Commander Clueless

(Steps on soapbox...)

 

 

I guess I'm the only person in this thread that thinks I should get what I pay for. 

 

Would you pay $100,000 for a Hyundai Accent when everyone else is paying $15,000?

 

Would you pay $25 for a cab ride if the bus arrived sooner and got you to your destination faster?

 

Would you pay $100 for a meal if they served you McDonalds fries and McNuggets? (And made you fill your own drinks.)

 

Would you pay $350 to watch Phil Kessel?

 

 

 

(Has tantrum, falls off soapbox, takes ball, goes home.)  

That really depends on how many McNuggets I'm getting. 

@J0e Th0rnton

True, hard choices will need to be made. The inevitable loss of a depth will hurt them, no doubt...but that's the point of the Cap, in a way - to even the tables a little.

The Blackhawks have good prospects, too. 

Time will tell, I guess.

Maybe, but what you are describing is sort of the point (well, secondary point, after saving money).

The league wants more parity, not Chicago winning it every other year (which is happening regardless).

Chicago will still be a great team after their moves this summer.

Death to dynasties.

I actually believed this story.

Right up until they had Steve Simmons quoted as saying something nice.

Then I knew: something was not right.

I'm not 100% clear on the rules of reincarnation, but I thought you had to be dead in order to be reincarnated?

Plus, with Mike Richards' dirty partying habits, I'm 95% sure he'll be coming back as a dung beetle.

This guy....

 

 

..yeah i know i threw up too......

Good Lo...

I'm not even a Flyers fan, but right now I feel like if I had one run in a time machine, I would go back in time and stop you from posting this.

Well, maybe if I had two chances. The first run would certainly be to go back and ensure Daniel Alfredsson has a solid career. In golf.

@Commander Clueless

 

 Shouldn't Gardiner and his shiny new contract play with someone who can play D? Cause he's not very good at it either. Don't get me wrong he oozes potential offensively, but I'd pair him with Robidas I think.

What, and have the Leafs actually play defense? Are you insane?

SOMEone's got to play with Franson, and it's probably going to be one of the young guys. I don't particularly want Rielly with someone who can't play defense either.

Like I said, I was really hoping to have someone more defensively oriented in Franson's spot. I feel like the kids need that sheltering.

I just took a stab, really.

Well, it took me a while Joe, but I am here as summoned. Time for some Maple Leafs action:

1. Dion Phaneuf

- Yes, Dion Phaneuf. The big goof is staying with the big blue. Easily the best defenseman with the Maple Leaf crest on his chest this side of anything to do with Team Canada, he's a two-way guy. Eats minutes like he should eat mammoth meat and skates like a rhino - fast in a straight line, not so great side to side. At times he looks like legit #1 calibre, and others he looks like a neanderthal with the mentality of a six year old girl throwing a temper tantrum. Leafs fans will tell you he's great, other fans will tell you he's hot garbage, and, as usual, the actual truth will tell you it's somewhere in the middle.

Price Tag: $7 mil

Worth It? I would have said no, but after this year's free agent signings, I'm actually starting to wonder if Nonis isn't quite as crazy as I thought. I'll go with a solid "not great".

2. Stephane Robidas

- The new old man on the block. Guy can still play, if healthy. Likely not an ideal #2 guy, but a guy who should be able to eat minutes and give the Leafs some much needed experience on the back end. My overall knowledge of him is limited since I don't get to see all that many West games, but I'm happy to have him around.

Price Tag: $3 mil

Worth It? Yep, except for the whole "signed until 40" thing.

3. Jake Gardiner

- The kid is back with a shiny new contract. Consistency is the name of the game for young Jake, who plays like a premier puck mover for about a quarter of the season, and a struggling sophomore for the other 3/4ths. If he

can find his groove, the Leafs may have a gem here - at least on the offensive side of the game. Defensively his impressive speed gets him out of some sticky situations, but he has his work cut out for him.

Price Tag: $4 mil

Worth It? Really tough to say. He was signed long term, and partially for potential.

