What should the Wings do at the deadline?

[yave1964]

As we enter the All Star break and the trade deadline is looming a month away the Wings sit with 58 points second in the division behind the Panthers (!) with the Bruins and resurgent Lightning nipping at their heals. They have been road warriors but home cooking not so much. Just wondering what others feel the Wings should do.

Options are

a) Stand pat. Ride it out with a team that has gotten younger and less reliant upon Pavel and Z than at any time in over a decade. Hope the kids lead a deep postseason push.

b) Tinker ot tweak the roster. A small move to add depth, a Versteeg or Lupul for instnance for a veteran middle six scorer.

c) Make a splash. Go crazy and trade for a Dustin Byfuglien or Kevin Shattenkirk.

My opinion is the Wings as currently constructed will not win a cup any time soon. I think they are entertaining and can maybe win a series but something is missing.

  I personally dont believe we have to make a huge move, last year we dealt for Eric Cole and Zidlicky at the deadline, sadly Cole ended his season and career before the postseason. A couple of nice veteran pieces like that is what I would go for again. We dont need to go crazy, a solid shut down defender and a middle six goal scorer would be ideal.

  The two players I would target are:

Keith Yandle and Brayden Schenn

Yandle has long been coveted by the Wings, he chose New York a few years ago but he has not been what they had hoped for, the rangers play a tight shut down everyone responsible for defense first offense second from the back end kind of game and McDonough has developed kind of stealing the thunder from what they signed Yandle to do in the first place. The Rangers are rumored to quietly be shopping him, if the Wings could make the money work he fits our style much better than he ever will in New York.

  As for Schenn, if you know going in that he is a solid middle six forward with a bit of a snarl who has obvious pluses and glaring weaknesses and try to cover the weaknesses and get the most of his strengths, he could be a solid addition.

 I do not see us getting Big Buff or even the plumb prize, Stamkos, a couple of solid veteran players like Yandle and Schenn would work out quite nicely.The cost for Schenn would probably be a first and a middling prospect or a second and a better prospect, well worth it, IMHO. For Yandle it would likely be Marchenko and a middling roster player with a decent salary to make the money work, again, I would absolutely do it in a minute. Both players should be available at the deadline.

 

[WingNut722]

Before I weigh in, @yave1964, I have a couple points to consider.  

 

Pav and Z are both getting older, we all agree to that, and their performance over the course of the season has been below what most of us are accustomed to.  Are they having an off season or is this their inevitable decline?

Nyquist and Tatar are hot and cold, and I wonder about both of them.  They both show flashes of All-Star potential, but then you don't hear from them for a month.  In your quest for a shut-down defender, would you toss one of them in to the pot, especially to ease the salary burden of somebody like Yandle?  

I would agree that a big splash trade is not the answer.  The issue is that the Red Wings are not sorely lacking in one particular discipline.  They are merely okay in all aspects of the game.  This is not something that one or two trade acquisitions will solve.  My vote would be to stand pat at the deadline, and try shopping around this summer.

By the way, another good reason to pay a "premium" for a trade deadline acquisition is the fact that, but the end of the season, just about half the team will have expired contracts.  DDK, Sheahan, Petr Mrazek, just to name a few.  They'll all probably want more money too....

[yave1964]

4 hours ago, WingNut722 said:

Before I weigh in, @yave1964, I have a couple points to consider.

 

Pav and Z are both getting older, we all agree to that, and their performance over the course of the season has been below what most of us are accustomed to.  Are they having an off season or is this their inevitable decline?

Nyquist and Tatar are hot and cold, and I wonder about both of them.  They both show flashes of All-Star potential, but then you don't hear from them for a month.  In your quest for a shut-down defender, would you toss one of them in to the pot, especially to ease the salary burden of somebody like Yandle?

I would agree that a big splash trade is not the answer.  The issue is that the Red Wings are not sorely lacking in one particular discipline.  They are merely okay in all aspects of the game.  This is not something that one or two trade acquisitions will solve.  My vote would be to stand pat at the deadline, and try shopping around this summer.

By the way, another good reason to pay a "premium" for a trade deadline acquisition is the fact that, but the end of the season, just about half the team will have expired contracts.  DDK, Sheahan, Petr Mrazek, just to name a few.  They'll all probably want more money too....

