Old School Hockey

I kind of mean this in a sympathetic way rather than an insult, but it seems that what I'm saying (and jammer seems to be building off of) is so foreign to you that you don't seem to even know what is being said.  Unlike hf, fc, and TFG (who debated the merits--or lack of--of what was being said), you have yet to actually respond to what was said but instead have responded either completely missing the point or telling people what generation they're in (incorrectly) as if it was even relevant or negatively comparing them Lucic.  Even the post to jammer wasn't remotely relevant to what he said.  I've seen you debate elsewhere so I know you're not that way typically, so is it just that the concept is so foreign to you that you're struggling to even get your mind around it?  Are you capable of debating the subject or are we going to sling mud?

 

If we're just slinging mud, I'll let you win and whine to a reporter about it.

Here is one question for you? Have you played any high level sports?

This time honored tradition is one thing that has ALWAYS separated hockey from all other sports! What Lucic did is what we try to teach our 8 year olds not to do! RESPECT is something not in your and most of today's players vocabulary. That's why there's soooooooo many senseless injuries in today's game. No RESPECT!

Next thing you'll be saying/hoping for is the WWE style after the match brawl!

Bottom line! He was wrong it was and he is stupid for pulling that move.

But opinions are like a-holes! But yours stinks and mine doesn't because I just got out of the shower!

@ruxpin  I think that you are on to something here. Kids have this handshake thing at the end of a series drilled into them at a very early age. There is no higher moral ground here, just players going through the motions cause it the socially acceptable thing to do. I'll compare it to people saying "bless you" after somebody sneezes, people don't say it because they mean it or they really hope the person needs help from the almighty to stay healthy....it's an automatic response that is the "socially acceptable" thing to do. Perhaps some of the players were raised correctly, and they truly value good sportsmanship, but for the most part, I believe you were really on to something.

Lucic had 3 choices!

1. Go through the line and act like a man

2. Don't even get in line

3. Go through the line and act like a F-ing moron

He took 3 which makes an even bigger POS.

I completely disagree about the 99.9% thing.

I challenge you to watch a handshake line and watch the body language and expression of the *majority* of the players. Most are doing it in rote fashion to get it done and over with. Several players occasionally stop for a moment and speak in a meaningful way with a couple on the opposing team, but largely it's "touch glove, touch glove, touch glove" and "hurry up and get done with this so we can celebrate" (if they won) or "get the hell off the ice" if they lost.

I'm not sure why you're taking this so personally, but...

I think you have an extraordinarily romantic view of it that really isn't born out by the reality of it. Seriously, watch the lines. The majority are doing it for habit/tradition and nothing more, nothing less. It's a lot more real when it's personal and out of one's own will and not because there's a fricken line or because peer pressure/tradition demands it. The spontaneity of the Kings thing was a lot more real and meaningful. Two guys from opposite teams seeking each other out on a football field is as well.

I take it personally because I played the game! I understand what's going on.

As the old saying goes!!!!!

Act like you've been there!

I was born in 1968, making me soon to be 46. Is that the "me" generation?

Whatever, it's a crap description. I'm all for sportsmanship. I maintain that a trite, fake, tradition where the players themselves largely go through it solely for the sake of going through it is not sportsmanship. It's tradition for the sake of tradition. There's nothing wrong with it, but there's also no practical or high merit point to it.

Again, players want to mill around on the playing surface like they do in other sports and congratulate each other in a MEANINGFUL way, all power to them and I applaud that. 40 people going through a line where probably 60-70% don't give a crap about the exercise and are doing it solely on the way to something else doesn't impress me in the slightest. It has nothing whatsoever to do with "ME" and is quite the opposite.

Saying "have it actually mean something" and cut the symbolic fake crap isn't "ME" at all.

YOU and Lucic are a VERY small minority. And the other 99.9% are the majority.

It used to be tradition to own other people and make them work for free. Tradition for the sake of tradition when that tradition is absurd is not a good idea. So it's not really that simple.

It's a dumb tradition that's as fake as fake can get. Get rid of it.

And, by the way, it's comical reading about tradition from someone who likes the shootout travesty.

You're part of the ME generation and it shows!

I know you'll all hate me, but I'm not just trying to be contrarian or smarmy.

