brelic

10 minutes ago, hf101 said:

So what was Perreault's injury?  Not a head shot. 

Had the wind knocked out of him?  ... any thing else?

He has a concussion. 

25 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

If all else fails in dumping our overpriced stiffs, maybe LA does a deal with us and we give up JVR or Jake for Kovlachuk. Even if it ends up being an Umberger move, we knock off a number of years from paying a big contract. Kovlachuck has several years less  in his contract.  Kovlachuck might be a douche and you might hate him, but its safe to say Jake and JVR are not fan favorites.  but at least  Kovlachuk is a finisher. Would you rather see the goofy bastards JVR and Jake for 5 more years or Kovlachuk for 2 years. 

Kovalchuk WAS a finisher.

He's got 3 goals in 17 games. Jake has 6 in 33. Pretty much a wash.

Kovy is 36. Jake is 30.

Jake is a 9-year Flyer. Kovy is a paycheck chaser, recently waived by one of the worst teams in the NHL.

I can get behind the argument to move Jake at some point (expansion, future-looking trade) but this is not that point.

I don't like Kovalchuk the player or the person. So I want no part of him in the dressing room. 

43 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

So i have to ask (and i know this will stir up the boards this morning) would you trade a kid and a big contract for Taylor Hall??

 

Just for example...

 

JVR

Travis Sanheim

2020 1st

 

for 

 

Taylor Hall

 

????

 

Or just stay put and ride this thing out....or target another player??

 

Asking for a friend.

I don't know, it's hard to say. 

There's so much uncertainty around Patrick and Lindblom. 

Patrick might play this year, but it's looking less and less likely as time goes on. 

Lindblom, I hope he beats this. If he does and comes back to hockey, I'd guess right now that it's not before the 2021-2022 season. 

So does it make sense to trade solid assets and give Hall a 7 year contract? He will be 29 early next season, so he'd be on the books at probably $9.5M or so until he's 36.  Doesn't feel like the smart move to me, but what do I know?

Maybe Hoffman, if you can get him cheaper and for 5 years or less.

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

And our so called leaders G and Vorachoke didn't do a damn thing. Neither of them play with enough fire and step up when the chips are down .Since Lindblom went down and they dedicated the season to him, what have they done? They went pointless . Thank God they didnt promise a sick kid they would score a goal for him. We used to have guys that stepped up when the going got tough, Poulin, Sutter, Clarke, Tocchet ,Pronger ,etc. Now we have guys that keep saying we gotta find ways to win, etc. Ive been heqring it for years.

Sure, but 6 of the 12 forwards are rookies. And not very good ones. Farabee and Frost *will* be good, but they've hit a bit of a rookie wall and make a lot of mistakes. Farabee made a poor decision last night, and that took the wind out of the Flyers' sails, who had just scored and had some momentum. 

I'd challenge any NHL team to take out 6 regulars - including their top scorer and top point getter - and dress 6 rookies (4 of them no better than career 4th liners) instead, and somehow not miss a beat. 

We're as close to 6th in the Metro as 4th (and the 6th place Rags are 3 pts behind with a game in hand). 

The season isn't over by any stretch... but they need some healthy NHL bodies back soon. Sure, our stars need to step up, but also, they need competent players for the other 40 minute of the game.

The Flyers are in real trouble here. They just don't have enough NHL talent. 

Take out TK, Lindblom, Laughton, Raffl, and Pitlick.

Replace them with Twarynski, Vorobyev, NAK, Kase, and Stewart. 

Results are not going to be positive.

Wow. Terrible news. 
 

Love ya Oskar. You got this. 

13 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Interesting. He's not exactly torn it up with the Phantoms, but they must be liking what they see in his overall game, and probably his versatility,  to get the call up. If your NAK, on the other hand, you have to be asking yourself some important questions. 

Yes, he's apparently a very tenacious, hard-working player. I'd prefer him over Stewart any day, and that's without even seeing him play!

NAK, meanwhile, was a healthy scratch on a severely depleted Phantoms team, so there's that. I think it's probably safe to say he will never be a regular NHL player. 

David Kase got called up and is available for the game tonight, though not sure he will get in.

Per official Flyers channels. 

Also, Myers left practice with back spasms again. He's out for Wednesday, and the plan is not to call anyone up for the 3-game road trip, at least for now. 

Stewart and Hagg will be in. 

They will have no extra healthy players on the trip. 

That was a fun game. Except for the potential injury to TK. 

Laughton was a true leader tonight. Chirping, hitting, being a pest, starts the play on the Provy goal, and then buries one himself to take the lead back. 

