radoran

One might argue they haven't done much with developing Nash, either. I'd say Nash was a prohibitive #1 in 2002 (Lehtfourin, Bouwmeester, Pitkanen, Whitney, Upshall, Lupul followed). He was billed as a can't miss goal scorer and he's been a can't miss goal scorer. He's never been much else, though. Goals per season: 17-41-31-27-38-40-33-32 He scored 40 in his second season. I don't think Columbus "developed" him at all. If anything, IMO, they're sucking the life out of his career.

Lindros and Primeau far predate Crosby. If it's a karma thing, it dates to long before now...

It's really incredible how 10 top ten picks have turned out for Columbus. 2000 - Rostisalv Klesla (4) - no longer with team 2001 - Pascal Leclaire (8) - no longer with team 2002 - Rick Nash (1) - duh 2003 - Nickolai Zherdev (4) - no longer with team; um, yeah 2004 - Alexandre Picard (8) - no longer with team; no, not *that* one, the *other* one 2005 - Gilbert Brule (6) - no longer with team 2006 - Derrick Brassard (6) - oddly enough, still with the team 2007 - Jakub Voracek (7) - no longer with team 2008 - Nikita Filatov (6) - no longer with team 2009 - John Moore (21) - in AHL 2010 - Ryan Johansen (4) - still on roster 2011 - no first rounder (transferred to Philadelphia - Sean Courturier)

Hartnell's NTC had kicked in. Richards' and Crater's had not. They could move Richards and Crater without needing their approval. They could not move Hartnell without his. The Giroux/Jagr pairing with Hartnell is perfect for him. Like many/most power forwards, Hartnell is a product of the line he's on. With a creative C and a solid guy on the other W, it opens up the ice for Hartnell to play his game. He can be almost a forgotten third man as teams focus on trying to shut down Jagr and worry about Giroux.

these are people who habitually lose track of rooms...

I would not have minded Vokoun at all - as a vet to "bridge" to a mature Bobrovsky, for example. The Flyers don't look for that. They're a quick fix team - they don't rebuild, they "retool." Not my preferred way, but the way it is. I don't think Bob has "inferior" stats to Bryz - I think they have basically the same stats both this season and over their careers. Bryz has five times as many games and is the more "proven" commodity. "Proven" is what the Flyers as an organization were looking for. "Potential" has only taken them so far. Bryz' regular season #s don't bother me - it's how he handles the playoffs. I'm not going to truly evaluate this signing until we have that look (but it was a bad signing for too long and too much lol)

Apologies. I didn't mean to belittle. I do believe that we as a fanbase have been conditioned to prefer the "devil we don't know" over the "devil we know" - often to the detriment of both. And the Flyers as an organization hasn't helped it by running the goalie carousel faster than the coaching carousel. I see the Bryzgalov signing as the franchise making a definitive end to the debate. They will sink or swim with Bryzgalov, barring injury. With Bobrovsky available as a capable backup for this and next seasons, why shake it up more? He's proven he can handle 50 starts and put up comparable stats to your #1. But unless Bryz either breaks a leg or gets vertigo, he's the guy. Yes, he needs to step up his game - but he needs the same consistency and work that you feel - rightly - would benefit Bobrovsky in order to do so. He's not going to find his game riding the pine. Cory Schneider may be splitting time with Roberto Luongo in Vancouver in November, but come April Luongo's getting the call. Marty Biron's posted a 1.94/.930 in New York - but he's not unseating Lundqvist. Harding's stood on his head in Minnesota at times this season, but the Wild are still committed to Backstrom for $6M for next. Enroth's 2.32/.920 isn't going to supplant Miller. I just find the immediate topic of "how bad can Bryz get?" the day after a WIN smacks of Mike Schmidt's classic line: "Philadelphia, where you can experience the thrill of victory and the agony of reading about it the next day." Your mileage may vary. I hold your opinion in high regard despite your prediction about Jagr & Nodl ;-)