First, I hate the handshake thing to begin with. I think it's the dumbest damn tradition in all of sports. Dumber than the shootout. You don't see it in any other sport. That fact doesn't make it special in hockey. That fact means that the other sports know it's dumber than ****. This isn't AYSO and it's not little league. This is grown men playing their heart out for their dream or for dollar or whatever. They just lost a grueling 7 game series. The winner has to put off celebrating to go through an utterly stupid handshake line so that the loser can be forced to skate through it to say "thank you for kicking our ass." This isn't about good sportsmanship. The whole exercise is as fake as it gets and is intellectually insulting. Fake and stupid is NOT good sportsmanship.

What's good sportsmanship is in the NFL and college football, when the game is over the teams often congregate on the field and SPONTANEOUSLY congratulate whomever they want or don't participate if they don't feel like it. THAT is sportsmanship. Not the goofy fake crap the NHL forces upon its players. I thought maybe I was alone in this and just an evil smarmy bastard, but Brad Parks, Phil Espisito, and Glenn Healy all said pretty much exactly the same thing yesterday on NHL radio. I tell you, if I were playing I would definitely wait until I was on the winning side to do it (so I wouldn't look like a sore loser), but I would avoid the handshake altogether; explain it when asked; and then NEVER participate in the damn thing again. It's ridiculous, IMO.

Now, as to the Lucic thing. I have absolutely no problem with it. None whatsoever. The guy just lost a 7 game series his team should have won. They were squarely beaten and they squarely played poorly, but the point is they were expected to win. So he hates the Canadiens to begin with and now just finished such a series. He leaves his calling card for next year with "Yeah, I'm going to kill you next year." Clearly, he doesn't literally mean he's going to kill someone. People really need to get real. He means, "I'm going to get you year next year and the outcome will be different." Who cares? Nothing whatsoever wrong with this from where I sit. And a hell of a lot more a real human and sportsman thing than "Thanks for whipping us. Good luck." Screw that.

The problem is that if Dale Weise wasn't such a little puss, he simply says "Yeah, well, I'll be here" or "Okay, when I'm done playing for the Cup, I'll be ready" or something and moves on. You don't nurse your ovaries and go to the press with it. THAT was the unsportsmanlike part of this. Take care of your own business and be a man. Don't run to Vogue Magazine and air your grievance. Be a hockey player, not a pansy.

Lucic was no big deal until sissy boy went to reporters. Keep it on the ice.

And please, stop the stupid silly handshake crap. Let them mull around after the game and if some of them spontaneously congratulate or console each other as men, then great. The fake stuff is just that: fake.

Major failure in understanding time honored tradition!

I know you'll all hate me, but I'm not just trying to be contrarian or smarmy.

First, I hate the handshake thing to begin with. I think it's the dumbest damn tradition in all of sports. Dumber than the shootout. You don't see it in any other sport. That fact doesn't make it special in hockey. That fact means that the other sports know it's dumber than ****. This isn't AYSO and it's not little league. This is grown men playing their heart out for their dream or for dollar or whatever. They just lost a grueling 7 game series. The winner has to put off celebrating to go through an utterly stupid handshake line so that the loser can be forced to skate through it to say "thank you for kicking our ass." This isn't about good sportsmanship. The whole exercise is as fake as it gets and is intellectually insulting. Fake and stupid is NOT good sportsmanship.

What's good sportsmanship is in the NFL and college football, when the game is over the teams often congregate on the field and SPONTANEOUSLY congratulate whomever they want or don't participate if they don't feel like it. THAT is sportsmanship. Not the goofy fake crap the NHL forces upon its players. I thought maybe I was alone in this and just an evil smarmy bastard, but Brad Parks, Phil Espisito, and Glenn Healy all said pretty much exactly the same thing yesterday on NHL radio. I tell you, if I were playing I would definitely wait until I was on the winning side to do it (so I wouldn't look like a sore loser), but I would avoid the handshake altogether; explain it when asked; and then NEVER participate in the damn thing again. It's ridiculous, IMO.

Now, as to the Lucic thing. I have absolutely no problem with it. None whatsoever. The guy just lost a 7 game series his team should have won. They were squarely beaten and they squarely played poorly, but the point is they were expected to win. So he hates the Canadiens to begin with and now just finished such a series. He leaves his calling card for next year with "Yeah, I'm going to kill you next year." Clearly, he doesn't literally mean he's going to kill someone. People really need to get real. He means, "I'm going to get you year next year and the outcome will be different." Who cares? Nothing whatsoever wrong with this from where I sit. And a hell of a lot more a real human and sportsman thing than "Thanks for whipping us. Good luck." Screw that.