And then tells off the entire Sens bench? Hell yeah. 

I hate that punk Tkachuk. Borowiecki is a punk too. 

Fun, emotional hockey! I'll take 10 games like that over just about any other game this season. 

This is probably a good learning game for the kids. Develop some passion. It was a playoff-lite kinda game. 

30 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

All true.  

It's just not the highway robbery that most Caps' fans and many Flyers' fans thought the Caps pulled off.    Not sure Gudas has anything to do with their running away with the division, but in the few Caps games I've seen, I don't think he was playing badly despite being dropped to the third pair.

Yeah, I just meant that even without Niskanen, they're running away with the division. 

The two teams were coming at the trade with different needs.

19 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Hands down.  It really was at the time.

And considering Gudas has already sunk to the third pairing on the Caps, it's not even close.  

 

I'm by no means an expert on Corsi/Fenwick/etc., but from the limited understanding I have of them, Gudas' numbers are horrible.

It's probably a win-win. Caps get cap relief this year by taking Gudas AND getting the Flyers to retain, and Gudas comes off the books at the end of the year... and the Caps are still running away with the division.

7 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

What has happened to Oskar?? Has he hit a wall??

 

He was on a tear and then zero points in the last 5 on 2 over the last 8.

 

I'm sure Jake on his opposite wing isn't helping at all....Jake in place of TK is a huge downgrade.

Good question. Our lines in general just aren't generating any scoring. 

Jake is my least favourite player to watch. 

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

Fighting has always been in the rules and allowed. So to argue that its the only major sport to allow it is insignificant.  Fans accepted it, embraced it and it became an accepted norm. 

 

I find it particularly interesting when we all comment on what players are thinking and how they view the issue. Seriously, how does a fan know what players are thinking? Seems to me, that whenever this issue arises, the players always support the rule

 

So like I said, the NHL can neuter the league all they want, I'll be too busy watching anything else to notice

Yes, it did become an accepted norm. And it's now becoming an unaccepted norm. 

They've gone from over a fight per game to one fight every five games. 

https://www.tsn.ca/fighting-continues-to-fade-from-nhl-1.1216252

The same trend is happening in the lower leagues in almost identical proportions. 

So, whether or not you go on and do other things, fighting is going away.

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

@brelic

 

I was never a fan of the staged fights after a face-off.

 

There was an intensity that you've mentioned that doesn't seem to be in the game anymore until the playoffs.

Backinaday there were home & homes where two teams played back to backs in each team's arena. /game 2 of that scheduling technique used to have a fair amount of chippiness due to proximity.

There  was a time when I was okay with fights if they arose organically.  Guys getting their sticks and elbows up in the corners would lead to someone "having enough".  There was less padding, worse helmets, no visors...people would get opened up more easily and playing recklessly would and should have consequences.

Now guys want to fight after clean hits .

There is a "we're 'allowed' to do this so we should do this" vibe to most fights today that I can't get with. 

It is a contact sport, guys skating fast in an enclosed area with sticks, it has violence built into to it. The fighting used to be a way to reset building tension and get back to playing hockey, now it's a distraction from everything. 

 

 

Football is a contact sport and doesn't tolerate fighting the way hockey does. It just has a long history with hockey and is a generational change before it's completely gone. 

But, yeah, I really do miss the intensity and chippiness that made me care about my team and truly hate the other team. Now, it's just a bunch of dudes skating around and I like the orange ones lol. 

As I said in another post, though, it could really be a function of having sooooo little Flyers playoff action in the past 7-8 years. I enjoyed watching the Lightning/Jackets playoff series last year and the atmosphere on the ice and in the stands is what we just don't get as Flyers fans when they're golfing in early April.

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

Interesting...seems to me fighting is still prevalent at the lower levels. So I dont buy this argument. 

 

The NHL can remove the rough stuff and fighting, then they can rename the league MLS on skates

 

I wish them luck in their endeavor to be an irrelevant sport

I really think they will. It's the only major sport that allows fighting. It's at odds with current social norms, and with the announcement that the PA is getting involved in monitoring and rooting out player abuse by coaches, it's the way things are going. 

There's barely any hitting in today's NHL, and very few organic fights. It's quickly becoming an anachronism. 

1 minute ago, CoachX said:

It doesnt have to be "all or nothing". You can still police the game of head shots, cheap shots and all those penalties that would impede movement. But allow open hits that are legal, remove the instigator amd make Evander Kane, Wayne Simmonds, Tom Wilson players more of a commodity. 

