ruxpin

I am Al Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

LOL @ Quigly. not a horrible idea, actually.

Guys, I completely understand the dislike of Bryz. But I really think the faith in Bob is misguided and likely the result of contrast to what the Flyers have had the past couple years. I'm afraid Bob sucks. With some work, he'll be average at best. If the Flyers can dump him for Nabby or another competent goalie, do it. With our offense and now the size on defense, if we even have competence back there in net, we should be highly competitive.

Bob doesn't cut it, and won't. His positioning is lousy, he's extremely poor when the puck is near his feet, and his glove is suspect. And most importantly, he's folded every single time he's been given the opportunity. I don't see any of that changing.

Maybe Columbus is pushing Phily hard because they figure we owe them for sending them Carter.

Jon Kalinski was involved in this trade, per TSN. Kalinski, 2nd, and 4th for Kubina.

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=388202

I do not see much for this season because the general managers with good D offerings are going to be asking a premium. More so I think Holmgren stands pat because he believes he has a good D corp. Yes, I know hard to believe. But, I believe that he feels, and obviously for political reasons, that the problem with this team's funk lies soley with the goalie position and the injury to Pronger. I would even be surprised to see the Hal Gill move. My gut tells me a lot is not being said publically, or for that matter privately, about Pronger but a lot is known. Holmgren and Pronger date back to the Hartford days. If there is no movement for a D man, something is up. Call me crazy.

You're crazy. (but only because you told me to)

I expect - because I've seen it plenty of times - Briere, Jagr, Hartnell and all the rookies cover the point when their-side D-man pinches. I've seen all of them (the fwds) get back quickly and break up plays. I've seen them make nice keeps at the point to keep the 4check alive - all after one of our D-men has either pinched in to catch a wheel-around or after they've led the rush and are below the hash marks.

I think that this is slightly different than the "lock down" thing Mad Dog requested. He kind of (I think) was looking for the Lappy or Betts type player that will do it all the time. I mean, just because I once wrote a good post (it was a dreary autumn night many many years ago), don't expect it all the time. Same with the above examples.

Otherwise, good points, canoli.

Doom...I agree, but for your own good, take a Xanax.

dude, you forgot Michael Handzus!!!

And Dean Lombardi

Mike Richards has worked out fine, so as Ron Hextall,John Stevens,Justin Williams,Terry Murray(RIP).

We disagree on whether they've worked out fine. But having said that, I'll take your trade.

DGG...that was my problem earlier! It just kept adding to my post!

As a Kings fan, would Philly do this?

To Los Angeles

Danny Briere

To Philly

Jack Johnson

Tyler Toffoli

Mhmm?

Yes, but why would the Kings do that? Picking up Philly cast offs has worked so well for them before?

__________________

Jesus H. Christ. It's doing it again.

The difference was Kronwall left his feet and Rinaldo didn't.

Rinaldo didn't stride into the guy, he glided into him, and the victim's own momentum had as much to do with the hit as Rinaldo's. It was a classic great hit, and classic, "Oh, it's Rinaldo? TWO!" from the zebes.

Rinaldo left his feet. He lunged into his head. I have no problem with either call--under current rules. I kind of prefer the rules growing up...you didn't have to leave your junk at home.

@DaGreatGazoo

I think that's why this team might make a minor move..wait to see what happens with CBA..and then go hawg wild as usual, when the rules are clarified...and screw it up massively like last time.

Fixed it for you.

Eh, fair points, I guess. I just really don't want him on the Flyers. And he really only hits on occasion. The rest of the time he skates around thinking "look at me, world." Don't want him. I'd rather have Avery at this point.

Plus, he seemed pretty ticked when he left. I just don't see him being all Mr. Cheery Employee if he came back.

I never want to see Mike Richards in a Flyer uniform again. I finally got rid of him and actually like players on the team for the first time in several years. Why would I want to bring that stupid jerk back?

Don't have time to look. How many years does Timo have left on his contract? Is it NMC? If we're dumping this year, I move him for cap money and go younger. If Pronger is done plus Timo's money and maybe not re-signing Carle, you haven't touched our offense and can try to rebuild the defense.

Not beyond the realm of possibility, brelic. It's not like your suggesting Sestito for Iginla or something.

Yeah, have to agree I don't see this from Nashville's end. The Schenn thing is more plausible, I think. Not thrilled, but it works.

I'm okay with any of that at this point. Anything that attempts to shore up the defense is okay by me. I have a nagging feeling, though, that since it's the defense, we end up with a very minor deal that brings a Lilja-type defenseman back that leaves us all wondering, WTF?

Okay, I have a new question then. If the problems are not on the goalies for the most part, but the defense / team effort...

If the Flyers are able to square up their defensive play a bit, which goaltender do you go with? Do you hope Bryz turns into a near-elite goalie, or do you use the net to try and develop Bobrovsky?

