16 minutes ago, Samifan said:

but I was expecting more especially after the first 20 minutes of his Flyer career.

LOL!

Flyers' fans don't mess around you can't cut it in the first 20 minutes Get Lost!

18 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

Do I believe the Flyers weren't talented enough to keep the pace up all year long? Who did? Did you seriously think they could continue playing the way they did for 82 games plus playoffs? 

I did but only bc I knew they weren’t relying on talent they were doing it “by committee” as they say. The committee was broken up just a bit at the TD, then the injuries but lord I still believed they’d beat Chi, Columbus. And if they lost I certainly didn’t expect a freaking blowout!

You make a lot of sense re: Tortorella’s approach but I still can’t believe “exhaustion” explains this total collapse. 

That stadium is quite nice though….well it was when it opened anyway I haven’t been there in a long time.
 

I agree tanking sucks…sucks the life out of everyone. But trading for the overall 3, 4 or 5th pick is a tough ask (forget the overall 1st and 2nd) so if @flyercanuck is right and teams absolutely must have those top prospects to win the Cup how do we get them? 
 

I think he’s wrong but I’m not exactly brimming with confidence that Jones and Briere can pull off what they said they want. Let’s face it the odds are slim the Flyers win the Cup in the next 5 years. That so many other teams share the same lousy odds is no comfort. 
 

But building a Cup champ by tanking is at least a 5 year project. So as you can tell I don’t know what I want lol!

Thanks. But baseball is way too sleepy. Sleepy to play (90%) and sleepy to watch. I couldn’t possibly read about it lol!

Still I know you’re right. Sure it can get worse. I don’t really want them to BITFU but I’m beginning to wonder…maybe it is the only honest rebuild, the only shot at building a champ. I hope not bc KJ and DB ain’t interested…

3 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

This season is a prime example....he squeezes everything out of the team until the playoffs are in sight, then everyones so exhausted from playing "playoff hockey" for 70 games, they're done.

It’s hard to imagine you really believe this. You’re saying the collapse was inevitable, that Tortorella drained them of all their energy and now they’re simply too weak and exhausted to play responsible hockey, not even against Chicago or Columbus (who had 10 AHL guys on the ice Sat night). What’s more he did it deliberately bc according to you Tortorella’s too stupid to realize what he’s doing. That really sound plausible to you? He’s that bad of a coach?

****** I ask you to consider this:

We know the Flyers lack talent, high-end “star” talent and finished talent, i.e. journeymen types at their peak. Wouldn’t any good HC implement a system that demands rigorous 2-way games from all his players? Backchecking, active sticks and bodies on D…if his team has good footspeed he’ll want quick transitions. Etc. 
 

Isn’t that basically how the Flyers played this year? And didn’t it work even better than expected? Yet from your POV whatever the man touches turnstoshit. You know I respect your opinion but I don’t know where to go with this one. 
 

edit: I wanted to acknowledge your description of Tortorella’s personality and his approach rings true from years’ past, which is why I was when the Flyers hired him. I don’t believe it’s an accurate portrayal today. Maybe he is the wrong HC for the Flyers but not bc of “drama” since there hasn’t been any. And I may be wrong but I think his My Way or the Hwy stance is a thing of the past.

On 4/7/2024 at 9:30 AM, mojo1917 said:

I don't feel bad about this season at all.

Columbus got to me in a big way. I'm ready to join the BITFU crowd.

Seeing the Flyers go limp after a season of fighting and winning so many battles...that they couldn't summon the strength to fight for a PO spot... I don't know anymore...maybe Blow It Up is the right call.

3 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

The proof is in the Flyers half a f***ing century WITHOUT a cup!

I know... Soon the Flyers won't even have their names on the Cup ... not sure exactly when but the Cup is almost full and the '70s winners are next...

I share a lot of your anger, negativity etc. about the Flyers' past but let's forget the past. What's happening now? I think they are trying something different now. Yes there's elements of rinse/repeat, certain trades and non-trades, but these must be balanced with management's publicly-stated goal of building a Cup champion - a first for the Flyers.

