JR Ewing

Yep, when you are around message board long enough, you inevitably see stuff recycled. For example, I've posted in about 10 identical threads about the top 5 goalies like we have going now. I fully expect a top 5 defensemen thread before the end of the summer....lol.

Being a veteran poster, I quite often use the stragety of anticipating an opposing view, acknowledging it, discuss it and ultimately undermine the opposition before the even get a chance to counter....lol. I learned quickly that people will inevitably take the opposite side to your theory, no matter how much sense it makes.....so the self made counter comes in handy...ha ha.

It's not only that, but I've seen this precise set of posts from a guy who went around to a bunch of forums at the same time, all so he could bait people with an argument over GWG, and he could "expose" their "lack of logic", when all they were doing was explaining the league's logic to him. He wasn't interested in discussion or debate. He was interested in looking down on people.

He was, in short, an ass.

I don't know if this is the same guy, but if he is..............

JR

How can the names Smythe, Adams, Norris, and Patrick identify a location to a new fan? Essentially then they have no meaning. If you first look at the NHL is divided between the East and the West. The Atlantic ocean lines the East from North to South, the metropolitan division is the center of that north / south region, just as a city is the center of the suburbs and surrounding countryside. Anyway that is just how I can relate to the names.

If they kept the Atlantic division the same for the most part what would they call the combined divisions of the northeast and southeast?

I do prefer the name "Metro" as opposed to "Metropolitan" chances are most on TV and radio will shorten the name also.

Not to be overly sarcastic, but I would guess the location of the city would be the dead giveaway... We don't really need a divsion name like "Pacific" to tell us where Los Angeles plays.

JR

Oh, this is really a shame. I hoped they would take their chance to come back with names that would be a throwback to the game's greatest players and/or builders, and wasn't so far removed from newer fans they've picked up: Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, etc. The NHL has an amazing history which the league run towards, not away from.

JR

I wouldn't want to give a goalie credit or blame for the system employed his team. People are constantly knocking Brodeur for the Devils trapping (like so many other teams, btw). My issue with Brodeur is that the save percentage was just never there. Great goalie, didn't make my top 5 (was 6th).

On the other side of the coin, people want to sometimes give a little bit too much credit for goalies that played under a looser defensive system. With Grant Fuhr, the point is sometimes stretched to the absurd, and people talk about the Oilers as if they didn't give a rat's ass about defense when I can assure you they did. For all of the talk of the hard job Fuhr had, it was guys like Hextall, Burke, Bannerman, Hrudey, etc, who saw a lot more rubber each game.

a] Yeah, yeah... Paul Coffey... And the other 5 guys? Most years it was guys who were very good defensively: Kevin Lowe, Charlie Huddy, Lee Fogolin. Solid defensively: Jeff Beukeboom, Craig Muni, Steve Smith, Randy Gregg.

b] Forwards? They had two guys who were among the top vote getters for the Selke year-in and year-out: Craig MacTavish and Esa Tikkanen.

c] There is tremendous defensive benefit to always being at the other end of the ice, pushing play at the opposition. Less time in your zone, less chances at you net.

This isn't to say that the Oilers played a stifling defense. We're talking about the 80s; nobody really did that. You could see more breakaways in one game than you see in a month of games these days. But, over time, talk of how the Oilers played has taken on a life of its own.

TLDR for Fuhr: Like Brodeur, the save percentage just wasn't there.

JR

Part of the delay with Grabovski is likely due to the surprise of being bought out and that he was bought out on his wedding day. Add a nice honeymoon to that and I can easily see him not signing right away.

I would think the Capitals, Calgary, Florida and Tampa all want him. His best choice imo is either with the Capitals or Tampa.

Why: Yeah, I would bet the honeymoon is a major factor in his not being signed yet.

Where: a team that will give him the money he wants AND will not put make him a 3rd line centre. He has no interest in doing that again, clearly.

JR

Yup.

Honestly, it isn't a stat I've ever really paid attention to.

Not only that, but I've seen this exact topic played out in exactly this fashion.

It started out with a hypothetical description of goals scored and who was awarded the GWG, and then asked forum members to say why/how it worked. Then, after, the person came and told them why GWG is so wrong, blah blah blah, etc etc etc.

Seen this a few times on a few forums over the last decade.

JR

Uh oh...

I've been down this road enough times over the last 9-10 years on message boards. I know where this leads.