IF the Flyers are able to square up their defensive play, I make a commitment to the kazillion dollar goalie and try to get him to work through whatever the problem is. Part of that is that I don't trust Bob as the starter, but mainly it's because I want the ROI from the kazillion dollar goalie. I like Lavy and have been a lot more patient with him than with recent Flyer head coaches, but I don't think he has helped with goalies with the way he has used them. Bryz, in particular, but even going back the last couple years. At times, his hand was forced, but at other times I think he's helped to create his own problems.

On the other hand, I'm out of tokens in Pick'em and my fantasy team sucks, so what the hell do I know?

They'll make the playoffs, but 6-8 seed should probably be expected. I think I personally was expecting slow start with improvement as the season went along rather than what we've seen, but I think many were with me before the season started in expecting 6-8 seed.

I really do think the beginning of the season was a bit of a mirage. On the other hand, they have a pretty good record considering lousy defense, a ton of injuries, and average goaltending at best. Improvement in any of those areas--doesn't really have to be all of them--and they are fine for the regular season. Come playoffs, it's betting money that they are one and done.

It's really one thing I noticed watching the Sabres more often - people can justifiably question Ruff, but more often than not I see a squad that's at least playing as a five-man unit on the ice.

The Flyers consistently have more talent than most teams, but they aren't the best at being a "team."

Agreed. Terrific points in this thread, rad.

@radoran

You don't run-and-gun teams out of the playoffs. You get run out more often than not.

IMO, if they go into the playoffs running the "system" they are now, they will not get past the first round

Send this to the Flyers. This is my problem both last year and this with Lavy's style of play. They do well early in the season and shoot out to the front of the pack and lead or are near the top in scoring (they were last year, too, if you remember). This is all done while other teams are gelling their defense and coordinating how they're going to play when the games get big. The Flyers? Just run and gun. So later in the year when the other teams' defenses have come together and defense becomes what wins games, the Flyers can no longer score at the rate they were and they haven't spent any real effort on figuring out their defense so you see the record start to fall and we have this same discussion year in year out.

I don't want to go back to the "sit back" mentality we had under Stevens. I have to admit that the "run and gun" is in many ways more entertaining to watch. But it doesn't win when it counts...as you accurately point out. I wouldn't mind a "puck-hunting" mentality that derives from sound defense. That WILL get you offense while protecting your back end. It will also give the goalie a CHANCE to steal a game once in awhile.

it is definitely not entirely on the goalies. however, they are not rising up to the occasion to steal any games. would be nice if they could get a few in there given their combined salaries and supposed talent level.

I don't disagree. On the other hand, I don't know that we're giving them the opportunity to "steal" any games. It would be nice if they cut down on the goofy goals, but other goalies give up goofy goals on occasion (whatsisname last night in Detroit, for example) and their team rallies around them and overcomes it rather than using it as an excuse to lose. But with the incessant bumbleF**king in the defensive end, bad decisions with the puck, bad decisions without the puck, lousy coverage, forwards leaving too quickly, etc., you can have "steals" like Bob did early against the Rangers the other night and it doesn't matter. There's really only so much a goalie should be expected to steal. With this defense, it would amount to more than just stealing. It would be felony grand theft.

well, he's gotten enough starts to prove himself and he has done that... he's proven himself as a very young goaltender who has talent and promise, but is def not a starter in this league right now. for all of bryz faults, he's proven that he can be a proven starter in this league. let's just hope he can get back to that level.

Agreed.

@radoran

Not sure about the sqare peg/round hole thing. I get what you're saying, though, and it's certainly possible.

I just don't think they have the defense. They have their best defenseman on the shelf. They have another really good defenseman who is having a pretty good season but who is on the backside of his career. After that? I cannot say I am impressed. Mezz, Carle, and Coburn are all simply okay but inconsistent. With Pronger being out, they're all probably a notch above where they should be in terms of responsibility and ice time. Then you have a rotation of rookies and Lilja. Again, the rookies are going to show signs of being good but also be inconsistent. The problem is that they are all consistently inconsistent at different times, so you have the incessant breakdowns, lapses of coverage, and flat out bone-headed decisions we're seeing.

In the meantime, you have forwards simply leaving the zone or moving for the breakout entirely too quickly. I'm going to chalk that part up to Lavy's system and an example of your square peg/round hole thing. Since they have inexperienced or only average d-men out there, they need the forwards' help. The "system" is built for run and gun, so they're not giving that help.

As you said, any goalie is going to suffer on this team. In the Ranger game, Bob made absurd stops early, but since you cannot do that all game, he left in a couple and right away "eh Bob doesn't make the big save." Is there any rule about playing with 4 skaters and two goalies? Because short of that, until they fix the defense, neither goalie is going to look all that good.