trevluk

about 5 players short of being a serious contender

You may be right but that also holds true for just about every other team in the league that isnt a contender!

Simmonds today and Rinaldo all season have been bright spots.

I'd add Vinny to that list as well.

I will never totally jump ship as a Flyers fan. I bleed orange and black, but my frustration has hit new heights. Furthermore, I have followed them for so long and have been so dedicated that when I get into frustration levels this high it is not healthy for me as it affects my day to day mood and that is not fair to my family. So I will still follow and love the Flyers from a distance for a little while but living in NorCal I think I will be spending a lot more time watching the Sharks this year. (Admittedly, watching the Sharks can be just as frustrating but I dont care as much so it doesnt affect me as much!)

I got my first real look at the Flyers tonight (hadnt seen any games yet, only read about the preseason and game 1 on this board so I hijacked the game tonight and got to watch about 30 minutes of it and I was embarrassed to be a Flyers fan in those 30 minutes. I know that is an incredibly small sample but I gotta say that from what I saw, this team is flat out terrible. Vinny aside I saw nothing from this team that makes me believe we will even make the playoffs this year. If you look at individual talent on this team there is no reason that should be the case so you gotta start to point the finger at coaching and preparation. Giroux looks like he has absolutely no businees being a captain and looks totally lost. (I cringed when they made him C last year and thouhgt it was a HUGE mistake and it appears that I was right. The kid has absolutely crumbled under the pressure of wearing the C and may not recover.) Our D is not capable of moving the puck and taking advantage of some of the skilled forwards that we have. Our goaltending seems to be actually decent and I cant fault them for these first 2 losses but they also obviously havent been able to steal a game. I fear we are in for a very long season, except for Lavy, who is in for a very a short season most likely. Sigh.

Edited by radoran, Today, 06:43 PM.

civility

cmon Rad, . If he brings legit conversation to the board I am more than happy to engage in real hockey talk but I dont think that is what he was looking for.

@trevluk I'll let the 11 cups that Detroit has do the rest of the talking for that one

It probably would be best if you did let inanimate objects speak for you. Detroit won 7 of their 11 Cups before the NHL expansion. Since the Flyers came in to the league the tally is Detroit 4, Flyers 2. Obviously I would prefer those numbers to be reversed but I hope werent expecting me to be impressed by your Cup count. If you were a Montreal fan you would have a leg stand on with their 9 Cups SINCE the expansion. 

Apparently the first game of the season means its time to panic...81 more games...calm down people.

So far your first 2 posts on the Flyers board this season have been very informative. Clearly you are one of the great hockey minds that Detroit has to offer. Bring something to the table or go away. 

Don't let him fool you. no one in philly really calls it a "cheesesteak" either. it's just a steak sandwich, with or without cheese.

And we need to be carefull before this degenerates into a Pat's vs. Geno's vs. Jim's vs. Dalessandro's vs. Chink's (whatever its new name is) thread.

You forgot Tony Luke's which blows the doors off of Pat's and Geno's and Jim's and Bob's and......(let the great steak debate begin!!!!)

Yet another off season where Flyers management blows up the team

I stopped reading here.

your logic is seriously flawed. who cares that Vinny was captain of a stanley cup winning team. APPARENTLY QUITE A FEW OTHER TEAMS SAW A LOT OF VALUE IN VLC AND WANTED HIM TOO, FOR THE SAME REASONS THE FLYERS WANTED HIM, BUT I GUESS YOU KNOW MORE THAN NHL GM'S.

that was years ago. using your reasoning, had the flyers signed wayne gretzky or mark messier, winners of 5 and 6 stanley cup rings respectively, that wouldn't stunt or be bad for the team, either. YEAH I'M SURE THE RANGERS ARE BUMMED THAT THEY BROUGHT MESSIER IN FOR LEADERSHIP AFTER HE HAD WON HIS CUPS IN EDMONTON.

the simple fact is that Vinny will be centering the second line, displacing Schenn to wing, THAT IS THE BEST YOU CAN COME UP WITH? A PROFESSION NHL FORWARD MAY SPEND SOME TIME ON WING INSTEAD OF CENTER? OH THE HUMANITY!

and keeping Couturier as a third line centerman (4th if he keeps playing the way he did). UH, THAT IS PROBABLY WHERE HE WOULD BE PLAYING WITH OR WITH OUT VLC ON THE TEAM.

how is that helping those two develop? Schenn is forced to play out of position while Couturier will be forced to play sparingly. And, then there's Laughton.....relegated to the minors. FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN, ANOTHER YEAR IN THE MINORS WOULD ONLY HELP LAUGHTONS DEVELOPMENT AND HE WILL STILL GET SOME NHL TIME.

also, you mentioned that centerman was a missing piece. REALLY? C was our deepest position: G, Schenn, Cout, Laughton. Vinny's money would have been better spent finding a young winger or young d-man. MAN YOU JUST CANT GET PAST THAT VLC PLAYS CENTER. WILL YOU BE HAPPY WITH THE MOVE IF VINNY MOVES TO THE WING?

and, i argue that you don't make a move for Vinny unless he is that one piece who puts you over the top; COME PLAYOFF TIME, MAYBE VLC IS THE PIECE WHO PUTS YOU OVER THE TOP, YOU NEVER KNOW

otherwise, why spend 4.5 million per year for an ageing C who not only ties up valuable cap space, but blocks the development of younger players.