Since his first ten games back which were basically his preseason, Pavel is a point a game player. As for Z after a white hot start he has cooled significantly although he has shown signs of life since being reunited with Larkin.

  Mrazek has been insane and other than he I agree with your basic premise that we are not bad anywhere but not great either just somewhere between good and average. Nyquist is who I would dangle for a d-man if it were my choice, Tatar seems to bring it most every night but Nyquist has games that I am not certain he was even there. He would have a solid value on the block and we have others in the organization who could easily fill his role.

  Darren Helm...... My initial thought was he is a goner after this year but he has been solid. Against the Isles he was lights out, hustled hard, gave them fits. A player who can play either wing or center on any of the 2nd, 3rd or 4th lines is invaluable and while he will command a raise he should not break the bank.

 JOAKIM ANDERSSON IS GONE!!!!!!

[WingNut722]

13 hours ago, yave1964 said:

Since his first ten games back which were basically his preseason, Pavel is a point a game player. As for Z after a white hot start he has cooled significantly although he has shown signs of life since being reunited with Larkin.

  Mrazek has been insane and other than he I agree with your basic premise that we are not bad anywhere but not great either just somewhere between good and average. Nyquist is who I would dangle for a d-man if it were my choice, Tatar seems to bring it most every night but Nyquist has games that I am not certain he was even there. He would have a solid value on the block and we have others in the organization who could easily fill his role.

  Darren Helm...... My initial thought was he is a goner after this year but he has been solid. Against the Isles he was lights out, hustled hard, gave them fits. A player who can play either wing or center on any of the 2nd, 3rd or 4th lines is invaluable and while he will command a raise he should not break the bank.

 JOAKIM ANDERSSON IS GONE!!!!!!

Darren Helm is a solid third liner, and a great penalty killer but personally, I would take Drew Miller over him.  Drew is a grinder.  I've always been a fan.  He doesn't score a lot of goals but he's always in there digging, and the ones that do go in are those dirty, blue-collar, working-man goals.  

I would shop Nyquist also, for the same reasons you mentioned.  The Wings need dependable scoring from their second line, and these days, he's just too afraid to shoot the puck.  He's consistently waiting for the perfect highlight-reel shot and he just ends up wasting time.  Tatar may also have gone through a slump or two, but at least he's firing pucks on net.  

[yave1964]

31 minutes ago, WingNut722 said:

Darren Helm is a solid third liner, and a great penalty killer but personally, I would take Drew Miller over him.  Drew is a grinder.  I've always been a fan.  He doesn't score a lot of goals but he's always in there digging, and the ones that do go in are those dirty, blue-collar, working-man goals.

I would shop Nyquist also, for the same reasons you mentioned.  The Wings need dependable scoring from their second line, and these days, he's just too afraid to shoot the puck.  He's consistently waiting for the perfect highlight-reel shot and he just ends up wasting time.  Tatar may also have gone through a slump or two, but at least he's firing pucks on net.

The advantage that Helm has over Miller is the ability to play up and down the lines and wing or center whereas Miller is much more of a specialist, a fourth line grinder like Maltby who only plays wing. I compare the two of them to Maltby (miller) and Draper (Helm). Of the two I would like to keep both but that is not how it works in the cap world.

  Don't get me wrong, I like Nyquist but you are right, he looks for the perfect shot, more of a highlight reel player while Tatar is a mucker. He goes into corners, fights for pucks, follows his shot, is not afraid to get dirty. Nyquist is much more of a perimeter player.

 My all time favorite Nyquist play was overtime last year against the Senators where he literally held the puck for 30 seconds against the Sens in overtime until he fired in the game winner, it epitomizes all that he does right, in open spaces there are few better. In a crowd though he gets shoved around.

[SpikeDDS]

TOTALLY agree about Tats vs. Nyquist. It will surprise me none if we keep Nyke and he is an insignificant factor in the playoffs. IMHO, Tats should be untouchable for now, short of a ridiculous offer for him.