JR

You're right about Grabovski taking the tough minutes, that's for sure. When I said statistically I was referring to his offensive numbers in comparison to what they had been in the past. I thought Grabo did a decent job in the role he was given, but it's obvious it didn't completely agree to him (based on the loud noises in his "exit" interview).

Haha!

Yeah, that's putting it mildly. The man was seriously ticked off.

JR

Could be.

Still I find it hard to believe someone won't take a chance on him. He may need to lower his salary expectations given his poor season statistically.

Like I was saying in the Leafs forum, I fully expect whatever team grabs (pun intended) him to be very happy with that choice. I just hope it's a team Toronto doesn't have to face too often, judging by the way he would often up his game against Montreal...

I think he'll likely have to, but disagree about his year statistically speaking. His boxcar numbers were underwhelming, but a look under the hood shows that he had an extremely tough job to do with low quality teammates, and did it very well. It was because Grabovski was able to do so that Kadri was able to get all of the gravy zone starts with good linemates.

Unless I've missed something: who's going to play those minutes now?

JR

Last I heard, he had 1 single offer....from the KHL.

One offer which has been made public, at any rate.

JR

I always watched the Olympic tournament before NHL players were involved, but it's gotten so much better that it's not even close.

JR

@JR Ewing I'm expecting a 40 goal year from him, as long as he stays injury free. Having seen a whole of Taylor and Tyler (Plymouth is a direct division rival of the Spits), I was sure Edmonton made the right call here. The stories from the Stanley Cup playoffs just cemented those thoughts. He's gonna have a fantastic career. He's one of the top 5% in pure skating in the NHL, just wonderful top speed and balance. In junior he stood out even more, he would plant and BAM, he was gone....breathtaking to watch.

I'd love that. HIs skating really helps him, and it creates utter panic from opposing defensemen, since there's not a ton of them who can fend off that kind of speed.

What struck me was the collective "Wow!" from the Toronto crowd after the first goal. Serious wheels. There's plenty of guys that fast without the puck, not a whole lot of them can do it with the puck and get away a shot like that.

JR

Most interesting is that Brown negotiated the contract himself: no player agent. According to articles I've found around on the internets, the average commission is 4%, so he saved himself a little under $2M. Not so bad.

Oh, and the term is almost assuredly too long for the Kings, but GMs will always do this: 8 years is probably longer than you'll have the job, so the contract will most likely be the next guy's problem.

JR

LOVE the book the Game. Reread it at least once a year, one of the two or three best Hockey books ever.

I get your argument about Dryden playing not to lose the game, but there are good team goalies and bad team goalies. Dryden was the greatest of the great when it came to playing not to lose for a great team. He understood his role and defined it.

Conversely Dryden's argument about bad team goalies, love it. Players who need to play out of their mind to steal games for their team, but give up the odd softies as well. I have a very good friend who is a Dallas Star fan and I use this argument on Kari Lehtonen, that he is the definition of a bad teams goalie, he swears that Lehtonen deserves elite status because of the team that he plays for and the fact that he keeps his team in a lot of games that they are outplayed. I point out Lehtonen has a wretched record in games that matter, when they absolutely need a victory to make the playoffs he falls apart. We go round and round and my premise is based on Dryden's book.

Great book, though it's been over 20 years since I've read it... Guess it's time to do that again.

JR

From the standpoint of seeing the absolute best hockey, I badly want NHL players at the Olympics. I'm not bothered by the pro/amateur thing, as the Games largely lost that amateur thing a very long time ago. Would that it were true, but it's not.

JR

This really just confirms what I've seen in Grabo in the games I watched. I think the guy is far from a floater, he is actually pretty effective defensively and is a competitor. He just really didn't get along with Carlyle. Before the Wings signed Alfredsson and Weiss I had hopes that they were going to go after Grabo because he plays exactly the type of game the Wings like. I hope that he finds a job with an NHL squad and sticks around after, because he would be a major loss to the league if he left for the KHL.

After the Leafs paid Grabovski to leave, I thought the Wings would be right after him, especially with losing Filppula. Certainly, the Wings have never had a bias against this type of player. Must have wanted more than they could pay.

JR

Leave it to a pens fan to spell "What" as "Wat!"... joking...

Mario was an amazing player to watch and he was so strong on his skates that he was nearly impossible to take off the puck. He was so fast and so strong that Teams literally could not stop him.

