fanaticV3.0

Sure, he's got consistency issues - many 22yos do as FC notes.

 

His two goals against Buffalo ended a season-high seven game pointless streak.

 

Going into the Olympics he had two goals (0 As) in 15 games.

 

From Nov 25 to Dec 28 he had six assists (0 Gs) in 16 games.

 

Which isn't all that unusual. Take Evander Kane, for example - Oct 24 to Nov 29, 2 goals, four assists in 16 games. Came out of the Olympics with three assists in eight games.

 

Nazem Kadri has six points in his last 14 games. Dec 16 to Jan 14 - 1g 3a in 14 games.

 

What's the commonality with Kane, Kadri and Schenn? In the 2009 draft, Kane was 4, Schenn 5 and Kadri was 7. They were the forwards taken immediately before and after Schenn.

 

Even Matt Duchene had stretches (Nov 10 - Dec 10 11 games, 1 goal, 2 assist; Dec 21 - Jan 21 15 games, 1 G, 9 A (7 pointless games)) where he underperformed. Duchene was 3 in 2009.

 

The commonality with Kane, Kadri and Duchene? All of them play first line minutes (when Kane plays...).

 

You hope to see continued improvement with Schenn. He should be in line for a nice bridge deal to let both sides see what they have over the next 2-3 years.

I don't have any (major) problems with Schenn. He's inconsistent, but definitely shown signs of life. I will always welcome better play, but I'm not even close to giving up on him.

 

Yes, between his first and second year, we saw visible improvement in PPG and icetime. But this year compared to last? Nothing, nor is his defensive game what was advertized.

Then maybe the "advertisements" are wrong? I too remember the comparisons to Richards. So-much-so, that I remember (I think it was this board) I actually came out and asked what was his projection again? Because it was very clear whoever compared him to Richards was dead wrong. The longer he was here, it was obvious that was not a natural part of his game.

 I, for one..... I mentioned it being part of being a 22 year old NHLer. As Rad mentioned, his 6 game winners, tying him for the team lead, says he's doing something right. And making a positive difference in games.

Right. He's doing something right. But is he a bonafide impact player/difference maker? I wouldn't say so and I think that's completely fair. When rad said earlier that he's a little concerned about him, but not too concerned, that's exactly right imo. He has shown some progress, but has he broken out yet? Not really.

Per NHL information release.

Oh good, we'll start winning again then.

How about the six Game Winning Goals Schenn has this season?

 

Tied for the team lead with some guy named "Giroux."

Do I think he's a difference maker? I don't think it's a yes or no answer at this point. I think he is capable of being one and is headed in that direction (slowly, but it's happening). But I think whoever said he has consistency issues had a legit point. He shows signs of one, but doesn't do it frequently enough to where I'd call him one yet.

 Schenn scored 2 goals his last game. He was the games 1st star. That isn't making a difference? His problem (like a lot of young players) is consistency. Which I tried pointing out with many players that age. Some who turned out to be great, some good.

 

 If you don't recall people complaining about Richards or Girouxs development, maybe you were on vacation those years?

If scoring is all it takes to make a difference, then why aren't we talking about Rinaldo? He scored in the Buffalo game too. Caluso can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure that's really what he was talking about. I'm pretty sure he's talking about being an impact player and citing one example isn't exactly proof of that. A player can affect the outcome of any individual game, but that doesn't mean he's a "difference maker".

Wait................Goalie comes to Philly, and it saves his career???   Wow!!  That's some newsworthy shittt right there

I think we should all be concerned. The world is clearly ending and ending soon.

Not terribly surprising given this is the first season he has played more than 54 games. His points per game pace is no better than it was last season and he had not earned more icetime by improving.

 

For a guy depicted as a sure thing first line talent in the draft, I expect more from him in development at age 22 going on 23 than a 41 to 45 point season. Especially since he gets Powerplay time and no PK time. Generally, forwards are having their best years around age 22 to 28.

His ppg game went up significantly his second year here from .33 to .55 and is virtually the same this year (.53). That alone is progress. If you said he is not progressing as fast as expected/hoped, we're not having this conversation. But when you say he shows no signs of progression at all, that's simply wrong.