You can say "just words" but words matter. They create expectations and they're new - alien even - to this fan base. This is a huge change for the organization. No they didn't mail a letter asking for patience but they said as much in every presser since Briere took over.

4 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

Stinking up the rink for ? years? What do you think they've been doing for decades?

Not stinking up the rink the way I meant. We know the Flyers' PO record but at least they have a PO record. Is it possible your negativity is blinding you a bit? You certainly can differentiate btw the bottom feeders and the Flyers. Like your evaluation of Tortorella. Every... single... reference... you make to him is negative. Man alive nobody is that wrong!

5 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

I've listed multiple times how almost every single cup winner over the last couple of decades has a 1st or 2nd overall, or both, or multiple...we currently have none. The direction the team is going tells me we won't be getting any.

They can trade for them can't they? Never heard of a GM trading the overall 1st or 2nd but 3, 4 and 5 could be pried loose. Those picks would come dear; maybe it takes Konecny to land one. But Briere is no dummy; he's shown balls (Michkov), patience and creativity (Gauthier->Drysdale) in his rookie year. A deal like that is a long-shot to be sure but no more than stinking up the rink for ?-years hoping for top 5 picks.

10 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

He's also due a big raise after next year.

Big raise? Nah. A 20% bump puts him at $6.6mil. That seems right to me. Term, I hope he ends his career in Philly.

11 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

He'll turn 29 in the 1st year (of what, 7 or 8 year?) and his game will begin its decline shortly after.

"decline shortly after" I don't know about that. Has TK hit his ceiling yet? 5 years from now he'll be 32. Marchand is 35, has 66 pts this year (w/out Bergeron) and he's still a gigantic PITA to play against. Marchand didn't start putting up 30-goal seasons until he was 27. TK turned 27 last month. Give TK a Bergeron and he'll have 85+ seasons too.

It's all about the contract.

O*****T*****O*****H

Trading Konecny is really starting over. It's a drastic step but maybe it's their best bet. Last night broke my fan spirit. Starting over can't look worse than this. 

2 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

You'd think, after several decades of this nonsense, it would be time to tear it all down and start fresh. 

 

But maybe THIS time it'll work. 

 

We all know it won't.

but the point is it's not like other years. it's not "this again."

Sure you can interpret every trade and non-trade as service to the Gospel According to Holmgren but I just can't believe you don't see the difference. Here's the most obvious one: the current management has stated explicitly...time and time again "We're not mortgaging the future for a PO appearance" and "We are trying to build a team that can win the Cup, multiple Cups."

Never - not once in 40+ years of following the Flyers has anyone in management said these things. Ever. Of course you're entitled to think they'll never get there the way they're going. But their intention is clear and deserves some respect. Not blind loyalty or rose-colored glasses. Just a fair shake. Jones and Briere have been on the job a year I'm thrilled their goal is to build a champion. Now let's see if they can do it - is that too much to ask?

5 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

So yeah seeing them struggle down the stretch I sure hope doesn't make them say "yeah we need to give that guy his 4.5 mill for the next 5 years" now.

gotta admit this worries me too. I like Walker but they can't sign more 30-year old D-men. I want the D to resemble the forwards - 80% young guys and a couple veterans. TK is one and I guess Couturier is the other. Atkinson has to go...somewhere. The D has Seeler and Ristolainen already that's enough older guys. Hopefully Briere can unload Ristolainen this summer.

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

I want a rebuild, not a "well, we're sort of rebuilding but trying to make the playoffs"  which is what the Flyers are doing. 

They're only doing this if you start your clock in Jan. before Hart left. The way you characterize it it's like they set out in Sept to make the POs. But you know that's not true.

In mid-January it was clear the Flyers would make the POs. All they had to do was go .500 the rest of the way. But still Briere refused to make a PO run the priority at the TD. He traded away nothing of value besides a 4R pick IIRC.

So they find themselves the 3 seed at the TD what should they have done purposely miss the POs? Is that realistic? I understand you would've done things differently from the beginning but let's keep the record straight: they're trying to make the POs now because they have no choice. And it looks like they screwed it up anyway...