4. Morgan Rielly

- No longer the newest, shiniest toy in the Leafs' toybox, Morgan is running out of free pass time with Leafs Nation. This next season is up in the air. I rated him here because during his flashes of brilliance, the kid looked every bit the part of the potential #1 guy the Leafs so desperately need. However, like Gardiner, he's got no shortage of work to do on his game. His speed also makes up for a lot of his mistakes. Probable sophomore slump and inevitable fan disgruntling in 3...2...

Price Tag: $1.5ish...I think?

Worth It? Most definitely.

5. Roman Polak

- The scary newcomer with the Shanahype. This recently traded for backend patroller is just what King Brendan ordered, regardless of the slightly questionable cost of acquiring him. Like Robidas, I don't have a terribly vast amount of first hand witness to this guy's playing ability, but he sounds like he will be relied on to shut down other teams' best guys and clear the crease.

Price Tag: $3 mil, once you consider the retained salary.

Worth It? Not sure yet. Sure hope so.

6. Cody Franson

-Ah, Cody. Yes, Cody. Our favourite whipping boy, back again for another lashing. The guy went from looking like a Top 4 defenseman in a shortened season, to a guy who couldn't spell deefnse. Puts up points, but hopefully will remain on the bottom pairing where he is best suited. Skates like molasses, but is big and physical. Also very good at holding the point on the powerplay.

Price Tag: $2.3 mil

Worth It? Ehhhh...I guess. I'd prefer that money was spent on a guy to help the Leafs' defensive woes.

7. Stetter Perberg (Stuart Percy/Petter Granberg)

- The rookies. Percy, the left handed two-way guy, and Granberg, the right handed defensive guy. Either or both could see time on the Leafs this season, but any projections on these guys would be pure hopeful speculation. Both looked pretty darn good with the Marlies.

Price Tag: Nothing, unless they come up.

Worth It? Prospects be great.

My stab at pairings:

Phaneuf-Robidas

Rielly-Polak

Gardiner-Franson

Grancy

Sort of like the Leafs' version of Scott Hartnell then?

Yes except not relied on to score.

The Maple Leafs: Pissing everybody off for no discernable reason and trolling their fans since 1967, when they were last relevant.

Trollonto Maple Leafs, as it were.

For better or worse (sometimes both at the same time) I would say Phaneuf. With Kessel moving up.

Perhaps, but the character that best exemplifies the Leafs is probably Leo Komarov.

Annoys everybody, likes to make goofy faces and is an overall jokester. Lacks top end talent.

But dang if he isn't entertaining.

I dunno. Edmonton seems a worse situation than Toronto. So does Winnipeg haha

I still think Toronto should never have turned down Bowman's offer to become president.

I agree with you re: Bowman.

As does everybody who ever liked the Leafs. Oh, except the people in charge...although whether or not they actually like the Leafs is up in the air.

Edmonton, maybe, but one has to think they'll put all their talent together eventually...won't they?

Winnipeg with decent goaltending is probably a playoff team. Well, stastically it looks like they would have been this past season, at any rate.

The Leafs..well, who friggin' knows? They could be a playoff team or they could be bottom 5 and I wouldn't be surprised, to be perfectly honest with you.

Anydangwho, regarding the Sharks...do they really need a "rebuild"? I mean Pavelski and Vlasic aren't old, Couture and Hertl are fantastic, Braun and Stalock look awesome....if they do go rebuild, I don't think they'll be at it very long.

But it does seem like time to consider passing the torch from Big Joe and Patty M to the next generation.

The other day, my leaf friend was bashing my Chicago hawks friend over the Kane/Toews contracts, and about the Sharks not trading Thornton/Marleau. Telling him how screwed they were and how sucky the Sharks were, and overall just insulting the Hawks and Sharks.

 

This is a guy that constantly bashes is own team, particularly Phaneuf and the fact that they have no number 1 center for Kessel.

 

My hawks friend simply stated "Would you rather have Toews/Kane for 21 million? Or Kessel/Phaneuf/Clarkson for 20.3 million?". Kinda made him sputter. I of course mentioned that Thornton/Marleau/Pavelski/Couture only cost 26 million and all are number 1 center caliber.