LOL glad someone picked up on why I deliberately chose taco bell

I can't comprehend why people over a certain age eat it. HS and college aged kids I get. No money or standards.

I always thought Taco Bell's meat looked like the inside of a baby's diaper. No fast foot is good for you, but they are notoriously the bottom of the barrel. I can't grasp why they are still in business.

I vaguely remember people throwing around a similar stat when Carcillo was here too.

I wouldn't want him back even if he agreed to play for free.

I don't give him a taco bell coupon. They replaced Downie with an AHLer who can't skate. And there is surprise there is a drop off for the other line mates? Let Downie go over the summer and get a winger who can play and isn't an idiot.

And that's really telling, because Taco Bell is easily the worst fast food joint around. I don't even want to know what their "meat" is made of.

.

 

 Ooooookay.

 

 I'll let you get back to your name calling and comics.

I didn't call you any names. Learn to read. Comics might actually help with that.

 If you call a guy with his God-given talent who's been invisible half the season while being paid over $9 million nothing but professional, ok. I personally don't think he earned his way to the 4th line by giving his all.

 

 IN VLCs defence, he shouldn't even be on a team with too many centers to begin with.

I didn't say he has played well all year, I said he's handled playing out of position and being demoted (the latter of which he deserved) like an adult, which is more than I can say about you. You cry about him every day that you post on this site. There isn't a day that goes by that you make a comment about him. He's played poorly sure - no sane person would deny that - but any attempt to paint him as pouty is nothing more than your bias. You cannot rationally discuss him (or many older players for that matter). You don't treat players the same. You see an old guy struggling and you want him on the 4th line. But a kid with some issues? No, don't dare treat him the same. It could ruin the future of this team! Never mind the fact that they're getting ready for the playoffs, VLC is noticeably better at center than wing, and Schenn isn't half bad on the wing, we could ruin the 2025 team by moving Schenn to another position or line for a tenth of the season (because we all know the line changes don't last any longer than that anyway).

@jammer2

Just for the record, I'm not really trying to be negative about him. I appreciate he is only 22 and it often comes with the territory, but he IS inconsistent. Not extremely so for 22 but more than you probably want as your second line center going into the playoffs.

I like him on faceoffs, but with his game tonight I wonder about him at wing vs. Center.

All that said, at this point of the year "learning" and "development" don't hold the same weight for me. VLC might be a better option at second line center at this point in the season.

He (Schenn) doesn't play like a center imo. He reminds me of a center about as much as Jeff Carter did. Ok, maybe not quite that much, but I see nothing in his game that warrants him having to play that position over other guys who are clearly better at the more well-rounded/responsible position.

I have only watched around 6 Flyer games this year, but they were spread out along the season.

 

Things I noticed. B Schenn does not seem to show any improvement or progression. Even in doing the little simple things. I could be wrong given I only watched 6 games, but he seems like meh to me.

 

Guy I noticed positively who I never heard of before. Matt Read. I was watching a game this season and had to ask everyone in chat who he was. The guy has some nice skating and shifty moves. The kind of moves that reminded me of Dan Boyle 3 years ago.

He has a career high in goals, assists, and points this year.

@caluso

 

 I disagree. Schenn, and not Vinnie, is part of the future of the team. We aren't winning the cup this year. Developing Schenn is way more important than helping some guy (who was bought out by his last team for not earning his keep)  be less pouty. 

He's never once complained about playing out of position or being put on the 4th line. He's been nothing but professional here, even when he's struggled.

I meant generically.

For the play I'm question, I think he missed the shoulder, but I know I'm likely in a minority of one.

If you tee up a guy and he moves, who has what blame? These plays are so fast in real time.

The guy doing the teeing up.

You're in the minority on this because you are wrong.

Bre:

 

I hope that Mason is a little like Craig Anderson.  He took some time to blossom, and if he isn't elite he is certainly damn good.  For the team, my concern is more generic. Is this really the beginning of a new era in which we are a year or two from elite status challenging for Cup? Or is this another head fake like 2010 where we think it's a new era and an in reality we just wallow in mediocrity?  I am hopeful but skeptical.

 

Peace,

 

Howie

I see no reason to be at this point. With that team there was signs that there were problems even during that Cup run. That season was one of the most bizarre things I've ever witnessed. It was an example of both what happens when you work hard and flying by the seat of your pants.