SERIOUSLY? THAT IS ALL YOU THINK VLC DOES ON THIS TEAM? DEAD WEIGHT? YOU ABSOLUTELY REFUSE TO SEE ALL THE UPSIDE THAT HE CAN BRING TO THIS TEAM.

THIS IS A HARD SALARY CAP LEAGUE, EVERY DOLLAR MATTERS.

AGREED, BUT LET'S SAY THEY PICK UP A DIFFERENT PLAYER, EVEN A WINGER, AT 3 MIL. DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT THE DIFFERENCE OF 1.5 MIL IS GOING TO MAKE THE DIFFERENCE AND BLOCK THEIR ABILITY TO BE SUCCESSFUL WHEN THEY ARE PROJECTING THE CAP TO GO UP BY 10 MIL AFTER NEXT SEASON?

I THINK YOU ARE THE ONE WITH SERIOUSLY FLAWED LOGIC. EITHER THAT OR YOU JUST LOVE TO HATE.

@aziz

Great minds think alike! You just type faster than I do!

Haven't we seen this movie before: signing past-their-prime players to absurd contracts and concomitantly rewarding one of your best players with a bloated contract before he really earns it (I love Giroux but he is very inconsistent: mediocre defensively and average at 5 on 5 play).

What happened to the youth movement? EXACTLY WHICH OF OUR YOUTH ARE GOING TO LOSE WITH THE DEALS HOMER HAS MADE? ANSWER - NONE.

The signing of Vinny stunts the development of Schenn, Couturier and Laughton. BECAUSE HAVING A STANLEY CUP WINNING FORMER CAPTAIN IS KRYPTONITE FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF YOUNG PLAYERS?

And, for what reason? Lecavelier is not the missing piece - the player who puts us over the top. THERE WAS MORE THAN ONE MISSING PIECE AND VINNY FILLS ONE OF THOSE MISSING PIECES.

We are very slow up front, UHHHH, GIROUX, VORACEK, SIMMONDS, ALL HAVE RESPECTABLE SPEED AND READ COULD BE ONE OF THE FASTEST SKATERS IN THE LEAGUE.

lack bangers who can get the puck in the corners, SIMMONDS, HARTNELL, AND RINALDO ARE ALL PRETTY GOOD AT THIS.

our defense is terrible. OUR DEFENSE WAS LAST YEAR WAS RIDDLED WITH INJURY AND PLAYED TERRIBLY, HOWEVER IT APPEARS OUR TOP 6 D THIS YEAR WILL BE KIMMO, SCHENN, COBURN, STREIT, GROSSMAN, GUSTAFSON. IF THEY STAY HEALTHY THEY MAY NOT BE THE TOP DEFENSE IN THE NHL NEXT YEAR BUT POSSIBLY TOP 5 OR 10 IN THE LEAGUE. I'M NOT GOING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT BUT FEEL FREE TO COMPLAIN IF YOU THINK IT WILL HELP.

and we have a huge question mark in goal. AGREED BUT I STILL LIKE OUR CHANCES WAY BETTER WITH MASON/EMORY THAN WITH BRYZASTER AND LEAKY.

We are not one player away from competing for the Cup. Sorry. WHO EVER SAID THE FLYERS WERE ONE PLAYER AWAY FROM A CUP LAST YEAR???

Wouldn't we have been better off rebuilding and commiting to a youth movement. This team is mired in mediocrity for a reason and it is not a coincidence that we haven't won the Cup in decades: horrible management that lacks a vision - with no idea how to construct a team. As long as Snider and Gomer are in charge, expect to see the same, sad movie over and over again. THE FLYERS 13/14 WILL BE MUCH STRONGER THAN LAST YEAR, POSSIBLY EVEN A CUP CONTENDER, AND WE DIDNT LOSE ANY OF OUR YOUNG GUYS. I WOULDNT CONSIDER THAT MEDIOCRITY BUT I GET THE FEELING NOTHING WILL MAKE YOU HAPPY. HOMER HAS MADE SOME VERY DUMB MOVES OVER THE YEARS BUT SO FAR NOT THIS SUMMER. HE STILL HAS TIME THOUGH.

