2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Oh i think they'll show up like last they were playing very well then these starting losing guys injuries and covid and well they packed it in no one stepped up.

 

So my biggest concerned is can they maintain...can they finish strong too.

 

And not be outside looking in??

 

Adversity is what builds character....and i'm not sure they can over come adversity.

 

But they have a chance to prove me wrong. This is the blame the coach year is it??

 

Then this team should have character coming out the wazoo!!

Here is my prediction......Flyers miss the playoffs yet again, some improvement in their own end but not enough offence to carry the team to the playoffs let alone be a division contender.

Problem is no leadership from the HC on down. Giroux is not and never has been a leader Couturier might be, but if never given the chance we will never know.

I still contend management and coaching is a major factor in the poor play of this team. (not a popular opinion on here but my opinion non the less) I just call  'em like I see 'em.

As I see it he has not really improved this team, yeah the defense will be improved I think.

But the lack of offence in my opinion has not improved and not the cupboard is bare in the draft pick shelf.

IMO Fletcher is a complete joke as a GM.........this team will miss the playoffs yet again, sigh. 

I thought this place would be a good place to talk hockey with other Flyer fans. As it turns out I was wrong. Most on here are incapable of civil conversation.

If a person dosen't agree with their point of view they are insulted and ridiculed.

Well I'm out.

Go Flyers Go

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

The captain of his team, the 3rd leading scorer in franchise history,a guy who is 10 ten in scoring over his career, top 5 face of % in the league. I can keep going.

Giroux is very good at hockey. One of the 15 best players of his era. 

He is worth a blue chip prospect and first rounder. Any team would be made better by adding him. 

 

I interpreted your post as unnecessarily antagonistic and of little value to the conversation. 

You want to talk hockey-talk hockey. 

You want to troll a conversation you can kick rocks. 

 

 

Like I said nobody is going to give that for Giroux as a rental. First you have to get him to wave his N/T clause. But hey keep living in your fantasy world.

You keep saying trade the whole team, fine and well, but how do you do it? You have to have a trading partner. No GM is going to give a better player for a lesser one. So you retain salary and give draft picks and prospects, well there goes your rebuild. You have just hamstrung the team for years to come.

28 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

I do think Giroux is worth that. He's a proven and consistent playmaking point producer who would make virtually any team's top six. I have no doubt there are teams who see their window being open right now who would absolutely love to get their hands on a guy like him.

 

But yeah, the others that really need trading right now won't fetch that kind of return.

Even with Giroux do you think as a rental he is worth that much? He is a UFA after this season has a N/T clause.

I just don't see it but ya never know I guess stranger things have happened.

You know as long as the Leafs don't win the cup I'm ok. lol

Cheers

3 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

No you do not.

Do and think whatever you like.

 

However, my indifference toward your opinion on this particular subject cannot be overstated. 

Mattered enough that you commented on my post.

Ok I'll play your game, what player on the Flyers is worth a first rounder and a top notch prospect?

Aside from Hart, Provorov and Couturier and you aren't trading any of those three. 

1 minute ago, mojo1917 said:

Okay thanks for the input.

What my opinion doesn't count?

Do I need to bow to your hockey wisdom?

21 hours ago, tucson83 said:

if the caps dont resign ovi, that's the player i would bring in,  the rest of names from fa that won championships, bozak, hjalmarsson, Martinez.

Not going to happen, Ovi is a Capital for life.

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

this is correct for how I was interpreting this idea.

The coaches would be the senior leaders.

I wasn't dragging Dave Scott into the flow chart. 

So, during that time, who would you have built around or tried to build around ?

Name 4 Flyers all-stars who were not them during that stretch, Konecny, Timnonen, and... who else am I missing.

 

I can agree, G was never a captain prior to the NHL, was too young, shouldn't have been thrust upon the fanbase as the replacement for Dave Poulin and all the great Flyers captains. 

The team was terrible for most of the VeeGees® radoran  time. 

I don't think the reason the team was bad was because G wasn't leading, it was because the team was suk. 

If he were worse in all facets of the game and responsibilities,  it may have worked out better for the team, higher picks less playoffs, more cracks at that sweet sweet lottery luck.

 

Like I said, I'm over it, trade him- get a 2022 1st round pick and Alex Newhook.

Shed salary and go free-agent shopping/trading in the offseason.

 

 

 

 

 

No way you are getting anything close to that for him, or that matter current f

Flyer with the exception of Carter Hart.

Too much wishful thinking on here not rooted in reality. IMO.

Honest question, why do you all think any other GM is going to trade top notch players for our scrubs?

Yeah we could add draft picks and prospects or retain salary but that in turn hampers a rebuild.

Makes little to no sense to me to completely gut the team. Hell nobody wanted Ghost for free.

9 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Maybe but i am sorry but how can you NOT scratch Jake Voracek with his countless turnovers and floating back to pretend to back check i have seen time and time again and then single out TK is my only problem with it.

you mean Vorawontbacek........