 

Serious question: Why does it seem so dang difficult to try to teach some of these players to SHOOT THE DANG PUCK??!! <end rant>

 

I like Darren Helm. All I can say is that after this season, he will be missed. I just don't see how we can afford him without dismantling somehow. He seems to be upping his game, and if he continues to do so for the rest of this season, it will increase his asking price as a free agent. I just don't see us realistically meeting his demand. And when you couple that with Larkin and soon-to-be-AA's speedy skill sets, we don't necessarily need what he does as much, particularly if AA can be set up as a PK guy resembling Helm. For the money, I go with the young guys, but I can't say I won't be sorry to see Helm go.

 

And our definitions of "middle six scorer" might need tweaking, because we are talking about Tats and Nyke who looking at our lines on paper fit that description, but stat-wise are some of our top scorers, not our middle six. There's no question that Pav's still top line material. And so is Z when he is on. But when he is not... I'm in no way saying Z should be trade material. No. I'm just saying we've gotta be careful not to cut off our nose to spite our face when it comes to a "middle six scorer, because our middle six scorers own a pretty good percentage of our goals.

 

I sure am HOPING that Richards's game starts becoming more effective as the playoffs approach and come, because he was kind of player I was hoping that could help us score some of those uglier goals that guys like Nyke don't seem to want to score, and as a whole our recent Red Wings teams have been reluctant to score, except perhaps Abby. So far, I'm underwhelmed, but I'm hoping that as competition swells that his response mirrors what he has done historically.

 

As far as trade bait goes, I like the Yandle idea, price-dependent. What were you looking to give for him? You mentioned picks, but that doesn't help us with our cap issues. If we're gonna get someone, we're gonna have to move someone. Were you thinking Nyke straight up?

 

Schenn I'm less thrilled by, but it is because of his glaring weaknesses. You are suggesting we "cover them up," but I haven't seen that work too many times with the Red Wings, unless it was back in '02, when you could cover just about ANYTHING! ;-) I was a little concerned about Mike Green's weaknesses too, but I have been somewhat surprised that he hasn't been that much of a defensive liability, even as he has unimpressed with his offensive game. So maybe our system might help him minimize those weaknesses like it has done for Green, I don't know.

 

But you still have the problem with Schenn being you can't just give picks away like you suggested @yave1964. We are gonna have to lose a player to get even him. We have a cap problem. I really don't think Schenn is worth as much as a guy like Nyke overall.

 

I haven't checked, but how many more years do these guys have on their current deals?

[yave1964]

Yandle is an UFA at the end of the year and the Rangers are unhappy with his fit (they gave up Duclair for him as well) so they would like something back in return that fits their defense first system. We have a ton of top forwards in the pipeline but not d-men. Yandle is 29 and perhaps his best years are behind him but he is 6 years younger than Kronwall and would be a good fit.

  The cap is a HUGE issue, obviously we need to move bodies to make it work, Nyquist for an UFA d-man that the Rags do not intend upon resigning anyway is a very fair payment and then some, we may even be able to get a solid prospect back in return and the money would work.

  As for Schenn, he is a hard hitter with a high motor, IMHO I would take him over Abdelkader any day of the week. He is streaky but can score and is responsible in his own zone. A solid player who could play wing or center who is not afraid to play the body, an area that most of our forwards lack. Not quite a power forward because offensively he is not much more than a 20 goal a year guy but he is fearless. He is a RFA at the end of the year and young so we could retain him easily going forward. That is, of course depending upon the cap working.

[SpikeDDS]

@yave1964 Like I said, knowing the deals in place makes all the difference.

 

I like Schenn better in this case. I think our glaring shortcoming in the playoffs is a mucking offensive net-front presence who can score the dirty ones. The guy who can score when there's little space. He fits the bill, and with the RFA allowing us to match, I like that better.

 

Although the prospect plus Yandle for Nyke could be intriguing, especially if it was a decent defensive prospect. We just gotta remember that by dumping Nyke, we are losing 10% of our goal production, and considering Larkin is leading with 12.4% of it, and the next-highest player after Nyke is only at 7.4%, hesitation (at least) is in order.

 

I forgot what the stat was on the percentage of goals Larkin has pointed on, but it was high (28% maybe?). But his goal percentage was only 12.4% Surprised me. Nike's behind him, but not TOO far behind him.