It's going to cost us one of the kids, first of all.

Why? Cap hit is 4.5, That is not that bad for all that Vinny can bring to the table and there are other pieces that would be moved before we would be forced to let go of one of the kids. I think Mez is gone, maybe for a bag of pucks, but I take Vin over Mez any day of the week. (and yes I know we need D, but we dont need D that only can play a handful of games a year.)

and THEN adding a piece as the final star on the Christmas tree.

Just like Pissburgh and Boston thought they had done when signing Morrow, Iginla, Murray and Jagr?

it takes pressure off of giroux which had alot of in this past season

I agree with this.

Uhh... Because its a stupid contract for a player you didn't need?

As an objective observer, you dont think the flyers could benefit from LeCavalier? For the experience, leadership, and skill set that he still brings to the table I dont think the contract is that bad. We may not like the last year or so of the contract but I can live with that and for those of us who saw how tremendously the young kids benfited from Jagr's presence, I almost like this signing for that component alone. This signing may not have been good for other teams but i dont mind it for the Flyers. I still think we pick up another D man to address that concern and who knows with the goalie situation but as Flyers fans, we are used to that!!

I really dont understand all the hatred on this signing. Vinny still has a lot in the tank in my opinion and will probably be re-vitalized on a new team, has a cup and veteran leadership to bring to the young guys, 5 years at 4.5 is not that deep, and I dont think he was going to sign ANYWHERE without a NMC to end his career. The young guys will still get plenty of ice time and they have a cup winning, veteran that proabably feels he still has something to prove and lead by example. I like this signing. I dont love it but I do like it.

If we were going to waste all that $$$ Id rather have a younger power winger like Horton.

Not a chance in france you get Horton for 4.5 mil a year. He is going to be closer to 6 mil. I really dont understand all the hatered on this signing. Vinny still has a lot iin the tank in my opinion, has a cup and veteran leadership to bring to the young guys, 5 years at 4.5 is not that deep,and I dont think he was going to sogn ANYWHERE without a NMC to oend his career. I like this signing. I dont love it but I do like it.

PS - "Fire all the things!"

This could be the best thread ever!

Fixed.

well played.

No to this. LeWang is a talented offensive defenseman but there is no way the Flyers should entertain this. I want no part of what is going to be a huge contract for such a one-sided player.

Life's certainties....

Death. Taxes. The Pens not trading Letang to the Flyers.

You forgot to add Crosby whining.

While I agree that Harnell is a good teammate, I can't agree with:

He's been benched a few times for exactly that. He was out of shape coming into this season (that's on him) ADD HIM TO A LOOOOONG LIST OF PLAYERS WHO WERE NOT IN SHAPE AT CAMP THIS SEASON. I THINK MANY PLAYERS THOUGHT THERE WASNT A CHANCE IN HELL THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE A SEASON THIS YEAR.

and the year before he was on the G/Jagr line, he was horendous. In fact most on this board (silly.com) were calling for him to be traded. HE DID HAVE A BAD YEAR BUT I DIDNT SEE IT A RESULT OF LACK OF EFFORT OR HUSTLE. HE ALSO HAD A BIG BOUNCE BACK YEAR.

He also has had some pretty favorable line-mates through the years....

V. Leino, Briere

Giroux, Jagr

You can look at it two ways: 1) he helped that line be successful or 2) He benefited from a good line. IN A PERFECT WORLD THERE IS A 3RD OPTION AND THAT IS SYNERGY - WHEN 2 OR MORE PARTIES WORK TOGETHER TO CREATE SOMETHING FAR GREATER THAN THE INDIVIDUAL PARTS. I'D LIKE TO THINK THAT OCCASSIONALLY LINES HAVE SYNERGY AND THE PLAYERS ON THAT LINE BRING OUT THE BEST IN EACH OTHER.

I'm in camp #2. I think Hartnell's latest contract will end up ranking up there with the worst contracts (length, $ and NMC) Homer gave out. Bryz, Pronger, Briere, Hartnell in that order off the top of my head. HMMMMMM, AGREED IT'S NOT A GOOD CONTRACT, TOO MUCH FOR TOO LONG BUT I FEEL LIKE AT LEAST HARTSY TRIES TO EARN THAT PAY CHECK EACH NIGHT, AS DID PRONGER. NOT SURE I CAN SAY THE SAME ABOUT BRIERE (THOUGH I DID REALLY GROW TO LIKE HIM AS A FLYER) AND DEF CANT SAY THAT ABOUT BRYZ.

SEE COMMENTS IN CAPS

Read is going to command 4-4.5 mill per i bet.

Sounds a bit high to me but you may be right.