I made sure to get tickets to Oilers games whenever the Pens came to town. I was already spoiled by seeing a lot of high end talent close up, but Mario blew me away every time. What I could never get over was how soft his hands were. It was really something: you couldn't hear the puck hit his stick, no matter how hard the pass.

That wasn't picked up on TV or by any mircrophones, and you had to be among the lucky who personally attended games in which he played to really catch something like that. Astonishing hockey player.

JR

@JR Ewing So, I've been meaning to ask you about Taylor Hall? He was with my hometown Spitfires before we "leant" him to the NHL..lol. What do you think of Taylor as a player? I hope his zest for the game does not lead to injuries every season, but he does play with reckless disregard for his own body. In Windsor, we would complain when he tries to do "to much" ie go through the whole opposing team on a pk rather than make the safe play and dump it in. There was a lot of plays where he was trying to do the hot dog thing, and that was not necessarily what was best for the team. Don't get me wrong, love the kid, one of my favourite Spits ever (and that is 35+ years of OHL watching). His unbridled enthusiam was a bright spot in 09 and 10...to say the least.

Taylor Hall?

-Three-zone hockey player who, from day one, had the puck moving north. CorsiRel has only gotten better every year: +10 (21st), +15 (12th), +20(6th) from 2011 thru this past year.

-Has been playing tough competition since about game 10 of his career and was able to keep his head above water immediately.

-This past season he really pulled in on the more reckless side of his behaviour, spent less time spinning around on his butt and belly after trying to do too much.

-Backs off defenders and creates huge amounts of room for his linemates, and he really used it this year, when he made a purposeful point at trying to fill out his passing game. Went from 34 assists per 82 GP up to 62. Has really made strides from being that kid who tried to do too much on his own.

-Lost in the shuffle of him finishing 9th in NHL scoring was that he finished 2nd in the West. 22 years old, and was the second best scorer in his league.

-Underused. Was neck and neck with Toews for Pts/60: 3.15 (6th NHL, 2nd West), and with tougher minutes than many around him.

-If he was playing for the Leafs, Ranger, Bruins, etc, we'd be hearing about him ALL THE TIME. Wonderful young player.

JR

I remember this one. Short of kicking Mario in the nuts, Fortier tried everything he could do to stop him.

JR

I'd like it to be addressed, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it. We've all been saying this for at least ten years.

JR

@JR Ewing

BTW I think the Eakins signing was a great move. Perfect guy to bring in with all that young talent. I was actually hoping Philly would fire Lavilette and bring him in.

I think that Eakins seems like the right guy to bring in, and now we have to wait for the returns. What we know about him:

-The Marlies experienced big improvements in W/L, goal differential, and shot differential.

-The Marlies got WAY better at even strength. The Oilers only line with real success in this regard is whichever one Taylor Hall is playing one.

-Eakins developed a large number of young players during his time as Marlies coach.

-Quite a large number of Leafs fans with brains are upset that he's gone. I like that, too.

I believe in playing multiple systems. I don’t follow the NFL, but I do know – I’ve read up on the NFL – where these football players get these huge stacks of playbooks and they have to know all these plays. And you have hockey teams that run one forecheck, one neutral zone forecheck, and they defend one way. That’s crazy to me. The one thing that we’ve been working on, the teams I’ve been coaching, is we have multiple systems, and we’ll switch in and out of them out of games, from game to game, and it’s important now. I tell you, you’re so heavily scouted and the pre-scouting that goes on against your team all the time, it’s tough to get around. If you can get your players prepared with multiple ways to play, and they’re comfortable with it, you can catch teams off-guard.

I don't know what it is, but I get the warm and fuzzies when I read an NHL coach who has this kind of approach. No offense against RFK, but I think he got the job based, more than a little bit, on his abilities as a motivational speaker and not so much on his abilities to run the Xs-and-Os of a hockey club.

JR

@JR Ewing I just like how they have added veteran toughness and skill without the long term commitment. Clarkson would have been a big mistake for them, not what is needed right now.

I think the Leafs are going to be regretting that deal a few years in, when they see so much money going towards a player who won't really score that much. Not saying Clarkson's a bad player, but he's going to be making more than Taylor Hall in a couple of years, and I know who I (and almost anybody else) would rather have for that kind of dough.