15 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

I'm not arguing. I'm telling you what you said was wrong because you were factually incorrect so many times.

 

The only obsession here is you asserting things that are just wrong. That's not on me. That's all you.

 

I have clearly said give Couturier the C and move anyone else over 28 and build around that. Try to keep up.

 

G is done after next season, hope (or influence) Seattle to take JVR, retain salary and trade Voracek. Hayes and his NMC is problematic but he doesn't have the stink of the past eight years.

 

That certainly is more effective than replacing the captain on the Titanic after it hit the iceberg.

 

Babcock seems like a perfect choice for this roster. He hasn't coached a team out of the first round or higher than 3rd in a division since 2013.

Here is a list of players over 28

What are you going to do with them all?

Justin Braun Born 1987

Sean Couturier Born 1992

Brian Elliott Born 1985

Claude Giroux Born 1988

Erik Gustafsson  Born 1992

Kevin Hayes Born 1992

Alex Lyon Born 1992

Michael Raffl Born 1988

Jakub Voracek Born 1989

JVR Born 1989

Plus there are a few getting close to your cut off number.

That's 9 players on a 23 man roster, I didn't count Lyon.

How on earth do you plan on turning that many players over?

1 minute ago, radoran said:

 

I'm not arguing. I'm telling you what you said was wrong because you were factually incorrect so many times.

 

The only obsession here is you asserting things that are just wrong. That's not on me. That's all you.

 

I have clearly said give Couturier the C and move anyone else over 28 and build around that. Try to keep up.

 

G is done after next season, hope (or influence) Seattle to take JVR, retain salary and trade Voracek. Hayes and his NMC is problematic but he doesn't have the stink of the past eight years.

 

That certainly is more effective than replacing the captain on the Titanic after it hit the iceberg.

 

Babcock seems like a perfect choice for this roster. He hasn't coached a team out of the first round or higher than 3rd in a division since 2012.

Tell me who you trade Jake to? Nobody will want him. What do you do with Ghost? Nobody wanted him for free.

What do you do with the rest of the team that has been here for a few years? You keep babbling that the players have sucked for 10 years, then why have numerus GM's kept them around? You would think that in 10 years one of them would have thought "these guys suck maybe I should get rid of them" buy hey they didn't.

It is much easier to try a new coach than it is to replace a whole team. It has been done multiple times in the NHL.

So why is AV more qualified than Babcock?

14 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

I feel bad somebody ain't eating...

 

 

That's kinda funny in a way but also very sad.

As of March 2021, he is the only coach to gain entry to the Triple Gold Club (Stanley Cup title, IIHF World Championship title, and Olympic gold medal in men's ice hockey). He guided the Red Wings to the Stanley Cup in 2008; he led Team Canada to gold at the IIHF Ice Hockey World Championships in 2004; and he led Team Canada to gold at both the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver, and the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi. Babcock is the only coach to win six distinct national or international titles. In addition to the three distinct titles described above, he guided Canada to gold at the 2016 World Cup of Hockey, to gold at the IIHF World Junior Championships in 1997, and the University of Lethbridge to the CIS University Cup in 1994.

Tell me is is not more qualified than AV.

2 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

No offense meant, but it's time to ask: are you, or have you ever been. a member or close associate of the Babock family?

 

Seriously.

 

 

Not at all, Just think he is the kind of coach this team needs at this point and time, and he is available. Heck he might tell thr Flyers to take a flying leap but IMO he is a better coach than AV.

16 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

thank you for proving my point we have gone through 5 coaches in the past 10 yrs. And guess what... the core has been with the 5 past five coaches. Head coaches have been changed and per your own words if they still don’t respond then it is time moving players. Guess what... it is that time to start moving players.

Ok, fair. So the whole thing is on the GM's from the past 10 years for keeping these crappy players and giving huge contracts to undeserving players. While I don't think you are entirely wrong, all the GM's must have seen something in the players.

For the record I think Hextall was on the right track with this team his downfall was refusing to fire Hakstol, who should never been a NHL HC.

12 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

So then the time to do this was about six years ago or at the very least when they made the last GM/coach change two years ago.

 

The two constants in all of this are Giroux and Voracek and it is just not working.

You know you keep arguing telling me everything I'm saying is wrong. But no where have you sad what needs to happen to fix this and how to do it.

Although I'm flattered with your obsession with my posts I sure would like to hear your solution and plan.

I have said mine, Fire AV and bring in Babcock.

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yeah i think that hot run we saw before the shut down fooled us all...just a mirage.  

 

Same goes for that round robin when they beat the Caps, Bruins and Bolts then barely scrapped pass Montreal before being bounced by the Isles. #MIRAGE

 

Agree 100% on this.

51 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

then riddle me this.... there is NO guarantee the players respond to the next coach. Then what? Do you go onto Coach X? Or onto Coach Y and Z? At what point does this vicious cycle end?