 

He got grumpy

Exactly.

See? There's always a "could be worse" scenario.

Unless you are, in fact, the Leafs. We have continuously degrading mental stability to look forward to. And that's just the bright side!

...although, to be fair, those Kane/Toews contracts are still pretty nutso.

More on topic, though, I seriously doubt Hannan will block any of the young guys. No offense, Scott.....

The sharks have a solid core of players, but did nothing to really improve

There there buddy.

If it makes you feel better, the Leafs are in the exact same boat.

Except without the "solid core of players" part.

Wait, actual hockey is happening at the Leafs prospect camp? I thought you actually needed to have prospects for that to happen.

Pretty sure the Leaf "prospect camp" is just a cover for other, slightly shadier activities.

Finn is promising, but needs to work on his skating. Hopefully Nylander can become something good. The Leafs could really use some hope, or at least some sort of distraction from the cataclysmic levels of suckage.

...more ice girls?

So Holland may have just added insult to trainwreck with the Cleary signing...

Apparently he's getting a raise? Word is $1.5 million plus $1 million in bonuses.

This is just bizarre to me.

I mean, I understand them not doing so well in free agency so they need to improve the team internally, but why bring back guys like Quincey and Cleary? And not at all for cheap? I mean, if they were dirt cheap I could understand it for "veteran leadership" or something, maybe?

@J0e Th0rnton  I gained a lot of respect for Georges though this process. His interview with TSN was priceless. Just told the truth, no politictiaclly correct garbage....just the plain honest to God's truth. Why wouldn't you take a trade to Toronto..."I respect the rivilariy, I've been with Montreal for years, I could never imagine myself putting on the enemies jersey like that".....LOL! Why did you take the trade to Buffalo "...I gave the Habs a list of 10 teams, no one from those 10 bit, I was asked to submit more teams....Buffalo was on the second list and wham...they made the move".....gotta love the honesty there!!

Are we sure his reasoning for not accepting the trade to Toronto was pure truth? I got the impression he was letting our feelings down easy.

Wow. Huge contracts.

I guess that's the price on today's market, though. I will say I thought the Leafs' signing of Kessel for $8 million was pretty expensive...now though, I may have to re-consider that opinion.

In the meantime, Chicago did secure their two best players long term...so there is that.

I can't imagine Chicago's depth can hold out when those contracts kick in.

What about Jeff Petry? Local boy that's an RFA.

Any thoughts?

Like we were discussing a bit earlier in the chat, he just signed for 1 year and $3 mil I believe.

Not that that prevents him from being traded, as you mentioned. Just wanted to mention the RFA status.

I think Petry gets overrated a lot by Edmonton, but he's not a bad option. There were rumours circulating earlier that the Oilers were considering trading him, but those were, of course, just rumours.

Myers is "available" as in "if you want to pay a King's Ransom for Myers" available.

 

He's a young, developing leader on a squad that is going young and is signed for five more years at $5.5M. In a league where apparently Andrew MacDonald (two years older, 45 fewer points in 4 fewer regular season games) is "worth" $5M a year, that's a bargain of bargains for the Sabres.

 

What's the "upside" for Buffalo to deal him? Of course, for the "right deal" (first rounder, top prospect, plus... plus?) anyone is movable.

Exactly.

The Wings are no doubt heavily interested in this guy, as I'm sure many teams are. Thing is, the Wings actually have the young assets that showed themselves last year to be able to pull this off. Unfortunately for Detroit, I wouldn't be surprised if the Sabres were asking a minimum of two of the Tatar/Nyquist/Jurco/Smith types. Maybe more.

It ain't gunna be cheap, that's for sure.

John Scott

 

Yeah sorry about that. It seems Kessel's impression of Paul Bunyan scared the big guy out West.

He's sick of the dirty antics in the East, so he's off to bring his message of peace, love, child hugging, and the spirit of Christmas to the mighty West.