How about his career stats? Which are exactly the same? How about last years, 52-start stats? 2.50, .915 - again, right in line with Bryzgalov's career stats. The biggest things Bob has going for him is "potential" and "up side" - there is no actual "evidence" to suggest that working him more will result in significant improvement in play. I respect your belief that it is true but, to me the main benefit he has appears to be in "not being the guy who just signed the contract no one likes" and being the "we don't remember the bad goal from last night" guy? Suppose they'd gone whole hog behind Bob this season, with, say, Leighton backing up? And Bob performed exactly as he has this season but with more starts? And the team was simply the third best record in the league, a point out of the Conference lead? But Bob had been chased in a game and looked a little shaky in another couple, while posting last year's 2.59/.915 (last year at this time, he'd been pulled in an 8-7 loss to TAM (4 first period goals) a0nd lost 5-1 to PIT giving up 4). Would there still be people arguing that Bob was a disappointment and that Leighton should "get a shot" and would "play better if he played more"? Yes. In short, I see this discussion as little more than a continuation of the "why not play the backup?" trope for which Philly fans are famous. I *like* both goalies. One might have a ridiculous contract. The other an expensive backup. But I like their play. 2.5 GAA and .915 SV% is borderline top 10 in the league among starters. A more stable defense and those numbers get better. And a healthy Pronger. And in Pronger's health and Bryzgalov's head have the Flyers put the next five years.

Glad to be here, FC - and good to see many of you folkses again :-)

I don't know what else to say here but: I think the signing was a bad signing. I think the signing was a bad signing. I think the signing was a bad signing. I think the signing was a bad signing. I think the signing was a bad signing. I think the signing was a bad signing. I think the signing was a bad signing. I think the signing was a bad signing. I think the signing was a bad signing. I think the signing was a bad signing. I think the signing was a bad signing. I think the signing was a bad signing. I think the signing was a bad signing. I think the signing was a bad signing. I can continue to make this point for the next nine years, but it might get a little old, eh? You might take into account that I have made and will continue to make that point - CONCURRENT with the point that the Flyers are going to play Bryz more than Bob. I was going on the Versus hyperbole about Miller. Probably should have used quotes. Or said "winningest." If you think I'm short-selling my fellow UVM Alum Tim Thomas, I'm not :-) Now, as I showed above, so far this season Bob's stats are IDENTICAL to Bryzgalov and he's been chased as many times as Bryz - in fewer games. Career-wise? Bryz: 345 games, 2.55, .915 Bob: 63 games, 2.62, .913 What's the "up side" to playing Bob? Why the hue and cry to put in the guy with IDENTICAL stats to Bryzgalov - both over his career and this season? If nothing else, Bryzgalov has shown that he can be consistent at that level for FIVE TIMES as many games as Bob has. "Might" Bob blossom into the next Patrick Roy? Sure, that's possible. He could also dissolve into Trevor Kidd (without the kewl padz). The "down side?" Destroying the goalie you've just signed for nine years and committed 8.8% of your total cap to... Shhh! Be Vewy Qwiet... I'm hunting heffalumps...

No one said they could "routinely" give up 3-goals leads and get it back "as a matter of course." I could just as easily turn around and say something hyperbolic like "if the goalies don't shut out every team, the Flyers might have to score more than one goal as a matter of course otherwise they'd be fair to middlin' in the standings!" Having already stipulated that the nine-year, $56M contract was a Bad Idea, what more would you like? Here are the two Flyer goalies so far this year: Bryz: 11-5-2, 2.89, .900 Bob: 5-2-1, 2.82, .900 I fail to see what "playing Bob" gives the Flyers over "playing Bryz." All other things being equal - like it or not - the team is going to play the guy they hired to be the #1 more often than the guy they hired to be a backup. Would I have made the same choices? No. Yes, "if" things were different, they would be different. They're not. The Flyers signed Bryzgalov to the contract, He's the #1 goalie. They're 16-7-3 with the third best record in the league and one point out of the Conference lead, which they can take tonight, at home. I'm not asking anybody. I'm just telling everybody. We can argue about Bryzgalov, or we can play 'Here we go gathering Nuts in May' with the end part of an ants' nest. It's all the same to me.

I would hate for the Gordie Howe Hat Trick to no longer be possible. That said, I also hate to see #45 occupying a roster spot and cap space...