The problem is that if Dale Weise wasn't such a little puss, he simply says "Yeah, well, I'll be here" or "Okay, when I'm done playing for the Cup, I'll be ready" or something and moves on. You don't nurse your ovaries and go to the press with it. THAT was the unsportsmanlike part of this. Take care of your own business and be a man. Don't run to Vogue Magazine and air your grievance. Be a hockey player, not a pansy.

Lucic was no big deal until sissy boy went to reporters. Keep it on the ice.

And please, stop the stupid silly handshake crap. Let them mull around after the game and if some of them spontaneously congratulate or console each other as men, then great. The fake stuff is just that: fake.

Major failure in understanding time honored tradition!

@Vanflyer

That's a breath of fresh air over what you see from most of those brown-nosed parasitic ass-kissin' hand in pocket suckup leaches. Thanks.

Lucic should have left the building with time on the clock. He would have a better image today for it. Talk about humiliating yourself.

I've seen many people 10000x better than Lucic be gracious in defeat!

Well now we can go to hockey night in Canada and have Don Cherry kiss his ass! I was indifferent on the man until this year's playoffs. Please check to see if the referees were looking and then smack Danny Dekeyer in the balls and now this shows me one thing he's no better than Street thug playing in the NBA!

His post game interview (Lucic) proved what a punk he is. He had the balls to call Weise baby!

Watch the video of the handshake! You don't have to hear what he says! Watch the player reactions to what he says and does! He's a moron.

This is what has separated hockey from the other sports! The thug dipshit it's all about me attitude that is in the other sports has to place in hockey!

No sarcasm intended!

He showed tonight he is a classless idiot. If you don't want congratulate your opponent stay out of the handshake line.

Classless sore LOSER!

Bertuzzi pled guilty to get it over with.He has attempted to apologize to Moore who refused it.He truly seems contrite and has accepted the vilification with as much grace as possible.Intent has nothing to do with nothing. The result of his attack upon Moore is what matters. Nothing more nor less. The result, period.Lets forget hockey, look at it from outside of the box.A man annoys a company, who sends one of their best employees to voice his displeasure to the man. It ends in fisticuffs', whether intended or not the first man winds up with a life altering injury. The man who injured him pleads guilty to the assault.Of course the injured man is going to sue, and get absolutely as much as he can, even more than he deserves if his lawyer is good enough.Nobody says Moore is a saint or that his character is unblemished, but what he is plain and simple, especially with Bert accepting the terms of the assault conviction is the victim. It is not a matter of how but of how much now. I have read several lawyers critical of Bertuzzi's attorneys for allowing him to plead guilty before the end of the civil suit, essentially he coughed up the puck in his own end and gave it to Moore. Focusing on the ridiculous that Moore was a poor player is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with it, period. Attempting to say bodies landing on top of Moore were the issue is irrelevant. Bertuzzi pled guilty to the assault, making that argument moot. You may believe it in your heart of hearts, good for you, but in the court of law none of that matters anymore. Guilt has been established, now it is simply determining compensatory damages.And back to my original point, this should have been dealt with a long time ago by Bertuzzi, by the Canucks, by Crawford and by the league. Pay, overpay get it over with and move on. Instead the league closed ranks and drug their feet to an absurd degree, but now it is time to pay the piper.I am a Wings fan of no small degree, Bert has been fun to watch but I would have rather he played for someone else. He deserves to have his chance to play and earn a living but I wish he had done it in Florida or Phoenix or somewhere else.

My bigger point I noted long ago this is actually NHLPA vs NHLPA. It's not like NHL did any of this.

All NHLPA need to take responsibility for their actions and stop looking at the NHL to stop their foolishness! There's absolutely no respect for each other! From Crosby to Lucic!

Where is this comparison from? Nobody accused Bertuzzi of manslaughter or homicide. But he wasn't punished equivalent to his offense either. In fact, a Canadian district attorney gave him a plea agreement without the victim or his attorney present, and the "judge refused" to postpone the hearing to allow him to get there. Who the hell does that?? A Vancouver judge hearing a case on a Vancouver hockey player, that's who.