For sure. At least temporarily. But look at the young players coming up. They didn’t grow up on what we did. They grew up in a different time, different social context, different idols. I wouldn’t be surprised to see fighting eventually banned under heavy suspension. Which is fine, because it’s becoming nonsensical to see grown men fight playing a sport (at least one that isn’t a fighting sport).

But, yeah, the kids are learning a different game at a very young age. 

3 minutes ago, elmatus said:

We like to watch violence. It's emotional and visceral.

Exactly. There used to be storylines. Now there’s fancy stat lines. 
 

3 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

 

Your last statement certainly seems extreme to me.  

 

I absolutely HATED the game of hockey 10 years ago. 

The things teams like the Penguins and the Blackhawks would get away with to win those cups was disgusting to me and I absolutely hated it.  The idea of "hey, we're getting out played and we're down by a goal... let's hold their sticks or pretend to get hit in the face and get a double minor so we can get back in this thing!" is just fine as a tactic if you want to be an A-hole, but for the life of me, I can't figure out how the refs were falling for it.  My only guess is that the league had them so cued in to "interference" that they were predisposed to see a guy being unable to play the puck because his stick was being held as a "hook" in the other direction.

 

I miss the "give a crap" "find that extra gear" quality that Richards and Briere had going for them.  I don't miss throwing a bunch of money at Marty Biron or Jeff Hackett and thinking "What could go wrong?!"

 

But hey... Richards and Carter got laid a lot, so that had to end. Or something like that.  Honestly I forget. 

 

 Ultimately, out of those deals we will have gotten Coots, Frost, Farabee, Pitlick and 8 years of crap hockey 3/5 of which is a pretty good return.

 

The scoring went down in the early 90's essentially when the Devils won the cup with "The Trap" which was a load of horse crap because they essentially just got away with all kinds of interference, hooking and clutching and grabbing. So then everyone tried to do it.  Hockey decided to suck as a result. 

 

Around the same time, the league okay's enormous light weight goalie equipment.  Light weight I'm okay with and allowing the goalies to be more athletic is great.  But the size of the chest protector essentially taken away portions of the net.

 

They counterbalanced this is the carbon fiber sticks which allow for insanely hard and accurate shots, so for my money, it's a wash.

 

The clutch and grab (ahem) I mean "Trap" defenses have given way as well... however, what remains is what those teams like the redwings and devils purported to be doing back then and essentially playing positionally savvy defense that limits the magnificence of your star players to rise above the fray.

 

But as far as my middle aged eyes can see it now, the game seems to be on track from my POV.  The game is cleaner, more honest than it was then.  

 

We may see more of what you miss if the Flyers make it out of the first round ever again.  I think the playoffs are still that place where greatness can arise.

 

 

 

 

I 

Well said. Can’t say I really disagree with anything. 
 

Kick back, grab a beer, because this is gonna be a long one. We’re goin’ down one of uncle B’s rabbit holes. 

The biggest thing “missing” in my opinion is that there are no longer events that cause emotions to rise and elevate my own emotional investment in the team I love. 
 

Fights are gone, except for the odd token bout. Normal hitting is very gentlemanly. Game-changing hits are non-existent. Chirping and chippiness are gone because there’s nothing to chirp or be chippy about. 
 

It’s basically down to goals. 
 

I don’t want to go back to that because we now know how freaking damaging it can be to players. I’ll never forget Lindros curled in the fetal position courtesy of a Stevens hit, or Primeau getting a cheap shot elbow to the head that was the beginning of the end for him. It is completely at odds with how we see things today. 
 

At the same time, I hated the Penguins because of Malakhov.  I hated the Devils because of Stevens. I hated the Rangers because of Avery. And all of the smaller cheap shots those guys would take during the last of the true rivalries. 
 

And our players truly hated them too. So when we struck back with a cheap shot of our own, or delivered a clean bone-crunching hit that got every freaking Flyer fan on their feet, **** that was fun. Then they would fight back and ratchet up the intensity. Start a fight in a scrum. Both teams would chirp endlessly. Little shots after the whistle. Snow the goalie’s face on a whistle and get everyone’s back up. We would ratchet it up one more. I was on the edge of my seat in anticipation of what would happen next.
 

That’s what I don’t feel from hockey anymore. 

Those regular season games with true rivals were intense. Even as recently as 10 years ago, before all of these real significant changes to contact started happening. 
 

There was a reason to hate them. 
 

Now, do you truly hate the Devils? Rangers? Why? Because they sometimes score more goals than we do? 