Adam and Kassian are good fits for Leino, if you look at his time in Philly Kassian = Hartnell (with better hands and skating) Adam = Briere (with a little more size and a lot less experience) I was very impressed with Kassian. And, like you, I am getting less and less so with Ruff.

Well, I think Miller's comment indicates that it's not (always) "intentional" - and if you're a goalie the LAST thing you want is to be out there without a mask on...

He would have had a completely different life, most likely living in a small town, unheard of in Western Canada. Quite frankly, I question the medical ethics of most people associated with professional teams. The Flyers have had incident after incident, not all of which went to court, but some that did. LaPerriere coming back was ridiculous, for example. And ended his career. Doctors are professionals with professional organizations that are expected to do some regulation and policing. Ethically, they should be on the hook to make such oversight happen. Realistically, the league needs to pull it's collective head out from its collective posterior. I don't know how to ban "the enforcer" without banning fighting, but I would be in favor of ending "the enforcer" role. Players who stay up all night the night before - repeatedly - knowing that they will have one role tomorrow - to fight - is not, IMO, hockey. An Arron Asham or Chris Kunitz (or Mike Richards) who drops the gloves "when needed" is, to me, a different story. If you want to make it a 5 with automatic game misconduct, I could go with that. The Boogaard case is a horrible story. As is the Fedoruk saga, etc. And there are many players for whom the "only path" to the NHL was fighting. I'm sorry, but that path, again IMO, doesn't need to be there.

I think the second one is probably right. They did make some good points about there being no chinstrap on goalie helmets, but I would imagine that's part of the protection from the 90mph piece of hardened rubber being flung at you. A more secure helmet would pass more of the impact. The collision with his own player I just can't see as premeditated - unless they have some drills or talk about situations in which to attempt to rip your own goalie's mask off and agreement from the goalie as to when to expect this to happen.. Which I simply don't believe. Boosh did the same thing, IIRC, in the playoffs last year for the Flyers. It does go both ways... That said, I wouldn't mind some ruling on "intentional delay of game" in similar situations - aside from the fact that it would give more "discretion" to the refs...

As reluctant as I am to indulge in this purely academic exercise - as Bryzgalov will be the #1 G here for at least the next 2-3 seasons regardless - one must point out (as the announcers did last night) that there were some pretty big stops in the 3rd and OT that kept the Flyers in the game and gave them an opportunity to win it. The third goal was a definitely weak goal. No question. Aside from that, I'm not sure that many goalies get the other three. Could Bryz maybe have tried a Miller-type poke check on Kassian instead of giving up the drop pass? Maybe. Could Kassian have taken the shot in that situation and beat a reaching Bryzgalov? Maybe. Should someone have had coverage on the follow down the slot that scored on the Kassian drop? Yep. Did we all pretty much figure Leino would score against the Flyers. Probably... There's a whole thread on Pronger being out and the "need" to sign someone to shore up the defense - but (while, to be clear, it IS the goalie's job to stop pucks) any goal that goes in is entirely the goalie's fault? Not quite. Bryz is capable of sucking. All goalies are. Bryz' SV% against the Sabres was .833. The best American goalie currently playing's SV% last night? .853. He's also capable of being better than most goalies. No, I would not have signed him to a 9Y, $5.6M per contract. But I'm not the GM. It is done. The die is cast. Oh, and they won the game...

The issue, again, isn't the FANS in Tronno, it's the LEAFS OWNERSHIP.. Ownership has been against a second franchise in the market for years and shows no signs of changing. Again, they're the most valuable franchise in the league and have had to win zip since expansion to get there. What's the "up side" for them allowing another team in their market? This is the NHL. Do you really think they're doing things because the FANS want them a certain way? You've also, respectfully, just argued both that Tronno could support another team in Tronno, but that few Leafs fans in Tronno would "jump ship" for a team about an hour away (depending where in the GTA you live) in Hamilton. I'm not sure it goes both ways - and I'm not sure that Hamilton can support a team without support from SW Tronno Metro and the Niagara peninsula. Related - I don't think Buffalo would be terribly happy with a team in Hamilton, either. Buffalo does a lot of cross-border business - and gets a good crowd from Hamilton for Habs games because of the Bulldogs. Because of the cross-border issues you note, having a team in Hamilton c/would work to dry up a good deal of that revenue. I was just living in Buffalo during the whole "Coyotes to Hamilton" thing blew up and these were the major reasons cited for it not happening.