So if Moore gets 20 or 30 million, I say God bless him.

Point is the intent gets punished much more severely. i.e McSorley and Simon should have been punished more severely than (attempted murder) vs Bertuzzi (manslaughter).

Again the while point in the real non sports world is a guy who attempts murder but by luck doesn't actually kill them gets punished more severely than guy with no intent accidental kills someone.

Man this is tough? Who gets a worse sentence? A man who comimits manslaughter or a man commits Assault in the first degree? Knowing of course manslaughter includes death and assault in the first degree did NOT end in death.

Or manslaughter vs attempted murder?

You're supporting @yave1964 's and my side of the argument now?  Because regardless of intent, you will be held responsible for your actions.  Again intent matters but does not exonerate your actions, and punishment will be based upon the results of said actions.  Agreed thank you.   LOL   So we agree Bertuzzi had bad intentions, though maybe not as severe as the result.  Therefore he IS responsible, and his penalty is about to be determined in a civil court.  The criminal courts went WAY to easy on him, and it's one rare instance where I think a court in the US would be harsher than a court in Canada.  Bertuzzi was given too much leniency simply because he's a hockey player.

Man this is tough? Who gets a worse sentence? A man who comimits manslaughter or a man commits Assault in the first degree? Knowing of course manslaughter includes death and assault in the first degree did NOT end in death.

Intent leads to criminalization, but result determines severity of punishment. Bertuzzi intended to hurt Moore, perhaps not as severely as the actual result. In that he may have only wanted to give Moore a concussion.

Problem is he did much more. The severity of injury becomes the issue. I.e. I only intended to run a stop sign, but because in doing so I severely hurt another driver when I hit his car, I am now responsible for any aftermath and injuries that resulted from my lesser intent.

As for Richard, I read your comment. But the linesman didnt suffer a life altering injury. And Richard was punished for it.

Why are different catagoires of murder?

So hitting someone in the head with a stick is worse than riding someone's spine and skull into the ice how?  I see them as very equal efforts.  The injuries in fact make the spine ride a worse attack if you think about it.  The spine into the ice thing had far worse repercussions wouldn't you agree?  Bertuzzi was allowed to carry on his career as well as any other goon in the league.

Man O f-Ing alive! Take off the blinders! Who exactly had a worse INTENT! INTENT INTENT!!!!!!!!

What was McSorley and Simon INTENT with a full two handed swing at a guys head? What happened with Bertuzzi/Moore was very bad result but you're being blind if you think Bertuzzi INTENDED the outcome!

And I love how you ignored what Rocket Richard did. He sucker punch mother F-ing linesman in the nose. Not once but twice after two handing a player. Wonder what his INTENT was?

Where does it say he didn't go to any agreed upon doctors?? Joe said the same thing yet I can find no mention of that, even in the NHL defense of the incident. More blogger hype perhaps? And any lawyer worth salt will tell you you do NOT go to the defendant's appointed doctor anyway, even if that were true (which is apparently is NOT). You go to independent medical professionals... which is what Moore has done... repeatedly. The NHL's own insurance companies say so.

And you can add to your "would have killed him" list the Bertuzzi hit on Moore. The way he rode his head into the ice, one of those vertebrae goes sideways, and you have a death on the ice just the same as any of the hits you mentioned. As you said... "Only luck stopped from killing someone with those hits!" Bertuzzi included.

Yet all I mentioned or able to carry on a career without the persecution that we've seen with this case. Imagine the NHL without Rocket Richard?

I'm sorry if you can't see you that McSorley and Simon were by far worse incidents that had very lucky outcomes.

You do not sue for what you are making at the time, you sue for the loss of what you could POTENTIALLY make.  Moore was most likely a career third or fourth liner in the NHL, either with the AVs or elsewhere, but what if he'd had a Hartnell type season and scored 20+ one year on Forsberg's wing or Sakic's due to an injury.  Then some other team comes in and gives a large offer, ridiculous money, for the guy who returns to his 5-10 goal output.  Like it's never happened...   Will he get the full $38 million?  Probably not... but if he gets half will everyone feel so slighted??  He deserves it.  

 

@yave1964 's point of responsibility is well stated.  Civil court is just about being "more likely than not" the cause of the injury.  51% likely.  Since Bertuzzi plead guilty in a criminal court, where "beyond a reasonable doubt" is the standard, Bertuzzi already lost the civil case, it's just a matter of for how much.  