Well That is a good question. I think you change the coach once if that doesn't get the players attention then make major roster changes.

Calgary seems to have turned a corner with Sutter as the new HC. But only time will tell.

3 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Fletcher signed ONE of thise long term deals - Hayes.

 

And we can agree Gus was a mistake.

They already fired the guys that signed G, V, and JVR.

 

How's that working out for them?

Where in my post did I say Fletcher made all the deals?

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

Discuss:

NHL Trade Talk: Scott Laughton added to TSN’s Trade Bait List

 

Scott Laughton was added at No. 16 by Frank Seravalli, which isn’t an insignificant slot for the forward.

 

“The Flyers also have a decision to make with Laughton. The pending UFA is due for a raise, on pace for his second straight 45-point season over 82 games and he plays his role to perfection as a feisty, 200-foot player. If the Flyers fall further out of the playoff mix, GM Chuck Fletcher may have to consider moving him.”

 

Laughton has 17 points (seven goals, 10 assists) in 32 games this season. He had 27 points (13 goals, 14 assists) in just 49 games last year.

 

The forward has a cap hit of $2.3 million and his contract expires after this season.

 

If the Flyers aren’t going to contend, they might as well give some NHL time to some prospects. Tanner Laczynski and Wade Allison are two of the main names to watch, among others.

 

We’re now into April with the NHL trade deadline on April 12th. The Flyers have six games left to prove that they are buyers –– or for players to increase their value if Fletcher sells.

Yeah, trade one of the only players on this team actually playing decent. Makes sense right?

14 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

And it begins with some of the veteran players.

 

no this has been going for the past decade.

 

comparing apples to oranges...

Berube gets fired from here and wins the Cup with the Blues.

Lavy gets fired from here and takes the Preds to the SCF’s.

 

No they quit on themselves...

Ok, you disagree with everything I said and that's ok, we all have different ideas.

So how do you fix it?

How are you going to get rid of the core?

G at 8.275 mil a year 1 year remaining as per capfriendly

Jake at 8.250 a year 3 years remaining as per capfriendly

Hayes at roughly 7 mil a year 5 years remaining as per capfriendly

JVR at 7 mil a year 2 years remaining as per capfriendly

Gus at 3 mil a year thank God he is done after this year as per capfriendly

Ghost at 3.425 mil a year 2 years remaining as per capfriendly

That is the core everybody is blaming, fine but how do you get rid of them if they are all dead weight?

Tried waving Ghost but no takers. Do you think any team in a flat cap will trade to take on those contracts?

See a pattern here? Overpaying declining talent or over rating talent. That's on the GM

Not getting the most out of the players you have be they good or bad that's on the coach.

49 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Certainly plausible.

Add to what you said the fact that after COVID, their schedule got condensed to where there was no time off to clear their heads after a bad game. No time to practice, just an onslaught of games -when they were struggling to find theirs.

Truly everything went to hell all at once.

If it wasn't for the fact it is my favorite team it would be comical.

I don't recall a time when guys just took their sticks for skates, but I saw after the score went to 4-1 last night.

I don't know if this group of players can "turn it around", maybe the rest helps, maybe some practice helps.

Certainly having the goaltenders stopping some pucks would help. Who knows, it's not looking or feeling like the season can be "salvaged".

 

I truly wonder if the FO is going to write this season off.

There have been myriad theories from complete rebuild to band-aid additions... Who knows how plausible any of our ideas are and; the FO's inaction to make any "moves" is starting to speak loudly about this season.

I expect the team to be vastly different at camp next season. 

 

I think COVID is a convenient excuse, every team is dealing with exactly the same thing. Why are the Flyers the only team that tanked and are not meeting expiations? Here is what I think, Last year we were a team playing way over our heads riding a hot goalie. When the time came to play the same teem over and over we were exposed.

This year with the weird schedule we are again playing teams over and over. Their coaches have figured out how to beat us and our coaches won't change the system.

Frankly we weren't a very good team last year and we aren't a very good team this year.

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

Sorry, skipped the rest of your post because I got fixated on this question

 

This is what I think.... when the covid break occurred, something went wrong internally with the team. Maybe player to player, maybe player to coach. They maintained enough to get through the playoff round, but adversity hit again, off the ice, and the team got wiped out. It has continued to the point of no repair. I think there is a division amongst the players, and between players and coaches. The large majority of players have quit on the team. Maybe they want out. Maybe they want the coach out

You could quite possibly be right. But how do they fix it?

You can't replace the whole team, so if it's just a couple players get rid of the bad apples.

If it's the whole team you get rid of the coach, my problem is this has been going on for over a month with no changes.

I have a friend that is a huge Canuck fan and he said this is exactly the same thing that happened there with AV except it's happening faster here. Take that for what it's worth, a fans opinion.

I think the team has quit on the coach. Not a good place to be, but yet here we are.