I'm not disputing Tronno's ability to support the teams, I'm questioning whether the Leaes would allow it to happen. They're not the league's most valuable franchise despite 40 years of abject failure for nothing, you know. Hamilton's a city of 500,000 with a Metro of under 700K. - about the same Metro size as Winnipeg except that Winnipeg doesn't have two established hockey teams (Leaes, Sabres) within a 90 minute drive.

I'm gonna go ahead and opine that 25 games into the first season of a trade is an awful place to try to evaluate it. Suppose, God forbid, Richards never plays another game for the Kings because of concussion. Did the Kings still come out "huge"? Suppose Schenn turns into a 40/40 center in the next 3-4 years. Did the Kings still come out "huge"? We also don't know what that No. 2 turns into. While a crapshoot to be sure, there are some high quality players who came out of the second round. If anything, I think the trade is a bit of a wash on both sides at the moment. The Flyers (apparently) had to shake up the room (again) before being locked into long term contracts with NTCs. The Kings got a solid player who is playing the role he probably should have kept in Philly for a while longer. Both teams could end up coming out "huge" on that deal. After 1/4 of a season, yes, the Kings have gotten more immediate impact on the scoresheet but we likely don't know the full impact the trade had on the Flyers off the scoresheet...

Sounds like Buffalo needs to call up a career AHL goon for their next tilts with Boston and Nashville... What's that? They don't play the Preds again? Good point. But they close the season @ Boston...

great comparison! Of couse, in the AL East Tampa with one of the most godawful stadiums in the league is competitive while the Orioles with the original "beautiful new stadium" is basically drawing flies... Also, too, I totally forgot the Tronno Blue Jayes were in the AL East.

I think you *will* have this situation - and sooner than later. That makes the most sense - and eliminates the ridiculous "3rd seed" division winner.

One can easily see that the Flyers' 06-07 season is such an outlier on their record as to be outside of effective analysis. It's the only time since 1994 - 17 years - that the Flyers didn't make the postseason. Over that stretch they have one fewer first round exit (4) than the Canes have *appearances* (5). The facts are that teams with big payrolls - like the Flyers - can turn things around quickly. Carolina/Islanders simply aren't going to be able to do that. Is it possible that Carolina could make the playoffs as a 4? Sure. But can you seriously see the Hurricanes being in the Top 3 of this "conference" on a consistent basis - EVER? They have five playoff appearances in 14 seasons in Carolina and, even with two Finals appearances, the All Star game and one of the league's exciting young players, they're 24th in home attendance trailing Florida, Tampa Bay and Nashville... They haven't made the playoffs in two years and aren't likely to do so this year, holding the third worst record in hockey having played two more games than the two teams behind them. The Islanders? In fact, the Isles made the playoffs in 06-07 - losing in the first round. The Isles have been to the playoffs four times since 1994 and haven't been out of the first round since 1993. I wouldn't tout the 06-07 Isles as an example that shows the Isles can "compete" in this new "conference." The Leafs haven't sniffed the postseason since the lockout. Ottawa I would think has a better chance in their division of turning around and competing. Hell, they get to play Tronno and Florida six times apiece. The four "conference" playoff system sucks... At least with the two-conference system, the SE Div team could luck into a first round home advantage. This way, they will almost never have home ice.

Hamilton/Kichener will never get NHL teams and I can't see Tronno allowing their monopoly of failure to be sullied by another franchise in the area who might have a commitment to, you know, actually winning something at some point. Good for the Wings and I like the geographic nature of the Conferences (aside from the "Florida in the Northeast" angle - but they do have direct flights for snowbirds...). Tampa not only has a Cup, but also pretty good attendance numbers, if not actual "revenue." Florida? Well, there shouldn't be hockey in Miami... I don't like the unbalanced "conferences" at all, though. Oh, and the national sport of Canada is lacrosse. No, really.