I agree that even if Mason isn't elite, I don't care as long as he's good.

4Y/$16M

I pray to the gods he turned that down because it was from the Isles, because if he gets much more than that from the Flyers Imma gonna be pissed.

Yep. You start at the same deal the Isles gave him - maybe less - and see where it goes.

 

Homer, of course, starts with his "final" offer and then goes up from there.

What exactly did the Isles offer him? I don't remember all of the terms other than it being in the neighborhood of $4mil. I like him, but I also think he's a 2nd pairing guy and am not willing to pay more than a certain amount for that. He's a good B-level player imo, but he doesn't get more than that $4 range unless he starts putting up better numbers. Good player (so far), but not worthy of insane money.

The image is from http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/02/heres-a-bunch-of-other-minus-players/related/

 

 

Edler, Yandle and Spezza are surprising to me to be on the list.  

I forgot that he even existed. Talk about a guy who has sort of fallen off the map. He's not even that old either.

Some of the numbers being thrown around on this thread are obscene.  I'm with whoever said $4.5 tops (I think it was rad). And by tops I mean I'm trying my damnedest not to pay that much. I like the guy, but he's not worth that kind of money. When you get in the $4-6 mil range, I want a defenseman who straightens things out back and there and he's not the impact player they need. 

ha - ya i guess i should've been clearer. when you said "throw him a bone" i took that to mean "move him back to a scoring line" so we don't hurt poor Vinny's feelings or something. When rad said they were throwing him a bone by giving him top PP minutes and being the first 6th man I agreed because it's true. The first notion I reject for the reasons I said. And I was surprised to see him with Giroux on the PP. That 2nd unit - I don't know the numbers but maybe Berube wanted to shake that up a bit too.

 

Anyway, this 4th line experiment - I wonder how committed Berube is to it. In the Boston game I think Vinny was back with Simmonds and Schenn for long stretches after the 1st. Let's see tonight...

Nope. I'm absolutely fine with him on the fourth, but just as as long as he gest some real linemates once and a while. I think what has been happening so far is fine and it's actually yileded results.

@fanaticV3.0

 

um...what Rad said.

 

 

 

 

well I'm not so sure of that. He does have a "4th line goal" in 2 games, 100% more than he's had in the past ... god I can't even remember the last goal Vinny scored.

 

so - will his demotion "break him out of a scoring drought" as you put it? Not if you mean "put him on track for x-number of goals." But at this point Berube is looking for anything to spark his 14-year pro into playing like one. Apparently he struck the right chord. Small sample? Yes indeed. But I'll take 1 goal in 2 games over Zero goals in ... ? however many it was

 

At the very least his presence on the 4th line forces teams to defend them differently than a typical 4th line. Is it a long-term solution? I guess that's up to Vinny more or less. He's got Paul Holmgren and his agent (and himself) for joining a team with a glut of young centers. Now it's up to him to make the most of it and deliver some production for his $54,878 dollars a night.

... is a confirmation of exactly what I said, which you "rejected on principle". I said I'm fine with him on the 4th, but give him something to work with once and a while, which they have and it has yielded results.

Why the the hell are you only acknowledging his "4th line goal"? He's scored 3 in his last 2, 2 of which came when he wasn't on the 4th line, but this is the one that stands out to you? Say what?

well I can't see that it's punishing the team in any way. On the contrary I think Vin on the 4th line makes the Flyers stronger, more dangerous by icing a 4th line that can do more than defend and energize the bench.

 

as far as "Give him a bone once in a while." I reject that on principle. Are there exceptions? Certainly. A guy coming back from injury, a scorer struggling with his confidence...etc. But in general don't you think players must earn their minutes? What has VLC done to earn playing time? Let's face it not much till he got shoved down to the 4th line.

Vinny has scored 3 goals in his last two games. Only one of those goals came as a result of playing with his 4th line linemates (it was an assist from Hall). If you want a 4th line that can "do more than defend and energize the bench", you're going to have to do better than a goal scorer who's trying to find his game and two muckers.  Ain't nobody breaking out of a scoring drought playing with Hall and Rinaldo.