They may tweak the positions you mentioned, and should. I still have trouble believing Grabo is out there for the taking. If they could secure his services and move everyone down a notch and insert him at #2 or 3 center, the off season will have been a huge success in my eyes. I love the way Grabo plays the defensive side of the center positon, and if they paired him with legit wingers, I believe 25-30 goals is realistic. He would be a pretty low cap hit , maybe a one year 2 mill deal or something like that...I'd much rather have Grabo than Dustin Penner, who just signed an identical contract. Lot's of NHL GM's are missing the boat here.

I have to admit that I don't really get it either. He was compeltely mismanaged last year in Toronto, had a good year, and his name was still dragged in the mud. Quality hockey player who routinely has the puck moving the right way and under difficult circumstances. My guess is that if were willing to sign a 1-year, $2MM deal, he'd already be signed. He's worth more than that, I think, but GMs don't seem to see it that way.

Probably a combination of his lack of size being held against him (which I don't get; he's good despite not being big) and the idea of being bad in the locker room (which I can't personally talk about at all)

JR

@JR Ewing Nice to have an Oilers fan in here that knows what's up. Maybe you can settle a difference of opinion I've had in here. Another poster is basically claiming that the Oilers, by not going gung ho into the free agent market with big additions, are teaching the kids that losing is accpetable. I think the opposite, they are sitting back, trying to figure out just when their window opens and will then plan accordingly.

Jeez, I thought the Oilers were pretty actively on free agent day, actually. They identified weaknesses (top 4 defense, top tier 3rd line tough minutes centre, and backup goaltender) and aggressively went after them. They've since added a good top 6 forward and more depth to their defense than the club has seen since Opening Day 2007. Big game hunting and overpaying for Clarkson (which they attempted to do) doesn't really help them very much anyway. Seems like the furthest thing from accepting losing.

I think by letting the kids mature and then adding what they need, they are being smart. They have provided veteran leadership, last year by adding Belanger, Hordinchuck and Ryan Smyth. Then, to add to those vets, they brought in Perron and Ferreance....both fine quality additons. They are supporting the kids but not commiting to the long term deals that break your back.

I'll admit that I wanted nothing to do with Hordichuk (can't take or make a pass), but am happy with the additions you mention for this year. The issue with the team is depth, and they've gone some ways to address it. I would DEFINITELY be happier if they improved:

3LW

4C

4RW

I would be a much happier man.

-I don't want Ryan Jones anywhere near tough minutes or tough zone starts

-Getting an actual NHL centreman to play 4th line minutes would be good, as I'm not convinced Lander is that guy.

-I want nothing to do with Mike Brown.

I think a big part of thier plan is revealed next year, that's if Dubnyk is indeed the goalie of the future. He showed improvement last year with more playing time, he must take his game to the next level now, evolve if you will.

I was pretty happy when the trade for Cory Schneider didn't pan out. Dubnyk is, at worst, a league average goalie, and not really their biggest fish to fry.

JR

@JR Ewing

Lets face it, most gms are going to put their man in. They may give the present coach a year, maybe two. But they're really just waiting to fire him.

Yeah, it's just about always the case, and for good reason. I wasn't totally stunned (or unhappy) when Krueger was let go, for the very reason you mention. Still, it stood in contrast to what MacTavish had publicly just a couple of weeks earlier:

"I think it’s fair to say that there’s a very remote chance that where we are right now has anything to do with coaching... We’ve gone through four coaches in the last number of years, so for me to say it’s Ralph Krueger’s fault right now would be extremely shortsighted on my part. I give Ralph a lot of credit for the way he’s maintained a positive atmosphere."

I'm guessing that after MacTavish interviewed Eakins for the associate position, he came away very impressed by him and decided to change course, because what happened is pretty far from how the week started out. Just days before he was let go, Krueger was involved in finding his associate.

JR

Agreed, although I rate players by their peak and Prime quite a bit more heavily than I do their career.

For Example, Mike Gartner was a very good player for a log time. Like 20 years. However, in No year that he played was he among the top 10 players in the NHL. Alex Ovechkin could retire tomorrow and I would consider him a better player easily with his 8 years vs Gartner's 20.

However if you were exceptional for a long time, like Joe Sakic for example. I consider him above both, and do not think twice about it

You've known me long enough to figure I'm not opposed to this at all. The first ten years are what makes a player's real HOF case. The rest of his caeer are just padding the numbers.

JR