 

 

In civil court, and even in criminal court, YES you consider the results.  It's the difference between simple assault and aggravated assault.  It's also the difference between a lot of the cases you've cited as "worse acts" and this one.  This one had a permanent lifelong change of life for the victim.  This would qualify as aggravated in most US courts, by the way.  A first degree felony with a standard sentencing range of around five years in prison.  Which tells you Bertuzzi's profession and involvement in the game mitigated his sentence down quite drastically, which I have no problem with.    

 

 

The only one saying he should have served time in jail here is me.  Again based on the end result, it's absolutely 100% fact.  You can have a differing opinion all you want, and I have no problem with it, but really if you took the attack he made onto a sidewalk between John Doe #1 and John Doe #2, it's a jail sentence.  I understand and love the sport of hockey, but I don't think it removes the standard of acting like a human being, and being responsible for the results of your actions when they permanently injure someone else.  

 

To both of you I would say that Moore's attorney's are 100% right to avoid the NHL doctors.  IF THAT IS IN FACT THE CASE.  I can find ZERO reference to that.  In fact, I see quite a lot inferring the opposite.  He saw NUMEROUS specialists, NUMEROUS neurosurgeons, the emergency room evaluation and his teams of specialists ALL AGREE on the injuries sustained.  The NHL's own comp insurance companies, both Hartford Life Insurance and Lloyd's of London have agreed after reviewing the medical records, reports, and Steve Moore himself,  that Moore sustained career ending injuries and that he deserves compensation for Permanent Total Disability Benefits.  Do you know how hard it is to get those insurance companies to admit that?  In fact, many medical professionals have stated that Moore has made a remarkable recovery considering his initial injuries, which only strengthens his case that he did all he could do to attain clearance to play again.  

 

I seriously think you guys have just let the rumors and hype stirring about this.  In fact I challenge anybody to show me proof or even an allegation beyond some Bertuzzi defender blogging it, that Moore was seen taking a neck brace off.  The sworn records indicate he wore it for nearly a year, as documented by doctors, therapists, neurosurgeons, spinal specialists, etc etc..   You guys have just fallen for the spin from the Bertuzzi side of the tracks.   Forget the "I've seen worse" until you've seen worse injuries as the result.  I HAVE seen worse injuries.  And I HAVE seen huge lawsuit settlements in court against people with far less responsibility or money than Bertuzzi has here.

My point still remains the same!!!!!

The players I listed had much more intent to injury than Bertuzzi did! End of story on that front. Shore, McSorley, Simon and Richard could have easily killed the men they hit. Only luck stopped from killing someone with those hits!

By not going to an agreed upon Doctor tells ME that there's something to hide! To quote a certain person (paraphrase): "those that don't want to disclose the truth have something to hide"

I think biggest problem with this and many other hits in the NHL is this!

The NHLPA is out there knocking each other's heads off and wants the NHL to take responsibility for its members actions.

Can't we see how absurd that is?

You address the result, plain and simple. End of argument.

If this is the rule? Many players would be out of the NHL for long periods of time!

And what do if in that hypothetical case of a player takes out another and said hurt player does not come (in the playoffs) and his team is eliminated? Does the guilty player not come back until next season?

And I was hoping you would address the list of offenders that I listed!

@J0e Th0rntonJoe the length of his career has NOTHING TO DO with the civil suit. Okay, a slight exaggeration, but not much.If a rich guy is injured/wronged by a poor man, does that mean that people shrug their shoulders and say well he cannot afford to pay for his slight upon the wealthier man so lets just let it go.If a poor man is wronged/injured by a rich man are career earnings of the poor man the end all be all of deciding how much the rich guy will pay in damages? no, of course not. It is a factor, but in a typical court of law only a small portion to be considered.So stop denigrating Moore as a minor player. It is irrelevant. Your making him sound worse than he was BTW but even if he could not stand on skates and was the worst player in the history of the game, it truly makes no difference.Forgetting the hockey part of the equation, he is a man who was assaulted by a man, a wealthy man who pled guilty to the assault that changed his life forever for the worst. Now it is time for the civil suit where the rich man will find out how much the assault that he pled guilty to is going to cost not only him but his employer who was directly involved. Moore as a mediocre player at best will have his career earnings used as a consideration in the case but it is not the end all be all that you seem to be making it. Your beating the drum for a small part of the equation expecting it to be the only thing under consideration when it is simply just a little piece of the pie. Stop beating on Moore and look at the big picture and you will see just how the situation will work out for the NHL and Bertuzzi.Length of career and expected career earnings are a consideration but only one, and no more important than anyone of a dozen or more to consider.