@jammer2 I too would trade Kadri/Gardiner in a package for a #1 centre, but I'm not optimistic about them being able to find a dance partner. They are at a premium, after all.

I wouldn't trade Kadri for just anything because the guy has major skill, but I actually think the Leafs could put together a halfway decent team if they could get that illusive #1 guy down the middle.

@jammer2 I agree, Stastny was the big name that could potentially have been the centre the Leafs were looking for. However, while $7 million is a good chunk of change, the 4 year term to me suggests that he was looking to go to a cup contender and was willing to accomodate a shorter term to do so.

Not that the Leafs aren't a contender, I mean look at their team! They're just...you know....the Leafs.

But anyway, I don't think Lecavalier is a fit for the Leafs, and I don't think Lecavalier would want to go to Toronto anyway. I'm actually surprised he wound up in Philly...always struck me as the "avoid the media/pressure" type of guy.

I have read several articles about a Myers trade. It seems the steaks are too high. I’m hear Buffalo want one of the following: Nyqusit, Jurco or Tatar. After the Legwand trade I’m not so sure I’d like to see another good young leave. Now if they want Quincey and a pick I’m for it.

There's a very good chance Buffalo won't let Myers go without a price that the Wings will not like. At all.

The Sabres are still high on him I think.

To me, the trade hinges on how desperate Holland is to make a move for the back end. Since it's Holland, I'm thinking he won't be desperate at all.

I feel like calling Kronwall a #3 defenseman is a bit harsh, yave. He's definitely top pairing IMO.

But he needs help in the form of another top pairing guy.

Quincey....ouch. I know it's borderline sacrilege for a Leafs fan to like the Wings, but I do and....Quincey? That one hurt me, and it's not even my primary team!

Such a let down.

I don't know what it is about the Wings (and the Leafs too apparently), but attracting the free agents seems to be a problem these days...

Still I'm sure the Wings have a prospect or two they can pull out of their asses and turn into a #1 defenseman, no?

You know, Kenny Holland has done a great job for the Wings over the years, but I feel like fresh blood is needed in Wings management. You can't really complain about the playoff situation, but it feels like the Wings are spinning their tires a bit. I hope I'm wrong.

       

 

HEY LOOK...new emoticons.

Carry on.....

Most insightful post in the thread thus far.

Whole lotta meh left. Best July 1st in recent memory!

Still, if signing Tallinder meant the Leafs could move Franson....count me in on the "interested" list. Franson's not without his skillset, but I'd trade his offense for a Leafs team that actually knows how to play outside of the rush in a second.

While it's true the Leafs are desperate for a centre, I don't think they are Vinny Lecavalier desperate. They really need a #1 centre, as Bozak/Kadri could fill the 2nd and 3rd line roles effectively I think.

Plus, the Leafs haven't had a whole lot of luck attracting trade targets with NMCs lately. No idea why. The media is fair, and the fans are the picture of mental stabilit...SCREW YOU GORGES!!!!

While they are desperate for a center, Toronto has really focused on their speed/grit the past 2-3 years....

 

Not sure if Vinny would match either of those terms :-p

This is a good point. The Leafs team is built on speed, and the bottom six is (hopefully) being rebuilt into a gritty, hard working group. I don't see a fit.

  Unless a trade happens, the Leafs 1-2 punch will be Bozek and Kadri. The recently signed Santorelli will eat up most of the minutes behind those two. Santoreilli scored 18 times in only 49 games and is very good defensively. There is no way VLC would be interesting to the Leafs, Santorelli is cheaper, younger, faster, hits people and almost outscored Vinnie in under 50 games. Bad fit IMHO.

Agreed, the fit is bad. The Leafs also have young Peter Holland in the mix (who had a decent but not great showing for the Leafs last year) and signed Petri Kontiola, who could slot in anywhere in the lineup depending on what kind of showing he has. We'll see, but I'm guessing 3rd/4th line depending on which of Kontiola/Holland/Santorelli is switched to the wing.

In short, Lecavalier is no longer a #1 centre. The Leafs have decent depth players down the middle, but really, really need that #1 guy.