There’s still some of that left with the Penguins and Bruins. But once Crosby, Malkin, and Marchand are gone, what’s left to hate?

2 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

This is actually a brilliant way of putting it.   Thank you for that.

Hey, every 4-5 years I say something worthy lol.

10 minutes ago, hf101 said:

I dunno.  I went to last night's game and I rather enjoyed the tight stick handling, and intense defensive skilled play.  I mentioned after the game how so many won't appreciate the incredible skill it takes to play this type of game.    It sure beats the stupid center ice fights that some called hockey.

 

 

That's fair. And millions of people feel that way, obviously, as the game keeps growing in fanbase and revenue.

But to me, it's like the difference between watching someone who is technically proficient on their instrument versus someone who is more visibly emotionally invested in their performance. Of course both can co-exist, and for the NHL, I think that's basically just the playoffs now. 

29 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

I agree that's some of it.

But there are far too many games for people to have to wait until the regular season is over to have anything interesting to watch.    Even in the playoffs, I wonder if it's actually the game itself that is exciting or just the tension/anxiety of who moves on.   I honestly think a lot of it is the latter.

 

Some of it is age for me, probably.  But most of it is that this is NOT the sport I fell in love with an cheered for for over 30 years.   I think it's soul has been crushed by expansion, rule changes, and a strange focus on the "casual fan." Screw the casual fan.  You have to have a core fan base that is emotionally invested.  Because that casual fan is going to move on to the next thing as soon as you're not winning.  But they've taken the life and soul out of the product, knifed it with brain-damaged skills competitions to decide who wins, and priced most fans out of the ability to ever go see a game--which is pre-requisite to growing and then keeping an actual fan base.

 

And I really wish the cheerleaders of this destruction of a game would stop yammering about "I just want to see skill."  Then go watch figure skating and STFU if all you want to see is people skating around with skill for absolutely no purpose and leave hockey to people who actually like the sport.

I mean, a bit part is that we no longer tolerate dangerous hits to the head, or just downright dangerous hits period. The league is not perfect, and definitely inconsistent, but the overall message is clear - it is no longer acceptable.

11 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

It's almost like you wrote down my exact feelings.    Very well said!

Goals are rare events in hockey - sometimes you only get a few per game. That's a lot of waiting (2.5 hours) for very little excitement, and it might not even be your team.

Hitting used to occur regularly. There was emotion in the game and chippiness. That's all pretty much gone now. I've seen exactly one Flyers game this year that felt like a playoff game. There's another one that felt close (the NJ shutout).

So yeah, I agree that hockey for the most part is boring to watch. Or maybe more accurately, it's just that we haven't been treated to enough playoff hockey to enjoy. That's where real hockey is played.

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

 

He had a goal against the flames too.

3 points in 3 games since joining the Coots line.

 

We've seen with Jake & JVR that they need a strong play making centerman to score.  I think we've seen clearly that despite the $7million price tag, Hayes isn't that guy.  He does a lot of things extremely well and is an asset to this team, but he's not going to make plays to get JVR or Jake going.  

 

Frost likely isn't experienced enough to play that role without a Giroux by his side.

Patrick is still out.

 

If either one of those two factors changes, then I think you could see lines shifting again before the end of the season in a way that gets multiple lines going at once.  

 

It would be nice right now if the Frosty Gineckneys and the Oskar VoraCootses (Jake CouturaBloms?) could both put it in the net the same night, but they were both buzzing pretty good last night.  They were both crushing the possession and play driving.

 

Actually all 4 lines did pretty damn well with that last night.  The 4th gave up the goal on a turnover and Hagg got a little dominated, but other than that, they played a strong game.  It would just be nice in any and all of these games if there was just one more goal coming from all this dominance.  

 

It would mean several more points and position places.

 

The metrics are so weird with this team.

They are 5th in the Metro (would be 2nd in the Atlantic) and hanging on to the last wildcard spot. 

Their PK is 3rd in the league and PP is 12th. 

They allow the 2nd fewest shots per game and allow the 8th fewest goals against per game. 

They put up the 7th most shots per game, yet are 17th in goals scored per game.

With all of that said, they are 26th in team shooting % and 20th in team save %.

There are only 4 guys >= .900 on ice save %. Myers, JVR, Ghost, and G.

Pittsburgh has 13, Canes have 3, and Isles have 17. Canes have slightly worse team goaltending than we do (.905 vs .906).

Yet we are 10th overall in the NHL. Still a work in progress but doing very well considering.