How about you address my argument. Do we punish the action or the result!

Just because what Scott Stevens did was within the rules at the time doesn't make it any less relevant! Every time he stepped to the ice his goal was to injure and/or intimidate the other players.

It is definitely a big point. But his supporters try to argue against it by saying "I would not let an NHLPA doctor near me if I were him either". The implications are obvious.

 

What really turned me from casual impartial to against Steve Moore was the dissertation his lawyer released in the late 2000's.

It read like a work of fiction trying to make him sound like a bonefied NHL star who would have made multi millions rather than what he was(A cup of coffee call up).

 

I have been looking for a copy of it because he took it down rather quickly (it got a lot of negative backlash and they released a reworded version), but it read somewhere along the lines of "After years of hard work, Steve not only made the NHL team, a team which won a cup just prior with superstars such as Sakic, Forsberg, Blake, Tanguay, Hejduk, but worked his way to first line duties of an NHL team that was league best with a star studded lineup that had just signed and added free agents Selanne and Kariya. Finally Steve was playing alongside players he idolized growing up, and as an equal. His dream of being an NHL superstar able to provide for his entire family after years of hard work had become a reality....."

 

etc etc

 

It even had a section that was worded to make it sound like player violence and his case in particular, was a large reason for the NHL lockout and missed hockey year.

 

It was a ridiculous dissertation with the obvious goal of trying to word it as if he was a shoe in NHL first line superstar with a long career worth multi millions. When in fact, he was just a 25 year old call up fill in, who would have never made the lineup if not for many injuries(including injuries to people they called up ahead of him). He was the pair of shoes at the back of the closet that you wore because a flood soaked your 5 other pairs. A piece of tape wrapped around a napkin because you could not find a band aid.

I've just grown very tired of the "Bertuzzi should NOT be playing and should be in jail" argument when much worse dirty plays have happened before and after the Bertuzzi/Moore incident go unnoticed (hypocritically) because the alleged injury didn't result!

Many refuse to acknowledge Moore was offered a contract. His legal team would not allow him to step anywhere a doctors office! That to me speaks volumes. Why not allow Moore to have a physical? I think we know that answer?

Now on to Bertuzzi. He committed an offense during a hockey game. He served his league determined suspension. For years I've heard punish action not the result. For years I've heard he (Bertuzzi) shouldn't be playing. Well folks Bertuzzi actions are by FAR not the most violent or ban worthy in the history of the NHL.

So let's look at some of the incidences that get swept under the rug when the Bertuzzi incident comes up.

Hunter vs Turgeon blind hit well after a goal scored

Suter vs Kariya cross check the neck of Kariya

Simon vs Hollweg two handed swing to a man head

MvSorley vs Brashear another slash to the head

Clarke vs Kharlamov a slash so hard it broke the guys ankle

Shore vs Bailey he came from behind and flipped Bailey smashing his head on to the ice

All of the Flyers of the 70's should still be serving time in jail

And the granddaddy of them all!

Rocket Richard vs Cliff Thompson! Never heard of Cliff Thompson? He was the f@@king linesman Richard attacked after he gave Hal Laycoe a viscous two hander to His back which followed a high stick to his face. Richard punched Thompson in the face twice.

All of the above were much worse than Bertuzzi vs Moore.

So we punish the action or the result? Think about some of the players that would have served some very long suspensions if not career ending suspensions.

Two bottom lines here. IMO Moore is NOT as hurt as his legal team wants YOU to believe. If so why not allow Moore to see a Doctor?

Secondly and more important. NHLPA to the NHL!

NHL what are you going to do to stop the NHLPA from bashing each other's brains in?

Yes I'm a Wings fan but this nothing to do with the Wings! This has to with the hypocrisy that many have when it comes to Bertuzzi vs Moore and previous (and some later) incidences on the ice. And oh where's Marc Crawford in all of this? That f@@king spline less weisel?

Ok jumping off of the soapbox!