9 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

We have to ask the question: Do they want to rebuild just enough to attract fans to buy tickets?  Or do they want to rebuild to win a Cup?  Looks to me like it was the former, not the latter.

well they’re saying they’re going for Cups you kinda have to either believe them or not. Before everyone chimes in with “yeah but …” I don’t disagree they’ve made moves that are easy to knock. I’d only say give it a couple years … like they’ve been saying it will take. 

haha that's a good one OC!

weren't the Flyers' odds of making the POs something like 75% at one point - and not too long ago (it seems)? Now it's gotta be way down I'd be surprised if they're even at 20% after this shitshow tonight.

18 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I'm wondering if maybe they should have acquired a veteran over the summer and let Ersson play a full schedule in Lehigh Valley.

Yeah I mean with hindsight it's an easy call but it did seem like a workable tandem going into the season don't you think? Hart #1 and Ersson #2.

When Ersson found his form suddenly they were 1/1A and maybe that was a mistake. I don't remember how they split the games but I'm sure Ersson's workload went up. Hart was playing just okay so I think they turned to Ersson without much care. Then Hart leaves and apparently Dilly/Torts are okay throwing Ersson into the fire. They gave Petersen a game (or 2) and Sandstrom 2 or 3 ... and that was it for the backups till Fedotov.

37 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

He's never played more than 40 games in his career and between last year and this year, he's played in 100+ games.

Jeez! So nobody should be shocked to see Ersson, in his 46th start of the season get outplayed by Columbus' backup. This is starting to feel like Bobrovsky all over again...Ersson has no waiver eligibility to screw up but they're overworking another excellent rookie goaltender. When Briere signs a veteran goalie this summer ... as long as he's not a Cosmonaut.

Trading TK will bite them back hard, as bad or worse than any trade in Flyers history. Konecny is a unique player - like Brad Marchand - and he'll leave a huge hole production-wise and every other -wise. Plus he's half the reason I watch the Flyers! I'd hate to see him go.

Imagine TK skating with an "elite" center no question in my mind he's a 40+ goal scorer.

Good lord 6-1 in Columbus... never mind trade everybody starting with Konecny. Fk it.

5 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

And I'm not worried about Ersson turning into Sandstrom. Ersson is burnt out.

I was hoping maybe the 4 days rest were enough for him to recharge but obviously not. I still see plenty to like about his game. If he figures out how to get over the ~30-game wall he could be a helluva good #1 imho.

12 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

Our goalies....depressing.

the whole team ... they haven't been the same since Hart left. Earlier in the year when they went down 2-0 even 3-0 I always felt sure they'd claw back and get to OT at least. Past couple months it's a whole different feel... they're back to the Fragile Flyers I guess.

edit: Lycksell finally gets to celebrate his first NHL goal - it puts the Flyers right back in the game - you know the next shift they'll be all over the forecheck pressing for another goal and instead the Blue Jackets score. Talk about a backbreaker...

5 minutes ago, flyerrod said:

no life in the Flyers as a whole so far.

whaddya mean they're fighting for their PO lives can'tcha tell? Neither can I. Zzzzzzzzzzzz.... They sure put a few dents in the glass behind the net though I'll give them that.

oh wow Lyksell finally gets his 1st NHL goal hoo...ray.

edit: OMG I was just about to post "watch them give it right back..."  Unreal...

In what promises to be an epic goaltending battle tonight it'll be Sam (or Same?) Ersson vs Jet Greaves. 

Excellent comprehensive assessment imho - so do you see Tortorella losing his effectiveness by year 4? Coincidentally that's when his contract expires AFAIK. If he gets "Flyers fired" upstairs (good one @flyercanuck!) I won't mind but I do wonder if the Tortorella trajectory from years past still applies.

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Who would you want in the crease next year with Ersson then?

I've been singing Ersson's praises all year but I have to admit he's looking less and less like a starting NHL goalie. I'm not anywhere close to giving up hope - he is a rookie after all, even if he is a bit older than your average rookie. I love his movement, his focus and calm demeanor in net. But ... well you already know, in fact I think you're the one who hipped me to his struggles last year in the Calder Cup.

fkn Hart (no pun intended). So yeah, the Flyers may be basically starting all over with goaltending...building from the net out as they say.